201 replies to this topic

[Helium]

Looking back 1 year, I was curious about what skills were learned and to what level. So in the spoiler below...

Spoiler

Job	skill_name	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10
Defender	Fighting Will	49711	34588	28111	22082	17076	12221	8965	5992	4702	3924
Defender	Quick Attack	30747	25436	22164	19176	15823	12729	11243	9752	8711	8101
Defender	Chain Slash	24555	14732	11888	9524	7834	5983	4838	3402	2585	1918
Defender	Survival Instinct	8979	7410	6979	6752	6567	6263	6120	5539	5393	5231
Defender	Vital Stab	11182	7883	6278	5196	4360	3369	2512	1926	1581	1401
Defender	Physical Blessing	14340	7604	5867	4598	3323	2265	1688	1318	1136	1039
Defender	Skin of Stone	5602	4659	4519	4414	4189	3996	3828	3717	3612	3458
Defender	Shield Strike	5483	4975	4850	4744	4544	3557	3346	3122	2932	2697
Protector	Lesser Party Heal	4021	3800	3717	3743	3560	3362	3084	1552	1513	1473
Defender	Onslaught	4370	3544	3404	3204	2859	2450	2378	2190	2036	1884
Defender	Dire Strike Slash	8265	4473	3700	2759	2099	1583	1405	1233	1102	1061
Protector	Spiritual Intensification	2310	2263	2264	2223	1547	1549	1524	1434	1292	1105
Defender	Taunt	7653	2402	1615	1201	992	791	713	659	600	566
Commander	Moonlight Slash	2409	2321	2263	2154	1555	1453	1398	1301	1206	1030
Protector	Sacred Hand	2255	2118	2189	2125	1504	1463	1370	1262	1157	971
Commander	Boomerang of Sword Aura	2362	2247	2183	2065	1491	1371	1297	1213	1099	877
Protector	Low Blow	2198	1894	1808	1731	1699	1597	1544	1053	968	883
Commander	Adamant Mind	2251	1830	1750	1712	1652	1557	1456	1075	1035	996
Protector	Shield Mastery	2319	1856	1762	1687	1611	1547	1471	958	889	850
Protector	Restoration	3256	1873	1669	1564	1428	1301	1250	803	720	677
Commander	Rush	2355	1921	1796	1701	1596	1365	1305	814	702	657
Commander	One-Handed Weapon Mastery	2254	1795	1711	1613	1509	1400	1345	746	689	660
Commander	Chain of Restraint	2041	1754	1687	1598	1512	1305	1240	869	803	702
Protector	Aegis of Protection	2252	1944	1833	1715	1109	1046	973	846	750	615
Commander	Face Strike	2041	1828	1741	1629	1157	1060	1041	957	863	729
Protector	Shield Fortress	1694	1493	1412	1354	1252	1078	897	0	0	0
Commander	Beam Slash	2500	1018	882	773	691	568	511	208	182	165
Commander	Promise of Victory	2154	692	543	451	389	278	249	91	80	70
Commander	Uplifting Cry	1475	1329	1169	972	0	0	0	0	0	0
Protector	Restraint Rescission	1063	426	318	396	415	373	333	261	146	116
Protector	Broken Morale	1016	808	666	571	0	0	0	0	0	0
Defender	Taunting Cry	527	209	164	137	119	101	93	40	36	32

[Sayuz]

Nice thoughts on your feeback Helium.
Protectors:
Protectors healing is fair enough as it is because a protector has to spend 20 dnas to lower the cooldown from 40s to 15 - 20s.
Shield Strike: helium to remove a 3s stun is not good lol... it is the only time a protector have to hit 3 times a target in pvp WHEN he is able to reach it lol

Commander:
Great though about extending the matery to both 1 hand or 2 uanded weapons.
I am not so sure about the skills ignoring defense, becuase defense do influence the damage on those skills despite what it is written there.

Edited by Sayuz, 14 April 2014 - 12:07 PM.

[Helium]

First I think there should be a chance at missing based on a player's stats instead of their level. I think the best solution is accuracy / evasion with a hard cap of 95% and 5%. Anything over would then count as additional critical chance. This chance should apply to both skills and normal attacks.

