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Upcoming Skill Changes; Protector/Commander and More!


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#76 zombi3

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:49 AM

lol like i said the deflect would only apply to pve angelic so it would have no effect in pvp again sorry forgot to label it that way, and it's purpose would be to take off the edge of some of the bosses harder hitting skills. @Sayuz i have seen many prots in FOC healing 5K+ to party members, which is pretty damn high, most radi's heal for 5-6k so it's pretty close.


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#77 Sayuz

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:53 AM

if there is a refelect it should be melee based. as a tank is mostly facing melee for grind party/raids.
hmm Block allready is op do they really need a reflect?

I agree. And what good use would be a reflect vs. A raid boss? Return 3k of damage? With proper debuff and classes wls serkers sins they deal 8-12k damage... lol
Bsck in S1 the broken morale skill was called sanctuary that reduced damage per say. Reduced like 100 of damage taken or 120. High end protectors have like 1.3k block defense. Lets say... cap defense = -80% damage + -1.300 of damage when blocked not enough?
And in my opinion there is a flaw in that system. Because when a AA normally hits and the protector blocks it is x1, when critical = x1 also. When a skill melee normally hits ajd protector blocks it is x1 and when it is a critical skill damage block defense is x2. So something is wrong there
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#78 Sayuz

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:56 AM

lol like i said the deflect would only apply to pve angelic so it would have no effect in pvp again sorry forgot to label it that way, and it's purpose would be to take off the edge of some of the bosses harder hitting skills. @Sayuz i have seen many prots in FOC healing 5K+ to party members, which is pretty damn high, most radi's heal for 5-6k so it's pretty close.

Many? Well... I am the only one that I know of and I started to share my build with other tanks to share the possibilities. Even more because I am a tank with 1.3k scad and 97% of tanks dont even have 1k scad. I am healing like that because I have no melee damage so I am playing as a tank, in my opinion should play, as a support.
You say that there are many, please do tell us the name of the players because I know almost all high end players and they know me. At least on triffi
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#79 zombi3

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:59 AM

if you want a pvp toon make a commander then. lol dont get me wrong here, im not trying to be a dick, but if we're going to make all classes pvp supportive then lets give Radi's some AoE skills they can cast and hide in and lets give them some heavy single damage skills. i've always thought some classes just werent meant to be pvp, you dont see radiants out there killing pvp toons. well i guess 1 is out there lol but if we're going to balance the class for pvp add Chain of Restraint and Rush to Defender skill tree and give protector some better DPS skills just single targets since commie has tons of AoE's


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#80 DarkJackal

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 07:32 PM

yes, and no i promote a protector protecting others, by keeping aggro of tough monsters, that is the roll of a tank isnt it? i dont promote a protector healing for more than a radiant does, nor promote that he can give everyone such a large defensive buff. and as for pvp i think we both know nobody cares to attack protectors as it is, like i said i see some prots it takes 3-4 people to take one down. and the deflection skill isnt meant as a REFLECT skill where like berzerker/druid it'll send damage back to attacker, but instead this skill would more absorb the damage making it a softer attack on the protector, and i said it would only work in PvE not pvp so in reality pvp would be the same, nothing would change except the fact that you cant buff allies in pvp, you cant heal allies for insanely overpowered numbers but that is what a radiant is for, for the defense buffs, Heals and support.

edit: apologies forgot to label the deflect as pve only 

 

You suggested to change prots heal and def buff to self, but we already have a self heal and def buff(tho not long range def). And we already have shield block, which is pretty much what deflect would be wouldn't it?

 

Maybe just switch the self and party def buffs so the party doesn't get as much, but still a little bit. And remove party heal. Or change it to some other form of party support.


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#81 RoxCore

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:01 PM

Many? Well... I am the only one that I know of and I started to share my build with other tanks to share the possibilities. Even more because I am a tank with 1.3k scad and 97% of tanks dont even have 1k scad. I am healing like that because I have no melee damage so I am playing as a tank, in my opinion should play, as a support.
You say that there are many, please do tell us the name of the players because I know almost all high end players and they know me. At least on triffi

U play ur tank like a healer... thats not a real tank dude.... 


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#82 MacMad

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:10 PM

Protector/Commander shouldnt be the priority if u wanna do some skill changes. Better focus on less played classes first, like Avenger/Elementalist/Ranger....

