Clerics aren't meant to indefinitely support a fight, they're meant to EXTEND the fights, increasing the chance for success. Personally I see them doing this just fine at the current state.
Patch Notes v499 - Server Maintenance at 2:00 PM PST on Tuesday! 4/1/2014
#126
Posted 08 April 2014 - 07:12 PM
#127
Posted 08 April 2014 - 07:15 PM
then if that's the case goodluck in finding a very patient cleric to extend raider wars..since a lot are using cloaked class
Edited by 3722121031200347517, 08 April 2014 - 07:15 PM.
#128
Posted 08 April 2014 - 07:24 PM
Exactly, I wish them good luck in finding a cleric to extend their few seconds war.then if that's the case goodluck in finding a very patient cleric to extend raider wars..since a lot are using cloaked class
#129
Posted 08 April 2014 - 08:50 PM
Perhaps taking a knight or two for the damage reductions and reflects w/ taunts should be more considered.
Or a few bourges for the reflect, + aspd w/ 10sec decloak CD's.
Throw a FS or two with sense enough to get the defense passives. Throw out some heals on those reflects and run around giggling.
Maybe a cannon bourge with the PVP Burn + decloak? I hear that raiders can only cloak/stealth so often, so once they burn those Cd's well they're stuck in the open.
Clerics with AoE sleep can be a bit annoying as well. Especially BC's with that block rate. Can be rather frustrating.
Though a mage with windwalker and mspd, super high accu just kinda voids the dodge of a raider. But then again those AoE stuns are probly usefull too. That PvP mana burn as well, completely destroys MP and cant cast a stealth on command.
Oh on Knights I forgot the dispell + stuns. Stripping buffs off couldn't possibly be a benefit?
Oh woops, I went on a tanget on how raiders could be countered. sorry. Maybe you're just not doing a good team?
#130
Posted 08 April 2014 - 09:47 PM
Maybe you should stop teaching us how to play. In case you have not noticed it yet, you are talking with some of the oldest players in ROSE. We know a thing or two about every job classes out there. We do not want any class to be overpower over other classes. All we need is a fair system, or are you telling me that you cannot survive with a fair system? If that is the case, say so.Perhaps taking a knight or two for the damage reductions and reflects w/ taunts should be more considered.
Or a few bourges for the reflect, + aspd w/ 10sec decloak CD's.
Throw a FS or two with sense enough to get the defense passives. Throw out some heals on those reflects and run around giggling.
Maybe a cannon bourge with the PVP Burn + decloak? I hear that raiders can only cloak/stealth so often, so once they burn those Cd's well they're stuck in the open.
Clerics with AoE sleep can be a bit annoying as well. Especially BC's with that block rate. Can be rather frustrating.
Though a mage with windwalker and mspd, super high accu just kinda voids the dodge of a raider. But then again those AoE stuns are probly usefull too. That PvP mana burn as well, completely destroys MP and cant cast a stealth on command.
Oh on Knights I forgot the dispell + stuns. Stripping buffs off couldn't possibly be a benefit?
Oh woops, I went on a tanget on how raiders could be countered. sorry. Maybe you're just not doing a good team?
Edited by ChampPower, 08 April 2014 - 09:49 PM.
#131
Posted 08 April 2014 - 10:35 PM
when you join in cd, you get a random team and that's how you deal with it..play with what you have not what you needed unless you are too scared enough and you group with the classes you need then that's a sold out game...go tg! not cd if you do that
Edited by 3722121031200347517, 08 April 2014 - 10:46 PM.
#132
Posted 08 April 2014 - 11:04 PM
Maybe you should stop teaching us how to play. In case you have not noticed it yet, you are talking with some of the oldest players in ROSE. We know a thing or two about every job classes out there. We do not want any class to be overpower over other classes. All we need is a fair system, or are you telling me that you cannot survive with a fair system? If that is the case, say so.
