Awwww now my GalaxyQueen can't kill anything now xD Misses to raiders and scouts, get killed by champs while trying, can't kill clerics and knight since they're waaaayyy too tanky without good aural pierce now Any ideas for new Mage build? :3
Patch Notes v513
#26
Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:50 PM
#27
Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:52 PM
Calm down calm down. We mages all have a hard time here, and the scale of the change is not what I anticipated it to be. All that is left of Aural Pierce is a third of its original strength, and I can do nothing but simply ask why it was not done gradually, first removing only a third rather than removing all except a third. Let's get it all tested properly, and then respond. The question is always the same. Are <insert class A> still <class A> if <change> happens?
#28
Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:52 PM
berts111, first, welcome to the forums. Seeing that you are new here, I can't expect that you've been able to review the history of conversation that I've had with the community regarding not just the DB update, the trade restrictions and how generally classes are looked at for balancing.
Second, you have 2 posts, both negative. So let me help clear something up regarding your opinion on this change.
It isn't when a class becomes super powerful we look at it and try to figure out how to nerf it, it's when we look at it to understand why and put it up to our design intentions. Aural Pierce was completely eliminating Magic Defense from nearly any target used on, with minimal effort behind the build to do so. Something we did not intend to happen. We wanted the skill to be used as a means to give a strong weakening to its target(s) Magic Defense, not negate it completely. Mages have already been strong before this was an issue, with the fact that the majority of classes are naturally weaker when it comes to Magic Defenses from armors. Any class needs to build with an intention for dealing with Magic based attacks, in order to handle it better. This is already an advantage, when it comes to PvP. Even in PvM, monsters are more regularly not built to handle much for Magic type combat. Few are, but even then, this skill was negating all Magic Defense, because the skill's effect value was set too high. We over estimated the impact and build construction of players that would want to support this feature and it turned out to be, from our own definition of when we see a skill's effect vs effort or sacrifice to obtain it, overpowered.
So, as I've said, and the truth, the skill was beyond our intended design. What we desired was not something so powerful a utility to an already offensively powerful class. And because of it, this one skill, was reduced in its utility and power.
#29
Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:55 PM
berts111, first, welcome to the forums. Seeing that you are new here, I can't expect that you've been able to review the history of conversation that I've had with the community regarding not just the DB update, the trade restrictions and how generally classes are looked at for balancing.
Second, you have 2 posts, both negative. So let me help clear something up regarding your opinion on this change.
It isn't when a class becomes super powerful we look at it and try to figure out how to nerf it, it's when we look at it to understand why and put it up to our design intentions. Aural Pierce was completely eliminating Magic Defense from nearly any target used on, with minimal effort behind the build to do so. Something we did not intend to happen. We wanted the skill to be used as a means to give a strong weakening to its target(s) Magic Defense, not negate it completely. Mages have already been strong before this was an issue, with the fact that the majority of classes are naturally weaker when it comes to Magic Defenses from armors. Any class needs to build with an intention for dealing with Magic based attacks, in order to handle it better. This is already an advantage, when it comes to PvP. Even in PvM, monsters are more regularly not built to handle much for Magic type combat. Few are, but even then, this skill was negating all Magic Defense, because the skill's effect value was set too high. We over estimated the impact and build construction of players that would want to support this feature and it turned out to be, from our own definition of when we see a skill's effect vs effort or sacrifice to obtain it, overpowered.
So, as I've said, and the truth, the skill was beyond our intended design. What we desired was not something so powerful a utility to an already offensively powerful class. And because of it, this one skill, was reduced in its utility and power.
Mages are not at all powerful without Aural Pierce, their attack power is way too low. And even though the values may be decieving, every single properly set-up and decent mage knows this.
Then I suggest doing it gradually, not jumping down there immediately.
Anyway, I'll hold my tongue regarding that matter until I get it tested properly.
Leo, the servers are up but I don't seem to get patch v513?
Edited by Leonis, 17 July 2014 - 03:04 PM.
#30
Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:03 PM
Calm down calm down. We mages all have a hard time here, and the scale of the change is not what I anticipated it to be. All that is left of Aural Pierce is a third of its original strength, and I can do nothing but simply ask why it was not done gradually, first removing only a third rather than removing all except a third. Let's get it all tested properly, and then respond. The question is always the same. Are <insert class A> still <class A> if <change> happens?
Why it wasn't done "gradually" was because this wasn't a tweaking kind of adjustment. The skill's base rate for what can affect magic defense reduction is known to us. Seeing how much the skill can grown with minimal effort in stat build, and what it actually can do to a target are things we can easily put to a calculated formula for a large range of test scenarios. Many of which were negating a huge amount of magic defense. On top of the already 15% reduction, Mages were further reducing by a straight amount, that has a high base value. Not only that, but it's applying as an AoE! That's really powerful!