 

The idea of changing Rush to Defender skill tree and Taunt to Protector skill tree seems like a good idea, weakening Face Strike seems legit too. Dont nerf it to the ground, just a few secs less and its fine.

But all other changes arent necessary for this classes right now.

 

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@zombi3 a decent +10 - +15 Radiant can heal 5k+ , if u wanna do that with a prot u need some damn nice +30 stuff to reach that, AND ull sacrifice HP or anythng else if u dont have ur armor full  of Event hearts.

 

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#83 Sayuz

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:52 PM

U play ur tank like a healer... thats not a real tank dude....

If you understand that a tabk is a meat shield with 40k of hp 100% block rate that only stay in 1 place taking damage for no reason, yeah.
I am pvp tank. After a long time just running around in battlefields without being able to do anything, couldn't charge, couldn't kill, just hung around with party to buff and chat, O staryed to explore other possibilities. Which worked perfectly and now many tanks are starting to do the same because the broke out that mentality that a protector must be only a meat shield and must only tank in raids.
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#84 Sayuz

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:56 PM

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@zombi3 a decent +10 - +15 Radiant can heal 5k+ , if u wanna do that with a prot u need some damn nice +30 stuff to reach that, AND ull sacrifice HP or anythng else if u dont have ur armor full of Event hearts.

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Finally someone who understands the game mechanics. :) you just forgot to mention the Event skill 0.7 and scad 7 xeons ;)

Edited by Sayuz, 13 April 2014 - 11:57 PM.

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#85 Sayuz

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:59 PM

Protector/Commander shouldnt be the priority if u wanna do some skill changes. Better focus on less played classes first, like Avenger/Elementalist/Ranger....

That's true but I guess this is Helium's 1st step. And the class that need the most help is Dominator. But lets focus on that on another topic :)
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#86 Cleffy

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 12:51 AM

I think it would be much more interesting for them to actually fix the game mechanics before borking around with the skill balance. There is a huge issue with the very basic game mechanics that ultimately makes a character like the protector useless. That issue being singular variable chances in a level based game. This means capped defense and capped resistance for almost any class once they start to reach higher levels. Having multi-variable chances to account for leveling, and an actual accuracy formula would probably be the best place to start class balance as it will be the main issue that everyone is trying to side skirt around.

First I think there should be a chance at missing based on a player's stats instead of their level. I think the best solution is accuracy / evasion with a hard cap of 95% and 5%. Anything over would then count as additional critical chance. This chance should apply to both skills and normal attacks.

Second I would change the damage taken formula to damage / 2^(defense / damage). What this formula would do is make every time the damage is meet in defense, the damage would be halved. This should also be the method used in calculating resistance.

Finally, skills should have the same attack speed of normal attacks.
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#87 Justtank

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 01:10 AM

There is no real reason to change Taunting Cry away from Defender Tree. Commanders are useless enough in PvE already ! In PvP it isn't as useful to me anyway.

As I mentioned earlier, regarding Defender buffs, we should not change these, for we need all the fillers we can get. If you are still lacking a skill in Protector tree, suggest a new skill instead to be fair.


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#88 Sandyman

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 03:45 AM

its pretty easy... (dunno why not all see that!? mby already +30)

a +25-30 Player can easy rape a full Party of +10 Players i see that nearly each Day at the FoC 

is that right?! ofc. he needs to be rewarded but dominate in such a Way? if you think thats right than I`AM WRONG HERE!

 

only thing what kind of slows him down are the Stuns / halts but if nobody noticed it yet...

 

Temperions don`t really PLAY TOGETHER - most only waiting to deliver the Last Hit for the Kill!

 

thats the Situation.

 

+30 can be stopped IF the opposite Team have the Right Class against him.

 

and IF they work together to take a chance - but that i see rarely.

 

i dunno about what most speak but MY Goal is to reduce the Influence of the Cash Shop - thats all.

for that Each Class needs a skill or opportunity to put something in the balance! or better 2 skills.

 

i don`t want to Cash Up only to keep up with - NO NO not to that Point that wee see since in the Last Years.

 

its fine to Pay for Prem or get your Gear  to +10 -+ 15 i don`t want that for free but i repeat myself over and over

the Balance is OVER THE TOP!

 

i thought the Goal is to change that?!

