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Class Specific Headgear Foundry Round 2


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#1 Oda

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:29 AM

This is discussing the preview 2 and preview 3 headgears that we recently implemented as rewards from the Fourth of July quest. As mentioned in the notes, the headgear effects were significantly different than how they were proposed and many players are concerned about balance issues introduced by the new gears as received from kRO.

 

The original intent of the headgears was to give a boost to less common builds but some effects are not possible in the game without extensive development time. Some effects were tried but would not work, so the kRO team developed alterate effects. In several cases these are very different from the originally proposed effects so I am opening this thread for suggestions on modifications that can be tried to bring these closer to the spirit of the project. 

 

I will be posting the feedback from kRO on the reasoning why certain effects would not work or were requested to be changed. Please understand that some effects are not possible in the game. We are looking for alternative suggestions in those cases.

 

Round 2 we are going to look at some of the headgears who had effects changed quite a bit.

 

HARVESTER HAT[1] Geneticist 

Current Effect: 

Adds a chance to drop Blood Sucker Seed and Explosive Mushroom Spore when killing monsters. (1%)
If upgraded to +7 or higher, adds a small chance to drop Thorn Seed when killing monsters. (0.5%)
If upgraded to +9 or higher,,  increases the damage done by Cart Cannon skill by 15%.
 
Original Proposed effect: 
Adds a chance to drop Blood Sucker Seed and Explosive Mushroom Spore when killing monsters. (1%)

If upgraded to +7 or higher, adds a small chance to drop Thorn Seed and Mandragora Flowerpot when killing monsters. (0.5%)

If upgraded to +9 or higher, increases the damage done by Cart Cannon skill by 10%. 

 

The main change was the modification of the cart cannon damage. At this time, the bonus does not appear to be affecting the damage of the skill properly. 

 

DIVINE GUARD HAT[1] Royal Guard

Current Effect: 

Reduce the damage received by small, mid, big monsters by 5%
If upgraded to +7 or higher, Activate Heal Lv.5 with 1% chance to yourself when you get physical attacked. (if learned, activated acquired Lv.)
If upgraded to +9 or higher, Increase Genesis Ray damage by 20%.

 

Original Proposed Effects: 

Increases damage received from all sources by 5% (-1% per upgrade level)

If upgraded to +7, adds 10% chance to autocast Heal level 5, or wearer’s highest learned level when receiving physical damage.

If upgraded to +9, increases damage done by Grand Cross by 5% for every 5 base INT. 

 

Dev comments: They wanted the damage to be boosted on a third class skill, since most of the other hats boosted third class skills. They also believe that the autocast heal would be triggering too often. 

 

 

VERY NORMAL HAT[1] Shadow Chaser

Current Effect: 

MATK + 7%
If upgraded to +7 or higher, Increases MATK by 2 per Base INT 5 .
If upgraded to +9 or higher,, Additional increase on MATK by 5%.
 
Original proposed effect: 

Increases magic attack by 10%

Increases MATK by 10% if wearer’s base INT is 120.

If upgraded to +7 or higher, increases ASPD by 2.

If upgraded to +9 or higher, increases MATK by additional 10%

 

Dev comments: They said that the magic attack rate is too high, and Shadow Chaser is able to get to ASPD 193 more easily than other jobs. Also they commented that giving magic and attack speed buffs would be perhaps too big a boost when using  auto-proc on attack spell weapons

 

Guidelines for the thread (follow these or Get Dunked!
-Be respectful of other posters
-Be open to constructive criticism of your suggestions
-the point of these is to buff builds that are not common, NOT to solve all real or perceived balance issues with a class vs every other class. 
-These were designed for PVM, if deemed necessary we may restrict these from PVP and WoE areas.
-I don't want to see X class is OP! Learn how to play X! X needs to be nerfed! Kind of posts here. That isn't what the project is for. 
 
The mission statement of the project: 

Quote


Each headgear targets or attempts to target a niche build that is not of the mainstream (if possible, not all will come out like this).
...

