22 replies to this topic

[Zipp3r]

Hey guys... I've always been in love with Suras, for me, its by far, the most fun class to play... too bad they are not that good anymore in MVP due the MASSIVE GFist nerf...

 

But I won't give up... I heard that GoH is a great pick for those who still interest in play with sura but isnt into GFist build at the same time, even tho GFist still doing decent on MVP...

 

My question is, whats the BEST Stats/Skill/Equip when you primary focus is Gates of Hell?

 

I have around 5~6b to spend so I'm able to dream a little bit when comes to gear, let your imagination flow!

 

Thanks!

[ka10]

STATS (base stats approximate):  

STR:  90-100 (if you are getting more atk per point with LUK, better not waste more points on STR)

AGI:  50-60 (standard); 70-90 (snapping); note: may need AR scrolls/celermine for 50-60 to get "nice" (180+) aspd; always use awakes

VIT:  95-105 (you may stop at 100 base if you like (save points); i just like VIT)

INT:  90-100 (standard); 60-80 (do not really plan to use gfist at all; save points)

DEX:  90-100

LUK:  21-30 total; 30+ (more status/masq/howl resist)

 

SKILLS (include pre-requisites):

rising dragon 10

gates of hell 10 (hotkey lvl 10 and lvl 4); use converters

tiger cannon 5

power absorb 1

GT: cure 1

windmill 1

cursed circle 5

* hotkey dragon combo, fallen empire if you want to combo

 

EQUIP (hotkey those that you switch alot (like armors, garments, weapons)):  

head:  +12 cat ear beret (kathryne keyron); note: carat maybe if you still want to gfist;  +12 red pom band for mdef +5

mid:  sunglasses/black frame glasses (maya purple)

low:  handkerchief in mouth

 

weapon:  +12(or more) glorious morning star (damage dealer); +9 glorious fist (sacrament effect; optional if your guild has great ABs that sacra you all the time); +12 carga mace (2x abysmal knight) for WoE 2.0 barricades

other weapons:  +9~ bellum flail; +12 bellum claw; 2x club/mace [4] with 8 cards (total) that drain 50 sp as you unequip (cards are:  pitman, laurell weinder, hill wind, death word, red ferus) use when crystallized to drain sp fast (keep switching between the 2 weapons) and cure crystallize; long mace (mdef +8) CC/defense mode

 

shield:  +9~ valkyrja's shield (thara frog); immune shield ok maybe but since a lot of skills can be endowed or have element...better for pvm

 

accessories A:  medal of honor (acolyte); diabolus ring (smokie) // basic

accessories B:  2x chambered RWC pendants (spell 3, spell 3, VIT +3) (1 smokie, 1 kafra blossom) // fast GoH casts, esp w/ strings

accessories C:  3x black rosaries (1 smokie, 2 kafra blossom); switch out smokie when not using hide // defense mode; mdef +30

notes:  horong card for larger ruwach that does not break lex

 

armor:  +9 WoE robes (cards:  marc, pasana, ghostring); in PvP, evil druid is funny on GX who only use enchant poison but don't use in WoE (DB RKs)

garment:  +7~ WoE mufflers (cards:  noxious, deviling/raydric)

shoes:  +9 WoE shoes (firelock soldier); green ferus (VIT +1, don't care about SP)

 

costume:  cake hat (SP +60); tarnished lamp (LUK +10)

 

maximize GoH damage (switch to):  

bradium shield (ant egg)

+9~ enhanced variant shoes (firelock soldier)

+12 turkey on your head (carat)

umbala spirit

+12 fallen angel wing (giant whisper card) (VIT +5, VIT +5, special VIT)

 

i still heavily favor WoE set though, as you go around CCing; but you can switch to offense mode if you like / situation is less hectic

 

"that one card":  tao gunka

*put on WoE Robe if you focus on shura only

 

 

 

 

Edited by ka10, 13 May 2014 - 11:20 AM.

[Zipp3r]

why did you pick agi? I'll be able to do MVP still?

[Zipp3r]

and another question... AGI down is really necessary?