If you know a thing or two about ROSE, why don't you start posting and acting like it, instead of some infantile child who didn't get the toy he wanted? Seriously. Your arguments are invalid, and you only extrapolate specific skills that fit into a very guided scenario in which you attempt to control the outcome with only a small sample event consisting of a few skills and occurrences. You try to weigh the scenario instead of taking it down to fundamentals and fact, then testing your theories on those foundations and factual pieces of data. If you did that, and provided the data and calculations, with their correlation to your hypothesis, then maybe you wouldn't sound like a raging child. Just a thought.
Edited by Feuer, 08 April 2014 - 11:05 PM.
#133
Posted 08 April 2014 - 11:43 PM
Maybe I assume too much for you. Maybe I should not expect you to know the meaning of the words, fair game. Your definition of war is everything have to be pre-conditioning for you to win. My definition of war is random, and everyone should have the equal chance to survive and win.If you know a thing or two about ROSE, why don't you start posting and acting like it, instead of some infantile child who didn't get the toy he wanted? Seriously. Your arguments are invalid, and you only extrapolate specific skills that fit into a very guided scenario in which you attempt to control the outcome with only a small sample event consisting of a few skills and occurrences. You try to weigh the scenario instead of taking it down to fundamentals and fact, then testing your theories on those foundations and factual pieces of data. If you did that, and provided the data and calculations, with their correlation to your hypothesis, then maybe you wouldn't sound like a raging child. Just a thought.
Your writing seems to suggest a scientific method, and you have accused me of acting like a raging child. you have the right to think that, but where are your data? Where are the facts that you have suggested? A week or two ago, Leonis supplied us with some data, and you disregarded those data when people had explained them. Ironic, isn't it?
Lastly, do not expect me to work for free. If you like to work for free, please do so.
Edited by ChampPower, 09 April 2014 - 12:04 AM.
#134
Posted 09 April 2014 - 12:20 AM
1: Yes, I am a volunteer, I enjoy doing it, and I do it for free as well.
2: When did I refute data Leonis posted? Just curious if you could quote me on that, cause 99% of the time, I don't refute data.
3: Allow me to give you a link shal I? Link where I posted the following ...
So sorry to say, I do actually post DATA. and only after subjecting my opinion to it, do I pursue the issue further.
4: Yes, you are like an infantile child, constantly making arguments or quips that are subjective and exclude any real facts that may damage your propositions or positions.
5: You state that my opinion on "war is preconditioning for me to win." Uhm, no, my opinion of war is it's pointless, manipulatable and random. Also, I don't indulge in wars, because it benefits me in no way at all. I do however play CD matches. And those, to a very SMALL degree, are preconditioned. They can only have a min-max player amount, the objectives are always the same, and everyone is limited to the same accesses as the others in the mode. So yes, you are correct in stating that "war is random", but you're also trying to push a system, that has ZERO value, and rewards absolutely nothing.
I would be inclined to say that clan wars in TG provide experience in PvP situations, however, they're so out of scope, and so un-regulated that you are not really gaining any EFFECTIVE knowledge when it comes to supported PvP systems like CD, AA or DP. You're only gaining knowledge on how to manipulate an un-restricted pvp environment. So, no, I don't believe in pre-conditioning a war to win, nor do I believe in pre-building a PvP match in 1v1 or 2v2 to win. MAtter of fact, I get rather annoyed, and refuse to fight people who try to place restrictions on 1v1's and 2v2's. Things like people saying "No stealth, Mute." or "I don't have self buffs, so don't use yours". People invest points into those, and sacrifice other active/passive skills to have access to them.
Pretty much to entirely recap, you absolutely know nothing about how I operate, test, provide feedback, pvp, theory craft, or observe, really anything. You are soo entirely consumed by your own stance, that you refuse to think objectively or critically both in favor and against your own opinion, which is why you will never advance or progress as a person who provides proper feedback or information. You'll always be single minded, opinionated, and irrational. But I don't have to do anything to prove it, you prove that yourself.
