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Tiger Cannon Sura Guide


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#1 Dreimdal

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:48 PM

1. Introduction
2. Gears
3. Testimonial
4. Technique
5. Skills and Stats
6. Additional Notes
7. Maximize the Effectiveness
8. WoE Usage
9. Parting Words


1. Introduction
If you're trying to level up a sura through grinding, and don't just want to leech tank/mob snap pull your way to victory in gramps TI, then the best leveling skill for sura these days is probably tiger cannon, due to the lightning ride cast time nerf a few years ago. The only downside is that you need to figure out how to combo it, because that will roughly double its attack power and thus make it a viable leveling skill even as you get into the higher levels of 130+. Luckily I'm here to help you figure out how to combo it. If you're a Sura who's already 150 and wants help figuring out how to combo, then skip to section 4. Technique below.

2. Gears
Now, before I go any further, I need to warn you that Tiger Cannon uses copious amounts of HP and SP. If you've leveled other classes or other builds of Sura, you'll likely be a bit taken aback by just how much HP/SP is consumed while leveling. So, unless you have an unlimited amount of HP and SP recovery items, you absolutely need a +9 Rideword or +9 Vanargand helm. In addition, for more HP and SP recovery, you may also want a +7 or better Carga Mace with 2 Hunterfly cards, and optionally a Nidhoggur's Shadow Garb with Raydric or Deviling Card. This is by no means a 'cheap' class to level. Want that? Go with Ranger.

3. Testimonial
TC can be very powerful. To give an example: In the past, one time I borrowed a Tao armor and one Megingjard, had a +12 Glorious Morning Star, and Str+Vit +20 foods, and HP increase large, plus Wind Endow, to combo one-shot Howard Alt-Eisen mobs in gramps TI.

We had a sura in mental strength pulling mobs to us with Eddga shoes and once she got close, I'd pick out a Howard from the mob and Dragon Combo on it, followed by Fallen Empire and Tiger Cannon, and it killed the whole mob of 20+ monsters. This was way back in Autumn of last year. http://irowiki.org/w...hive#October_23

I'm not saying this just to boast "lolol, i can 1-shot mobs of Bio3 monsters, lol" but to demonstrate how powerful the skill can be. Even without all of that fancy stuff, no god items or mvp cards, you can combo one-shot mobs in Scarab Hall, once you're a sufficiently high level, and as long as your gears aren't complete garbage (in which case you have no business making a TC sura).

Do you know of any other class capable of one-shotting a mob of Bio3 monsters?

4. Technique (i.e. How to Perform the Combo)
It might seem tricky at first but the key is in learning the timing between the first two parts of the combo: Dragon Combo & Fallen Empire. One has to avoid button mashing. It's one press for each of those two skills. You can get away with button mashing on the last part of the combo, tiger cannon, but if you do it on the first two parts, DC & FE, then you won't pull off the combo correctly. You'll know you've performed the combo correctly when TC has no cast time bar (in other words, when properly combo'ed, tiger cannon will be instantly casted following fallen empire).

The timing of button presses is determined solely by the formula: 1.3 - (AGI x 0.004) - (DEX x 0.002)  (credit to Zayaan, et al for the correction).

So here's how to practice the combo. First find a monster that has high HP, but which doesn't hit very hard. For example, a Dragon Egg, which won't hit you at all: http://db.irowiki.or...ster-info/1721/
You want something strong enough to survive at least a few Dragon Combo plus Fallen Empire hits from you, so you'll be able to practice a few times on it before it dies. And then you can move onto the next one to practice some more.

Once you get your monster, click Dragon Combo on it and then mash Fallen Empire as fast as you can. Yes, that means you can't do tiger cannon, but that's okay. Now, I know I said earlier not to button mash on Fallen Empire, but the point of doing this is to learn the timing between Dragon Combo and Fallen Empire; we're not worried about Tiger Cannon yet. So keep doing DC, then mash FE, and watch the screen and listen for the interval of time between each move. You might have to do this only a dozen times, or you might have to do it over a hundred times. Either way, be patient about it and memorize the timing.

Do note that each time your Agi and/or Dex changes, you have to relearn the timing between Dragon Combo and Fallen Empire. That's why it's good to learn it for a variety of Agi/Dex combinations, so that you'll be able to combo under different circumstances, for instance, if you get hit with Agility Down, like from an Agav if you happen to be fighting those, or if you use an Agility or Dexterity food.

