296 replies to this topic

[Feuer]

 "Raiders" are not supposed to tank as well but they enjoy the privilege of 2 cloaks , 2 stuns , high crits and exceptionally high dodge.

 

1 Cloak: Cloaking is meant to avoid damage, while assaulting. Sure it can be used to get away, but really? why waste that? Also this is the Raiders equal to the Range factors scouts enjoy. [void on duals they are just outta luck, until they pop Evasive and trololol your butt all day] But the Range factor is a constant, which is why melee range Raiders have slightly more Dodge. 

:: granted with the charge counter, it doesn't do much for the very overly common aspd builds.::

1 Stealth: This is strictly to get away, equal to Camo on a scout.

 

1Stun : They only have sucker punch, which does no damage. Scouts, Have 2 Stuns, both of which do damage. [Bow + xBow alike]

Bow: Stun Arrow & PvP Impact Arrow

xBow: Stun Arrow, Shield Stun

 

1 Sleep: Shared with Katar + Dual. Scout equivalent of Sleep is the mute trap they have. At least to me it is. Both are a method of CC for different situations, but aren't always good in all situations.

 

Bow + Katar have some good Crit, about the same in fact. -The only difference is if they land Critical Weakness stacks, but that takes a damage action, from a passive standpoint of a constant value, both have 10% crit passives] And then you got Duals + xBow, who use pierce def.

 

Note: I personally don't consider the Critical Weakness as a true passive, as you need to perform an action to gain the benefit over-time, and remain in action to keep the bonus. It's more like a debuff that requires melee attacking. Sure the skill is learned as a passive, but it's not constantly on, like a true passive. 

[DestinyDeoxys]

Here is a review of all the classes in crystal defender, the number of each classes highly affect the win/lose outcome of a match.



Number of Support Clerics

0 - you lose for sure, there is no game unless enemy team has none as well
1 - there is game, but not optimized yet
2 - it is optimized if the two clerics know what they are doing
3 - it is optimized
4 - worse than 2 and 3, due to lack of damage output if you have 6 fighters only



Number of battle clerics

0 - you are fine without these badass
1 to 2 - it will be nice to take out the Sword Champions, Spear Champions
3 - at this point, people are usually spirit rating - 50%, due to the fear of no buffs
4 to 10 - too much of a thing is just not good



Number of AOE (Sword Champions, Spear Champions)

0 - you lose for sure without any AOE in the team
1 - it will be great as long the cleric is healing it
2 - better one AOE alone
3 - optimized
4 to 8 - it is still optimized as long as there are two clerics healing them, AOE is never a burden



Number of ranged AOE (Mage, Launcher bourgeois), this entry is heavily dependent on the player itself, only people that is experienced and play them correctly will help the team tremendously

0 - you won't lose if you lack these classes
1 - these classes are very squishy and will be the 1st target, so the player itself is very important
2 - it is optimized
3 - this is the point where there are too many squishy classes, and the cleric cannot supply with enough heals
4 to 8 - any thing at this point and beyond is a burden, due to lack of heals



Number of taunt knight

0 - the squishy classes such as clerics/mages/launcher bourgeois are gonna suffer without a knight
1 - one knight is optimized
2 - two knights is also optimized
3 - too many knights will cause the team lack of damage output



Number of katar raiders, it really depends on if the raiders in the team can communicate with each other, telling each other who to target first and so on

0 to 5 - the team is fine with or without raiders, as long as they can perform teamwork, they will be helping the team a lot
6 to 10 - too many katar raiders will cause the team suffer from lack of heals, taunt, AOE



Number of crossbow scouts and crossbow knights, they are really the one that dominates at range

0 - it will be bad if the team is pure close ranged, no one will be able to handle the other team artisan/gunbourg/bow scouts
1 - one of it is optimized
2 - two of it is also optimized
3 to 10 - too many single target ranged tanks will cause the team suffer from lack of heals, taunt, AOE



Number of artisan/gunbourgs, it really depends on the player know what he/she is doing, their job is to take out other team artisan/gunbourg/bow socuts

0 to 5 - the team is fine with or without artisan/gunbourgs, as long as these glass cannons know where to hide and keep their distance while stick close with clerics/knights, they will help the team tremendously
6 to 10 - too many of a class will just cause the team suffer from lack of heals, taunt, AOE



