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Classic: Patch notes for June 4th 2014


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#26 Razo

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 07:55 AM

I got destroyed morroc.. can't do dandellions request...

(My morroc castle is empty)


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#27 aulbath

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 10:47 AM

Well Classic will die at some point ,maybe before or when new world comes, Bad updates, the new update is wrong/bugged and messes the last update, like the abyss spot,waste of time and bmx3, every time... We make suggestions, not even a response, "we cant because of this or that", nothing, in twitchs we do questions, and the most important ones, that everyone wants to hear , you dont answer, this is a waste of time, of money, will you make a free transfer to renewal when classic dies?


Edited by aulbath, 29 May 2014 - 10:56 AM.

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#28 squirreI

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 12:24 PM

20% increase is negligible.

Let's see, if the drop rate is 5% right now, then 20% of that is 1. That is making 5% into 6% which is... not even noticeable. The drop rate is likely not even 5%, it's probably more like 3% or so. 20% increase from 3% would make the drop rate 3.6%. That's nothing.

 

Needs to be at LEAST double. Please. Dear God please.

 

Don't do what you just did. 20% is 20%. You're trying to make the argument that 3.6% is still small compared to 3.0%.. That's 20%. There will be 20% more boxes out there. I believe there is an amount of supplies that you need to reach for woe and going over that is going into extra supplies. Do you want the same amount of farming for one woe to give you an amount of supplies for 2 woes? It's exactly like how good 2x exp events are. 2x exp is a little bit overkill. 2x exp with 3x manuals and 1.5x server rates is overkill. (edit: oh don't forget 1.5x for vip)

 

I guess I haven't really thought about it too much, but this woe supply box system has increased the ability to obtain supplies dramatically. Getting like 400 of an item from 1 box is pretty big. Maybe some people need to put in their time for those supplies that they oh so enjoy wasting.. I like the idea of being smarter about supply usage. Also more whites out there adds to one's ability to use autopot?

 

So to argue against what you're saying, no 20% is not negligible.


Edited by squirreI, 29 May 2014 - 12:29 PM.

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#29 Xellie

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 12:41 PM

Don't do what you just did. 20% is 20%. You're trying to make the argument that 3.6% is still small compared to 3.0%.. That's 20%. There will be 20% more boxes out there. I believe there is an amount of supplies that you need to reach for woe and going over that is going into extra supplies. Do you want the same amount of farming for one woe to give you an amount of supplies for 2 woes? It's exactly like how good 2x exp events are. 2x exp is a little bit overkill. 2x exp with 3x manuals and 1.5x server rates is overkill. (edit: oh don't forget 1.5x for vip)

 

I guess I haven't really thought about it too much, but this woe supply box system has increased the ability to obtain supplies dramatically. Getting like 400 of an item from 1 box is pretty big. Maybe some people need to put in their time for those supplies that they oh so enjoy wasting.. I like the idea of being smarter about supply usage. Also more whites out there adds to one's ability to use autopot?

 

So to argue against what you're saying, no 20% is not negligible.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about (unusual for you I will admit, but icewall and AI mechanics are not guild supply logistics). If an average player gets 15 boxes per gum and that is increased by 20% is an extra 3 boxes per gum MAYBE. (rng permitting) so it's really next to no reduction in the amount of hunting needing to be done.

 

What I have learned over the last couple of weeks is that the more people who farm simultaneously.... the longer it takes (due to spawn). When I'm in GD solo last week before the buff I was getting between 18 and 27 boxes per gum. Since tuesday I've been getting between 7 and 13 BECAUSE OF OTHER PLAYERS IN GUILD (those out of guild I kill and KS)

 

so tell me more about how I should make all my guildmembers go down there. We're punished for having multiple people play at once.

 

Would the next person who doesn't supply any guilds/supplies a guild that doesn't even hit double digits like to tell me more about how I should get more people to hunt despite the fact we have a rota of 17 individuals working on stuff? (Some self supply on top of that)

 

edit: Don't you dare accuse us of autopot. That is not the problem, believe me.


Edited by Xellie, 29 May 2014 - 12:42 PM.

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#30 squirreI

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 01:03 PM

You have no idea what you're talking about (unusual for you I will admit, but icewall and AI mechanics are not guild supply logistics). If an average player gets 15 boxes per gum and that is increased by 20% is an extra 3 boxes per gum MAYBE. (rng permitting) so it's really next to no reduction in the amount of hunting needing to be done.

 

What I have learned over the last couple of weeks is that the more people who farm simultaneously.... the longer it takes (due to spawn). When I'm in GD solo last week before the buff I was getting between 18 and 27 boxes per gum. Since tuesday I've been getting between 7 and 13 BECAUSE OF OTHER PLAYERS IN GUILD (those out of guild I kill and KS)

 

so tell me more about how I should make all my guildmembers go down there. We're punished for having multiple people play at once.

