148 replies to this topic

[ChampPower]

Game Arena Update
Healing contribution to group activity has been lowered slightly as it was offsetting other group activity values.

I don't understand this part. What was wrong with healing? Most matches of CD the clerics only got higher scores if they were healing a lot and it was a close match. And even then They were rarely at the top. We are usually within the top 5 or so if it is a good game, but if it is a bad game Clerics are on the bottom in points. So is it healing to group activity combined points or healing points for the single cleric? I thought the only group points were for winning and taking down crystals.

Also, purify range should be at least 15m. from 25 to 10 is a bit drastic. Not much reason to get it for 10m range and 2 debuffs. I agree with the 2 but the range is pretty much worthless.

I agree with you, bendersmom. Reducing AOE purify to 3 buff and 15 meters range is fine, but they have to take one extreme step to another. First, they reduce it to 1 dispell. now, they increase it to 2 but reduce the range to a mere 10 meters. We have tried to be fair and reasonable, but they have tried to make thing unreason able because of their egos. It is OK, I guess. We can simply play the raider and write off the cleric class, as they have wished. Who would need buff and healing anyway, right? Write off part of Gravity is fine, too, for some people.

[Bendersmom]

Well I don't think I would go that far lol.  I just think that maybe increasing the range to 15 m would make it a more viable skill.  I am ok with the 2 debuffs for the unique skill since it is ranged, an aoe and the CD is shorter.  I will try it out but 10 range doesn't take into effect the synchronization or lack there of in the game (people seem close to you on your screen but are really across the map).

 

And all know that the Knight gets the lowest points by far so I don't think you can compare cleric points to knight.  I would more expect them to be in the order of some of the killers though.  Trust me, it is not easy playing cleric, a decent FS cleric, and we do far more work than someone just doing melees and cloaking, or a champ doing all aoes in the crowd.  So I would imagine a good cleric should be in the top 5 or 10 at least in a good war.

[Leonis]

Is there any chance that the DEV TeM will make the dragon mount tradeable or vendable?

No mount obtained through our Item Mall, to date, has been able to be traded or vended. The future holds many possibilities, so I'm not going to say either way regarding there being a chance. But I will say we have no immediate plans to change their status. But who knows what the future holds.
 

Game Arena Update
Healing contribution to group activity has been lowered slightly as it was offsetting other group activity values.

I don't understand this part. What was wrong with healing? Most matches of CD the clerics only got higher scores if they were healing a lot and it was a close match. And even then They were rarely at the top. We are usually within the top 5 or so if it is a good game, but if it is a bad game Clerics are on the bottom in points. So is it healing to group activity combined points or healing points for the single cleric? I thought the only group points were for winning and taking down crystals.

Also, purify range should be at least 15m. from 25 to 10 is a bit drastic. Not much reason to get it for 10m range and 2 debuffs. I agree with the 2 but the range is pretty much worthless.

First, the patch note explained why it was reduced. I'll explain it in a different way.

When you heal someone, you gain personal honor points and a group contribution value that will be used to show how active you were towards helping your team and that value is put to a group comparison and all honor gained within the group participation pool is distributed. What this was doing, especially for winning teams, was contributing a higher rate than intended, making them earn far more points than any other class of relative participation from other aspects of game play (damage, kills, and objectives). So it was reduced to be more on par.

Most matches we were witnessing Clerics were capping out far easier than other classes. It's not to say they shouldn't have been rewarded for their effort, however their effort was not equal to that of the ability of other players, so reviewing it, it was put to a small reduction as increasing the other aspects threw more contribution balances out of line.

Next, the Unique Purify's range was 20m, not 25m. So it was effectively reduced by half and is more focal to a group who may be engaging in a target that would inflict debuffs, not everyone in the vicinity. For the increase to area of effect from the normal Level 5 Purify, that is the skill upgrade. Many seem to be looking at it from the viewpoint that the skill was its own standalone skill, when it is in fact a progression of a skill. Just because a skill isn't the full effect you want, doesn't make it worthless. You can still affect multiple players. You just can't affect a large vicinity on a base rate.