I would like to re-iterate the point of these are for PvM and not for PvP or WoE so don't even try to suggest otherwise as it will be ignored.

 

 

Link to Michaeleeli's original feedback/suggestion thread on these headgears. 

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#2 Kieri

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:42 AM

+9 effect of Havester hat isn't working at all.


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#3 Kadelia

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 12:41 PM

Unconventional skills of genetic would be sling item. I believe. And cart tornado.

Unconventional royal guard is hard to say... most of their skills are versatile and good. Someone who is a dedicated. Rg player may be able to set the tone on this discussion better.

For shadow chaser, its shadow spell. Feint bomb in the like have pvp applications.
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#4 fuyukikun

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 12:51 PM

wait, so the first round already able to test on sakray? where is it?

for RG maybe back to inu proposed, buffing grand cross and maybe rapid smiting and shield press.
about chaser maybe we should buff triangle shot, feint bomb and to reduce amount of SP used to perform reproduced skills.

Edited by fuyukikun, 24 July 2014 - 12:59 PM.

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#5 Oda

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 12:55 PM

We're still working on getting the stuff ready on Sakray. 


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#6 kasshin

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 01:00 PM

For RG, just buff Cannon Spear a bit on the damage. Overbrand is the the mainstream leveling skill (more like the only leveling skill people use). Grand Cross is a Crusader skill and won't last beyond level ~110. Genesis Ray is not a viable leveling skill due to Inspiration (1% EXP, and LOTS of job levels) requirement or Banding.
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#7 Kadelia

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 01:14 PM

Oh yeah. Definitely triangle shot for chaser. Forgot that one.

Canon spear sounds like a good goal for rg hat, yeah.
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#8 Ramen

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 02:28 PM

Okay.  I have no idea what happened to the thread that had my previous suggestions, but I have a number of ideas for the Shadow Chaser hat.

 

Idea 1:

 

Skill buffs will be dependent on other skills.

  • For every level of Sword Mastery, increase damage with Fatal Menace (FM) by X%
  • For every level of Double Strafe, increase damage with Triangle Shot (TS) by X%
  • For every mastered Masquerade skill (must have 3 points in the skill) increase damage with Feint Bomb (FB) by X%

Idea 2:

 

Skill buffs will depend on stats.

  • For every X points in AGI, increase damage with FM, FB and TS by X%
  • Or just different stats.  I'm not sure which would be good, so I just went wth AGI.  =P

Idea 3:

 

Increase damage of FM, FB, and TS by X%

MATK+X or MATK+X%

 

If +7, Further increase damage of FM, FB, TS by X%, MATK+X or MATK+X%, and HIT+X

If +9, Further increase damage of FM, FB, TS by X%, MATK+X or MATK+X%, and ASPD+X or ASPD+X%, has a chance to deal splash damage on normal attacks (similar to the Leo Diadem). 

 

Idea 4:

 

I'm not entirely sure what can be done, but I would like to see Invisibility to be helped out in some way.  As it stands, the skill is more or less unusable in PVM or anything else for that matter.  The issues with the skill are the immense SP drain, the fact that once you've entered Invisibility, you cannot leave until you die or run out of SP, you cannot use ANY items, and the fact that it has a five minute cool down.  Frankly, I'd be happy with just eliminating the cooldown, as that would give it some actual viability in PVM, but at the cost of using a lot of SP items, which I think is a fair trade off.

 

Idea 5:

 

SOMETHING needs to be done with Dimensional Door.  If we can make it so that each point invested in it adds damage to FB, FM, and TS, even THAT would make it at least somewhat worth it.  Anyway, I know this thread isn't to gripe about worthless skills unrelated to the hat, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

Note: I decided not to include actual percentages for my ideas for the hat because I'm not sure what would be considered over-powered or not, and I'd rather not have my idea scrapped because I suggested something too powerful.  Though to be honest, Shadow Chaser's native skills are so horrible, I couldn't see them being overpowered unless you buffed them by 500% or more.  =P


Edited by Ramen, 24 July 2014 - 02:29 PM.