 

Agreed on the problem. Not sure on the solution you are proposing though.

 

Second I would change the damage taken formula to damage / 2^(defense / damage). What this formula would do is make every time the damage is meet in defense, the damage would be halved. This should also be the method used in calculating resistance.

 

 

Agreed that resistance being dealt with the same way as defense makes sense. The change in formula you propose may be over the top though.

 

Finally, skills should have the same attack speed of normal attacks.

 

 

Perhaps. As long as your not referring to cool down time or duration time...

[Sayuz]

Looking back 1 year, I was curious about what skills were learned and to what level. So in the spoiler below...

Spoiler

Jobskill_name12345678910DefenderFighting Will4971134588281112208217076122218965599247023924DefenderQuick Attack30747254362216419176158231272911243975287118101DefenderChain Slash2455514732118889524783459834838340225851918DefenderSurvival Instinct8979741069796752656762636120553953935231DefenderVital Stab11182788362785196436033692512192615811401DefenderPhysical Blessing14340760458674598332322651688131811361039DefenderSkin of Stone5602465945194414418939963828371736123458DefenderShield Strike5483497548504744454435573346312229322697ProtectorLesser Party Heal4021380037173743356033623084155215131473DefenderOnslaught4370354434043204285924502378219020361884DefenderDire Strike Slash8265447337002759209915831405123311021061ProtectorSpiritual Intensification2310226322642223154715491524143412921105DefenderTaunt7653240216151201992791713659600566CommanderMoonlight Slash2409232122632154155514531398130112061030ProtectorSacred Hand225521182189212515041463137012621157971CommanderBoomerang of Sword Aura236222472183206514911371129712131099877ProtectorLow Blow21981894180817311699159715441053968883CommanderAdamant Mind225118301750171216521557145610751035996ProtectorShield Mastery2319185617621687161115471471958889850ProtectorRestoration3256187316691564142813011250803720677CommanderRush2355192117961701159613651305814702657CommanderOne-Handed Weapon Mastery2254179517111613150914001345746689660CommanderChain of Restraint2041175416871598151213051240869803702ProtectorAegis of Protection225219441833171511091046973846750615CommanderFace Strike2041182817411629115710601041957863729ProtectorShield Fortress169414931412135412521078897000CommanderBeam Slash25001018882773691568511208182165CommanderPromise of Victory2154692543451389278249918070CommanderUplifting Cry147513291169972000000ProtectorRestraint Rescission1063426318396415373333261146116ProtectorBroken Morale1016808666571000000DefenderTaunting Cry52720916413711910193403632

You gotta check before S2 Helium... on the early game a commander used to have Blink, a teleport, beamslash ignored defense dealing 4-5k damage and things lole that. 1 year ago I guess you guys just added lvl 80 skill

[Helium]

Nice thoughts on your feeback Helium.
Protectors:
Protectors healing is fair enough as it is because a protector has to spend 20 dnas to lower the cooldown from 40s to 15 - 20s.
Shield Strike: helium to remove a 3s stun is not good lol... it is the only time a protector have to hit 3 times a target in pvp WHEN he is able to reach it lol

Commander:
Great though about extending the matery to both 1 hand or 2 uanded weapons.
I am not so sure about the skills ignoring defense, becuase defense do influence the damage on those skills despite what it is written there.

 

Thank you. I am happy to keep up such discussions, as I mentioned I am reserving the right to change my mind, so whether we can or cannot arrive at a point of agreement I am encouraged by the posts so far (that includes everyone) and I think we are making progress understanding what needs to be done. I am going to go get something to eat but I 6 users on this right now so I am hoping to keep up the productive back and fourth.

[Helium]

You gotta check before S2 Helium... on the early game a commander used to have Blink, a teleport, beamslash ignored defense dealing 4-5k damage and things lole that. 1 year ago I guess you guys just added lvl 80 skill

 

Indeed. I will see about taking a look as far back as season 1 for these data sets. Instant Moving was in the Commander Tree, I did not remember that. I certainly remember my Radiant with Blunt Strike... That was pretty OP to have a stun (probably too OP). Also, Please note: Beam Slash ignoring defense =  BROKEN (in my opinion).