 

Would the next person who doesn't supply any guilds/supplies a guild that doesn't even hit double digits like to tell me more about how I should get more people to hunt despite the fact we have a rota of 17 individuals working on stuff? (Some self supply on top of that)

 

edit: Don't you dare accuse us of autopot. That is not the problem, believe me.

One of my argument is that 20% is not negligible. Am I unsure there?

 

No I do not supply guilds, but I stand by my opinion that the woe supply box system was a dramatic increase. If more people means less boxes per person then you can take turns with people. I highly doubt that there's someone in the guild dungeon 24/7, but if that's the case then I agree with your request for the higher percentage. But actually what I think you should be requesting is instant spawns from the GMs. The only reason I could see there being a decrease in boxes found is if the spawns aren't instant. If I'm wrong there tell me. I still want there to be less supplies in woe. You're pushing for classic RO right? Back in the day, people didn't use very many supplies that I can remember.

 

I will accuse anybody I want of autopot and don't tell me not to. Notice I said "one's ability to use autopot", not anyone specific. That percentage of people exists does it not? When people can cheat without anyone finding out they're going to take advantage of it. That's just the way some people are. And if you want my opinion on any specific group... My opinion is that if there are any more legit guilds out there, Valhalla is definitely one of them.

 

Also some might argue that autopot makes you use less supplies because it pots perfectly for you. To that I say you probably should have died 50 potions ago when either you couldn't pot so fast or you didn't want to waste supplies (which should be a thing)


Edited by squirreI, 29 May 2014 - 01:06 PM.

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#31 iamvrypwrful

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 01:05 PM

20% is 20%


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#32 Xellie

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 01:13 PM

One of my argument is that 20% is not negligible. Am I unsure there?

 

No I do not supply guilds, but I stand by my opinion that the woe supply box system was a dramatic increase. If more people means less boxes per person then you can take turns with people. I highly doubt that there's someone in the guild dungeon 24/7, but if that's the case then I agree with your request for the higher percentage. But actually what I think you should be requesting is instant spawns from the GMs. The only reason I could see there being a decrease in boxes found is if the spawns aren't instant. If I'm wrong there tell me. I still want there to be less supplies in woe. You're pushing for classic RO right? Back in the day, people didn't use very many supplies that I can remember.

 

I will accuse anybody I want of autopot and don't tell me not to. Notice I said "one's ability to use autopot", not anyone specific. That percentage of people exists does it not? When people can cheat without anyone finding out they're going to take advantage of it. That's just the way some people are. And if you want my opinion on any specific group... My opinion is that if there are any more legit guilds out there, Valhalla is definitely one of them.

 

Also some might argue that autopot makes you use less supplies because it pots perfectly for you. To that I say you probably should have died 50 potions ago when either you couldn't pot so fast or you didn't want to waste supplies (which should be a thing)

 

I would say it is negligible based on the fact it won't decrease hunting time.

 

You wanna compare this to classic RO? OK. Here we go

Back on CLASSIC RO we didn't have to outpot Nodelay bs or attempt to out dps autopot.

Back on CLASSIC RO there was a low level population to buy supplies from.

Back on CLASSIC RO there were bots to buy from (sad but true)

Back on CLASSIC RO there weren't freebie econs springing up every WoE.

 

On this RO we have to compete against bots that don't sell for one. That isn't going away. This isn't old RO. It's time to move on instead of sitting around on a server  that is half working like classic and half some fantasy land. It's too late for this to be like the old server. If they had kept on top of the bots at the beginning, it'd be a thing. Perhaps if there weren't infinite blue pots from BG... ! If people wanna autopot infinite items, BG items are FREE. Especially when certain people kindly set it up for farming at a rate of +500 badges an hour. Over 10k white pots per hour in optimal farming? AHahahahaha tell me more about autopot and how GD boxes matter.

 

If I was leading guild on the old server I'd be buying all this crap. Who is gonna hunt it... ? Maybe the plethora of invisible newbies will hunt it.

 

I'm not trying to be arrogant but you don't WoE very much so I'm not sure if you have a handle on the current situation and how supply usage affects the big fights. Playing cheap and not using many supplies isn't an option. Maybe it was for Chaos Flame, but I very kindly didn't attack them (in part because of YOUR Asprika) but it could have been a different story.


Edited by Xellie, 29 May 2014 - 01:16 PM.