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#9 Kadelia

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 02:53 PM

Opinions on chaser skill do or don'ts

Triangle shot - do
Why: its a pvm only skill and just shy of worth making a build around.

Shadow spell - do
Why: its a pvm tactic and not strong enough to level with.

Feint bomb - don't
Why: its a pvp skill in most situations. For the pvm situations, it already works as good as it needs to (its a retreat support skill, not a damage/kill/leveling skill).

Maquerades - don't
Why: pvp oriented and very good.

Fatal menace - don't
Why: this is an aoe snatch/support skill and does what it needs to as well as it ever can. Its not a leveling/damage skill any more than snatch is.

Its also a good idea to not focus on too many skills. Keeping it to improving shadow spell and triangle shot seems just right to me.

Edited by Jaye, 24 July 2014 - 02:56 PM.

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#10 Riakuta

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:23 PM

Opinions on chaser skill do or don'ts

Triangle shot - do
Why: its a pvm only skill and just shy of worth making a build around.

Shadow spell - do
Why: its a pvm tactic and not strong enough to level with.

Feint bomb - don't
Why: its a pvp skill in most situations. For the pvm situations, it already works as good as it needs to (its a retreat support skill, not a damage/kill/leveling skill).

Maquerades - don't
Why: pvp oriented and very good.

Fatal menace - don't
Why: this is an aoe snatch/support skill and does what it needs to as well as it ever can. Its not a leveling/damage skill any more than snatch is.

Its also a good idea to not focus on too many skills. Keeping it to improving shadow spell and triangle shot seems just right to me.

 

Actually Feint Bomb can be a really fun off build for leveling. I remember Ramen Leveling on Kasa and Salamander with it. He seemed to enjoy himself.

 

 

Idea 1:

 

Skill buffs will be dependent on other skills.

  • For every level of Sword Mastery, increase damage with Fatal Menace (FM) by X%
  • For every level of Double Strafe, increase damage with Triangle Shot (TS) by X%
  • For every mastered Masquerade skill (must have 3 points in the skill) increase damage with Feint Bomb (FB) by X%

 

I really love your idea 1. It would be a useful bonus for the unupgraded effect and possibly further increase the damage of certain skills by a percentage or increase atk & matk.
 


Edited by Riakuta, 24 July 2014 - 03:29 PM.

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#11 Oda

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:39 PM

Okay.  I have no idea what happened to the thread that had my previous suggestions, but I have a number of ideas for the Shadow Chaser hat.

 

Idea 1:

 

Skill buffs will be dependent on other skills.

  • For every level of Sword Mastery, increase damage with Fatal Menace (FM) by X%
  • For every level of Double Strafe, increase damage with Triangle Shot (TS) by X%
  • For every mastered Masquerade skill (must have 3 points in the skill) increase damage with Feint Bomb (FB) by X%

Idea 2:

 

Skill buffs will depend on stats.

  • For every X points in AGI, increase damage with FM, FB and TS by X%
  • Or just different stats.  I'm not sure which would be good, so I just went wth AGI.  =P

Idea 3:

 

Increase damage of FM, FB, and TS by X%

MATK+X or MATK+X%

 

If +7, Further increase damage of FM, FB, TS by X%, MATK+X or MATK+X%, and HIT+X

If +9, Further increase damage of FM, FB, TS by X%, MATK+X or MATK+X%, and ASPD+X or ASPD+X%, has a chance to deal splash damage on normal attacks (similar to the Leo Diadem). 

 

Idea 4:

 

I'm not entirely sure what can be done, but I would like to see Invisibility to be helped out in some way.  As it stands, the skill is more or less unusable in PVM or anything else for that matter.  The issues with the skill are the immense SP drain, the fact that once you've entered Invisibility, you cannot leave until you die or run out of SP, you cannot use ANY items, and the fact that it has a five minute cool down.  Frankly, I'd be happy with just eliminating the cooldown, as that would give it some actual viability in PVM, but at the cost of using a lot of SP items, which I think is a fair trade off.