#135
Posted 09 April 2014 - 12:25 AM
I think, the main problem here is that oldest player of ROSE just miss their old cleric. When Cleric was tanky, when he could heal a whole team alone, when your team didn't have to look after you because they know that clerics could survive fine alone.
But then cleric has been nerfed because he was way too powerfull in every aspects of the class, and that shoudn't be the case because he is a support. He shouldn't be over-tanky (muse class heh), he shouldn't be able to heal the whole team alone and he has to be more focus on their main teammate (depends of the clerics, probably champ/mage?) to heal (at least in every mmo, a healer is not supposed to heal more than 4-5 mates very well, and i have played a bunch of mmo). The main problem remaining after the needed nerfs is that your team still ignore you most of the time, and it's not your fault if you cannot do your job or don't have fun in your CD because your team do not protect you.
#136
Posted 09 April 2014 - 12:45 AM
Mage is also very squishy, if you get pin down by mana burn over and over, it's not your fault, it's your teammates' fault.
Indeed. +1 It's always teamwork that comes into play in Leo's mind that convinces him of his changes.
Not true at all. If you ditch most of the unique skill and the int buff, your cleric can have both off-hand passive and the mana shield. However, even with the mana shield, dragon skin, and off hand passive, your cleric still die very quickly if the raider attack you. If the raider, mage, and xbow scout attack you at once, your cleric will die instantly regardless of what your cleric has and do.
Never a cleric dies instantly without healing himself nor having someone to heal in order to give that teammate the time and space to harass those attacking him. Raider, mage and xbow scout can gang on the cleric all they like, but if that cleric has another cleric with him and a mage or two helping while being focus healed, those raiders and xbow scouts of yours would be scratching their heads, and your other mage would've been taken out.
Yes, the full support cleric is too INVINCIBLE to the point that I have ditched the cleric class from war. Seriously, the term invincible does not apply to the cleric. It is weak and have no attack power to scare anyone. When the raider attack it, the cleric die. When the Mage attack it, it still dies. When xbow scout attack it, it dies even more. Every classes can kill the full a full support cleric. Is it sound INVINCIBLE to you? What we wants are just 3 simple things to make the cleric class playable, but the DEV Team has been refusing one way or another.
1. Halve the attack power and critical power of both raider and xbow scout.
2. Give 1k def back to the cleric, which the DEV Team previously took it away.
3. Increase the power of AoE purity by 1 more dispell from its current 2 dispell for unique purity.
If the DEV cannot give us these 3 simple things, the cleric class will continuously be ditched by most players.
The FS cleric is not invincible, and you contradicted yourself immediately afterwards. An FS cleric is not weak and yes, it doesn't have attack power. Why would a person choose to support others if he thinks he's all alone by himself? FS clerics are intended to support a team and prolong his teammates' lives. His teammates are his shield, his weapon to scare anyone away. A mage doesn't instantly kill a cleric, an xbow scout doesn't as well. Why do I see you hyping the xbow scout and katar raider so much?
Honestly, I've never played a CD seriously with ally cleric unprotected. Only a few number of people dared attack him while I'm still alive. Results? The cleric was able to support the team, I died a number of times when the cleric's heal and teammates' support were overcome, but nonetheless, the cleric was well protected.
The attack power and crit rating of the katar raider and xbow scout are good as they are. Nowhere near the champs' attack power, yet not as weak as that of aspd type bow scouts or clerics themselves.
The defense of the cleric is fine as it is. They only die too easily because their design is mostly ignored and are thus left unprotected. The reduced defense isn't much of a problem if your teammates protect you. And don't argue that I don't play a cleric that's why I don't know. I have always played my mage and kept the cleric well protected all the time, in return for him keeping my in the same protection.
The power of the AoE Purify is good as it is. No need to change.