Now, that being said, keep in mind the future holds more for each class, where certain stats can be obtained to further enhance a build or abilities. Let's not forget that there is a stat that can extend the range of your AoE skills, which would affect this particular skill. Does the skill currently exist? No. Could it? Most certainly. But that goes in to another set of unique skill abilities to work on and release for all the classes so they can further tweak builds and roles to their desires. There are still future level expansions as well, which means more skill points to become available for those skills.

The thing is, I'm looking more for the long run, not as much just the right now.

One small comment I want to make, "a good cleric should be in the top 5 or 10 at least in a good war" is also very dependent on the rest of their team. Just because the cleric did good, doesn't mean everyone else did spectacular. It is relative to the performance of the rest of your team. They could fall in last, no matter how good they did, if the rest of their team performed that much better than the Cleric. Of course you will gain honor from your personal performance, but in regards to where you'll place, is a matter of team activity. Just something to keep in mind.

[MidnightSmurf]

Fights have become shorter with the updates, We have stated this plenty of times in the last patch notes thread. Classes has gained lots of buffs like Berserk and the bourgs one and the mage one also overlaps. The raider got a ton of passive that takes affect upon melee hits. Overall the dmg output has been raised.

Yet you started off with nerfing the cleric and have been continuously done so step by step. I like the step-game but you're taking it too far. Haven't you noticed people letting you know how it works in the game by now? Time to take a step up again and see if they get happy enough?
Continuosly nerfing the most important class, in my oppinion at least, in the game is a bit wierd. To the point nobody wanna play it..

If you're planning on taking the importancy of buffs and healing out of the game, please tell us so.

[MidnightSmurf]

Next, the Unique Purify's range was 20m, not 25m. So it was effectively reduced by half and is more focal to a group who may be engaging in a target that would inflict debuffs, not everyone in the vicinity. For the increase to area of effect from the normal Level 5 Purify, that is the skill upgrade. Many seem to be looking at it from the viewpoint that the skill was its own standalone skill, when it is in fact a progression of a skill. Just because a skill isn't the full effect you want, doesn't make it worthless. You can still affect multiple players. You just can't affect a large vicinity on a base rate.
 

 

Good thing you pointed out the range was halved..^^

You like to point to words like "worthless" etc. I'd like you to look at what we're trying to get through rather then marking words and making them seem so out of place. Purify isn't worthless in the sense it's not viable at all it's just pure crap compared to what it used to be and makes it a pain the ass to play a cleric in CD. Remmeber what I tried saying about babysteps.. I could say Unique Integrity has been made worthless because when you use it on a Knight you take away their own Dmg Reduction wich is far superior. Doesn't mean I wouldn't use it on other occasions.

 

In all honesty you really don't consider the nerf of Purify to be an extreme one? It is beyond me how you cannot think of it that way. We have all agreed it was a bit overpowered, I think that aws mainly the 5 dispels and the fact you could really spam it BUT it still costed time to do so. And trust me when I say time is precious for a Cleric WAY more then for any other class who can wait with their skills and merely melee if they need to.

First to 1 dispel and 8sec cooldown wich is one hell of a nerf right? From 5 to 1 and a massive increase of cooldown.

--Here we give alot of feedback where we say it's way underpowered instead due to the massive nerf rather then a small nerf to begin with----
Now you go ahead and make it 2 dispels but halve the Area of effect (from 20 to 10).

That second step that should have been a boost ended up being another, this time small, nerf in my view. You didn't even touch the cooldown, had you decreased the cooldown to 5 seconds I could have better understand how you had intended us to use this. Throwing it on small groups far away (25m) rather then using it as we do normally - to the people next us like mages champs etc. I like the idea but it's not possible with this long a cooldown on such an important skill.

You're making the fights shorter and shorter and more tightly grouped while you let the raiders, ranged etc have more room and easier to melee down someone who dares leaving the "protected" area close to their team-mates (read Cleric).
Short fights are boring. So is static warfare in my oppinion.

Heed our advice, don't be so radical in your adjustments when all we're asking for is a small change at the time and then let us give more feedback on how we think it works. Cause let's be honest, you're a tiny team. You cannot possible have time to test it out as much as the people on this forum.