 

Idea 5:

 

SOMETHING needs to be done with Dimensional Door.  If we can make it so that each point invested in it adds damage to FB, FM, and TS, even THAT would make it at least somewhat worth it.  Anyway, I know this thread isn't to gripe about worthless skills unrelated to the hat, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

Note: I decided not to include actual percentages for my ideas for the hat because I'm not sure what would be considered over-powered or not, and I'd rather not have my idea scrapped because I suggested something too powerful.  Though to be honest, Shadow Chaser's native skills are so horrible, I couldn't see them being overpowered unless you buffed them by 500% or more.  =P

I have included the original suggestion thread in the OP here


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#12 Ralis

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 04:36 PM

Cannon Spear is worthless. Moonslasher or Earth Drive would be better.


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#13 Ramen

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 06:09 PM

Opinions on chaser skill do or don'ts

Triangle shot - do
Why: its a pvm only skill and just shy of worth making a build around.

Shadow spell - do
Why: its a pvm tactic and not strong enough to level with.

Feint bomb - don't
Why: its a pvp skill in most situations. For the pvm situations, it already works as good as it needs to (its a retreat support skill, not a damage/kill/leveling skill).

Maquerades - don't
Why: pvp oriented and very good.

Fatal menace - don't
Why: this is an aoe snatch/support skill and does what it needs to as well as it ever can. Its not a leveling/damage skill any more than snatch is.

Its also a good idea to not focus on too many skills. Keeping it to improving shadow spell and triangle shot seems just right to me.

 

I agree with Triangle Shot.  It most certainly needs some help.  Despite getting a weapon to buff its damage, it's still a terrible skill for the cost.

 

Shadow Spell I also don't really have a problem with, though I'd hesitate to buff it too much considering it is the main leveling build if you exclude Arrow Storm.  Shadow Spell is already quite powerful, and only suffers due to a lack of high MATK weapons that SC can use.  However, this issue is going to be resolved when we get the faceworm nest which brings with it some very high MATK daggers.  There's also the new Temporal Boots which have a number of ways to indirectly buff Shadow Spell rather significantly.

 

Feint Bomb I can't agree on.  It is not a PvP skill, and the only reason it gets used in PvP or WoE is because of iRO's custom change to allow Backslide in WoE.  Albeit Feint Bomb isn't super powerful, it is a viable and useful leveling skill and could use a mild buff, especially considering the skill point cost of obtaining it.  If it could be obtained without having to invest in anything else, I would agree with you.

 

Masquerades are obvious.  I don't recall anyone suggesting anything be done with the masquerades either.  I only mentioned them as a method to strengthen Feint Bomb to incur a significant cost to maximize damage with it.  I'd be fine with changing it so that maximizing Body Painting increases Feint Bomb damage instead.

 

Fatal Menace I also can't agree on.  There are a number of reasons that leads me to believe that it is in fact a leveling skill, and that kRO intended it to be one.  First, is the HIT penalty.  Even at max level, it has a -10 HIT penalty, and lower levels have much more massive penalties.  If the intent was simply to support a party by removing unwanted monsters, the HIT penalty makes no sense at all.  Second, the Black Wing [1] dagger boosts damage with Fatal Menace by 30%.  Like the bow that buffs Triangle Shot, I imagine kRO realized how underwhelming the skill was and tried to buff it through equips rather than an official patch.  If Fatal Menace is not supposed to be a skill one would level with, it makes no sense to create a weapon that is specifically designed to increase the skill's damage.  Third, the skill's damage is tied to base and job level.  This strongly indicates that it is intended to be a skill that one would level with.  Again, if Fatal Menace is simply a support skill tying its damage to base and job level makes no sense.

