120 replies to this topic

[Yggdrasil13]

Why you no use spoiler tags? :U (that's spoiler-ish for others that haven't gotten that far in the arc yet :T...that and the image is big...)

oh, I'm really sorry about that...

Will edit it and careful next time.

[ZeroTigress]

Ooh, guild updates on the PVP server could be part of the Tiki Tuesday streams. :U Oda reporting in on which guilds have gained which territories or what guilds have begun engaging each other.

[Facekiller]

it might kill woe on Chaos... when all the major players who pvp and woe are in a constant battle for territory and resources on the PK server... tho im sure there would still be players who would want to WoE or PvP on chaos since they can stop at anytime...

[kuyaeze]

back in the day i used to play in a PK server - URDR pRO - and it's one of my most memorable RO experience. I was able to utilize the strip skills of a Rogue to keep myself alive, lol. Goodtimes.

[ZeroTigress]

it might kill woe on Chaos... when all the major players who pvp and woe are in a constant battle for territory and resources on the PK server... tho im sure there would still be players who would want to WoE or PvP on chaos since they can stop at anytime...

I don't think WoE guilds on new Chaos would move to the PVP server. They'll have to pick between which server they want to do WoE on since the PVP server WoE times would be the same as Renewal's. Small guilds could use the PVP server as a training ground to prepare themselves for WoE or just fight each other for the heck of it.

[Facekiller]

I don't think WoE guilds on new Chaos would move to the PVP server. They'll have to pick between which server they want to do WoE on since the PVP server WoE times would be the same as Renewal's. Small guilds could use the PVP server as a training ground to prepare themselves for WoE or just fight each other for the heck of it.

 

i dont even think the PK server would need a WoE... people would already be fighting over MVP dungeons and other maps... hell even controlling access to various cities... in contrast woe would feel more like training for the PK server... fighting once or twice a week for control over a castle is small compared to fighting constantly over access to various dungeons, towns, fields, and monster spawns...
 

[ZeroTigress]

i dont even think the PK server would need a WoE... people would already be fighting over MVP dungeons and other maps... hell even controlling access to various cities... in contrast woe would feel more like training for the PK server... fighting once or twice a week for control over a castle is small compared to fighting constantly over access to various dungeons, towns, fields, and monster spawns...

But what about guild dungeons and such? The PVP server needs an economy, too.

[Facekiller]

But what about guild dungeons and such? The PVP server needs an economy, too.

every dungeon would be controlled by a guild essentially... if you want to go kill Moonlight flower for instance youd either have to get permission from the guild in charge of that area or risk fighting other players... im not sure how much WoE on such a server would really contribute to its economy... hell they could sell rental god items in the PK kafra shop... people would still need the items they use for woe but much more frequently... smaller guilds could work for larger guilds as mercenaries and raiders (to keep the bigger guilds hands clean and avoid stirring up trouble between big guilds)... it in theory would work very much like the real world... perhaps the economy might even be better...

 

[Peerless]

Lol, I love how you guys are still discussing this and even trying to come up with new ideas on how this and that would work though. There have been many problems mentioned on why this wouldn't work though. But some of you are forgetting this biggest problem.

 

iRO doesn't have the population for this to happen for one. Getting guilds to cover areas 24/7 would be harder than you think, especially considering this isn't any anime. I do not think most of the population of iRO would move to this server from Chaos, as that would mean starting over, once again. Or this could be become something of a variation of Yggdrasil server, where one guild forms up with the most money and time, power levels, becomes the strongest guild, controls the economy and other aspects of the game such as mvping, actual pvping, and WoE(if there was to be one,based of Facekiller's suggestions).

 

Some of it looks good in theory, but there is no way possible this could work out realistically.

 

Just think about. How many players of Chaos do you think WoE every week and would be willing to move to this server?

 

You would need Classic's population, other regions, and private servers to make this work out.

 

By the way, this post is mainly shifted towards the latest comments on this thread.

Edited by Peerless, 10 August 2014 - 09:16 PM.