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#33 Campitor

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 01:14 PM

We will be doing a restart tonight to fix Dandelion's Request, the quest we put in was the same as was originally implemented back in the day. Unfortunately the normal reset timer did not properly go off. We will be adding the ability to reset it on the fly (For us so future restarts to fix will not be required).
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#34 Campitor

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 01:42 PM

OP Updated.


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#35 squirreI

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 02:13 PM

I would say it is negligible based on the fact it won't decrease hunting time.

 

You wanna compare this to classic RO? OK. Here we go

Back on CLASSIC RO we didn't have to outpot Nodelay bs or attempt to out dps autopot.

Back on CLASSIC RO there was a low level population to buy supplies from.

Back on CLASSIC RO there were bots to buy from (sad but true)

Back on CLASSIC RO there weren't freebie econs springing up every WoE.

 

On this RO we have to compete against bots that don't sell for one. That isn't going away. This isn't old RO. It's time to move on instead of sitting around on a server  that is half working like classic and half some fantasy land. It's too late for this to be like the old server. If they had kept on top of the bots at the beginning, it'd be a thing. Perhaps if there weren't infinite blue pots from BG... ! If people wanna autopot infinite items, BG items are FREE. Especially when certain people kindly set it up for farming at a rate of +500 badges an hour. Over 10k white pots per hour in optimal farming? AHahahahaha tell me more about autopot and how GD boxes matter.

 

If I was leading guild on the old server I'd be buying all this crap. Who is gonna hunt it... ? Maybe the plethora of invisible newbies will hunt it.

 

I'm not trying to be arrogant but you don't WoE very much so I'm not sure if you have a handle on the current situation and how supply usage affects the big fights. Playing cheap and not using many supplies isn't an option. Maybe it was for Chaos Flame, but I very kindly didn't attack them (in part because of YOUR Asprika) but it could have been a different story.

Okay whether we should have more supplies or not is a more complicated issue and based more on opinion and I'm going to get away from that I guess. And part of me is on the side of having more supplies too at the same time.. Whatever.

But don't tell me 20% is not 20%. That's just wrong. 20% increase will decrease your hunting time by 16.67%, not this 0% you're telling me.


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#36 azertygf

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 02:17 PM

Never satisfied when that touches your guild interest.

Back in my day people killed mandragora for supplies they bomber, i'm really to old. 


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#37 Hrishi

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 02:40 PM

I don't remember ever doing that. What I do remember is MvPing for zeny and then being able to buy supplies off the market to supply my guild.


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#38 Themes

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 03:01 PM

So were you guys unable to claim a newer client from kRO for stuff like stat orbs? Not sure if you said anything about it while I was gone.

 

Also please consider removing the Supply Boxes from Wizards in Bios and put the instant spawns back (I assume you'd use the supply boxes as a reason not to put them back in now that you're increasing their drop rate), thanks.


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#39 Xellie

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 03:06 PM

Okay whether we should have more supplies or not is a more complicated issue and based more on opinion and I'm going to get away from that I guess. And part of me is on the side of having more supplies too at the same time.. Whatever.

But don't tell me 20% is not 20%. That's just wrong. 20% increase will decrease your hunting time by 16.67%, not this 0% you're telling me.

 

10% made a difference of zero hours and zero minutes.

 

 


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#40 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 03:42 PM

Back in my day people botted mandragora for supplies they bomber, then we bought them. i'm not as old as I think. 

 

Fixed.


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#41 Xellie

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 04:10 PM

back in my day everyone in vh hunted 100 stems and 100 spores every week to supply our bomber with its bombs each week.

 

and we sold the leftovers for profit.


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#42 squirreI

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 04:42 PM

10% made a difference of zero hours and zero minutes.

Then it wasn't implemented or you just got unlucky. Numbers don't lie.


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#43 Xellie

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 04:55 PM

Then it wasn't implemented or you just got unlucky. Numbers don't lie.

 

I told you, if it's really a 10% increase of a 3% drop to 3.3% thats like 1-3 boxes extra per gum.

 

It's not a wide enough margin to differentiate it from the RNG.... and it's still a ridiculous amount of work.
 


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#44 squirreI

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 05:05 PM

I told you, if it's really a 10% increase of a 3% drop to 3.3% thats like 1-3 boxes extra per gum.

 

It's not a wide enough margin to differentiate it from the RNG.... and it's still a ridiculous amount of work.
 

I'll agree that 10% is small. It's not what you want but it's not negligible either. 20% is good, but I guess it's up to the people actually hunting them more than the ones that are not.

 

edit: and you didn't tell me though. You just said that it made zero difference, which is not true.


Edited by squirreI, 29 May 2014 - 05:08 PM.

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#45 Xellie

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 06:01 PM

What I'm saying is its not enough of a difference to be one gum less per person.