 

Another reason that I feel very strongly that Fatal Menace is a leveling skill and needs to be buffed is because kRO actually went to the trouble of making a new skill that didn't have the same exploit (of sorts) that Snatch has.  That being that snatch can be spammed and deal damage multiple times before the player and monster have even teleported.  Players can even use items and other skills in the period just prior to teleporting with the monster after using snatch.  This kind of thing is not possible with Fatal Menace, since it would likely have some abuse issues.

 

Lastly, the point of these headgears is to buff alternative builds, and frankly the way I see it, Reproduce oriented builds are, and have always been the main leveling build.  Copy whatever skill you want, copying is the main leveling build.  The alternative leveling builds have pretty much always been native Rogue/Stalker/Shadow Chaser skills, namely Back Stab, Sightless Mind, Snatch, Double Strafe, Fatal Menace, Feint Bomb, and Triangle Shot.  kRO tried to buff native Rogue skills prior to Renewal with Krieg, Weihna, and Dagger of Hunter,  but they quickly became useless due to the fact that they are level 2 weapons, and the buffs they gave were easily outstripped by pretty much any level 4 weapon.

 

TL;DR

Copying other skills is, and has always been, the main leveling build for Rogue class, and that includes Shadow Spell.  The point of the headgears is to promote alternate builds, and in this case that means buffing native Shadow Chaser skills like Fatal Menace, Feint Bomb, and Triangle Shot.


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#14 ShinKokuryuu

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:32 PM

Regarding feint bomb:



I sure would like us to be able to do two fifths of jRO's feint bomb damage with really good gears or something ;_;
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#15 Ramen

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:37 PM

Regarding feint bomb:



I sure would like us to be able to do two fifths of jRO's feint bomb damage with really good gears or something ;_;

 

Holy crap!  No joke.  It doesn't have to do half that damage to actually become a useful leveling skill.


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#16 ShinKokuryuu

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:52 PM

Apparently in jRO there are SCs that do mvping using feint bomb and the shiba inu hat combo, which is stronger than ours.

Back on topic, I like your first idea most. It touches on the damaging SC skills that just feel too weak compared to reproduced skills to be viable at the moment.

I'm thinking along the lines of 5% fatal menace damage per sword mastery level, 3% triangle shot damage per double strafing level and 10% feint bomb damage per mastered masquerade.

Is that too much? >_>;
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#17 Ramen

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:16 PM

Apparently in jRO there are SCs that do mvping using feint bomb and the shiba inu hat combo, which is stronger than ours.

Back on topic, I like your first idea most. It touches on the damaging SC skills that just feel too weak compared to reproduced skills to be viable at the moment.

I'm thinking along the lines of 5% fatal menace damage per sword mastery level, 3% triangle shot damage per double strafing level and 10% feint bomb damage per mastered masquerade.

Is that too much? >_>;

 

The math related stuff is not my strong point, since I wouldn't know if the percentages are applied to the damage formula or are applied to the final damage or what.  As weak as Fatal Menace and Feint Bomb are, it's hard for me to think that even 100% is overpowered, but again, the math stuff is not really what I'm going for.  I'll let the GM Team or another SC player who is into that kind of thing find a good balance on the percents.

 

Also, here is my original suggestion if anyone is interested in checking it out.  Since I had more time when I typed my original suggestions out, they're a bit more comprehensive.

 

Spoiler
 

Edited by Ramen, 24 July 2014 - 08:26 PM.

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#18 Kadelia

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:22 PM

Keep in mind chaser is unique and a lot of its skills take into consideration you can borrow skillsn from other classes.

Like feint bomb to "tank" a mob for yourself solo while you cast a borrowed skill like magnus exorcismus or severe rainstorm.

We don't really need to try and turn a skill from every job into a 1 hot key 1 press 1 dead mob skill like arrow storm...
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#19 Ramen

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:39 PM

Keep in mind chaser is unique and a lot of its skills take into consideration you can borrow skillsn from other classes.