[ka10]

AGI for aspd for less animation delay (faster snaps, pneuma, etc) for WoE

you can stay 50~ agi if you still MvP

 

and yes, decrease AGI for chasing around, annoy those who depend on aspd (melee RKs, ranger (also pneuma vs these))

lvl 1 is fine, but i know some who would get lvl 10 (at the expense of having heal 3 only, not that you would need heal anyways if you have potions)

Edited by ka10, 13 May 2014 - 10:35 AM.

[Zipp3r]

I see... 

 

 

And if you would take a GoH build for doing MOSTLY MVP and then, WoE?

[ka10]

if you plan to MvP with goh, just combo (if you can pot the damage through) and endow; though it's more often for shura to just gfist if you can 1-shot, and even more often, just tank for a gen/etc for higher tier MvPs, or just use a gen for efficiency

*what boss monsters do you plan to MvP?

Edited by ka10, 13 May 2014 - 10:46 AM.

[Zipp3r]

if you plan to MvP with goh, just combo (if you can pot the damage through) and endow; though it's more often for shura to just gfist if you can 1-shot, and even more often, just tank for a gen/etc for higher tier MvPs, or just use a gen for efficiency

*what boss monsters do you plan to MvP?

As much MVP as I can...

 

and yes, Gen is better but jesus, that class is really boring...

[ka10]

haha, i kinda find gen boring too

but anyways, for bosses with lets say, 500k HP or more, it would be quite a hassle, as you would have to get 1-2 (or 3 if you can still pot through) GoHs, snap away, repeat until it dies; and if the boss is comped, the other players (usually gens) will take the MvP;

each GoH would deal 80-130k approx (way less if you are missing due to monster flee), depending on your current/max HP difference, elemental weakness;

combo would increase damage a bit, but you will be taking more damage as you combo through (also combo speed depends on AGI and DEX)

 

if you are doing instance (ie. no competition) there is less pressure, but it will still take a bit more time compared to gens

it will also use up SP pots/items, unless you plan to take it slow and SSA/power absorb somewhere safe before snapping in to throw some GoHs again.  

 

the stats won't really change much (unless you really never plan to use gfist, in which case you can trade away INT for more STR/VIT/DEX)

+12 carga (2x abysmal knight)

glorious suit (+20% HP) is an option

also for garment, you can use +9 heroic backpack (nice bonuses) or even +9 fallen angel wing with spell 6,6,7 for fast casts so you take less damage (hit and run)

oh, don't forget element/racial/boss reducs (ex. alice shield)

Edited by ka10, 11 July 2014 - 04:53 PM.

[pickleee]

Is your primary focus MVP-ing rather than WoE?

[Zipp3r]

Exactly... I wish sura could be more viable for High End MVP... specially those with 2m+ health.

[ka10]

hi-end is still doable with shura; it's just that you have to use gfist, ideally with a specialized build (ex. 120str, 100+ int, balance rest to dex and vit) and have either megingjard(s), bryn, any great SP gears/consumables (also, incubus pet +5% max SP) and/or some setup (ie. w/ a party, GK), and try doing 2-4 shot lexed gfists

 

this is relatively rare though, ever since the 10-sec no-sp-regen cooldown after gfist

...so yeah, not necessarily "viable"/efficient; especially if you are thinking of always just going solo (no lex/support)

 

if you are interested with pure gfist builds (suggest making another shura for this, this way you can have your separate goh-mvp shura for low-end bosses; you can never have too many shuras, haha ;D ), you can always look up here in forums (there is quite a number of detailed posts about gfist builds)

good luck

 

Edited by ka10, 14 May 2014 - 10:58 AM.

[Zipp3r]

I got a +12 CEB with Carat... are you sure with KK is better?

[ilovemilk]

I got a +12 CEB with Carat... are you sure with KK is better?

KK is usually better cast. Faster cast = better chance at taking down your opponent. Carrot will give more SP which in turn yield better damage, but you wont be able to pull off those damages if you can't pull off your attack fast enough.

