112 replies to this topic

[jakeassasin]

wait but i meant spellfister build

[Koski]

scuba gave an input for hindsight to be able to mvp, but what i generally know is spellfist is more able to mvp

ET-wise if you have a gene on the team he'll prolly out-DPS you. your best bet is to put up magnetic earth or insignias, as well as other floor supports. exhale is a must and if you have striking (with maxed endows) you'll be more loved by the team

all those skills arent affected by your stats so either build can get those skills. you just have to spend your skill points effectively

 

From my experience, spell fist is only useful as the opener, since throwing up to 7 level 10 bolts is bound to be faster than trying to spell fist level 15 bolts unless you can get off at least 3 spell fist attacks / second, which is highly unlikely with the current mechanics. You wont be able to re-cast it fast or reliably enough. As the first spell though, its very viable and you can dish out the damage of up to level 160 bolt (7 level 10 bolts and 6 level 15 bolts) during the first second. If they changed the spell fist mechanics to be more like how Mild Wind currently work it might be feasible.

 

As for probably out-dps, they will definitely out dps you on pretty much anything unless you have a head start. Currently as a battle-autocast hybrid I've been able to snatch orc hero, orc lord, eddga, maya and phreeoni, ie. most of the really low HP (that die fast from my bolts), with low mres (again, die fast from my bolts) and low vit (AD doesn't do as much damage). And even then, only when I've had a head start.

 

I really second the notion of focusing on skills useful for your team (striking, insignias, ME, endows). Unless you plan on soloing everything, after which it does not really matter how you build in the end as long as you have fun.

 

For a spell fister build, going 120 int. I would then go for around 100~ agi and invest the rest of my points to vitality to survive some of the most powerful blows of MvPs. You wont really able to dodge MvPs anyways, so having decent aspd and going for insignias is probably a better alternative. In the end however, the stats you need is highly dependent on your current gears. If you got a Kaahi slave with VIP, you can manage just about anything with just 120 base int. I am even tempted to say that spell fist might be more viable for a non-battle build than it is for a battle. Getting 90~ or so agility might be enough, if your flee is up to speed due to base levels. At base 100~ your build should and will probably be a lot different than at level 150.

Edited by Koski, 24 August 2014 - 09:48 PM.

[jakeassasin]

and i dunno how does the spellfister work... while casting bolt I have to active it so why aspd?

[spikexp]

and i dunno how does the spellfister work... while casting bolt I have to active it so why aspd?

slowly cast bolt -> activate spellfist

hit your enemy 6 times (in one second or less) - this is where you need aspd, so you can land 6 hits and recast the bolt soon after spellfist cast delay ends

theoretically. i've tried it and it's kinda hard to keep an optimum DPS...

[Koski]

slowly cast bolt -> activate spellfist

hit your enemy 6 times (in one second or less) - this is where you need aspd, so you can land 6 hits and recast the bolt soon after spellfist cast delay ends

theoretically. i've tried it and it's kinda hard to keep an optimum DPS...

 

You actually also need aspd on the slowly cast bolt part, since your spell fist activation time is directly related to your attack speed (the animation, where your character swings its hand). With 1 agi and low ranks on free cast, your activation time on spell fist is really slow too.

 

At lets say 156 aspd, your spell fist activation time alone is 0.88 seconds (the time it takes for you to perform a single attack). This, combined with the fact that it takes you 5.3 seconds to deal all the 6 attacks you need for spell fist. Combination your single spell fist takes 6+ seconds and deals 90 levels of bolt damage. And as a hindsight, attacking 7 times / second (193 aspd), 75% chance for a level 10 bolt (linked), 6 seconds and you can have a total of 315 levels of bolt damage.

 

And yeah, keeping spell fist up all the time is pretty much impossible. At least at the rate you need for it to be better than just auto-attacking with hindsight. Like I said, if you can reliably hit more spell fist attacks than 3 / sec, it will be better and more reliable (not link dependent, not rng based) than using hindsight. This should be possible at attack speed values of 184+, but any time you use spell fist too slowly, it will make it less and less viable.

Edited by Koski, 25 August 2014 - 06:03 AM.

[jakeassasin]

And why do i have to activate it in 6th bolt? why not as i wish? And why slowly cast it... 50 dex atleast would be good atleast for proffessor

Edited by jakeassasin, 25 August 2014 - 09:12 AM.

[jakeassasin]

http://calc.irowiki....aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

What about this? Will be really hard to get the sleipnir and cards...

Edited by jakeassasin, 25 August 2014 - 10:23 AM.