 

if you want to talk about +30 VS + 30 than fine but than i save my Breath for a MMO that welcomes new Players! 

or at least integrate em into the Game - not only for Cannon Fodder.


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#89 Vulcano

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 04:28 AM

: o!


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#90 RoxCore

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 04:56 AM

If you understand that a tabk is a meat shield with 40k of hp 100% block rate that only stay in 1 place taking damage for no reason, yeah.
I am pvp tank. After a long time just running around in battlefields without being able to do anything, couldn't charge, couldn't kill, just hung around with party to buff and chat, O staryed to explore other possibilities. Which worked perfectly and now many tanks are starting to do the same because the broke out that mentality that a protector must be only a meat shield and must only tank in raids.

I am a pvp tank too... and i can kill most player in this -_-ty game easy with 3 or 4 hits


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#91 Helium

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:52 AM

that chart only gives a narrow perception of the game. 

consider this - Most defilers at end game have been playing for over 4 years. they are normally experienced players who have top notch gear. (theres also the typical mall hoe who just clubs people with 'money' rather than skill)

 

Druids only became fashionable last 2 years? (i've lost track of time with these updates) simply due to OP skills that went unchecked for a long time. prior that, there were no serious druids.

similar with WL.

 

tempest are the only class to not suffer any serious changes this whole S2. easy to play. easy to kill people while hiding behind walls.

 

i am surprised with saker and mystic's position. thought it would be higher but there arent that many old mystic/saker players still here i guess.

 

 

my recommendation would be to look closer at specific dedicated/cashed up players who make up the majority of matches and remove them from the stats and then analyse the data. my gut feeling is that it will change a fair bit.

 

Indeed. The average contribution, as a single statistic, does offer only an extremely general and narrow view for analysis. It does give some insight though. While it does not tell you what Races and/or Jobs are are the most successful killers, the most successful healers or the more often on the winning team; it does tell us what Jobs are being rewarded more or less for their participation on average, since battlefield rewards are more often than not based on contribution. For my part, I would like to end up having this data set show little deviation between all the 1st Job classes and 2nd Job classes. Other data sets such as kills, wins, deaths, losses and so on are not what will show balance to me because the classes are successful based on different factors (for instance a healer will not have a high kill count but may still be a successful battlefield participant). Everyone obtains and uses Battlefield Reward Points according to the same standard though, so it is a good gauge by which to measure balance perhaps.


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#92 RoxCore

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 07:24 AM

... noone needs foc or ion points lol


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#93 Sandyman

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 07:54 AM

at the Tournament VS RU how many Ranger did you saw? how many Elements?

 

if you think Classes are well balanced into this Game you must have picked a OP Class like so many other

 

the History of ReQQ shows there was always a Huge Train Wagon of Job changer - after each so called "Balance".

 

why is that so ? huh? i tell you the Devs where never interested into creating a Balanced System.

 

Only into make one more OP after the Other so People have to change and use the IM.

 

-

Dear Lord the Server is so close to collapsing after more than an half million new Player joined and stayed in the Game...

 

We went from 1 Server to nearly 100 ...its all perfectly fine...and only the Trolls must spam`ing there iniquity on the Forums

 

may Xeona save and forgive  me.

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Sandyman, 14 April 2014 - 07:56 AM.

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#94 BumblefootV7

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 08:17 AM

As it shows below my class avenger is the most in need of a boost. Now id love to see such a boost. However... i dont believe this "development" team have either the skills, knowledge or the will to make the class any better.  My advice to you is not to touch avenger at all or you may find your last avenger rage quits the game. The last time you touched my class everyone quit it completely. Not to be big headed but there is no one other than me left in requiem who can suggest any plausable changes to Avenger class. I doubt anyone in requiem will disagree with me on this. Why are you messing with peoples skills? You know what happened in past when you did this. Everytime you guys make a change you pick the worst of all possible changes. Like WL hush nerf where u literally made the skill non useable to anyone playing WL. instead of an increase with DNA u decided to change it to 2 - 2 -2 -2. If you try that crap with my class you can wave your last long goodbye to me. I have no interest in what you think is good for this game anymore cause quite frankly u dont have the first clue. The worst thing ever to happen here is koreans giving u control of game. So far all uve did is copy , paste, recolor, resize and sell as "new". Please spare me from your changes to my class and leave avenger as it is. Id rather u did nothing as i can always count on you doing that correct to a standard we expect.