The skill was never intended to negate an entire group of players from their magic defense. It was meant to weaken Magic Defense, to allow their damage to be more impacting from normal. When you're at level 230, 100 Magic Defense may not seem like a lot, but you already will have a high amount of INT and it makes it even more powerful if you include a bit of Charm. That 100, will naturally be somewhere in the mid 200s without Charm. Add Charm to it, you easily scale past 300s, in to the 400s in Magic Defense, which is more acceptable to us for what most classes may have as Magic Defense. So you're taking away 15% + some 400-ish Magic Defense per targets. This severely cripples the ability to reduce magic type damage.
In fact, for a level 230, the difference between 2000 Magic Defense and (minus 15% and 400 Magic Defense) = 1300 Magic Defense, is more than a 10% increase to damage, on top of the damage enhancing skills already that could go there.
Now if I put back in place, the 3x higher value, that'll be 1200 Magic Defense removed. That 2000 Magic Defense becomes 500, making that increase to damage now roughly 30%. Too much from what we wanted and 10% is more practical, and manageable, both on the defensive side, and offensive, given the teamwork that could go in to making use of the AoE effect.
So it isn't something we've given light thought to. We just had other priorities to attend to first before we got the opportunity to do something about it.
#31
Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:06 PM
Leo, the servers are up but I don't seem to get patch v513?
I got it. Make sure you don't have any active clients running and that you fully exited and patched. If you waited at the login screen, it doesn't check patch version beyond login, though we may change that soon to prevent this from being a confusion.
#32
Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:08 PM
Edited by Filipito98, 17 July 2014 - 03:11 PM.
#33
Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:12 PM
I got it. Make sure you don't have any active clients running and that you fully exited and patched. If you waited at the login screen, it doesn't check patch version beyond login, though we may change that soon to prevent this from being a confusion.
I don't have any clients running, I fully exited and patched, tried Check All but still stops at v512. I can login but the changes aren't applied, though the resets were given. I restarted already, and yet still won't move.
#34
Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:15 PM
i just tried the dual raider. worth nothing.
#35
Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:33 PM
Thanks for fixing Dual Blade class. It was complete ridiculous the debuff power they had. Of course dual blades are going to complain about it, they just don't have the intelligence to realize how much it ruined the battle system in wars. Thank you Leonis and DEV team for listening to the threads posted about Dual Blade debuffs.
- As for mages, they were simply doing way too much damage. AOE damage that is way more than single unit damage is ridiculous.
Edited by Leeny, 17 July 2014 - 03:35 PM.
#36
Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:34 PM
Mage
Aural Pierce
Reviewing the power of the effect, it was proving to be too powerful in its intended design. It was never intended to be able to negate a target's Magic Defense with minimal effort in player build.
- Magic Defense Down effect, reduced to 0/25/50/75/100, from 0/75/150/225/300.
Congratulations, you have made a useless mage class again, has not atack, will have WHAT?
- Soldier Have HP
- hawker have dodge
- bourg have Accu
and mage?
You guys came from a brilliant job, but sorry, this is the worst update the game this year.
When devs/cms tweak a class that is so OP u whine up? when they enhance a class that is nerfed before u whine up?what else do u want? can't u be so competitive to be versatile ? play smart kid and learn to adjust.
Edited by llullTAKSIAPO, 17 July 2014 - 03:35 PM.
#37
Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:35 PM
Well.. servers are empty.. are people having problem to log-in after this patch???
Guess I'll stay on-line so and no update!
#38
Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:42 PM
wow ! no cleric nerf.. jk
#39
Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:43 PM
Well.. servers are empty.. are people having problem to log-in after this patch???
Guess I'll stay on-line so and no update!
ShazamO stated earlier that Leonis Server was having issues but draconis server is doing fine, lots of ppl on
#40
Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:59 PM
Leonis should be back up and running. Our Development team is keeping an eye on it to keep it's stability.
#41
Posted 17 July 2014 - 04:35 PM
Skill changes and no free reset??
hmmm
#42
Posted 17 July 2014 - 05:38 PM
When devs/cms tweak a class that is so OP u whine up? when they enhance a class that is nerfed before u whine up?what else do u want? can't u be so competitive to be versatile ? play smart kid and learn to adjust.
These mages are just angry they won't be able to kill a group of players in a few skills like they could before this. Nothing more. They got too used to the overpowered abilities and started to play bad as mages, only relying on being able to kill a big group quickly without having to play smart.(doesn't apply to everyone, just the people that know it applies to)
#43
Posted 17 July 2014 - 06:07 PM
i got a feeling champs are coming back!!!
and im confused since white mobs do drop materials, will they still drop epic or legendary tier items?
Edited by 3722121031200347517, 17 July 2014 - 06:09 PM.
#44
Posted 17 July 2014 - 06:08 PM
My mage was always orientated towards dominating 1v1's, and for that i don't rely on aruals.