[ZeroTigress]

every dungeon would be controlled by a guild essentially... if you want to go kill Moonlight flower for instance youd either have to get permission from the guild in charge of that area or risk fighting other players... im not sure how much WoE on such a server would really contribute to its economy... hell they could sell rental god items in the PK kafra shop... people would still need the items they use for woe but much more frequently... smaller guilds could work for larger guilds as mercenaries and raiders (to keep the bigger guilds hands clean and avoid stirring up trouble between big guilds)... it in theory would work very much like the real world... perhaps the economy might even be better...

Aren't there certain drops that are only available in guild dungeons? WoE could still have a purpose when it comes to guild dungeons.

[Facekiller]

Aren't there certain drops that are only available in guild dungeons? WoE could still have a purpose when it comes to guild dungeons.

 

we are talking about essentially a custom renewal server... they could add the monsters to any number of the maps they removed with renewal...
 

[ZeroTigress]

we are talking about essentially a custom renewal server... they could add the monsters to any number of the maps they removed with renewal...

How customized could it be? It's essentially Renewal with PVP enabled on 90% of the maps with a system to control PKing. Even if the server is PVP, as long as it's Renewal, we'd still have to go through kRO for customized stuff, won't we?

[belld1711]

I like the idea of a PvP server. But seeing as how there's some people who don't think it would work, how about a trial run? Make the level 130+ maps all PK enabled for a week or two. If it pans out, and it gets positive feedback, disable PK on those maps, and create the server.

 

But instead of letting anyone just transfer their characters over to the PK server, allow only items to go. Everyone has to create new characters on the PK server. This will put everyone on an even level for a short time, would clear out a bit of the over-upgraded stuff from the Chaos server, and give the economy a sort of jump start.

 

BTW, I recall suggesting making just WoE: TE 24/7, and got a negative response for it. If a guild can't keep a castle in WoE: TE to get the benefits from it, how can they be expected to hold entire maps/regions?

[Facekiller]

How customized could it be? It's essentially Renewal with PVP enabled on 90% of the maps with a system to control PKing. Even if the server is PVP, as long as it's Renewal, we'd still have to go through kRO for customized stuff, won't we?

im not sure... Oda or Camp would have to answer that one...

 

I like the idea of a PvP server. But seeing as how there's some people who don't think it would work, how about a trial run? Make the level 130+ maps all PK enabled for a week or two. If it pans out, and it gets positive feedback, disable PK on those maps, and create the server.

 

But instead of letting anyone just transfer their characters over to the PK server, allow only items to go. Everyone has to create new characters on the PK server. This will put everyone on an even level for a short time, would clear out a bit of the over-upgraded stuff from the Chaos server, and give the economy a sort of jump start.

 

BTW, I recall suggesting making just WoE: TE 24/7, and got a negative response for it. If a guild can't keep a castle in WoE: TE to get the benefits from it, how can they be expected to hold entire maps/regions?

allowing full character transfers would be more likely to get players than having to start leveling all over on a new server, especially when you can be killed by other players... leveling is already a pain in the ass without having to fight off players too... and enabling it on the current server would make players quit... not everybody wants to play on a PK server so enabling it on the main server would be a bad idea...

[ZeroTigress]

I like the idea of a PvP server. But seeing as how there's some people who don't think it would work, how about a trial run? Make the level 130+ maps all PK enabled for a week or two. If it pans out, and it gets positive feedback, disable PK on those maps, and create the server.
 
But instead of letting anyone just transfer their characters over to the PK server, allow only items to go. Everyone has to create new characters on the PK server. This will put everyone on an even level for a short time, would clear out a bit of the over-upgraded stuff from the Chaos server, and give the economy a sort of jump start.
 
BTW, I recall suggesting making just WoE: TE 24/7, and got a negative response for it. If a guild can't keep a castle in WoE: TE to get the benefits from it, how can they be expected to hold entire maps/regions?

You're really comparing people restricted to fighting in castles with a server that will allow players to fight on field maps? At least with a PVP server, guilds actually have to be active instead of just sitting around in town all day. It's literally a world of difference.

[belld1711]

im not sure... Oda or Camp would have to answer that one...

 

allowing full character transfers would be more likely to get players than having to start leveling all over on a new server, especially when you can be killed by other players... leveling is already a pain in the ass without having to fight off players too... and enabling it on the current server would make players quit... not everybody wants to play on a PK server so enabling it on the main server would be a bad idea...