Number of bow scouts, you are gonna love how I rate this class, the number of bow scouts is directly proportional to how bad your team perform

1 - it is fine you can pray on the scout can take out some mages/launcher bourgs
2 - it is worse, because they usually fight at 40m beyond, the cleric will have to get out of cover to risk and heal, but guess what? your healing power is just not enough to keep a bow scout alive
3 - at this point, it might be better if the cleric just ignore these scouts, let them do their own stuff and whatever they want, only heal them if they are close to you
4 to 10 - good luck, bow scouts are just a burden for the team due to how much heals they require in order to pray them to at least take out some mages or launcher bourgs





 

 

Sorry, I totally forgot the dual swords class, it is as lame as bow scouts, it is just that a dual sword raider require less heal to be kept alive than a bow scout, the amount of work done is really just the same as a bow scout due to their troll crippling storm and their AOE wound status.

[Feuer]

Your review pretty much makes each class sound utterly useless. Just my perception.

[Valakas]

1 Cloak: Cloaking is meant to avoid damage, while assaulting. Sure it can be used to get away, but really? why waste that? Also this is the Raiders equal to the Range factors scouts enjoy. [void on duals they are just outta luck, until they pop Evasive and trololol your butt all day] But the Range factor is a constant, which is why melee range Raiders have slightly more Dodge. 

:: granted with the charge counter, it doesn't do much for the very overly common aspd builds.::

1 Stealth: This is strictly to get away, equal to Camo on a scout.

 

1Stun : They only have sucker punch, which does no damage. Scouts, Have 2 Stuns, both of which do damage. [Bow + xBow alike]

Bow: Stun Arrow & PvP Impact Arrow

xBow: Stun Arrow, Shield Stun

 

1 Sleep: Shared with Katar + Dual. Scout equivalent of Sleep is the mute trap they have. At least to me it is. Both are a method of CC for different situations, but aren't always good in all situations.

 

Bow + Katar have some good Crit, about the same in fact. -The only difference is if they land Critical Weakness stacks, but that takes a damage action, from a passive standpoint of a constant value, both have 10% crit passives] And then you got Duals + xBow, who use pierce def.

 

Note: I personally don't consider the Critical Weakness as a true passive, as you need to perform an action to gain the benefit over-time, and remain in action to keep the bonus. It's more like a debuff that requires melee attacking. Sure the skill is learned as a passive, but it's not constantly on, like a true passive. 

In fact, I wasnt complaining or saying that a raider is OP , I am just saying that while a Raider is well protected by many factors for them to do their job , a bow scout unfortunately lack the proper defense. Range of a bow scout is only as good when their enemies stand still and allow them to do their shooting. More often than not the battles will be brought close up to the scouts and what that happen, you cannot expect to say a Bow Scout's only option is to camo and run away because "We were supposed to be ranged and not meant for close quarter combat " . A bow scout should at least have some chances of standing toe to toe at least in a 1 v 1.  A champion in berserk will take out half our HP away and when confronted by Raiders, their critical attacks will stop us from acting effectively .  

Role of a Bow Scout is extremely versatile in a TG Clan vs Clan war. But in CD unfortunately , there are too many constraint. Like I said, in CD , Raiders being close quarter fighters will often enjoy the support of Cleric's heal and while we bow scout can do the same, we usually wont survive the AOE or any sudden target by a champ or raider. Standing from a distant sounds good and looked good , but standing out also means announcing to everyone, I am here... come and get me. Sometimes we die even while in Camo due to the Mages aoe. A bow scout's stat in the scoreboard is usually the less Healing Received and the Less Damage Given.  

Some adjustment to help us survive better could make things fairer for us. I'm not talking about tanking like the xbow classes , but at the very least being able to stand firm in a 1 v 1 and not run like never before whenever someone approaches. Even better protection against Critical hits could be a very good armor for us. 

[Feuer]

Unfortunately, they're not designed to stand toe to toe, that's not how a ranged class design functions. 

[Valakas]

Unfortunately, they're not designed to stand toe to toe, that's not how a ranged class design functions. 

^Sounds like politicians there. 