 

[Bendersmom]

Easy Smurf, personally I think what was done is a decent compromise.  The cooldown was reduced to 4sec when maxed, wasn't it?  And that is for both purifys I believe.  And they do not share a cooldown from what I remember (sorry, I am at work and can't check).  So in effect you can throw one at a group and one at the other cleric.  And I misunderstood, I thought the casting range was decreased not the AOE diameter.  I can see the changes in the AOE diameter as long as we have the casting range as far.  We will give it a try but overall I think it is a decent compromise.  Not Op by any means but not a nerf either.  Try it out and if it doesn't work well then say so.

 

"Purify

(The issue with Purify was well discussed from last week and the following was done to hopefully help resolve the utility of the skill, while still keeping some of the intended balance of use in being a debuff counter.)

• Cooldown starts at 8 seconds, reduces by 1 second per skill level after, to a mastered 4 second cooldown.
  • Level 1 : Dispel : 1
  • Level 2 : Dispel : 1 ~ 2
  • Level 3 : Dispel : 2
  • Level 4 : Dispel : 2 ~ 3
  • Level 5 : Dispel : 3

(Unique) Purify (AoE)

• AoE range will be reduced to 10m, from 20m
• Effect has been updated to a set number of Dispels : 2"

Leo - Thank you, I was not sure what the healing really meant.  So it is not our individual/personal honor points for healing that have been reduced (like others individual points for kills), it is the healing points as part of the group contribution honor points.  That makes sense to me if healing was contributing too much to the group points than say kills or other things.  

 

And the top 5-10 players comment was directed at a good war, lots of healing and work, that lasts a long time, and the cleric team wins.  For those I expect to be in the top 5 to 10 players since I work my butt off, especially compared to some who never get kills, etc.  Now maybe when you fix up the knight some and work a bit on the bourgs the top 10 will change some.  But until then people need to remember that the good clerics do a lot of work and get no kills, so healing is the only way for use to receive our points.

[MidnightSmurf]

I got carried away, pardon.
Completely missed that 4 second thingy, it still says 8seconds on my Cleric. Not sure what's implemented and what's not anylonger.

 

Maybe time to stop messing with the skills (no matter what I or others may say) and simply focus on more actual content

Edited by MidnightSmurf, 02 April 2014 - 11:01 AM.

[borgahutt]

ok just to let you guys know the changes that you stated you did to puri (for single target puri) havent tested the unique one has not changed at all. it still only removes one debuff and the cooldown is 3.5 seconds, so looks like it wasnt updated? or maybe i have to reskill??

[Leonis]

ok just to let you guys know the changes that you stated you did to puri (for single target puri) havent tested the unique one has not changed at all. it still only removes one debuff and the cooldown is 3.5 seconds, so looks like it wasnt updated? or maybe i have to reskill??

We'll look in to it.

[Leonis]

So, there's a few small things that need to get patched up. Mostly client based, but one server sided thing. So we're going to do a quick patch and restart. I believe announcements are already underway. The patch is to fix some visuals: descriptions and tooltips, the server side thing is an unmentionable value that didn't update properly, but will be after the update. So far, no one's noticed. But just in case, doing the restart to make sure its in effect as designed.

[pdfisher]

So, there's a few small things that need to get patched up. Mostly client based, but one server sided thing. So we're going to do a quick patch and restart. I believe announcements are already underway. The patch is to fix some visuals: descriptions and tooltips, the server side thing is an unmentionable value that didn't update properly, but will be after the update. So far, no one's noticed. But just in case, doing the restart to make sure its in effect as designed.

 

Just like Leo to mention his unmentionables! Muahahahahah!

[Infinity49]

And all know that the Knight gets the lowest points by far so I don't think you can compare cleric points to knight.  I would more expect them to be in the order of some of the killers though.  Trust me, it is not easy playing cleric, a decent FS cleric, and we do far more work than someone just doing melees and cloaking, or a champ doing all aoes in the crowd.  So I would imagine a good cleric should be in the top 5 or 10 at least in a good war.

Knight is not an easy class to play too. Without the "tanky knight" (no xbox here!) who defend their cleric(s)/mage(s) with protection, taunt aoe or one/one, debuffs (ap/movespeed), stun, dispell, decloack, handle the area of effect of all aoe (taunt and damages) at the right time, most of clerics/mages would die really fast. Did we get any reward in it? Nope.