[Sayuz]

Other thoughts:
Promisse of Victory is kinda usless since Accuracy only works with Auto Attack damage and 99% of Commanders are skill spammers. Maybe adding both Accuracy and Evasion could make this skill worth something but even with that I am not sure people would use it.
Defender's Damage Skills: Helium what most people do once they reach high lvl and have a good skill critical and skill critical additional damage is only to get those skills at lvl 1 because the damage would be influenced by scad... the damage on those skills (only onslaught has a decent damage that worth spending 10 points) are so low that it doesn't matter. Just lvl 1 is enough.
Taunting Cry: What about the possibility of increasing the hostility of the skill and maling it be able to pull monsters within are to the protector? Could it also be applied to pvp?
Lowblow: max targets could be increased because it is hard to grind when you have good damage in party

Edited by Sayuz, 14 April 2014 - 12:35 PM.

[Cleffy]

Agreed on the problem. Not sure on the solution you are proposing though.
 
 
 
Agreed that resistance being dealt with the same way as defense makes sense. The change in formula you propose may be over the top though.
 
 
 
Perhaps. As long as your not referring to cool down time or duration time...

Accuracy - My idea is very simple. All attacks and skills are affected by accuracy and have a chance at missing. My formula is simply Player Accuracy / Target Evasion. AOE is done on a per target basis. The simple formula produces a value between 0-1. I added a clamp that ranges should be between 5% and 95% so there is always a chance at hitting and a chance at missing. Then just run a random number generator and if the value generated is over, it misses.
In order to give an advantage to heavy accuracy classes, % chance over 95% is added to the critical rate for that attack.

The current formula runs on the same logic of using a logarithm. Mine just uses 2 variables instead of 1 to determine damage reduction. The way its setup is to reduce damage by half every time the defense matches the damage. So it becomes half of a half of a half. Of course if we start thinking elements, then its probably best to start thinking of damage as fire damage and physical damage, then calculated separately. The initial problem will be how to guard against each type of magic as well as physical attacks. This really offers a lot of additions to the defender tree building out these resistances.

When I talk about attack speed, I mean it in a way to get rid of skill spammers. Although I use skill spamming in my builds, I understand that it was unintentionally done by the devs. This would manifest as an after attack delay or a scaling of the attack animation to span the player's attack speed. This wont affect cool-down, cast time, or duration time. So someone with a 2.6 speed would take 2.6 seconds to do a power attack instead of 1 second. It would also open the door to speed based skills that have a shorter attack speed than normal.

I also forgot to mention the rethinking of Skill Crit and AA crit. It adds complication only to melee classes as there is a need for both types of crits for different builds, where as casters simply need to concentrate on one type of crit. It might be better to think of it as physical crit, and magic crit making it so physical attack characters don't have oddly split sets.

Edited by Cleffy, 14 April 2014 - 02:41 PM.

[Viole]

That attack speed idea nerfs every class that doesn't have an innate attack speed buff lol, and it makes boh even more sought after and powerful. There is no way that is a good idea at all in practice.

[warjat69]

Imo shield strike need few sec longer cd,taunt should be moved to prot tree and thats all. Personaly hate commies couse im low def sin and they all focus on me when they can hehehe but they are ok.

Prots are fine if we talk about PvP but they need some change in PvE. That should be only class which can tank a boss (in end game dungeons ofc). Now its possible for every class and its dumb a bit. And btw where are prots on this server? Know just WarGodess and Sayuz which both are old players. Nowadays its usless class and noone play as prot.

[zombi3]

I agree with your idea on taunt sayuz, it'd be pretty cool to see it pull monsters/enemies, but maybe not the aoe taunt perhaps just the single target one, it could be pretty overpowered in aoe form. or make it a skill only available for protector class, this could give them a bit of edge in pvp.

Edited by zombi3, 14 April 2014 - 06:58 PM.