Then the designs are flawed and since there are no fixed definition on how a ranged class should perform, this current issue of bow scout's point rating in CD especially needs to be addressed . I also dont agree with the said design function for the bow scout is unfortunately like that and nothing should be changed. If the expectation is that a bow scout must not and cannot stand toe to toe in at least 1 v 1 fight against a raider or other Ranged class , then expectation is illogical. No one should limit the capability of a class based on pre-determined "Expectations" when these expectations did not take into consideration of other factors revolving around Rose Online.

Unless the expectation was for Bow Scouts to run away everytime someone comes after them, to remain cloaked because their mspd and camo cooldown isnt ready for them to make another run yet , to only hit others and avoid getting hit at all cost  , be significant only when your team is winning and you can give chase and take out retreating enemies , make good use of low dodge, low hp, low def, low mdef  and most of all , despite everything you armed your scouts for , you all could do was run around CD and hit whoever you pray didn't see you and then get low points for it .  From all these live situation happening right now in CD  , it doesn't looked like a good and sound design at all. 

 

[Feuer]

It's perfectly logical, you SHOOT tings from a range, you need to be fast on your feet, and avoid close encounters as often as possible, you're a hit and run class. If you're trying to stand toe to toe against a champ, you're gonna lose. That's the way it's designed, if there's an issue with it then I'd like to first see how the person plays. I can keep a range easily on any target with exception to Dual Raiders. But that's also the designed feature of Duals, so you can't argue that fact. 

 

Personally, my opinion is, I've rarely seen someone playing a scout how it should be played. You're a SCOUT, you scout ahead, report locations, set traps, and wait to Ambush weak prey. You're not just supposed to stand in one spot trolololing. That's what xBow knights are for. Just my opinion, but it sounds like people just want classes to be a faceroll = autowin. Cause right now, I've never seen Katar raiders so veraciously defending their build stats etc, and I think its cause they just click, pop a few skills here or there for crit down, blind etc, and just afk while they kill something. 

 

IF, and this is only IF they're really having that much of a problem, then perhaps Camo CD should be lowered. It's currently on 40 seconds? We could Try it at 25-30, and see how that works. But Honestly, the damage they inflict is fine, matter of fact, it HURTS a lot. Especially when they land a Crit Burst. 

Edited by Feuer, 11 May 2014 - 09:47 PM.

[Phish]

That may be true Feuer, but the nature of the game arena, or should I say Crystal Defenders in particular revolves heavily on  staying close to the group because of how important clerics are. If you are away from your cleric and you start getting hit as a scout, you need to run. But at the same time, if you are just fleeing you aren't helping the team much either.

 

Now I haven't  played bow scouts in pvp in the current system, but from what people are saying there are quite a few useless skill in the tree. Bow scouts are pretty fragile and I think having a decently strong accuracy down on one these less useleful skills would help. They'll still be frail but if when they'll be more potent at ambushing if they can cripple a targets offense too.

Edited by Phish, 11 May 2014 - 09:52 PM.

[Feuer]

K

 

If you're running, odds are someone's chasing you, unless you're a paranoid Schizophrenic. So you = running, enemy = not helping team either. The actions cancel each other out. 

If you're playing as a scout, odds are you have good movespeed, and will be able to outrun most people. Or get away if you have timed your camo correctly.

The fact that it rely's on people staying close to group, mostly only applies as an issue to The ranged classes who CANT go Camo, For example, BA's have it the worst. They can't sleep to live, cause of the AoE's / People pulling from sleep. They don't have Offensive buffs like Gun Bourgs, or Defensive Buffs like Cannons + Gun Bourgs. Really, Arti's got it way worse then Bow Scouts. They got no outs, and no defenses. 

 

Like I said, I see this whole thing as people just wanting to be able to faceroll on a scout and never die. 

[Valakas]

It's perfectly logical, you SHOOT tings from a range, you need to be fast on your feet, and avoid close encounters as often as possible, you're a hit and run class. If you're trying to stand toe to toe against a champ, you're gonna lose. That's the way it's designed, if there's an issue with it then I'd like to first see how the person plays. I can keep a range easily on any target with exception to Dual Raiders. But that's also the designed feature of Duals, so you can't argue that fact. 