[spikexp]

lol, i think it's better to try it yourself. yes you can recast as fast as you can of you wish. it's just theoretically optimum to deal 6 hits under one second before you recast it due to cast delay.

now about your stats,

pure spellfister doesnt need DEX. invest more on VIT and then LUK (maybe 100 VIT before LUK since you plan on using FAW)

about your gears,

upper head gear will always be +9 magician's night cap

orleans gown + bloody butterfly = +45% cast time - slower than slow... you don't need both. in fact, the whole sage card set is crap. you can replace them with a lot more better cards.

i seriously think that sleipnir is now outshone by temporal boots. go either agi or int with runaway magic (if you can get enough aspd from faw then go for int)

shield is another aspd penalty. you can still wear it and achieve desirable aspd with buffs and foods.

just refer to the first two pages. there's already a lot of input about gears.

[jakeassasin]

So if i won't have skull cap + the wand set, what about kronos? I can't use shield you said so it would be good. And when i will be killing MvPs, Safety Wall will need 2,4 seconds.... (I need all bolts lvl 10 so for the safety will be just lvl 5 with duration 25 sec) And before 3rd it will be hard without dex... Now, with 51+26 dex it is long

Edited by jakeassasin, 25 August 2014 - 08:52 PM.

[Koski]

So if i won't have skull cap + the wand set, what about kronos? I can't use shield you said so it would be good. And when i will be killing MvPs, Safety Wall will need 2,4 seconds.... (I need all bolts lvl 10 so for the safety will be just lvl 5 with duration 25 sec) And before 3rd it will be hard without dex... Now, with 51+26 dex it is long

 

Kronos is good, but it gives a penalty to your attack speed like you were wearing a shield. So Kronos is as slow as using TSoD and Shield. If you can live with the attack speed you have, Kronos is great. But since its possible to achieve 193 attack speed with a Thorny Staff of Darkness, I would rather go with it. The MDEF piercing is also a great effect, that helps against high MDEF monsters.

 

I would not bother with the skull cap. The only time I would use the skull cap, is if I was a caster sage.

 

As for cast speed, FAW for -30% (Spell 4+ * 3), Orleans's +15%, Thorny Staff of Darkness -20% (Spell 4+ *2) and you're sitting at -35% Cast time already. Add KK (+9) card and you're at 44% and temporal int with spell 4+ and you're sitting at -54% with no dex. And you will have to take 10 ranks to safetywall, if you plan to use it. Its base cast time is 0.4 seconds at level 10, 0.2 with no dex. Depending on the MvP though, I am not sure how useful safetywall is going to be. Most MvPs I've faced don't really deal much damage due to insignias. I would be more worried about the ones insignias are useless against (Ones that require ME to kill), where you can't use safetywall anyways.

 

My suggested gear for an optimum Spell Fister for MvP purposes would be something along the lines of:

 

+9~12 Thorny Staff (Spell 4+/4+) or +9~12 Kronos (Spell 4+/4+)

+9~12 Magician's Night Cap (KK Card)

+9 Orleans's Gown 3int (Pasana, Dokebi, Sandman, Swordfish, Bathory, Evil Druid, Angeling, Entweihen Crothen)

+9~12 FAW (Spell 4+/4+/4+, Raydric)

+9~12 Temporal Int Boots (Runaway Magic, Spell 4)

+9 Orleans's Server (Alice) - Only if you got enough attack speed to make yourself happy or you're not using Kronos.

Bradium Earrings (Siroma, Imp), Possibly Orleans's Glove If you're using the Server.

Ninja-Scroll

Robo Eyes

 

Note, that its only designed for the maximum Spell Fist damage and won't really work too well with Hindsighting due to the lower attack speed. Should also be noted, that I did not perform any particular calculation maximum damage potential that comes from ASPD (and thus, being able to deliver spell fist attacks as fast as possible). It is only about doing as high damage spell fists as possible, thus minimizing the need to re-cast it all the time. One Spell Fist cast (6 hits) should be enough to bring any non-mvp down.

 

Suggested stats are 120 base int, 100 vit, 100 agi and 56 luk. Getting less vit is possible, but make sure your total with with job bonuses / Items is 100, so you're stun immune. With Ventus and Orleans's Server, you should be able to function as a regular Sorcerer caster quite well too. Just change your Thorny Staff to Mental Stick.

Edited by Koski, 25 August 2014 - 11:06 PM.

[jakeassasin]

And when i will do TI quest solo (would it be combinable?)

+9 Skull Cap

Robo Eyes

Ninja Scroll

Orlean's Gown [Agav] or [Entweihen Crothen]

•  Can Nidhoggur Shadow card reduce casting for Socr too?

+7~+12 Thorn Staff (Spell x2)

+9~+12 FAW [Giant Wishper]

Sleipnir (Or valky/variant shoes)

Chambered RWC Ring [Sacraba]

Chambered RWC Pendant [Sacraba] or [Beelzebub]

[spikexp]

If you can afford those, and get up to ~100% cast reducs (adding KK card and a minimum of Spell4/3 enchants) then you'll be just fine soloing low and mid TI.