 

Edited by ilovemilk, 16 May 2014 - 09:04 AM.

[Baturiano]

CEB is only good for gfist and ccing. GoH wise you should get a KK turkey as it affects a major portion of goh damage while CEB only affects melee skills like gfist. So imo if you're going to put a KK card put it on a Turkey then just switch depending on the situation

[Tofu]

CEB does affect GoH, just like a KVM mace does.

The benefit the Turkey has over a CEB is the fact that the increased damage from hp missing cannot be reduced by cranial/raydric/etc. In most cases, a turkey will increase your damage more than a CEB, assuming you have the same current hp in both cases. You lose out on that 16% reduction though, which is a lot.

And carat card essentially adds no damage to GoH. The damage formula is:
 

ATK [(Skill Level x 500) x Caster’s Base Level / 100] % + (Caster’s Max HP - Caster’s Current HP) + (Caster’s SP x Damage modifier) + (Caster’s Base Level x 10)

It's unclear if "Caster's SP" means MAX sp, or CURRENT sp, or CONSUMED sp. Let's for the sake of argument assume the best case: it goes by MAX sp.


Then the additional damage from +150 sp = 450 damage, before WoE reduction, or 225 damage in WoE. Going by current sp would be slightly worse, and only equivalent if you're sitting at full sp. Consumed sp would only add 45 additional damage in WoE.

On top of that, if you rely on sp items like Blue Potions or Strawberries, or anything that heals by a flat amount (modified by INT), then you're only making GoH more expensive to use. Increasing your max sp, without increasing your sp recovery modifier means GoH uses more sp to cast, but potions restore proportionally less.

Carat is strictly for Gfist. If you don't plan on gfisting, you don't need a carat.

[pickleee]

And carat card essentially adds no damage to GoH. The damage formula is:
 

ATK [(Skill Level x 500) x Caster’s Base Level / 100] % + (Caster’s Max HP - Caster’s Current HP) + (Caster’s SP x Damage modifier) + (Caster’s Base Level x 10)

It's unclear if "Caster's SP" means MAX sp, or CURRENT sp, or CONSUMED sp. Let's for the sake of argument assume the best case: it goes by MAX sp.


Then the additional damage from +150 sp = 450 damage, before WoE reduction, or 225 damage in WoE. Going by current sp would be slightly worse, and only equivalent if you're sitting at full sp. Consumed sp would only add 45 additional damage in WoE.

Carat is strictly for Gfist. If you don't plan on gfisting, you don't need a carat.

 

^Kyaaaaaa idol!!!

I can sorta confirm what he said, I've tried to find out if SP affects GoH and TC damage some time ago through alot of tests cause it was bugging me too much as i was tweaking my own build and want it molded as suitable as it can be for myself and long story short uhh...

 

In the end the conclusion was that on average, whether with more SP or less SP, i deal mostly the same damage most of the time with only slight deviations between the 2 conditions and no apparent advantage over another whether with more or less SP.

[Baturiano]

CEB does affect GoH, just like a KVM mace does.

The benefit the Turkey has over a CEB is the fact that the increased damage from hp missing cannot be reduced by cranial/raydric/etc. In most cases, a turkey will increase your damage more than a CEB, assuming you have the same current hp in both cases. You lose out on that 16% reduction though, which is a lot.

And carat card essentially adds no damage to GoH. The damage formula is:
 

ATK [(Skill Level x 500) x Caster’s Base Level / 100] % + (Caster’s Max HP - Caster’s Current HP) + (Caster’s SP x Damage modifier) + (Caster’s Base Level x 10)

It's unclear if "Caster's SP" means MAX sp, or CURRENT sp, or CONSUMED sp. Let's for the sake of argument assume the best case: it goes by MAX sp.


Then the additional damage from +150 sp = 450 damage, before WoE reduction, or 225 damage in WoE. Going by current sp would be slightly worse, and only equivalent if you're sitting at full sp. Consumed sp would only add 45 additional damage in WoE.