 

Personally, my opinion is, I've rarely seen someone playing a scout how it should be played. You're a SCOUT, you scout ahead, report locations, set traps, and wait to Ambush weak prey. You're not just supposed to stand in one spot trolololing. That's what xBow knights are for. Just my opinion, but it sounds like people just want classes to be a faceroll = autowin. Cause right now, I've never seen Katar raiders so veraciously defending their build stats etc, and I think its cause they just click, pop a few skills here or there for crit down, blind etc, and just afk while they kill something. 

 

IF, and this is only IF they're really having that much of a problem, then perhaps Camo CD should be lowered. It's currently on 40 seconds? We could Try it at 25-30, and see how that works. But Honestly, the damage they inflict is fine, matter of fact, it HURTS a lot. Especially when they land a Crit Burst. 

I actually agree with things you say here , if you relate it to normal clan vs clan wars in tg , ruins, dod or clan fields. What I am saying mainly is in relation to Crystal Defense. How do you propose things you said there to give good results on the score board ? Thats my point.  I'm not even talking about having higher AP or Crit rates for a Scout, i am pointing out on adjustment be made for Scouts to be more self sustainable. I suggest you try arming a full gear bow scout and attend at least 20 rounds of GA to understand more of what I'm talking about. 

A high enough MSPD to outrun Raiders and some other classes ( we all know how characters are moving very fast these days ) will give us low AP and Def. With that set of gears we dont usually amount enough to even scratch them . The Hit and Run thing will put our damage given and kills even lower than usual. No matter if we are attacking or defending , unless our team has 3 clerics , crystal camping is a big no no . Most of the time , we cannot do the required condition enough to get good points. 


Edited to ADD. 
 

 

K

 

If you're running, odds are someone's chasing you, unless you're a paranoid Schizophrenic. So you = running, enemy = not helping team either. The actions cancel each other out. 

If you're playing as a scout, odds are you have good movespeed, and will be able to outrun most people. Or get away if you have timed your camo correctly.

The fact that it rely's on people staying close to group, mostly only applies as an issue to The ranged classes who CANT go Camo, For example, BA's have it the worst. They can't sleep to live, cause of the AoE's / People pulling from sleep. They don't have Offensive buffs like Gun Bourgs, or Defensive Buffs like Cannons + Gun Bourgs. Really, Arti's got it way worse then Bow Scouts. They got no outs, and no defenses. 

 

Like I said, I see this whole thing as people just wanting to be able to faceroll on a scout and never die. 

 

I suggest you take a different approach in your judgement over other's view. Its easy for you to be typing everything here and explain the rules of survival of a bow scout . No doubt you have plenty of experience and knowledge on how the mechanic works, one thing however stays uncharted from any design blue print. The mind and play style of people.  

Unless running and staying hidden give points in CD starting now , then we're not even talking about the same thing here. You seemed to think that the skill "Camo" is a sort of Jet pack or survival suit usable in every situation . Like I said, do try playing it for 20 rounds and then give it some thought again . Tell me if you don't feel tired of getting low scores for the effort you put in . We wan't to enjoy CD as much as everyone else and get well deserved returns for it. No one here is even talking about making a Scout OP or having impenetrable defenses like you implied.  

Edited by Valakas, 11 May 2014 - 10:13 PM.

[Feuer]

I wasn't juding other peoples view Valakas, that was just my opinion. Like I said, if I could see the people who are adamant that scouts are unbuilt, as assess why they feel that way, then maybe I could relate it better, but as it stands it's just my perception of whats being said, and what I see successful Scouts doing. 

 

Also I fail to see why all forms of PvP that you listed are so drastically different then CD, the only difference is Stat buffers + Food. That's it. cept maybe puri pots. As for all the rest, it's all the same. 

Edited by Feuer, 11 May 2014 - 10:17 PM.

[Valakas]

I wasn't juding other peoples view Valakas, that was just my opinion. Like I said, if I could see the people who are adamant that scouts are unbuilt, as assess why they feel that way, then maybe I could relate it better, but as it stands it's just my perception of whats being said, and what I see successful Scouts doing. 