When you judge how strong a full support cleric is, you don't talk about attack power ever, it's just not relevant at all.
A mage attack on a cleric is like chicken scratch, only thing that you should be worry of is the PvP mana burn usually drain 2.2K MP every 8 sec, but the thing is a mage can either be strong mana shield tank with no AOE damage output or a power house with no mana shield, you can't make a mage that have both.
And I don't know where you pull off that "xbow scout attack it, it dies even more" from.
1. Seeing katar raider is worth playing again makes people happy, but i don't agree it's OP.
Yes, either a strong mana shield tank with small damage output or a nuke with no mana shield. It just depends on one's choice. A power house mage attacks the cleric? Take him out fast. A mana shield mage attacks the cleric? No worries, mind the other mage first.
I also do not agree the katar raider is OP. It's fine as it is.
Perhaps taking a knight or two for the damage reductions and reflects w/ taunts should be more considered.
Or a few bourges for the reflect, + aspd w/ 10sec decloak CD's.
Throw a FS or two with sense enough to get the defense passives. Throw out some heals on those reflects and run around giggling.
Maybe a cannon bourge with the PVP Burn + decloak? I hear that raiders can only cloak/stealth so often, so once they burn those Cd's well they're stuck in the open.
Clerics with AoE sleep can be a bit annoying as well. Especially BC's with that block rate. Can be rather frustrating.
Though a mage with windwalker and mspd, super high accu just kinda voids the dodge of a raider. But then again those AoE stuns are probly usefull too. That PvP mana burn as well, completely destroys MP and cant cast a stealth on command.Oh on Knights I forgot the dispell + stuns. Stripping buffs off couldn't possibly be a benefit?
Oh woops, I went on a tanget on how raiders could be countered. sorry. Maybe you're just not doing a good team?
Agreed, katar raiders can easily be countered, it's just that only a few plays those that can, or that only a few realize how.
#137
Posted 09 April 2014 - 12:46 AM
yea nerf the cleric more clerics should die in 1 hit~~
happy people?
#138
Posted 09 April 2014 - 02:26 AM
Indeed. +1 It's always teamwork that comes into play in Leo's mind that convinces him of his changes.
Never a cleric dies instantly without healing himself nor having someone to heal in order to give that teammate the time and space to harass those attacking him. Raider, mage and xbow scout can gang on the cleric all they like, but if that cleric has another cleric with him and a mage or two helping while being focus healed, those raiders and xbow scouts of yours would be scratching their heads, and your other mage would've been taken out.
The FS cleric is not invincible, and you contradicted yourself immediately afterwards. An FS cleric is not weak and yes, it doesn't have attack power. Why would a person choose to support others if he thinks he's all alone by himself? FS clerics are intended to support a team and prolong his teammates' lives. His teammates are his shield, his weapon to scare anyone away. A mage doesn't instantly kill a cleric, an xbow scout doesn't as well. Why do I see you hyping the xbow scout and katar raider so much?
Honestly, I've never played a CD seriously with ally cleric unprotected. Only a few number of people dared attack him while I'm still alive. Results? The cleric was able to support the team, I died a number of times when the cleric's heal and teammates' support were overcome, but nonetheless, the cleric was well protected.
The defense of the cleric is fine as it is. They only die too easily because their design is mostly ignored and are thus left unprotected. The reduced defense isn't much of a problem if your teammates protect you. And don't argue that I don't play a cleric that's why I don't know. I have always played my mage and kept the cleric well protected all the time, in return for him keeping my in the same protection.
The power of the AoE Purify is good as it is. No need to change.
That is all I was trying to say. In general I think the clerics are pretty good the way they are. The def nerf is fine, the purify is good now, etc. The scenarios I was talking about were mostly based on a lone cleric. It is still so hard to play CD as a lone cleric unless the other side has only 1 cleric. And the cleric should not be changed because of that or it will make the cleric not as Leo wants it to be. But being lone cleric is still sooo miserable, especially since you are generally up against a group of clerics.