[WorkYaDangNag]

As someone who has played commander for about a year or so now i'd say that changing too much at the balance that the game is in right now would maybe break the commander. I would be willing to have tweaks done like having the hush dropped some but with the cooldown shortened or just subtract 3 seconds or so. As a commander you do need to be able to break the lines and stop that healer or aoe threat to the team(its single target so you need to be smart,it's strategic).

The people that know my Commander "Communist" would probably say im super OP but i am a Mall Whore with top of the line enchantments. If i am to fight equals in gear i cant fight more than 1 guy at a time. Most people have in the range of 25k hp and cap def. If i lose a single skill (Face strike, sheild strike, slow) that would change the whole fight to the point where i can't stand a chance. If face strike was shortened i would understand that, 22 seconds is a long time. On e thing people need to keep in mind is that Us melee dont do as much damage on average as casters and we dont get planted AoEs. Helium doesn't seem like he wants to smash the existing commander which im glad. At this point i would say its still comes down to the shortening the gap between cash shop/non cash shop for Prot/Commie skills. Maybe after they fix the other classes i'll change my opinion on the matter and say they need an other tweak but as of now i wouldn't do much.

 

On a final note. I think to bring a use to the taunt skills in pvp. (not sure if its possible) When people get hit with a taunt i think they should auto target the taunter so it actually pulls the aggro off of people that way the attacker would have to re-tab back to their target or physical click back on their target.

[WorkYaDangNag]

If you want to counter a Commander you can make a Defi with Lithify, Sin, Berserker, or Protector. I think thats a pretty good list of counter classes TBH. Defi has lithify coupled with fear and Shadow Binding with aoes on you most cant survive that. Sin can just slow you and steal your weapon then just kill you with xbow over time. Berserker... you can fight them and kill yourself with their damage reflection plus their crazy damage. Protector...-_-. You can just fight them 'til your hands fall off and give up.

My point is Commander isn't as unstopable as some people may make you think.

[AngelicPretty]

huhu that graph of skills kinda sjows alot ppl made 69's. lvl4 AM etc is max at 69

 

u say u dont really want to touch Facestrike and AM. but it the  main thing people have said touch slightly on comies.

 

and i loved the animation of Blunt strike with Staff *~*

 

mb if u make 2H weap mastery skill give them that skill since they cant use shield.

Even if u change its effect it be cool animation have back

 

 

[jenderalnaga]

Here is the battlefield average contribution by job over the last year:

 

Character Job Name Average Battlefield Contribution Defiler 46445 Druid 44975 Warlord 43240 Tempest 41868 Protector 40126 Mystic 39527 Radiant 39100 Commander 34947 Ranger 34927 Forsaker 34029 Assassin 29623 Dominator 28094 Berserker 25415 Shadow Runner 20267 Elementalist 19522 Avenger 18530 Battle Magician 6598 Soul Hunter 6260 Shaman 5682 Hunter 5558 Warrior 5486 Templar 5404 Defender 4981 Rogue 4740

as you can see,evenger is the lowest second job in the contribution ....

give the trap stun back to non casting time,coz that the only skill avenger have to lock the movement target,and only last 6 sec,if you compare to sleep skill and trap of stifness skill,that also have casting time,they last longer(sleep 9 sec,trap of stifness 14 sec),and another job have non casting stun...
and for smoke shell firing (hunter job skill),decrease attack range,its not working,that a good skill for battlefield ....
spreading child level 60 avenger skill,its says in  the skill tree,can slow the movement,but it not slow  at all ....
the last one ,can you give a dna for escaping cool down skill,coz 23,2 sec downtime its way to long ....

Edited by jenderalnaga, 14 April 2014 - 10:24 PM.

[Sayuz]

as you can see,evenger is the lowest second job in the contribution ....

give the trap stun back to non casting time,coz that the only skill avenger have to lock the movement target,and only last 6 sec,if you compare to sleep skill and trap of stifness skill,that also have casting time,they last longer(sleep 9 sec,trap of stifness 14 sec),and another job have non casting stun...
and for smoke shell firing (hunter job skill),decrease attack range,its not working,that a good skill for battlefield ....
spreading child level 60 avenger skill,its says in the skill tree,can slow the movement,but it not slow at all ....
the last one ,can you give a dna for escaping cool down skill,coz 23,2 sec downtime its way to long ....