 

I'm kind of conflicted now. I mean, what would be the point in making the server then? If we have level 150's on the PvP server from day one, especially those that like to kill novices fresh off the Izlude boat, how would that be a positive for new people (if recruiting is the secondary point)? If it's for only 150's, meaning they'd have to transfer max-leveled characters over, who'd want to level in Chaos just to be able to transfer when there are other servers that (from my understanding) are out there? And why enable PK on all maps? Who's going to go outside into the Alberta maps, for example? There's nothing out there for a max leveled character. Nor is there anything for a max level outside Morroc. Alde Baren. Geffen (except stems and GH), etc. Most people would probably hang out near Prontera and fight each other for fun, which is the point. But an entire server isn't needed for just that.

 

Sure, some guilds might venture out to "control" certain towns/maps/dungeons. But after they're taken, what then? Another guild tries to come take over? Sure, seems fun, and is a good idea. But where does that leave people who are in social-only guilds or not in a guild to begin with? There's nothing but seeing who they can take on. Then it just becomes a pecking order of sorts. "Well, I can kill that person, I can't take him/her..." and whatnot. Yeah, at that point, it's about improving yourself to take on more people, but...there's still no point in even going to Comodo...

 

At least allowing people to create players on this server would give them what they're looking for (a PK server) without having to create a character on the Chaos server first. And it's been said countless times that it's possible to max level a new character within a few days with the Renewal mechanics, TI, medals, and/or the new Bounty Boards. If someone wants to raise a guild and control territory, I say make them prove how much they want it. Besides, where are all the 150's going to get their strawberries, stems, and everything else if there's no lower-leveled characters to hunt them? Would they have to *gasp* hunt for their own crap? Rely on pots since they don't have the resources to gather ygg seeds or gather all the stuff needed to make slims? And where would that leave classes like gunslingers? Their max level is 99 currently. And there'd be no market except for consumables, since everyone would be able to bring their own stuff. How would they make money to make bullets? It's already hard as hell to level a gunslinger due to the cost of bullets. If your hunting mobs that don't give any good drops, then your losing money while leveling. On the PvP server, there'd only be a need to hunt to make money to be able to buy bullets. But like I said, who wants to hunt low-level mobs? And who'd be so stupid as to hunt just to give their hard earned rewards to the guilds their going to be fighting for control of a town/map? Yes, someone could use another max level to hunt to make money for bullets, but what's the point? So already, one class is alienated.

 

I have more on my mind, but I already made a wall of text, and it's 3:45AM here, and I gotta work tomorrow. Sorry for the lengthy post.

[Facekiller]

there is a point to traveling to every town... we have just gotten used to not having to.... remove the kafra warps and people wont have a choice... if you control access to alberta you control access to alberta, dewata, amatsu, kunlun, louyang, ayothaya, port maylaya, moscovia and brasilis... that alone is enough reason to take and control alberta... you take control over comodo for its resources just like you would for any other town... controlling Umbala would also give you control over Nifleheim... youd still need to do quests for access to various dungeons and alot of the times you need to go all over to gain the items for those quests... by simply stopping players from accessing the quest materials you would cut off their dungeon access even if they already had access to the area the dungeon is in (the comodo region is needed to gain access to Moscovia dungeon for instance)... obviously some towns and maps would be more in demand than others but that would give smaller guilds a chance to take the less sought after areas... and the balance of power would be in constant shift... it would be a world wide woe essentially but for more than just a castle loot... the guilds controlling areas like payon would farm strawberries to sell to other guilds or trade for items they needed... youd see a much more realistic economy form that what you see in the current servers... do YOU want to try leveling in a PK server where the strongest guilds control the best leveling areas? or would you rather level on chaos and transfer to the new server when you are ready? chaos would be a recruiting ground for guilds on the PK server... PVP or WoE would be a great place to see a players skills... and social guilds wouldnt have any interest in teh PK server so that argument is out the window... finding a guild to join wouldnt be hard and making a guild wouldnt be very hard either... you just gather the players you want on chaos and move them to the PK server... and gunslingers would most likely choose to not join the PK server until rebellion comes... how many serious GS do you see running around effectively in WoE 1 & 2? its a SEPARATE server so nobody is forced to join it... but they could when they felt ready...