 

Also I fail to see why all forms of PvP that you listed are so drastically different then CD, the only difference is Stat buffers + Food. That's it. cept maybe puri pots. As for all the rest, it's all the same. 

The whole point of what I said above was mainly about  " Bow Scouts - CD points. " in relation to each other. Not in a pvp or real war situation. The conventional hit and run method in CD isn't effective for us to gain points. You mentioned successful scouts that you met are doing correctly , and I can also tell you that it is very rare for me to find myself lower than other bow scouts in the CD Scoreboard and even when it comes to a real war situation, my bow scout is ferocious in many ways. But if doing what we were supposed to do did not give us the points we think we deserved , then what is the point of bow scouts going into CD? Its already useless for us to appear in DG. One of the good reason to play a bow scout in Draconis is when you want to pk players in Ruins and get away swiftly .  

Edited by Valakas, 11 May 2014 - 10:27 PM.

[Infinity49]

IMO, the fact that kills give less points in CD than the total of damages done really impact bow scouts. They cannot stand in a fight, they tank nothing, their dodge is not enough to "tank" a bit. They have to ambush or help a mate (who need or not) in a 1 v 1 to pick up a kill/some damages (that's what scouts have to do i think). But, killing do not give a lot of points, and they cannot make a lot of damages due to the class design (not tanky at all, have to kite etc...). So, they didn't get enough reward from CD due to the playstyle of the class (like tanky knight).

 

But, I think there is a huge gap between Xbow and Bow scout. Xbow have more cc, more ap, is more tanky. Bow scout shouldn't not be tanky, he can be a good support with traps (even if the time of activation kinda suck) but I really think that it is not normal that Xbow scout have more AP (or awsome passives like pierce) than bow.

 

Edited by Infinity49, 12 May 2014 - 12:39 AM.

[bl0b]

As one of the few full time bow scouts in Draco , here is my opinion .  

I agree that the 10% critical buffs should be made exclusive and not as a party buff. Everyone seem to think and like to believe that life as a bow scout is somewhat easy especially with that one camo skill that everyone thought was "good enough". I also agree however on the fact that Bow Scouts are not meant to tank at all given our superb range and ability to "Shoot through walls" . Then again , I believe our hawker class counterpart , "Raiders" are not supposed to tank as well but they enjoy the privilege of 2 cloaks , 2 stuns , high crits and exceptionally high dodge.

The shoot from far away only works if the enemy team is broken or if you find your teammate dueling with someone and you decided to attempt a kill steal.

- When 2 teams clashes and a bow scout decide to stand with the team to gain Heals  = Scouts die from AOE blast. 
- When 2 teams clashes and a bow scout stands in maximum range = Its like you strip yourself naked now and take a run downtown . It gets you into trouble. One raider who goes invi and sneak behind you would be the end of you. One BA who decided to take aim at you = Sayonara~ ( Jap word of saying goodbye ) . Most ridiculous thing is, one BC who runs up to you with 3 phantom buffed swords will also be enough to kill you.  
- Also please remember this, when 2 team clashes a bow scout's damage wont even be close to doing enough damage to land a kill , especially when there are clerics healing. 

Just like a fellow scout above mentioned , a Bow Scout is only effective against another Bow Scout. Before we even decide to show ourself, we gotta time and look at our Camo cooldown timing first which is not very enjoyable especially in CD. Our secondary companion, the hawk also causes us dilemma. If we are on a more tanky / ap build , the hawk will give away our position when we are cloaked and we wont have the speed to run for it . If we put on a more speedy build , sometimes you'd be dead before your hawk could even catch up to you from behind. Hawk is good for defending team but not as an attacker.  

The traps are only good if you have enough support from clerics and your team can hold them off for a long time. Then again, reality again remind us that usually when we have enough clerical support and a team that can hold them off, we wouldn't need the traps either. Why waste my time planting traps to siphon the cleric when 80% of my teams are here for the points ? I might as well just go DPS as much as I can to get my points. Not sure if any non bow scouts here noticed , have you guys ever take a look at the scoreboard whenever a bow scout is involved ? Have you seen the damage they did in CD ? Yeap sometimes I get 11-15 kills in a game but I still get much lower points compared to my other teammates because of their Damage Given and the comfort of being most of the time near the crystal. 