Avenger is a messed up class that should be entirely redone. But thay should be discussed in another topic and bumblefootpk is the most indicated to help with that.

[exilehunter]

its so refreshing to see someone who actually knows the game actively involving the community to make things better. kudos mr noble gas.

[Cleffy]

That attack speed idea nerfs every class that doesn't have an innate attack speed buff lol, and it makes boh even more sought after and powerful. There is no way that is a good idea at all in practice.

I'm not saying I have a Berserker, but... I do. There is always an answer to how to address attack speed after the loophole with attack speed is addressed like faster casting skills. There is actually only 1 class this affects and that is Warlord since they use two handed weapons and don't have a speed buff. Unless of course you want your super cool commander with a two handed weapon.

[SidZSpY]

Just curious when can we except for the results and the changes of skills to happen?

 

[Viole]

Lower level avengers, druids if they get made into a physical class again. It's plain and simple a dumb idea when most builds are already stressed about skill point distribution when you play a certain STYLE of _____ class.

There's much better changes than that to be made. If it ain't broke don't fix it and this is a mechanic that isn't broken save for the difference in animations that will hit when you're stunned when playing as a SS serk or WL (or other classes for that matter).

Edited by Viole, 14 April 2014 - 11:24 PM.

[Justtank]

I figure I should offer up my feedback on the topic, so in the spoiler below I lay out my thoughts on the skills of the Defender branch. In the end, I am open to changing opinions on these given the right Antidote or data set to show me why

Spoiler

Usefulness Legend

 

usefulness rank relative 1 adequate 2 acceptable 3 insignificant 0 essential 5 absolute 6 significant 4

 

 