#45
Posted 17 July 2014 - 06:12 PM
These mages are just angry they won't be able to kill a group of players in a few skills like they could before this. Nothing more. They got too used to the overpowered abilities and started to play bad as mages, only relying on being able to kill a big group quickly without having to play smart.(doesn't apply to everyone, just the people that know it applies to)
No mage can clear a group of players in a few skills unless they're boosted. A pair of mages can, though, but unless properly done your group won't be defeated so easily. I am quite knowledgeable of countering mages using a wide arsenal of techniques from the cleric, especially with collaboration from champs, raiders and scouts.
I have not conducted formal testing yet, but so far, the damage output has been so less at the moment. Aural pierce at lvl 5 was 300, now is 100. I suggest it be pushed a little bit back up to 200 though.
#46
Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:45 PM
Mage
Aural Pierce
Reviewing the power of the effect, it was proving to be too powerful in its intended design. It was never intended to be able to negate a target's Magic Defense with minimal effort in player build.
- Magic Defense Down effect, reduced to 0/25/50/75/100, from 0/75/150/225/300.
Congratulations, you have made a useless mage class again, has not atack, will have WHAT?
- Soldier Have HP
- hawker have dodge
- bourg have Accu
and mage?
You guys came from a brilliant job, but sorry, this is the worst update the game this year.
AWESOME UPDATE,,, this is all just bull S***... . this is what I love about rose on this server, you changed the game around, ,, once we figure out how to play it, than you said, lets change it again, is not intend it to be , this is some stupid and useless updates ever, mage got killed in like 5 - 6 hits, the only thing they rely is their strong aoe on magic deff down, once their mdeff down got purify the mage is useless, and now you nerfed the mdeff down, than a mage is a useless class, For dual raider, now people starting to play dual raider and CONGRATSSS people they change again ,,,, such an amateur decision... thank you for ruining the idea of class balance ... to be balance leo,,,, just make everyone a cleric no other class than that is balance....
#47
Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:51 PM
I'd recommend you don't post when you're mad, it comes off as belligerent and senseless.
#48
Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:55 PM
berts111, first, welcome to the forums. Seeing that you are new here, I can't expect that you've been able to review the history of conversation that I've had with the community regarding not just the DB update, the trade restrictions and how generally classes are looked at for balancing.
Second, you have 2 posts, both negative. So let me help clear something up regarding your opinion on this change.
It isn't when a class becomes super powerful we look at it and try to figure out how to nerf it, it's when we look at it to understand why and put it up to our design intentions. Aural Pierce was completely eliminating Magic Defense from nearly any target used on, with minimal effort behind the build to do so. Something we did not intend to happen. We wanted the skill to be used as a means to give a strong weakening to its target(s) Magic Defense, not negate it completely. Mages have already been strong before this was an issue, with the fact that the majority of classes are naturally weaker when it comes to Magic Defenses from armors. Any class needs to build with an intention for dealing with Magic based attacks, in order to handle it better. This is already an advantage, when it comes to PvP. Even in PvM, monsters are more regularly not built to handle much for Magic type combat. Few are, but even then, this skill was negating all Magic Defense, because the skill's effect value was set too high. We over estimated the impact and build construction of players that would want to support this feature and it turned out to be, from our own definition of when we see a skill's effect vs effort or sacrifice to obtain it, overpowered.
So, as I've said, and the truth, the skill was beyond our intended design. What we desired was not something so powerful a utility to an already offensively powerful class. And because of it, this one skill, was reduced in its utility and power.
I SO DISAGREE with you, if you want to have a magic defence, than those classes should equipped with magic deffence gears and gems , if you nerfed those aural pierce , than that mage would be useless, mages died instantly, so now what does it have instead of a useless character. a dual raider, no one played over the year until recently and now congrats you messed it up again.. oh btw I want my money back that I purchased IM to buy my mage and dual raider since im not playing it no more. cause this is a fraud !!!!! congrats for pissing your player off including me, so what after this?? raider hits too fast? bourg has too much accu? clerics heal too powerfull? scouts shoots an arrow ?
#49
Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:21 PM
Champ 230
Equipped Luna O7 [Magic Def Gem]
Base Mdef 1274
Mage 221
Charm 220 Int 421
Arual:
15% + 1344 down.
It didn't matter if you wore mdef items, it would still take you to 10 mdef [minimum] with very little charm needed on the mage
100 cha, 1 style sunglass 30 sub [70 total] + 1 B7 = roughly 210 cha. It was out of balance.
#50
Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:30 PM
Champ 230
Equipped Luna O7 [Magic Def Gem]
Base Mdef 1274
Mage 221
Charm 220 Int 421
Arual:
15% + 1344 down.
It didn't matter if you wore mdef items, it would still take you to 10 mdef [minimum] with very little charm needed on the mage
100 cha, 1 style sunglass 30 sub [70 total] + 1 B7 = roughly 210 cha. It was out of balance.
than a champ should start adding int to their build , not just str charm con ... thats why each class has the same status for option, and you forget, you can always wear a luminous gears . it boos a lot of mdeff yet you still get the attack power, i think champs are over power with their beserk skill, and also the mute and anti stun . they should nerfed champs too especially the deff and offense
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