We are a slave - as FS Cleric-, everything we do is for the team and there is no reward at all for knights, they get no point whereas we have a huge impact on a teamfight in term of survivability. Why should we play a class not easy to play, to earn no point, when we can play raider who just have to cloack-autohit/run away?

A lot of people talking about points for FS clerics in CD, but knight have a role of support too and get less points than clerics, and noone trying to defend it. =<

Edited by Infinity49, 02 April 2014 - 10:01 PM.

[IAfjiBa]

Knight is not an easy class to play too. Without the "tanky knight" (no xbox here!) who defend their cleric(s)/mage(s) with protection, taunt aoe or one/one, debuffs (ap/movespeed), stun, dispell, decloack, handle the area of effect of all aoe (taunt and damages) at the right time, most of clerics/mages would die really fast. Did we get any reward in it? Nope.

We are a slave - as FS Cleric-, everything we do is for the team and there is no reward at all for knights, they get no point whereas we have a huge impact on a teamfight in term of survivability. Why should we play a class not easy to play, to earn no point, when we can play raider who just have to cloack-autohit/run away?

A lot of people talking about points for FS clerics in CD, but knight have a role of support too and get less points than clerics, and noone trying to defend it. =<

 

There should be a point system, if you defend attack you should get more points. Knight have high defense and are abel to defense attack and should be abel to get more points. I dont know the pvp system today, so I dont know if its a system for that. Just a tought. But if this happend Cleric's should get more points becuse what I understand Cleric's has a high defense to. So maybe just make that defense point system for Knights? 

[kwayan19]

well on the upside knights aren 't targeted first

[Infinity49]

well on the upside knights aren 't targeted first

Well, focus the tank is not the best idea ever. But I don't think winning points must depend of the tankiness/squichiness of the class.

[kwayan19]

and another upside is your class doesn't suffer from frequent nerfs

[Infinity49]

and another upside is your class doesn't suffer from frequent nerfs

 

Indeed. But some nerfs were needed on clerics, some others no. But that's not the point.

Since several years, knight is underplayed -tanky version-, and do not get a lot of points in CD (and this is not the case of the FS Cleric -which before previous updates could reach max points just healing the cristal- and still make more than Knight).

I don't want any buffs for the knight, for me this class is usefull in all his aspects (tank or xbox) but when you are specialized in the tank-version -the one I like- it's not enjoyable to see our points at the end of the game/day when we did a good job.

[Bendersmom]

I agree Infinity, the Tanky knight does support the team and can really make a difference in a lot of CDs.  I have been advocating that the support knight get points for Defense reflected or blocked or something.  But it is a hard class to balance out points wise.  Some Knights are ok at Defensive tactics and have builds that give them a good amount of kills.  While others are built just to tank, debuff, stun, etc. rarely get kills.  So figuring out a way to reward the tanky knight seems tough when a knight can rebuild and actually get points as a fighter.  I guess they should maybe treat it like they did FS cleric and Battle cleric.  Figure out a way for the tanky knight to get points since they do contribute a lot to the games in their support, and allow the Fighting knight to get their points by kills like the Battle cleric (which some also get some healing points).

 

But because you are such tanks you do rarely die.  And because you don't really hurt the other chars people don't really target you.  So the Devs would have to be careful with how they figure out the means to gain points.

Edited by Bendersmom, 03 April 2014 - 01:25 AM.

[3722121031200347517]

the game is getting lame as patch goes...why not give points for taunt and protection efforts for the knight in order to support a nerfed cleric....why not devs observe a game of crystal defenders not only listening/ reading through forums or better yet play cleric in a game or two just to notice the difference 

 

from what i have observed is that being a hitter in a game is way more easier to play with compared to a support one and i think  knights and clerics shuld be rewarded better than hitters since as a cleric you have to buff and heal then change gear(wtf), and as a knight you have to wait for the right moment to taunt enemies in order to lengthen the life of their cleric

[Bendersmom]

Clerics are not that bad atm.  The biggest problem for a cleric right now is the massive amount of raiders that gang them.  Raiders hit hard, champ berzerk is still too high in my opinion, and xbow scouts hit really hard.  I can't heal through a good raider that is on me, but most other classes I can until help arrives. And I really think that Mana Burn needs to be re-evaluated.  Someone should not be able to take all of a persons MP in one or two shots.  It happens the most on the defenders side when the mage sits in the xtal and just mana burns people.