Skill Name Effect How Effect What Usefulness My Notes Chain Slash DAMAGE_DEALT Active hostile relative Skill seems relatively useful. Damage output low, but in Player vs. Monster, and before taking a 2nd Job, is reasonable. Destructive Strike DAMAGE_DEALT Active hostile relative Skill seems relatively useful. Damage output moderate but in Player vs. Monster and before taking a 2nd Job, is reasonable. Dire Strike Slash DAMAGE_DEALT Active hostile adequate Skill seems moderately useful. Damage output higher and seems useful in Player vs. Monster before and after 2nd Job. In Player vs. Player the damage output may be somewhat low. Fighting Will PHYSICAL_ATTACK_SUCCESS_RATE Buff friendly relative Skill seems relatively useful. In Player vs. Monster this skill can beuseful due to greater need for Accuracy in Player vs. Monster as opposed to lesser (lack of) need in Player vs. Player. Onslaught DAMAGE_DEALT Active hostile acceptable Hmm. It's ok. Physical Blessing HP_REGEN Buff friendly insignificant Given the fact that HP Regen is always at -100% while in combat state, this skill is almost completely worthless. Enough time to end combat state (allowing the Physical Blessing bonus to work) equals enough time to sit and regenerate anyway. Quick Attack ATTACK_SPEED Buff friendly essential If characters are often making auto attacks (which the Defenders branch often does), increased attack speed is always a good, right? Return RETURN Active friendly absolute Duh! Shield Strike DAMAGE_DEALT ; STUN Buff hostile significant The only Stun in the this skill tree branch! I feel this skill should belong only to the Commander and not to Defender and Protector. But I am open to discussion on this of course. Skin of Stone PHYSICAL_DEFENSE Buff friendly significant A Defender (and its 2nd Jobs) can always use more Physical Defense. Survival Instinct PHYSICAL_DEFENSE Passive significant (As above.) Taunt HOSTILITY/TAUNT Active hostile essential What is a tank without the ability to taunt the enemy!? Taunting Cry HOSTILITY/TAUNT (AoE) Active hostile essential (As above.) Vital Stab DAMAGE_DEALT ; DAMAGE_IGNORES_DEFENSE Dot hostile significant Defenders only Damage over Time attack. I found it invaluable in Player vs. Monster and I have gotten a kill in battlefield after I died thanks to Vital Stab (with DNA to extend the time, but still). Adamant Mind CANNOT_CHANGE_TARGET_STATE Buff friendly essential Likely NOT to mess around with this! Beam Slash DAMAGE_DEALT Active hostile acceptable A long range skill attack in the Commander branch, how odd… I bet Commanders would cry if we took it away though… Boomerang of Sword Aura DAMAGE_DEALT ; DAMAGE_IGNORES_DEFENSE Dot hostile acceptable This one ignores defense! Mighty important if you ask me. Chain of Restraint MOVEMENT_SPEED Buff hostile essential Can be vital for a typically short range character (Commanders) and a target trying to get away from you and stay out of strike range. Chain Slash DAMAGE_DEALT Active hostile acceptable Unlike its 1st Job equivilent with the same name, this one actually does some damage and is a decent supplement to auto attacks. Face Strike DISABLE_SKILLS Buff hostile significant Likely NOT to mess around with this! Moonlight Slash DAMAGE_DEALT ; DAMAGE_IGNORES_DEFENSE Dot hostile acceptable This one ignores defense! Mighty important if you ask me. One-Handed Weapon Mastery MASTERY Passive significant I question whether or not Commanders should really be specialized in using single handed weapons necessarily, except that the only stun available to the class has a requirement to have a shield equipped. Otherwise, not really in keeping with the Commanders theme. Promise of Victory PHYSICAL_ATTACK_SUCCESS_RATE Buff friendly adequate This is 1 of 2 buff type skills in the Commanders branch. I feel this skill should belong only to the Protector and not the Commander. But I am open to discussion on this of course. Rush INSTANT_MOVEMENT Active hostile significant This is often the only recourse to close the distance gap between a typically short range character (Commanders) and a target trying to kill you before you even get in range to strike. Uplifting Cry MOVEMENT_SPEED_PARTY Buff friendly significant This is the other 1 of 2 buff type skills in the Commanders branch. I feel this skill should belong to Defenders, Commanders and Protectors. It seems essential that the all Defender branch characters be given at least a chance to keep up with a target. As always, I am open to discussion on this of course. Aegis of Protection BLOCK_DEFENSE Buff friendly significant I understand the issue with the seemingly invulnerable level 90 Protector, keep in mind this applies between physical damage dealing characters but will not save a Protector from property damage (but then the heals will). Broken Morale (SR)_PHYSICAL_CRITICAL_ATTACK_SUCCESS ; SKILL_CRITICAL_ATTACK_SUCCESS Buff hostile acceptable I imagine a group debuff lowering Critical hit rates of multiple targets is valuable! Lesser Party Heal HEAL_PARTY ; HEAL_DOT Dot friendly acceptable Targeted/Party Heals are a resonable type of skill for a Protector to have but the question is how much, how many, and how often… Low Blow DAMAGE_DEALT ; HOSTILITY+ Active hostile significant In addition to having some awesome bonus damage, this attack throws a taunt on the target too! I am not totally sure it belongs with Protectors (or only Protectors). Restoration HEAL_DOT Dot friendly significant A Self Heal over time is a resonable type of skill for a Protector to have. Restraint Rescission REMOVE_SKILLS ; REMOVE_SKILLS Active friendly essential Likely NOT to mess around with this! Sacred Hand HEAL ; HEAL_DOT Dot friendly acceptable Targeted/Party Heals are a resonable type of skill for a Protector to have but the question is how much, how many, and how often… Shield Fortress BLOCK_SUCCESS Buff friendly acceptable In keeping with the Protectors theme (part of which benefits from using a Shield). Shield Mastery BLOCK_DEFENSE Passive acceptable Not sure what the heck is going on here… It would seem Protectors should have Shield Mastery but Commanders get One Handed Weapon Mastery even though a One Handed weapon (or no weapon) is required to equip a shield whether or not you are a Commander or Protector! I suppose the division is to make the Commander more offensive and the Protector more Defensive but I find it odd nonetheless. Spiritual Intensification PHYSICAL_DEFENSE Buff friendly significant Party buff for Defense… Sounds just like a Protector to me…

 

 

 

In here you mentioned Promise of Victory, I just wanted to remind you it is an important skill for Commanders along with all defender buffs, mainly against Soccerkick.