Just try playing as a Bow Scout and understand how the class itself is a hero no one noticed. We ran around covering the whole team most of the time without clerical supports. People expect us to take care of other range classes but not realizing the only class we can stand getting shot at first is by another bow scout. We provide range support with minimum protection , but who's gonna protect us ? Sometimes I have to help a team mate just because he was getting "Violated' and my Camo Cooldown wasn't even ready yet , I showed myself and help him only to make myself vulnerable to a raider who was already around . In the end, we both could use the toilet better than before.

Also has anyone mentioned yet ? The Skill animation bug ? Whereas sometimes you cast a skill that could save your life and your turned out to be freezing there with the bow raised up like its getting ready to shoot but it never did ?  Some of the build Feuer mentioned is kinda interesting , but rather than just imagining and typing it out here, I would like to see anyone with that build in CD and do well before I am close to being convinced it is a good build for a bow scout. To stand there and execute things you said there is easy if no one else notices you and come after you. In a real situation , we are one of the first the raiders , BA, Bourg , Xbow Scouts, Xbow Knights, BC and sometimes even Mages will break away from the formation just to snap us and finish us off. 

As an AP class, we Bow Scouts are weaker than our Hawker counterpart, the Katar raider. As support , we are worse than the Dual raiders, in terms of AP/Tank build, we are outclassed by Xbow Scouts.Already against all these odds, why shouldn't the Critical buff made exclusive only to Bow Scouts? 

This^, is everything I feel put into words

 

Number of bow scouts, you are gonna love how I rate this class, the number of bow scouts is directly proportional to how bad your team perform

1 - it is fine you can pray on the scout can take out some mages/launcher bourgs
2 - it is worse, because they usually fight at 40m beyond, the cleric will have to get out of cover to risk and heal, but guess what? your healing power is just not enough to keep a bow scout alive
3 - at this point, it might be better if the cleric just ignore these scouts, let them do their own stuff and whatever they want, only heal them if they are close to you
4 to 10 - good luck, bow scouts are just a burden for the team due to how much heals they require in order to pray them to at least take out some mages or launcher bourgs

So true!, every cd i make sure i check the how much heals i received and most if not all,  I'm the lowest. Because most clerics think "OH he's a bow scout, he doesn't need heals..." or "You too far away". but don't get me wrong, there are a few clerics that actually do concern themselves with the ranged classes and run out of cover of the crystal just to heal you,  and I can't thank them enough.


 

 

 

Like I said before, I've been playing bow scout for a long time, and I know what they can or cannot do, I'm definately not the best, but I would like to think myself as one of the top bow scouts in leonis( in cd that is, always sucked at pvp). Believe me when I say they normal damage of all of the classes(excluding knights of course)is the lowest. I've seen it and tried it. 

 

People that complain about the skill that does 5-6k damage, impact arrow, which has a 20 second cooldown by the way, and they burst damage, have not met a mage, sword/axe champ, gun bourgs/arits  and maybe a few raiders. Mages and champs can literally do more damage with each of they skills( which have way lower cooldowns than that of the 20 second impact arrow), gunners and raiders. given 20 seconds,raiders and gunners will do 5 times more damage just with they normal attacks

Another thing regarding the epic bow, it has a   measely 59 dodge substat which is ridiculous compared to what other class epics get, 135 ap on the riftbuster, 147 accuracy on remorseless echo, 135 ap and 147 accuracy on endless blade, fearless vengence got 135 ap, 76 crit and 147 ap on the devestation, sundering force and i can go on... how can 59 dodge be compared to 135 ap, or 147 accuracy.. 76 crit. Also the description of the piercing arc reads "With deadly accuracy, this bow was designed to be able to pierce through solid rock" Shocker!. Whats happening in game is the arrows are just bouncing off our opponents armor, scratching them. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining( I know it sounds like it) that my bow scout is weak and I cant kill everyone, No. But they do need that extra something, a little boost to even the playing field.  

 

 @feuer, bow scouts only have one 2 second 20 second cooldown, stun. The pvp impact arrow has a totally unreliable 30% chance stun. Which, again, compared the to the pvp uniques that other classes get, Isn't much. And I'm pretty sure you don't get any points for scouting the enemy team and laying down traps.