Just remember you'll be using Ventus and PW and every other offensive cast skills like EG and DD a lot... You can't really mob as Spellfist/Hindsight.

[jakeassasin]

KK is Katherine Keyeron right? I meant that too

Edited by jakeassasin, 26 August 2014 - 03:30 AM.

[jakeassasin]

I though I will have 2 builds in one and simply changing the equip... One more thing,  is the skill Elemental Shield and Full Throthle available?

Edited by jakeassasin, 26 August 2014 - 09:36 PM.

[Koski]

I though I will have 2 builds in one and simply changing the equip... So and i dunno what first... First Spell-ed FAW of course xD

 

I'm not sure how that Giant Whisper is going to help you, outside just happening to have it on you as the only FAW, seeing as it does not benefit your MATK in any way. 3% HP, sure, but Raydric is bound to be more than 3% of your max health, possibly on every attack so there is no reason to go with it. For physical attack based classes, Giant Whisper is viable.

 

I would also still rather go with temporal int boots. +9 gives you 90 matk (if you got 120 base) while sleipnir only gives you 37~ matk from its 25 int. So outside of providing 20% more hp and sp, its quite negligible. And even then, the extra SP is practically useless, since you can just indulge your pool full.

 

Nidhoggur does not work with Sorc, at least not according to its description. I would not buy it to test it out for sure.

 

I would also find the RWC Accessories more beneficial to you if you left them unslotted. While 20 matk is significant up to a point as a caster, it wont give you benefit for spell fist (as you need imp or siroma really, unless your doing lightning bolts, but I'm hoping they'll come ). You get the 5% matk/atk and you can enchant it even while unslotted. The unslotted versions have the benefit of working together with the build Scuba suggested, which should be quite good against foes that take low damage or are immune to your bolts (such as holy 4 or any annoying high holy/shadow mobs, that take reduced damage). Then again you can just have both slotted and unslotted versions of the accessories if you're made out of money.

 

As for being able to do a Spell Fister & Caster at the same time, you might get skill starved, so plan your skill build carefully. Here is a list of skills I would not go without as a Spell Fister & PW/DD. There is some room for customization, but you'll pretty much end up really bad with hindsight, so its a tradeoff. My Battle-Autocast Sorc is built somewhat like This (any suggestions to this are also welcome). If full throttle is unavailable (it'd be last skills anyways), then I would go with something along the lines of This

Edited by Koski, 26 August 2014 - 10:10 PM.

[jakeassasin]

Thinking about 3 in 1 Sorcerer

1. Hindshighter
2. Caster
3. PvP (Hindshigh or Caster + High Wiz. Katherinne C.)

But firstly i have to make done the hindshighter xD

[jakeassasin]

-_-... i also badclicked and have now 2 dex what now?

[Koski]

... i also badclicked and have now 2 dex what now?

 

Have you already trancended? If not, it does not matter as you get a reset free when you trancend. If you have trancended, then using reset stones to reset is viable. That one wasted dex point will not matter that much until you're level 150 though, so I would not bother with it for now.

[jakeassasin]

i did already - lvl 71 scholar

[Koski]

i did already - lvl 71 scholar

 

Then your options are either to ignore it (suggested, its not that many wasted points) or using reset stones, while its still cheap for you. If you do it before level 91, you will only need 3 reset stones though, while at 150 you need 7.

[jakeassasin]

so cuz of 2 wasted stat points i have to use reset stones? :/

[Koski]

I would not use reset stones to cover a loss of 2 stat points. It is highly likely, that you would not have any useful place to put them anyways and the first time they actually do come relevant, is level 150. So I would not worry about it.

[jakeassasin]

Okay :3 Thanks. And what about Scholar Celia (MvP) card (gonna come out soon) in Orleans? (Matk+7%)

Edited by jakeassasin, 29 August 2014 - 03:47 AM.

[jakeassasin]

And the nidhoggur card will decearse Sorcs casting too?

[Koski]

And the nidhoggur card will decearse Sorcs casting too?

 

Nidhoggur should not work with sorc.

 

7% matk card is hardly worth it, when you can get a cheap non-mvp card with 5% in it. Eventually, the 100matk mvp card should be best for you, as Spell Fist suffers from the 15 bolt attacks intelligence reduction a lot more. You want to maximize your single strike damage in the end.

 

Generally, I would not place too many MvP cards in your gear to begin with, there are only like one or two that are so exceptionally good that you should even bother. Otherwise you'll get a lot more benefit from the cards by selling them. While a sorcerer does need good gear, its not dependent on MvP cards that much.