Like feint bomb to "tank" a mob for yourself solo while you cast a borrowed skill like magnus exorcismus or severe rainstorm.

We don't really need to try and turn a skill from every job into a 1 hot key 1 press 1 dead mob skill like arrow storm...

 

That's not what I'm going for here.  I'm trying to take skills that are 1 hot key 15 press (and tons of sp and hp potions in the process) 1 dead mob and make them more like 1 hotkey 3-4 press 1 dead mob.  Even that is pretty low damage when compared to pretty much every other 3rd job.

 

Seriously though, to paint a very clear picture, if for whatever reason, you decide not to use reproduced skills (or at least no offensive reproduced skills) as a Shadow Chaser, your absolute best leveling skill is Sightless Mind.  I understand that pretty much everyone is going to get Intimidate, Preserve, and Reproduce, but even then, Shadow Chasers are gimped in every way possible to ensure that they can't be anywhere near as good with their copied skills as the class it was borrowed from.

 

So why then can Shadow Chasers not have some good skills of their own?  I'm not asking for Fatal Menace to do 50-60k per hit.  I'm not asking for Feint Bomb to do even 20k per hit.  I just want the skills to actually be viable given the SP cost, points required to unlock the skill, and material cost to even use them.


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#20 belld1711

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:47 PM

 

 

DIVINE GUARD HAT[1] Royal Guard

Current Effect: 

Reduce the damage received by small, mid, big monsters by 5%
If upgraded to +7 or higher, Activate Heal Lv.5 with 1% chance to yourself when you get physical attacked. (if learned, activated acquired Lv.)
If upgraded to +9 or higher, Increase Genesis Ray damage by 20%.

 

Original Proposed Effects: 

Increases damage received from all sources by 5% (-1% per upgrade level)

If upgraded to +7, adds 10% chance to autocast Heal level 5, or wearer’s highest learned level when receiving physical damage.

If upgraded to +9, increases damage done by Grand Cross by 5% for every 5 base INT. 

 

Dev comments: They wanted the damage to be boosted on a third class skill, since most of the other hats boosted third class skills. They also believe that the autocast heal would be triggering too often. 

 

I suggest taking out the Genesis Ray skill in favor of Reflect Damage. Everyone says that "your leveling skill is going to be Overbrand". From what I understand, there's a few different mainstream builds for WoE/PvP and closer to end-game, like Inspiration, but for leveling, there's only the Overbrand build (except for a full-support Sacrifice build, which is party-dependant.) I don't know what exactly it was that Gravity did to RD when they nerfed it (besides number of hits and SP cost), but giving a buff at +9 to at least get it close to the way it was pre-nerf would allow RGs a different leveling option, IMO.

 

With that said, I'd also suggest disabling the hat in PvP and WoE.


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#21 ShinKokuryuu

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:52 PM

True, but with how underwhelming a chaser is in pvm(especially against high level mobs that have over 100k hp), chasers struggle to level to 150.

feint bomb can be used in conjunction with borrowed skills to speed up killing. Of course the aim isn't to reach ridiculous 100k damage feint bombs but feint bomb could use a damage buff.

15~20k or so at 150/50 for non-focused builds would be pretty decent already. Feint bomb is a fun skill to use, but it's currently somewhat... weak.

Dedicated feint bomb builds(maximized dex and atk) doing around 25~30k at 150/50 sounds appropriate to me , but that would need testing since I may be wrong...
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#22 Ebersu

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 05:12 AM

The original proposed effect for Shadow Chasers was fine. I don't agree with kro saying the MATK is too high because the shadow spell damage is still pitiful... especially compared to other classes in pvm. Adding even further than that, the SP cost for casting spells manually is even more ludicrous. And 193 ASPD isn't even easily obtainable without sacrificing even more M.ATK for aspd specific gears. KRO continue their hate for giving SC any fun gear to use.
 