 

Another thing, this is solely for pvm's sake. scouts have an aoe, arrow shower and I think it should be stronger. reasons? only one aoe, they have nothing to offer in dungeon runs, nothing to offer in leveling ( maybe luring at mastyx once you high enough). scouts are probably the worst pvm class out there.so instead of adding another aoe skill( most classes have 2+ aoes) make the current one stronger. 

 

It really does sound like I'm complaining so I'm gonna stop here.   

 

Edit: Raiders might two cloak skills(both with less cooldowns), but they also have exceptionally high dodge to go with it. Thats like 3x more survivability than they bow counter parts. 

Edited by bl0b, 12 May 2014 - 06:25 AM.

[Leonis]

Notice regarding Pegasus:

Pegasus has been taken offline, in preparation for advancing in development and testing for the DB update. We will be preparing it for the 'conversion' and open it to the public to test with us for finding bugs and getting feedback. I've asked that a list of things to focus test on, which will get posted when we're ready, as well as any potential aspects that are not ready for testing or knowingly broken.

[Feuer]

 @feuer, bow scouts only have one 2 second 20 second cooldown, stun. The pvp impact arrow has a totally unreliable 30% chance stun. Which, again, compared the to the pvp uniques that other classes get, Isn't much. And I'm pretty sure you don't get any points for scouting the enemy team and laying down traps.

 

Gun Bourge:

PvP Zully stun [note PvP means you need either 4$, 500 Prem, or 4k Honor jsut to get it] + the SP cost.

70% Stun Channce, 20 second CD. < That's the only stun.

Unless you count the low level stun grenade, with an amazing 30%? Stun chance? and very short range at which you can throw it?

 

Point, Scouts have significantly more reliable stuns then a GunBourge. 

 

The point isn't to get point for laying traps, the point is to lay the traps, to snare + disable a target, making them easier to kill.... How did you not get that? 

[LeWicked]

@Feuer

Your maybe right bout that but the GunBourge are much stronger then Bow scout. Gunbourge could win 1 vs 1 against any class.
I agree with Valakas en bl0b that bowscouts could have a little boost so they could survive on there own.
In CD they are just useless . As far is i see your reply's you think thats the play of bowscout : Run,  set traps , Locate ,
and wait for weak prey? There are non for a bow scout... yea if you max lvled and you kill a 180 lvl ??

And then again ... Who wants to play a class like that? Thats not the fun you want

As i see it now all classes wil kill/rape every bow scout. the cooldown of stealth is to long.
( I even wait till my stealth is reloaded because when not i cant rely only on mvsp . they stun me once ill be dead
in just a sec. )

Point is i also think they could use a little boost. Not to make te OP . But just so they can stand on there own

[Infinity49]

Gun Bourge:

PvP Zully stun [note PvP means you need either 4$, 500 Prem, or 4k Honor jsut to get it] + the SP cost.

70% Stun Channce, 20 second CD. < That's the only stun.

Unless you count the low level stun grenade, with an amazing 30%? Stun chance? and very short range at which you can throw it?

 

Point, Scouts have significantly more reliable stuns then a GunBourge. 

 

The point isn't to get point for laying traps, the point is to lay the traps, to snare + disable a target, making them easier to kill.... How did you not get that? 

 

And GunBourg is overplayed? Oh wait. I rarely see dealer class in arena, and the dealer class definitevely deserve an update for PvP Mode.

The point is to get points in CD. Is traps give points? Is disable a opponent and do teamplay give enough reward to scout class? Nope. Like all the support class, we feel not enough rewarded for our teamplay. 

And i think you never used traps, with the time of activation, you can't just trap in front of you, run and think the opponent will wait the activation and then go in the trap.

You always answer to a part of a post. What about the rest of the post of bl0b? What about the scout's survi? scout's weapon? scout's damages far from mage/champ skills or autoattack from gun/bourg? Or less damages/ap/survi than Xbow scout?

Edited by Infinity49, 13 May 2014 - 02:51 AM.

[Feuer]

You really want me to address the entirety of a class? o.O You wouldn't even read it all. I could make a nice pretty, clean HUGE post for you, and you would only quote the parts that you feel you can pick apart. I'll do it if it's a must for you, but, I see no point in me doing that. 