[ZeroTigress]

It'd be nice if they could make it so access quests would be optional on the PVP server. And who's to say good guilds won't be on there to allow players to level in their territories?

[Facekiller]

true... oh and i forgot another important thing that is in Comodo... Tao Gunka... without the summoner and bloody branches then the only way to get a tao would be to control comodo or trade for it... other things that could come out of a PK server is guilds who protect travelers from PK bandits... bounty hunters who get paid to hunt and kill specific players... the sheer depth of the game beyond simply killing other players is what interests me... the way economics, politics, treaties, alliances, and various other effects that a server like this would produce could be quite interesting... good guilds vs evil guilds would arise... people would find a purpose in teh PK server they wouldnt find in chaos... and if you saw botters you KNOW whos they would be based on the area they are in... if you see bots farming in a area controlled by a guild then its bound to be that guilds bots...

[bloodyrascal]

“PK Server

This server is not available in all localizations of Ragnarok Online. iRO does not have or plan to have such a server type.” - iRO Wiki.

Keeping this aside, are you guys sure you want a PVP Server? Because I am confused if it's the GVG server you guys are talking about?

Firstly, the bitter truth is that we don't have enough players to start with to even feed the idea of a brand new server. Secondly, guild politics would mean that the wars would go on only between the "established guilds" and a new player won't stand a chance to establish
his very own guild and would eventually trample between the on-going war, or end-up merging with the already established guilds. What's the fun in that? Every player deserves a fair chance to stand out and explore leadership qualities.

There are many other issues I would like to point, but then again this thread would end up as opportunity for troll members to flame and get this thread locked.

@ZeroT and Facekiller, I have umpteen respect for you guys for the reason that you guys have been playing this game for long enough, and always wish for the good of the community, but I seriously don't think this would work, let alone the mismanagement and other evils it brings along with it.

If at all, you guys want to a PK server, let it posses the beauty and simplicity of the actual PVP play other than what would just be unhealthy politics. I haven't played on other servers, but I see people mention that there existed/exists many PK servers and that can be a model for a "potential PK server". That would also help us to learn what mistakes these servers made.

Edited by bloodyrascal, 11 August 2014 - 03:10 AM.

[ZeroTigress]

“PK Server

This server is not available in all localizations of Ragnarok Online. iRO does not have or plan to have such a server type.” - iRO Wiki.

Keeping this aside, are you guys sure you want a PVP Server? Because I am confused if it's the GVG server you guys are talking about?

Firstly, the bitter truth is that we don't have enough players to start with to even feed the idea of a brand new server. Secondly, guild politics would mean that the wars would go on only between the "established guilds" and a new player won't stand a chance to establish
his very own guild and would eventually trample between the on-going war, or end-up merging with the already established guilds. What's the fun in that? Every player deserves a fair chance to stand out and explore leadership qualities.

There are many other issues I would like to point, but then again this thread would end up as opportunity for troll members to flame and get this thread locked.

Well this is a discussion, after all. Whether it would actually happen is up to the iRO team. We're just here to explore the possibilities. If people want to disregard it, they're more than welcome to.
 

@ZeroT and Facekiller, I have umpteen respect for you guys for the reason that you guys have been playing this game for long enough, and always wish for the good of the community, but I seriously don't think this would work, let alone the mismanagement and other evils it brings along with it.

If at all, you guys want to a PK server, let it posses the beauty and simplicity of the actual PVP play other than what would just be unhealthy politics. I haven't played on other servers, but I see people mention that there existed/exists many PK servers and that can be a model for a "potential PK server". That would also help us to learn what mistakes these servers made.

People have respect for an idiot like me? Can't imagine why.

I think the inherent problem when it comes to comparing other PVP servers is that those servers only catered to 1 or 2 particular regions. iRO has the distinct advantage of catering to a much wider audience when it comes to regions so that's why I believe a PVP server here would be more successful than other regions' PVP servers. Advertising via newsletters and MMO game outlets like MMOSite and MMORPG.com would help bring in the kind of players that we haven't been able to pull in with just PVM servers. (Don't you think "iRO Opens Its Very First PVP Server!" would catch a bit of attention?) We can't just rely on our current populations as a gauge for the PVP population because PVM servers restrict PVP so much.