Shadow Chaser is definitely the hardest build to suggestion for because of the nature of SC and copying abilities.. there are A LOT of builds.  It's impossible to please everyone and very easy to get over complicated with the hat. I definitely think the hat should be stat specific, but if that is too much work then going with close to the original effect of the hat is fine. Maybe shadow chasers could get a variation of hats in colors. Purple Normal Hat could be for Spell Chasers, Blue for Triangle Shot, Red for Strength builds... if that route wanted to be taken. 
 
The staggering consensus in the original proposal thread was to boost Shadow Spell, with some hoping for Triangle Shot boosts as well. The original and the revised version of the hat both aim to boost Shadow Spell builds and I think its long overdue.  I'm going to focus on that build for my suggestion:
 
My proposed effect for the SC hat:
 
Very Normal Hat
 
MATK + 10%, SP +10%, ASPD +5%, 
 
If upgraded to +7 or higher, Increases MATK by 5 per every 10 Base INT and Increase ASPD by 1% per every 10 Base AGI. Reflect 5% of all Physical Melee Damage back to the enemy which inflicted it. (Reflect is a  great novelty for autocast builds.)
 
If upgraded to +9 or higher and If Base AGI = 120 or Higher, ASPD + 2. If Base INT = 120 or Higher, Additional MATK + 10%. Increase MATK by an additional 1% for each upgrade point above +9Adds a 3% chance to autocast Counter Instinct LV. 1 or highest level learned when dealing physical damage. (Counter Instinct just to spice things up.)
 

Edited by Ebersu, 25 July 2014 - 05:29 AM.

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#23 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 05:27 AM

Reduce SP Consumption from Reproduced skills by 10%. (Or boost sp+10% if no way to do reduce SP from reproduce.)

 

Apparently SP drain can't be reduced by a percentage. That's the main reason one of the other hats was altered, and the devs commented on it.


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#24 Ebersu

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 05:28 AM

Apparently SP drain can't be reduced by a percentage. That's the main reason one of the other hats was altered, and the devs commented on it.

 

Ah okay thanks. Will remove it!


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#25 Kadelia

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:14 AM

That's not what I'm going for here.  I'm trying to take skills that are 1 hot key 15 press (and tons of sp and hp potions in the process) 1 dead mob and make them more like 1 hotkey 3-4 press 1 dead mob.  Even that is pretty low damage when compared to pretty much every other 3rd job.

 

Seriously though, to paint a very clear picture, if for whatever reason, you decide not to use reproduced skills (or at least no offensive reproduced skills) as a Shadow Chaser, your absolute best leveling skill is Sightless Mind.  I understand that pretty much everyone is going to get Intimidate, Preserve, and Reproduce, but even then, Shadow Chasers are gimped in every way possible to ensure that they can't be anywhere near as good with their copied skills as the class it was borrowed from.

 

So why then can Shadow Chasers not have some good skills of their own?  I'm not asking for Fatal Menace to do 50-60k per hit.  I'm not asking for Feint Bomb to do even 20k per hit.  I just want the skills to actually be viable given the SP cost, points required to unlock the skill, and material cost to even use them.

 

Shadow chaser has soooo much variety though. Why can't you count reproduce+intimidate as a factor in any build, including alternative ones? Chasers aren't like most classes, hard lined into 1 aoe skill, with a desperate need for variety. Reproduce is in itself variety. You can copy ado and M.E. and pretend you're a demon slayer, or copy stoem gust and crimson rock to play magey, or copy bow skills like arrow storm and severe rainstorm (and couple with your own triangle shot) to play archery. Or even go clashing spiral and ignition break to level like a rune knight, etc. Why would there be a build without intimidate or reproduce (at least even as heal skill, also a powerful versatile backup skill)  if for any reason other than to handicap yourself (I wanna be different!) in which case, why are you buffing a handicap, that's backwards?

 

Just trying to make sense of the rationale of buffing the skill thats meant to tank a mob and move you out of harm's way to be able to kill iin place of a copied skill.
 


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