So anyhow, once you have memorized the timing for DC and FE, it's time to add in Tiger Cannon. At this point, you stop button mashing on Fallen Empire. You don't need to do that anymore if you've memorized the timing. You press Dragon Combo one time, wait the correct memorized interval of time based on your particular agi/dex amounts, then press Fallen Empire one time, and then you can mash Tiger Cannon all you want.

You might not get the combo on your first try, even if you think you had the timing down correctly. Just keep trying and make sure that both Dragon Combo and Fallen Empire buttons are pressed one time on your keyboard. Make tiny adjustments as necessary. You might not realize at first that you're pressing the Fallen Empire button too quickly or too slowly. It can take a lot of practice to get it down. So just keep practicing until you can perform the full combo consistently.

Eventually, you'll also get a feel for the timing between Fallen Empire and Tiger Cannon. Once that happens, you can stop mashing Tiger Cannon if you so choose. Then you can just do one button press for each part of the combo DC->FE->TC. It doesn't really matter whether you mash TC or not, as it won't affect whether the combo is successful, but hey, it might extend the life of the that key on your keyboard. Plus it's nice to have the full combo ingrained into your muscle memory without having to rely on button mashing at any stage of the combo.

This combo can also be done with Gates of Hell. You just take out Tiger Cannon and substitute GoH in its place. DC->FE->GoH. Just as with Tiger Cannon, it roughly doubles the power, like a free Lex Aeterna, and it makes GoH instant cast.

5. Skills and Stats
I'm sure there's a lot of debate about which build works best, and blah blah blah. I'll put a stat build here and you can choose whether or not to use it. Discuss with your friends, seek advice from other Suras, etc. With that said, please DON'T turn this thread into a stat/skill nitpicking debate. I'm not going to get involved with such posts. I'm just presenting some advice and you can decide whether or not to use it.

I'll only put stats for base levels 109 and 150. How you get there and what you do in between those levels is your business, although I'd recommend getting Str to at least 75~80 and Vit to 95~100 as early as you can, after you get past base 109. Then worry about Dex, Int, and Luk after that.

109 || Str: 62 | Agi 75 | Vit 77 | Int 50 | Dex: 60 | Luk: 14
150 || Str: 90 | Agi 75 | Vit 110 | Int 80 | Dex: 74 | Luk: 22

And here's a skill build: http://irowiki.org/~...GAdAGAkdabdndb1
Definitely get TC 10 first, since it's your killing skill. After that, you can alter the order of skill investment and omit skills as you see fit. Don't omit Rising Dragon 10 though; you'll definitely need that. Possible Investment Order, by Job Level:
Job 15: Tiger Cannon 10
17: Power Absorb
23: GT Energy Gain 3
24: GT Cure 1
26: Windmill
41: Rising Dragon 10
Put the last 9 skill points wherever you want. You could get Gates of Hell to 9; or you could make Cursed Circle Level 5 and have 5 points to place wherever; etc. It's all up to you.

Like Tiger Cannon so much that you want to use it in WoE? Here's a skill build that I use on a WoE sura: http://irowiki.org/~...HNeAGAkdabdndb1
I left Heal at level 3 because the only time a sura should ever use heal in WoE is to strip off Kaite from themself or other allies. This isn't the only possible Tiger Cannon WoE build, but it seems to work alright for me, so go ahead and use it if you want. Alter it to your tastes. Think Angelus Sucks? Get Root 5 maybe. Whatever works for you. It's your character.

My WoE sura is generally more supportive. The idea is to go in and Cursed Circle enemies while allies kill them. And before CC wears off, do a non-combo Tiger Cannon and quickly snap away back to the safety of allies. The idea being to take some of the enemies' SP. If you have access to a Tao and/or Megs, then you may even be able to kill some of them using this method.

6. Additional Notes and Points of Interest
In general, a point in Vitality will make a bigger difference in TC damage than a point in Strength. That's why at 150, Vit is 110 while Str is only 90.

Furthermore, because TC takes away not only your SP but also your HP, you want to have enough HP to have a reserve that you don't kill yourself while using Tiger Cannon. I hate to admit it, but I've made the sheepish mistake of killing myself with it at various times in the past. It's good to have Vit nice and high. Higher HP is both better TC damage and lower probability of getting yourself killed.