On top of that, if you rely on sp items like Blue Potions or Strawberries, or anything that heals by a flat amount (modified by INT), then you're only making GoH more expensive to use. Increasing your max sp, without increasing your sp recovery modifier means GoH uses more sp to cast, but potions restore proportionally less.

Carat is strictly for Gfist. If you don't plan on gfisting, you don't need a carat.

 

The portion on which the CEB increases is pretty much negated if the other guy is wearing a ceb/pom that is the same upgrade levels as you do. The sp damage isnt that much and isnt an issue imo. In most cases you're either over killed or you actually tanked with a significant amount of hp remaining

Edited by Baturiano, 20 May 2014 - 06:48 PM.

[Zen4]

CEB does affect GoH, just like a KVM mace does.

 

Oh, so does it affect all levels of GoH?  I think I may have read somewhere that it only affects 1-4 (melee).  

Also, I thought the ranged aspect of GoH is like an odd case; so like, things that add %ranged damage does not apply with GoH (ex. HBP bonuses, AS card, EA enchants) and that GoH ignores ranged reduction (horn card, noxious card)... or so... which is right/wrong? /confused

Edited by Zen4, 20 May 2014 - 10:09 PM.

[pickleee]

Let's just conclude that both hats, the CEB and the Turkey have their appeal to different playstyles, whether to be more the all-out maximize damage type or the decent damage with more reductions type, whichever that works best for the player and whichever he/she prefers, or even if the player prefers switching both hats in different situations.

Spoiler

Going back to OP, it would seem tht he/she prefers to MVP more than WoE and i would say based on personal experience, GFist is till the way to go for MVPs as opposed to GoH.
GoH and TC is still viable to kill MVPs but usually in most cases it is not as efficient as GFisting the MVP, this of course, also relies on your GFisting Gear.
 
As a reference, Tofu has an excellent video showcasing his own sura solo MVP-ing Nidhoggur's Shadow with only TC and GoH.

The reason i say GFist is more efficient(provided you are geared decently for Gfist) is because it provides a very high burst damage in a very short time and you can whisk away to safety, pot your HP and SP back quickly and come back again for another fist(provided you did not die when attempting the fist)

Compare this to engaging the MVP head to head, toe to toe in a manly face off where you are constantly at a risk of dying and also spending alot of supplies as GoH and TC are very much HP and SP intensive offensive skills, you don't really wanna be using Zen and Power Absorbing and Healing yourself at the same time you are enaging a MVP do you? Unless you are very confident you will not die, in which case this usually means a considerably weaker MVP which can be finished off fairly quickly with GFist.
Then again you'd waste precious time doing so recovering HP and SP this way and assuming you're killing a MVP with comp, you don't wanna be wasting time. You'd also spend alot of HP and SP pots as well as Ygg Seeds or even Ygg Berries trying to tank the damage and at the same time using TC and GoH, you'd spend considerably lower amounts of supplies.
 
tl;dr Using GFist to MVP would be safer, quicker and cheaper(on supplies)

Let me try to get screenies and recordings of my own Sura doing a MVP summoner later with GoH/TC compared to GFist.
Are you sure you want to use only GoH/TC on MVPs?
As tht is what you stated, if i understand correctly, to build a sura with primary focus on GoH but rather than PvP and WoE with it, you'd prefer to MVP with it and gear accordingly to maximize its damage on MVPs?

EDIT: Oh hey Daniel, TI4 soon, excited?

Edited by pickleee, 20 May 2014 - 10:50 PM.

[Baturiano]

6 million prize pool baby woooooooooo

[ka10]

It's unclear if "Caster's SP" means MAX sp, or CURRENT sp, or CONSUMED sp. Let's for the sake of argument assume the best case: it goes by MAX sp.

whenever i do some gear testing with GoH, i always notice the damage goes down as current SP goes down (all other factors kept constant, including spheres (+3 atk each))

though i wouldn't call my tests that intensive; and that the damage difference with SP is insignificant anways

[Baturiano]

Exactly it's very miniscule, I'm also pretty sure its affected by maximum sp from my tests.