 

My words may be harsh but this games only 1 year older than Aion. If you look at the last year of updates here ul see why this place is now boardering on a bad joke or a crude form of customer extortion.

 

 

Here is the battlefield average contribution by job over the last year:


Character Job Name Average Battlefield Contribution Defiler 46445 Druid 44975 Warlord 43240 Tempest 41868 Protector 40126 Mystic 39527 Radiant 39100 Commander 34947 Ranger 34927 Forsaker 34029 Assassin 29623 Dominator 28094 Berserker 25415 Shadow Runner 20267 Elementalist 19522 Avenger 18530 Battle Magician 6598 Soul Hunter 6260 Shaman 5682 Hunter 5558 Warrior 5486 Templar 5404 Defender 4981 Rogue 4740  

 

 

 


Edited by BumblefootV7, 14 April 2014 - 08:26 AM.

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#95 BumblefootV7

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 08:20 AM

p.s Helium if your really want to fix avenger pm me. If not feel free to make the class even more useless. Since your last update to avenger i am the only one who doesnt play it as an alt.  You can bet those figures you pulled for avenger are nearly all me unless you also include 69 and 49 level brackets.


Edited by BumblefootV7, 14 April 2014 - 09:54 AM.

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#96 Sayuz

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:54 AM

I am a pvp tank too... and i can kill most player in this -_-ty game easy with 3 or 4 hits

Nice, so you are offensive tank. I ak defensive and support tank :)
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#97 Sayuz

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:58 AM

As it shows below my class avenger is the most in need of a boost. Now id love to see such a boost. However... i dont believe this "development" team have either the skills, knowledge or the will to make the class any better. My advice to you is not to touch avenger at all or you may find your last avenger rage quits the game. The last time you touched my class everyone quit it completely. Not to be big headed but there is no one other than me left in requiem who can suggest any plausable changes to Avenger class. I doubt anyone in requiem will disagree with me on this. Why are you messing with peoples skills? You know what happened in past when you did this. Everytime you guys make a change you pick the worst of all possible changes. Like WL hush nerf where u literally made the skill non useable to anyone playing WL. instead of an increase with DNA u decided to change it to 2 - 2 -2 -2. If you try that crap with my class you can wave your last long goodbye to me. I have no interest in what you think is good for this game anymore cause quite frankly u dont have the first clue. The worst thing ever to happen here is koreans giving u control of game. So far all uve did is copy , paste, recolor, resize and sell as "new". Please spare me from your changes to my class and leave avenger as it is. Id rather u did nothing as i can always count on you doing that correct to a standard we expect.

My words may be harsh but this games only 1 year older than Aion. If you look at the last year of updates here ul see why this place is now boardering on a bad joke or a crude form of customer extortion.

Helium, bumble is right... you should start fixing the classes that really need the fix. Avengers, rangers, elementalist and the one that need the most help DOMINATOR. It is a dead class, has always been.
I give you an example of the big problem: dominator as a pet master is not able to capture a monster, instead avengers are capable. Why?
Focus on those classes... so far commander and protectors do not need any urgent change like those other classes
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#98 Helium

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 11:04 AM

I figure I should offer up my feedback on the topic, so in the spoiler below I lay out my thoughts on the skills of the Defender branch. In the end, I am open to changing opinions on these given the right Antidote or data set to show me why

Spoiler

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#99 Helium

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 11:11 AM

You should know Alteris and Helium don't play nor enjoy this game, which is why they are so bad at developing content for it.
The most unbalanced thing in this game is the cash shop. This is followed by unavoidable instant cast 100% success rate stuns that primarily affect melee. This in turn diminishes the overall usage of melee characters until they made overbearing clamor. Now that Overbearing Clamor was over nerfed, we will once again see a huge drop in melee due to the stuns in the game.

1st sentence is all FALSE.

There is some truth in the other statements but the same are the reasons we are here encouraging discussion in this thread!


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#100 Helium

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 11:19 AM

Protector/Commander shouldnt be the priority if u wanna do some skill changes. Better focus on less played classes first, like Avenger/Elementalist/Ranger....

 

Well, although I did not choose the order, and I agree that there may be more priority for some classes as opposed to others, nevertheless it would be best to keep moving forward on these discussions and changes that will follow in the order we have already began. Remember we plan on making changes to all the branches of the Skill Tree for all character classes.


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