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#26 Greven79

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 04:23 AM

i am thinking abt evasion too. this skill is so useless that nobody takes it or nobody cares abt it.

since like we got no heal/hide, why not add movement speed to it for pvp purposes.

 

lvl 1 = 4% evasion + 8% movement

lvl 2 = 8% evasion + 12% movement

lvl 3 = 12% evasion + 16% movement

lvl 4 = 16% evasion + 20% movement

lvl 5 = 20% evasion + 24% movement

 

so atleast after using all our skill we can run around to safety.

 

There you touch the holy grail of rangers and assassins. I remember the Warriors demanding something similar and that caused quite a squabbling.

 

Usually, every class ought to be unique, should contribute a special ability to the group and take up a certain role. On contrast, every class also must be worst at something and having a hard time perform a certain different role.

 

When I talk to monks or about monks, it seems they that noone can really make a decision about what should be their share.

 

A high damage guillotine fist (including a cooldown reset) f.e. makes the monk quite capable of one-shotting enemies. But that puts the monk in rivalry towards Assassins, maybe towards Rogues and Rangers as well. Others might see him as a fast & dodgy class, but this 'part' is also currently taken up by the Assassin and Ranger. And a third group might see him as a martial art expert, capable of fighting multiple enemies, maybe parrying most of their strikes.

 

If multiple classes get the same or similar bonus, there's no specialty in it, but also no real advantage. And that brings me to your suggestion:

 

Of course we can give the monk a speed bonus, but keep in mind that this class can easily achieve a 85%+ defense rate. So the monk isn't really a squishy class, right? In addition, the monk also got a 5sec knock down that can be resetted with Summon Spirit Sphere for a total of 10sec! And because that knock down can be used from a distance, the monk can win a lot of duels, just by disabling the enemy first.

 

All that doesn't mean that you can't give the monk a temporary movement boost, but other classes could demand similar things as well. Lately, the Rogue got a movement debuff although he is the master of hide and can use smoke bomb + Dark Illusion for a teleport... something that is completely outside my understanding. Warriors demanded to get an auto-aiming Battle Leap, etc. etc.

 

The result could be that every class has a speed boost, every class an auto-aim stun and every class a heal skill. Doesn't sound fun. That's why I usally ask people to tell me, how they envision a given class... 'cause Knights and Wizards f.e. seem to have the same problem defining at what they're best and more importantly at what they're worst.

 

And on contrast, that's why I sometimes propose highly unlikely changes (f.e. for the Sorcerer) to show how I envision a certain class.


Edited by Greven79, 26 August 2014 - 04:34 AM.

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#27 Telovi

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 04:54 AM

There you touch the holy grail of rangers and assassins. I remember the Warriors demanding something similar and that caused quite a squabbling.

 

Usually, every class ought to be unique, should contribute a special ability to the group and take up a certain role. On contrast, every class also must be worst at something and having a hard time perform a certain different role.

 

When I talk to monks or about monks, it seems they that noone can really make a decision about what should be their share.

 

A high damage guillotine fist (including a cooldown reset) f.e. makes the monk quite capable of one-shotting enemies. But that puts the monk in rivalry towards Assassins, maybe towards Rogues and Rangers as well. Others might see him as a fast & dodgy class, but this 'part' is also currently taken up by the Assassin and Ranger. And a third group might see him as a martial art expert, capable of fighting multiple enemies, maybe parrying most of their strikes.

 

If multiple classes get the same or similar bonus, there's no specialty in it, but also no real advantage. And that brings me to your suggestion:

 

Of course we can give the monk a speed bonus, but keep in mind that this class can easily achieve a 85%+ defense rate. So the monk isn't really a squishy class, right? In addition, the monk also got a 5sec knock down that can be resetted with Summon Spirit Sphere for a total of 10sec! And because that knock down can be used from a distance, the monk can win a lot of duels, just by disabling the enemy first.

 

All that doesn't mean that you can't give the monk a temporary movement boost, but other classes could demand similar things as well. Lately, the Rogue got a movement debuff although he is the master of hide and can use smoke bomb + Dark Illusion for a teleport... something that is completely outside my understanding. Warriors demanded to get an auto-aiming Battle Leap, etc. etc.

 

The result could be that every class has a speed boost, every class an auto-aim stun and every class a heal skill. Doesn't sound fun. That's why I usally ask people to tell me, how they envision a given class... 'cause Knights and Wizards f.e. seem to have the same problem defining at what they're best and more importantly at what they're worst.

 

And on contrast, that's why I sometimes propose highly unlikely changes (f.e. for the Sorcerer) to show how I envision a certain class.

 

Good point.

Monk are like bullet train: Rapid, Reliable, Robust

Anyone that wants to sit on a limousine or a cab shouldn't go for a train. 


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#28 3069121108025959500

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 07:56 PM

There you touch the holy grail of rangers and assassins. I remember the Warriors demanding something similar and that caused quite a squabbling.

 

Usually, every class ought to be unique, should contribute a special ability to the group and take up a certain role. On contrast, every class also must be worst at something and having a hard time perform a certain different role.

 

When I talk to monks or about monks, it seems they that noone can really make a decision about what should be their share.

 

A high damage guillotine fist (including a cooldown reset) f.e. makes the monk quite capable of one-shotting enemies. But that puts the monk in rivalry towards Assassins, maybe towards Rogues and Rangers as well. Others might see him as a fast & dodgy class, but this 'part' is also currently taken up by the Assassin and Ranger. And a third group might see him as a martial art expert, capable of fighting multiple enemies, maybe parrying most of their strikes.