Ahya- I want to be on your team. The teams on Leonis do not protect the cleric so much in general. At the start of CD, if I am the lone cleric, I now start out saying "Lone cleric, please try to protect me". It is silly to me that you would have to suggest that and that they would not just do it strategically. When I am getting ganged I have no chance if I run away so I run to my team. sometimes they see it and try to help but often they don't. I usually only do Cd now if I can group up with friends that I know will help if I need it.
Anyway, I am done. I'll let Feuer and Champ fight it out here for a bit.
#139
Posted 09 April 2014 - 09:55 PM
i would like to suggest something about cannon bourgs
since they're an artillery class, can you make their skill cooldown a bit faster? their jobs from what i understand is to inflict damage as far as they can. Their def is s squishy which is fine enough. They only rely on their aoe skills so when all aoe skills are on cooldown they cant do any ,from what i have observed.
just a suggestion and i love to play an artillery class
Edited by 3722121031200347517, 09 April 2014 - 09:55 PM.
#140
Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:08 AM
Bender: -NOT MOM- The ###'s guy.
Cannon bourges are actually pretty capable of defense. To be outright, they're pretty awesome in that regard. They have high crit, so they're hard to crit, reducing other cannon, katar, axe champ and bow scout damage due to lack of crit. And the 30% stackable def + mdef is pretty schweet too. I was in a CD earlier and there was a cannon, I went after him for that "easy kill" and he put up a darn good fight, and once his team backed him up, I was forced back, so they got survival. But I can defo see how running through all your AoE,s and not having any to cast for a time could be annoying. So I agree if they're having to wait on CD's, then they should be shortened.
#141
Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:13 AM
I think the CD sequence of their skills was 8-12-15-18-20-25seconds. This makes it really hard to be able to be capable of using their AoE's well. Perhaps make it 8-10-12-15-18-20 seconds? Not a big change, but it would smoothen out the cooldowns a bit to allow for slightly more continuous use of the AoE skills.
#142
Posted 10 April 2014 - 06:45 AM
what kills launcher bourg its not their coold down becuase you have triple atk too (most dmg skill) its their CAST time...
#143
Posted 10 April 2014 - 06:46 AM
Bender: -NOT MOM- The ###'s guy
Huh?
#144
Posted 10 April 2014 - 06:52 AM
Bender: -NOT MOM- The ###'s guy
Huh?
He meant
3722121031200347517 that guy uses a pic of Bender for his profile pic.#145
Posted 10 April 2014 - 06:54 AM
Oh yeah lol got it.
#146
Posted 10 April 2014 - 07:14 AM
what kills launcher bourg its not their coold down becuase you have triple atk too (most dmg skill) its their CAST time...
If only triple weren't so slow that you could five basic attacks in the same time..
The launcher is supposed to be somewhat slower given their nature, but I agree they need some slightly shorter cast times.
Edited by jerremy, 10 April 2014 - 07:22 AM.
#147
Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:57 AM
so i have something to ask or sugest up to you all to take it dont you think artisans shuld have an 2nd job aoe,thay did not get that on the last skill update so yea i think thay shuld get one becose my 3rd artisan am lvling now rarly get in to a party becose the 1th job aoe is so week that thay look away when i ask for party lol so yea i kinda dont want to sitt here and be a player that solo 3 artisans to 230 lol so zulie storm aoe skill that bourgs have i think it shuld bin good to have on artisan also so thay get more attractive in partys there, done, speak you minds girls and boys
#148
Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:26 AM
again... when will You guys fix dead bug / glitch in crystal defender?
#149
Posted 11 April 2014 - 02:37 PM
again... when will You guys fix dead bug / glitch in crystal defender?
When it can be recreated and caught so we can understand what's causing it in the first place. If we can't replicate a bug, it makes it extremely difficult sometimes to identify what the cause could be to make any attempt to fix it.
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