 

I agree that knights need some help and the Devs have acknowledged that too as far as points in CD.  But there are options to a knight build that can get you good points, but then you are less support for the team.

 

There seems to me, from a healing point of view, that a lot of classes are hitting exceptionally hard.  Champ berzerk is still really OP in my eyes when they can take out 4-5 people in one shot.  And Champ berzerk preceded or followed by a mage aoe kills half the team.  When raiders attack, sometimes just a single raider or maybe 2 I can't heal a person enough to keep them from dying, and I definitely can't heal myself through it.  I think we should try this all out for another week or two but in general it seems to me, from a healers point of view, that people are dying really fast.  

Edited by Bendersmom, 03 April 2014 - 04:58 AM.

[jerremy]

I disagree on berserk. The immunity to stun/sleep is definitely OP but most champs don't take out 4-5 people in one shot. That's mostly only sword champs with their massive skill powers and defense pierce. Axe champs can also delete some classes instantly but that's only single target. Spear champs, well they have some good sustained damage with attack speed and capacity to keep AoEing, but they definitely don't just delete a mass of people at once.

I mostly fear raiders and mages at the moment. Especially mages hitting 10k (you heard me right, 10k) skills, practically deleting an entire team by him/herself if you don't kill them immediately.

[ChickenBucket]

I disagree on berserk. The immunity to stun/sleep is definitely OP but most champs don't take out 4-5 people in one shot. That's mostly only sword champs with their massive skill powers and defense pierce. Axe champs can also delete some classes instantly but that's only single target. Spear champs, well they have some good sustained damage with attack speed and capacity to keep AoEing, but they definitely don't just delete a mass of people at once.

I mostly fear raiders and mages at the moment. Especially mages hitting 10k (you heard me right, 10k) skills, practically deleting an entire team by him/herself if you don't kill them immediately.

 

Well mages always been high output dmgers... i remember back when mages 3 skilled EVERYONE
 

[bl0b]

 

Scout
Aimed Shot

• Casting Animation Speed increased (faster)

Stun Arrow

• Casting Animation Speed increased (faster)

 

This ^....    

[Bendersmom]

I disagree on berserk. The immunity to stun/sleep is definitely OP but most champs don't take out 4-5 people in one shot. That's mostly only sword champs with their massive skill powers and defense pierce. Axe champs can also delete some classes instantly but that's only single target. Spear champs, well they have some good sustained damage with attack speed and capacity to keep AoEing, but they definitely don't just delete a mass of people at once.

I mostly fear raiders and mages at the moment. Especially mages hitting 10k (you heard me right, 10k) skills, practically deleting an entire team by him/herself if you don't kill them immediately.

Jeremy you just solidified my post.  You say they don't take out multiple people yet go on to say that sword and axe champs can.  And it is a mix - some single target and some AOEs or a combination of AOEs that take people out so fast. And yes, mages, no matter how squishy they are, can do a lot of damage before they die.  If they are protected by the group or a cleric then can do a lot more damage.

 

I thought the original theme to the skill balancing was keeping classes more equal so that one class or subclass can't take out people in one or two hits.  And it might be different in TG PVP matches but in CD a few classes are doing that.  Which makes game play not as much fun to a lot of us.  To me it is a lot better to actually be able to battle your way to the crystal or in defense of it.  But right now the matches are just attack, half of team dies (either attackers or defenders), regroup, do it all again.  There do not seem to be as many real battles at the crystal anymore.  The fun wars for me, win or lose, were when you actually battled.  And I don't think it is just me, a lot in CD are complaining about it.   Of course there are still the bad matches with one side having one or no cleric while the other has 4, but i am talking about a fairly evenly matched group with at least 2 clerics per side.

 

Could the attack or damage have been raised for classes or just the skills themselves are higher damage?  I am not sure since I can only speak from a FS cleric view atm.  But for the last few weeks I have been unable to heal my parties sometimes because of very fast deaths.  And I typically play with some pretty good players. 

[jerremy]

What I meant to say, it's not the berserk that is OP, it's sword/axe themselves (axe not so much, especially sword). Since you were saying "champ berserk OP", I just pointed out that another nerf to berserk might balance the sword champ out, but it would just be a big nerf for the spear champ.