 

Unless of course you'd log out part way through gum instead of finishing it then iunno thats stoopid


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#46 squirreI

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 06:53 PM

 

 

If I had to guess at the current rate of supply boxes I'd say 5%... So 10% upped it to a whole 5.5%. 20% is going to be 6%... Which still isn't enough. 50% increase, to 7.5%, would be acceptable!

I didn't see this before. Refer to my post quoted below. 50% is drastic. I don't know if people realize this. Just think, if the server's able to be supplied (as well as it is) with what it has now, what will it be when they obtain 50% more supplies?

 

I'm sorry to keep speaking up about this as someone who's never supplied a guild, but isn't it supposed to take work? If nobody speaks up about this then I see it verging on free supplies for everyone because everyone is lazy (you can call me a hypocrite).

 

I understand that there are multiple issues here though. Issues like people being busy, lower droprates will make people turn to botting. So I guess what I should be asking is, how many hours of farming between all members of the guild does it take to supply for 1 woe? The balance just has to be found.

 

Is there a list of the possible items to obtain from these? Also an official drop rate on the box would be very nice as well.

 

Don't do what you just did. 20% is 20%. You're trying to make the argument that 3.6% is still small compared to 3.0%.. That's 20%. There will be 20% more boxes out there. I believe there is an amount of supplies that you need to reach for woe and going over that is going into extra supplies. Do you want the same amount of farming for one woe to give you an amount of supplies for 2 woes? It's exactly like how good 2x exp events are. 2x exp is a little bit overkill. 2x exp with 3x manuals and 1.5x server rates is overkill. (edit: oh don't forget 1.5x for vip)

 

So to argue against what you're saying, no 20% is not negligible.

 


Edited by squirreI, 29 May 2014 - 06:54 PM.

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#47 Xellie

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 07:00 PM

it takes over 40 man hours to supply Valhalla through farming boxes at an efficient rate.

 

edit: 40hours for one weekend, since the WoEs are essentially back to back we have to do all our potting in one shot too, which can take a combined 8-16 hours depending on what we expect for that WoE.

 

This does not include EDP mats, potting edp, convertors, proof pots or speed pots or blues (for which we ideally try to do bg for but require time for that too)


Edited by Xellie, 29 May 2014 - 07:01 PM.

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#48 Ralis

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 07:25 PM

Alright, I'm done beating around the bush here.

 

1. Supply boxes have introduced a nice new cash cow, which is one reason why I feel the rates won't be upped much. It costs roughly $100 PER WEEK in HE Gum to supply our guild. Using Gum should be a luxury, NOT A NECESSITY.

 

2. People keep saying supplying a guild is supposed to take time. YES, AND IT ALREADY TAKES HOURS OF WORK TO BREW POTIONS, BOMBS, EDP, ETC. Way back when the game had the population (and the bots) to not require supply farming, you simply bought brewing materials off the market. It's not possible on Classic! There isn't the population for it, there's not the economy for it, there are no longer the bots for it! The supply boxes were a great addition to make up for this, but we're still going from literally zero hours of hunting every week to forty.

 

3. This "excess supplies" crap is just that: crap. No one in this friggen game is going to hunt for more boxes for some magical amount of "extra" supplies that's actually going to have any change in the outcome of siege. I want to spend a minimal amount of time down in that dungeon getting what we need, and only what we need, for that week. We're not asking for the boxes to be a 90% drop rate so that we can run around siege pressing our potion buttons for the entire two hours. You use potions during a fight, and I have yet to hear of the entire guild running out of potions for a siege as it is. Hell, I usually end up with excess potions in storage every week despite the fights we have, so I don't see what difference "excess supplies" are going to make other than me not having to waste hours of my life down in that godforsaken guild dungeon.

 

All we're asking is to spend less time hunting for supplies and more time playing other aspects of the game. Right now, all this supply drama is doing is causing a lot of people unneeded stress and anger. Some of us are angry at people for not helping, others are angry because they feel they're being harassed to help out, and all any of us want to do is play the damn game together, not spend every hour outside of WoE preparing for WoE.

 

/rant


Edited by Ralis, 29 May 2014 - 07:26 PM.

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#49 Xellie

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 07:29 PM

Well it would take over 60 hours without gum~

 

that sounds like fun

 

This isn't even pay2win, it's pay2takepart


Edited by Xellie, 29 May 2014 - 07:29 PM.

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#50 aulbath

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 07:33 PM

still waiting for the reset man,whats happening,......., i spend all the M***puppy day doing the quest to realize some one the final steps are broken, i dont wanna start over again man, it take so many time to find a party there, now that most of ppl went for quest B, will be harder to find 5 party man....


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