[Valakas]

 

 

The point isn't to get point for laying traps, the point is to lay the traps, to snare + disable a target, making them easier to kill.... How did you not get that? 

As one of those who uses traps more than other Bow Scouts, in fact I've only seen myself using it so far in CD =.= . The traps are not as convenient as you may thought they are . Once they are laid, if the enemy team moves in a group, even if some of them get caught , as a bow scout, I bet you 100% you won't find it wise to show yourself either. Unless the one who got caught was a Mage with extremely below par MSPD and the rest of his/her team dash ahead without waiting for the mage.  

Laying traps does not guarantee someone will step on it. You can lay them on one side and if the enemy team comes from the other side, the traps are wasted and you cannot remove them to replace them somewhere better. The only good thing I noticed about traps are when 2 teams clashes and are fighting a long battle, a kamikaze bow scout rushes inside the crowd and start spamming the traps hoping to weaken the enemy. Or if you are in the attacking team and the team is weaker than the defender team , then laying traps behind your own line to assist in team retreat .

But to use it and hope for it to be an effective tool in combat ? Thats a big no no . If the one caught by the trap happens to be a Knight, xbow scout, Cleric, champion or a BC, dont even think for one sec to come out laughing hahahaha and shoot them because you wont have the last laugh. 

Since we are talking about this, i also suggest the effectiveness of the traps be enhanced. 

[ChampPower]

I am not going to debate in this topic at all because I got bore over it. All I want to say is think carefully about what you want and what the general population wants. Right now, on both severs, ROSE is half dead, and you can count on how many active players, who still play ROSE because they are not happy of the changes during the last few months. If this trend continue, by the time the new changes come out, some of you may got what you want while most of the population quit. You will find yourself alone in ROSE. If you do not want to believe it, you do not have to, but do not say that I have not warned you.

[teeboyz]

To Feuer

 

You should create a scout and try play it on..Its pointless for you to write all your perfect thoughts and strategies here..Because when it comes for practical..It will never work..

 

Scout cannot kill other class easily because low attack..And as for survival, scout is pretty fragile either..my character scout maxed level has 2.1k ap and 4.5k dodge..maybe its just average stat but i couldn't kill much or survive for long time

 

Each round of CD if i get the chance to kill one people, i will consider myself as lucky..Other than that, its kinda normal to me if i did not get any kill

 

In my opinion bow scout should have piercing ability like xbow scout since bow scout's damage output is damn low..or raise the bow attack power boost on skill tree of the %

Edited by teeboyz, 13 May 2014 - 09:42 PM.

[teeboyz]

And regard of your comments scout should do the scouting opponent in CD..what can we scout?watching them buffing and report it to the team that they are buffing?I wonder what else we could monitor

[Infinity49]

You really want me to address the entirety of a class? o.O You wouldn't even read it all. I could make a nice pretty, clean HUGE post for you, and you would only quote the parts that you feel you can pick apart. I'll do it if it's a must for you, but, I see no point in me doing that. 

No, i will read all of it, and debate where i think there is a matter to debate, agree with you on some points where you convinced me, and trying to convince you on some points I think you are totally wrong. 

But most of your posts is just picking the 2 sentences where you didn't agree and just wipe the rest. What about weaknesses of gunbourg? All the aspects of scout that bl0b said (weapon/survi/ap/xbow)? 

Well doesn't matter at the end, you probably never played scout and do not know a thing about what we feel in CD/PvP against other classes. Theory(crafting) is usefull, but nothing is better than play the class.

[Infinity49]

you probably never played scout 

That was I said. I didn't say you never played, but from what i/we see, you seem do not get what we say. That's why i said probably. Because I do not assume that everybody w/e their knowledge of the game have played X class.

But if you prefer : "From what I read, it seems that you didn't truly played scout in CD/Arena and as i far as i saw, you did not answer Bl0b's post about specifics problems about scout. Theory is a good way to understand the game, but when we actually play the class a lot, we are more able to see what are the problems of this class". 

Sorry if i offended you. I didn't think "probably" would be so much misunderstood.

Edited by Infinity49, 13 May 2014 - 11:59 PM.