And we can't forget those who play autoattack Commander, some have reported it to be helpful. Although I hate using my precious skillpoints for fillers, it is often the only way to survive.

Other buffs dropped from monsters in game have long cooldown, the ones from Battleground merchants can't be used outside Battlegrounds obviously.

 

As for Shield Strike, it got nerfed by almost double the amount of cooldown, a long time ago, if I am not mistaken.

I like the idea of having both 1-h and 2-h weapon mastery for Commanders, but without any stuns, it would be useless in PvP.

And as I have tested in game a +30 trinity 2-h sword, it adds very little damage, and nowhere near enough to compensate for losing block,

not to mention the much slower attack speed using skills with a 2-handed. This just adds to the trouble of making a 2-handed commander.

 

I forgot to add something very important, about 1-h weapon mastery, many skilled PvP commanders have no skill points left for this.

Even if Weapon Mastery was made much stronger, the tactical skills will always be more important in team play.

In my opinion the Commander is about survival, as it comes from Defender class. A shield makes more sense than 2-handed weapon for most players in the community I've spoked to.

 

For those who already invested much of their time acquiring a decent shield+sword, making Commander a 2-handed specialist only(if that was your intention), seems highly unfair.

Unless I misunderstood something here, in which case forgive me. There must be a way to have both options while keeping everyone happy.

Edited by Justtank, 15 April 2014 - 02:06 AM.

[Sayuz]

I like the idea of having both 1h and 2h weapon mastery for Commanders, but without any stuns, it would be useless in PvP.

I guess it could be interesting to create 2 types of stuns, 1 for protector and 1 for commander. For protector must be a shield strike, like we have nowadays, and for the commander a stun possible to be used by 1 handed or 2 handed weapon together with Hush with 1 handed or 2 handed weapon.
That would create a possibility of new builds for commander, more offensive and force to loose defense capabilities of shield. But if he still wants to use a shield he would still have stun and hush.

So move Shield Strike to protector skill tree and create a new stub skill usable only for commanders on their skill tree.

[Sayuz]

In here you mentioned Promise of Victory, I just wanted to remind you it is an important skill for Commanders along with all defender buffs, mainly against Soccerkick.
.

We should consider making skills high lvl skills worth of spending points not only using them as fillers to avoid 1 skill from 1 specific class, dont you think?
In my opinion promise of victory should also add Evasion, So evasion and accuracy and should have a slight increase. Atm, id I am not mistaken lvl 1 =2.3k and lvl 10=5k. So with 1 point you get 2.3k and 10 points you get 5k... better to get 2.3k and save 9 skill points.
Adding evasion could be really effective to the party and even to PvE vs. AA (monsters, raid bosses and vs. Players) making a commander useful again in PvE.
Commanders do no have any useful party skills and therefore is not needed in any raid or grind. We should think about something to change that

[Sayuz]

Another interesting idea is to remove quick attack from defender skill tree and create a party buff for attack speed on the commander tree. Like tempest's Blessing of Haste, why should a tempest have a buff like that? And allow this speed buff to be higher than 1.0 at lvl 10, lets say 1.5s at lvl 10 to make it great in pvp or pve and make Commanders sacrifice their skill points in order to be a team player and help their party. and that would also encourage a new type of commander build, AA that is not being used since Gorkey left the game and lvl 75 armor was the strongest in the game.

 

 

[Sayuz]

Another cool idea is for a commander to have a skill that should remove the party from stun only, instant cast but with a high cooldown. example, if a druid rushes in and stun everybody a commander could counter that stun with a "SHOUT OF LIBERTY", you understand what I mean lol, and encourage the  players to move again and fight for their team. I guess this is a much better skill than Uplifting Cry and in a commander's description it says that a Commander has the ability to remain calm and active in the battlefield and focus his mind, hence the Adamant Mind.