 

If multiple classes get the same or similar bonus, there's no specialty in it, but also no real advantage. And that brings me to your suggestion:

 

Of course we can give the monk a speed bonus, but keep in mind that this class can easily achieve a 85%+ defense rate. So the monk isn't really a squishy class, right? In addition, the monk also got a 5sec knock down that can be resetted with Summon Spirit Sphere for a total of 10sec! And because that knock down can be used from a distance, the monk can win a lot of duels, just by disabling the enemy first.

 

All that doesn't mean that you can't give the monk a temporary movement boost, but other classes could demand similar things as well. Lately, the Rogue got a movement debuff although he is the master of hide and can use smoke bomb + Dark Illusion for a teleport... something that is completely outside my understanding. Warriors demanded to get an auto-aiming Battle Leap, etc. etc.

 

The result could be that every class has a speed boost, every class an auto-aim stun and every class a heal skill. Doesn't sound fun. That's why I usally ask people to tell me, how they envision a given class... 'cause Knights and Wizards f.e. seem to have the same problem defining at what they're best and more importantly at what they're worst.

 

And on contrast, that's why I sometimes propose highly unlikely changes (f.e. for the Sorcerer) to show how I envision a certain class.

 

so where do we excel in and in what way?

 


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#29 Guigui

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:15 PM

Sure we have summon spirit sphere but our skills have soooooooooooooooooo much cool down. id say thats our downfall. once SSS is down your pretty much helpless for 30 seconds XD   ( asura and fury explosion of course)


Edited by Guigui, 03 September 2014 - 12:16 PM.

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#30 3069121108025959500

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 03:53 PM

thats why we need a short burst of speed to get out when all our skills are in cd.


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#31 Greven79

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 03:33 PM

so where do we excel in and in what way?

 

I already gave quite a few examples of where the monk excels:

  • High damage G-Fist plus a cooldown reset allows for one-shots // two-shots
  • 5sec auto-aim/teleport stun without charge point requirement plus CD reset
  • resettable protection (Ki-Protection) puts him ahead of other tank classes
  • 90%+ defense rate without Iron Skin or VIT focus (Himmelmez)

The monk was and still is one of the best if not THE best main tank in the game.

 

The disadvantages:

  • No heals
  • No stealth
  • No speed buff
  • No speed debuff
  • No superior AoE
  • Tremendous cooldown

 

That's the list, but that doesn't mean that everyone likes it.

 

Other systems like Dungeons-&-Dragons f.e. defined the monk as a striker (a.k.a. DPS class) with a high mobility and an outstanding attack speed. It's quite the same in World of Warcraft, although they declare him as a tank/melee/healer class since they also mixed in a brewmaster and mistweaver (makes me think about Unstable Doping). In Leaque of Legends, it's a 'tanky melee' class that focuses on a high attack speed, a teleport strike and a diabling finisher. His unique special is to disallow cover/stealth.

 

My personal idea of a monk is dependant on a proper concept of the remaining classes.


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#32 3069121108025959500

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 03:47 AM

everyone can achieve 90% def with refine :p_sad:

those other things you said doesnt matter if you got lockdown by frozen or some cc

 

 

anyway off topic - i dueled with a sorc and once frozen i cant do anything abt it. any suggestion fighting a sorc?


Edited by 3069121108025959500, 05 September 2014 - 03:49 AM.

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#33 Guigui

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 04:43 AM

 

anyway off topic - i dueled with a sorc and once frozen i cant do anything abt it. any suggestion fighting a sorc?

 

when i fight sorcs' if they freeze me before i can lightning walk (wich is rare since lightning walk is instant blink) i use Protection KI and hope i survive long enough for frozen to end so i can lightning walk on his arse and you know the rest.


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#34 Greven79

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 03:30 PM

everyone can achieve 90% def with refine :p_sad:

those other things you said doesnt matter if you got lockdown by frozen or some cc

 

I doubt that my priest would achieve 90% defense rate with refine ;)

 

And of course, everything is useless if you get stunned or frozen, but luckily the monk will most likely be the first to stun. So it's more a statement for other classes who face a monk.

 

when i fight sorcs' if they freeze me before i can lightning walk (wich is rare since lightning walk is instant blink) i use Protection KI and hope i survive long enough for frozen to end so i can lightning walk on his arse and you know the rest.

 

QFT.

 

First of all, if it's a duel and both sides start fair, chances are quite low that you will be frozen first. Frost Diver has still quite an animation time. Except for the Judex-Stun (and maybe Shadow Assault), the monk teleport is quite the fastest cc out there.
 

Since the frozen state still allows you act, I would pop Ki-Protection, hurl a TSS or two to get some  Inner Spheres.


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#35 3069121108025959500

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:08 PM

I doubt that my priest would achieve 90% defense rate with refine ;)

 

And of course, everything is useless if you get stunned or frozen, but luckily the monk will most likely be the first to stun. So it's more a statement for other classes who face a monk.

 

 

QFT.

 

First of all, if it's a duel and both sides start fair, chances are quite low that you will be frozen first. Frost Diver has still quite an animation time. Except for the Judex-Stun (and maybe Shadow Assault), the monk teleport is quite the fastest cc out there.
 

Since the frozen state still allows you act, I would pop Ki-Protection, hurl a TSS or two to get some  Inner Spheres.

 

lol i meant all the other tanks of course


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