7. Maximize the Effectiveness
The way tiger canon works is, it spreads damage around based upon the monster targetted. If you're comboing, then the monster that you use Dragon Combo on is your initially targetted monster. That's why, in the example I listed at the start with Howards, I was able to one-shot mobs with a variety of monsters, not just the Howards, because I specifically aimed for Howard and had Wind endow to maximize my damage against that particular monster, in addition to the Glorious Morning Star weapon I had on.
If I had targetted a different monster instead such as a Margaretha or an Eremes, which I sometimes did by accident, then the damage to the entire mob would be lower and not one-shot them all. In that case, we had to rely on Rangers standing by to finish off the mob when I screwed up like that.
So, my point is, endow your weapon based upon which monster you think you can do the most damage upon in order to spread the maximum amount of damage to other monsters next to it.
To summarize: Whatever numerical damage the initially targetted monster takes from Tiger Cannon will be the same damage that spreads to other monsters nearby. If you deal 81,532 tiger cannon damage to the monster that you initially targetted, everything else next to it will receive 81,532 damage as well.
If you're facing a variety of monsters with different strengths/weakness and types of resistances, then aim for something that you can hurt the most, in order to maximize the damage to the entire mob. You might not always know which one you can deal the most damage to, so experiment, look the monster up at db.irowiki.org, or the database of your choice.

8. WoE Usage
Because of the aforemented details on how Tiger Cannon damage spreads, you can use this knowledge to make a big difference in WoE.
In general, if you see someone NOT wearing a Cat Ear Beret or Red Pom Band, then they're probably the best person to aim for with Tiger Cannon in WoE. That's because if they're not wearing demi-human reductions on their head, then they probably aren't wearing much on their body either. They will take maximum damage and, more importantly, they will spread the highest amount of damage to their allies next to them, regardless of what those allies are wearing, gear-wise.
Targetting someone wearing just a cranial shield and a Turkey Hat will be more effective in harming the entire mob than targetting someone with a +12 Red Pom Band, Combat Knife, Cranial Shield, WoE Set, Carefree Acessories, and Energy Coat on.

Generally Good Tiger Cannon targets:
-Ranger (most wear White Wing Set)
-Rune Knight (many wear Turkey Hats and HP/SP boosting gears with little regard for reductions)
-Guillotine Cross (most use two-handed Katar)
-Anyone you see who's clearly wearing a garment that precludes a complete WoE set (Backpack, Fallen Angel Winds, etc) and
-Anyone wearing some headgear other than one that reduces damage from Demi-human (i.e. Turkey on Your Head, Crown of Deceit, etc)

Generally Bad targets:
-Shadow Chaser (most go maximum reductions)
-Royal Guard (most stack reductions, and have Guard and damage reflection on)
-Sorcerer (Most of the ones I've seen are tanky, so unless you see a FAW on them, indicating lower reductions, they probably bad target)

Somwhere in the middle, or could go either way:
-Maestro/Wanderer
-Arch Bishops
-Suras (see a FAW? Turkey Hat? Cleared to TC!)
-Mechanics (what's on their head?) [special note about mechs. because of the danger from Suicide Desctruction, it's almost always worth it to TC them, even if they have reductions. You want to reduce their Sp as much as you can. If you have allies nearby who can help you, just cursed circle them until others kill/disable them.]
-Geneticists
-Warlock (some gear for max damage, others gear for max survivability. In general, they could have anywhere from 19% to 78% demi-human reductions. Look for a FAW. Cleared to engage.) Go ahead and TC. You might kill them either way because of their lousy HP modifier.

In each of the above cases, always check their garment and headgear.

Are they wearing Fire Armor for Dragon Breath? Water Endow/Converter and good to go. Although this can be iffy since some players are smart and stack Water reductions like crazy. Experiment. Try different endows and see what works for you.


TL;DR Aim for the players with lowest reductions and you might just kill all their buddies too everyone.


9. Parting Words
I generally don't read the Warp Portal Forums. If you PM questions or post them here, don't expect a reply right away, if ever. Rely on other Sura players who frequent the forums to answer your questions. It's not like I'm the only one who knows how to use Tiger Cannon.


Edited by Dreimdal, 07 August 2014 - 11:43 PM.

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#2 Djaytorre

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 11:28 AM

Nice guide but you think it would be possible to delete that "thai" part in section 2?

 

Find it to be distasteful and a comment like that really has no place in mmo forums...

 

Thanks.


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#3 Zayaan

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 10:45 AM

9. Parting Words
I generally don't read the Warp Portal Forums. If you PM questions or post them here, don't expect a reply right away, if ever.

 

Oh, didn't read this part before. I'll just post here then.

 

4. Technique (i.e. How to Perform the Combo)

The timing of button presses is determined solely by your Attack Speed. I think it's good to aim for at least 177 to 178 ASPD, as a minimum, but higher is better of course.

 

This is false. The delay between Monk, Champ, Sura combo skills is 1.3 – [(AGI × 0.004) − (DEX × 0.002)] seconds. I used to think it was ASPD too. :(
 


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#4 Baturiano

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 06:37 AM

Oh, didn't read this part before. I'll just post here then.

 

 

This is false. The delay between Monk, Champ, Sura combo skills is 1.3 – [(AGI × 0.004) − (DEX × 0.002)] seconds. I used to think it was ASPD too. :(
 

 

Oh wow, so that explains why when I have 56 agi and 186 aspd it still is diff I have 90 agi 186 aspd


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#5 ka10

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 04:45 PM

Oh, didn't read this part before. I'll just post here then.

 

 

This is false. The delay between Monk, Champ, Sura combo skills is 1.3 – [(AGI × 0.004) − (DEX × 0.002)] seconds. I used to think it was ASPD too. :(
 

the idea is totally correct, but the formula is wrong (yeah sometimes the wiki isn't too accurate); the formula above means having twice more DEX than AGI completely nullifies the delay reduction (therefore pointless)

 

the correct formula is:  1.3 - (AGI x 0.004) - (DEX x 0.002) seconds; the brackets are not needed (or just change the sign inside the bracket);

with this, having both high AGI and high DEX is advantageous

 

i think players just started referring to increasing ASPD with regards to reducing combo delay since it's a direct effect of increasing AGI (and of DEX too, very slightly);

but with ASPD potions/gears and AR scrolls into play, relating ASPD to combo delay becomes misleading;

of course, we still aim for high ASPD anyways (less animation delay) for fast snapping =)


Edited by ka10, 12 July 2014 - 01:49 AM.

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#6 Zayaan

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 06:05 AM


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#7 Dreimdal

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 01:51 AM

Thanks to Zayaan and ka10 for the correction.


Edited by Dreimdal, 07 August 2014 - 11:52 PM.

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#8 Djaytorre

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:02 AM

Wow, just checked this for the first time in weeks. Initial posting has been edited to satisfy whiners. I have to confess I did that in part to test the mods, not just for the sake of making a crass joke (although that too is partly why I did it). Seems all moderators have been asleep the past few weeks in this section or they just don't give a rat's ass, like most normal people.

Enjoy the new and improved Tiger Cannon Guide where no one's delicate sensibilities are trampled upon.

 

 

Can we get this thread pinned by any chance?? O_o

 

My initial character assessment of you being a sick minded individual was spot on...

 

"Seems all moderators have been asleep the past few weeks in this section or they just don't give a rat's ass, like most normal people."

 

Normal people? ROFL,normal people would leave crass,dirty,sick comments like that out of gaming forums where kids might be reading,guess your parents education didnt really take in did it?


Edited by Djaytorre, 24 July 2014 - 03:03 AM.

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#9 OniichanN

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 06:07 AM

gaming forums

 

inb4 kittens haha.

 

Thanks for the guide op, gonna try TC once I get to sura.


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#10 Dreimdal

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 11:59 PM

Holy -_-, gaming forums are srsbsns.


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#11 Necrohealiac

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 04:40 AM

Holy -_-, gaming forums are srsbsns.

 

I wouldn't take that guy too seriously; it's the same guy who posted a rant about quitting his job so he can dedicate his life documenting and reporting people ksing his reflect leveling toon in TI.


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#12 cju711

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:44 AM

i don't get it....why manually use TC when you can just flash combo? much easier and, i would assume higher dmg too?


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#13 Havenn

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:56 AM

This thread was created before FC.


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#14 Ashuckel

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 10:11 AM

It has more than 1 year '-'
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#15 teitoklien

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 11:08 AM

i don't get it....why manually use TC when you can just flash combo? much easier and, i would assume higher dmg too?

 

You would be mistaken,flash combo has lower damage then a manual tiger cannon combo.

 

Dragon > Fallen Empire > Tiger Cannon manual combo does way higher then flash combo 

flash combo sort of works like a uncomboed tiger cannon with a 20% boost and an atk bonus without the hp and sp drop of a normal tiger cannon.


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#16 hotel

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 07:38 PM

surprised this wasn't pinned. it's the closest thing to an actual sura guide that's not outdated on these forums right now.


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#17 KingAbel

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 06:27 PM

I know this is an outdated guide but could anyone suggest some gear to target?


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#18 vusky102

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 03:32 PM

I saw on wiki they write this formula for Monk/champion combo delay as well 1.3 - (AGI x 0.004) - (DEX x 0.002)

But apparently, it's a wrong formula, for shura combo it seems right but for the combo or monk and champion it's not even close to the real delay. Does someone know the real delay formula?


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