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#176 CocaCola

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 11:03 AM

It's an update from kRO, period. Not like they requested it intentionally after people QQ'd about it.

Also you are whining because you do almost twice as damage as an average geared genetic? GTFO

Nah you gtfo

AB-132 #6
Genetic- 139 #1
GX- 122 #7
Maestro-115 #last
Mechanic-119 #8
Ranger-122 #7
RG- 134 #5
RK-137 #2
SC-134 #3
Sorc-139 #1
Sura-137 #2
Wanderer-122 #7
Warlocks-133 #4

Just look at the top10 lvl avg of each class. The top 5classes have a 5 lvl range...not that much at all. Genetics cart cannon is great with a full god item set up, a joke without it. Any other class I can think of isnt as nearly as gear/item dependant as Genetics are. Like I said, the 150 genetics lvled off of ABin MVPs not cart cannon, not every can afford 500mil+ in bombs to lvl like they did.
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#177 Myzery

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 11:17 AM

Nah you gtfo

AB-132 #6
Genetic- 139 #1
GX- 122 #7
Maestro-115 #last
Mechanic-119 #8
Ranger-122 #7
RG- 134 #5
RK-137 #2
SC-134 #3
Sorc-139 #1
Sura-137 #2
Wanderer-122 #7
Warlocks-133 #4

Just look at the top10 lvl avg of each class. The top 5classes have a 5 lvl range...not that much at all. Genetics cart cannon is great with a full god item set up, a joke without it. Any other class I can think of isnt as nearly as gear/item dependant as Genetics are. Like I said, the 150 genetics lvled off of ABin MVPs not cart cannon, not every can afford 500mil+ in bombs to lvl like they did.


Sura is just as dependent imo.
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#178 GuardianTK

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 11:24 AM

kRO's devs were smoking something again......
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#179 Ardi

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 12:01 PM

Nah you gtfo

AB-132 #6
Genetic- 139 #1
GX- 122 #7
Maestro-115 #last
Mechanic-119 #8
Ranger-122 #7
RG- 134 #5
RK-137 #2
SC-134 #3
Sorc-139 #1
Sura-137 #2
Wanderer-122 #7
Warlocks-133 #4

Just look at the top10 lvl avg of each class. The top 5classes have a 5 lvl range...not that much at all. Genetics cart cannon is great with a full god item set up, a joke without it. Any other class I can think of isnt as nearly as gear/item dependant as Genetics are. Like I said, the 150 genetics lvled off of ABin MVPs not cart cannon, not every can afford 500mil+ in bombs to lvl like they did.



Just level without god items for about 10min so people stop seeing those 20k cart cannons and thinking its the norm (lol 4/5 genetics before the nerf in AL 3 were using at least -FOUR- god items each, and all from the same guild too)
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#180 LordVader

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 12:06 PM

Really? 8 pages of crying over this?

The funny part is that majority of the people here doing the crying are genetics. Everyone else pretty much is satisfied that the skill is now balanced. It's like giving a kid with a go cart that's throttled up too high and is unfair to the other kids that are capped off. So you cap his cart too and everyone is in sync. But the kid is now pissed because he no longer has an unfair advantage.

Cart Canon seems to still be a great leveling skill as I saw a few genetics killing huge mobs in Juperos last night all the way from 1am-5am in the morning my time. There wasn't a time that a genetic was not on the map leveling well killing huge mobs right next to me with the same skill that you guys claim is garbage without god items. Hell, cart canon isn't even at the END of the skill tree for you guys.

However, I do agree that since they nerfed it there should be resets reenabled as 1 time stat/skill reset for genetic class only. But through submitted tickets, not through reenabling the NPC.
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#181 Puppet

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 12:07 PM

still complaining eh. the nerf it welcome change now they just need to balance out the plant :P too
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#182 Kadnya

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 12:15 PM

The nerf in cat cannon isn't that bad, but I don't fee that it was the correct nerf. The skill just needed some delay in how fast it coud be spammed. Though, I don't understand how this could be considered a costly skill o-o. For us who 99ed from mammoing each monster for 1k zenny, then 99ed bombing for 100k zenny per monster... 2.5k zeny per mob sounds really cheap xP.
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#183 Kadelia

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 12:17 PM

Wow. Anyone comparing Severe Rainstorm to Cart Canon is mentally ill.

Cart Canon's DPS doesn't have the ceiling SR's does.

Edited by Jaye, 11 November 2010 - 12:27 PM.

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#184 rayy

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 12:33 PM

Wow. Anyone comparing Severe Rainstorm to Cart Canon is mentally ill.

Ignoring the exponential multiplier for INT in the cart canon formula, we're looking at 700% modifier, limited by aspd and cast time. With a removable cast time and an easy to up aspd from mjolnir, AGI, Adrenaline Rush, Medal of Honor, etc, we have a potential ceiling on DPS of 700 * 4 (assuming 4 hits/second with minor woe lag, and for the purpose of comparison next, we'll look at 5 second DPS) * 5 = 14,000% over 5 seconds. Severe Rainstorm at job 50 and 160 DEX, 100 AGI does 6840% over 3 seconds with a 5 second skill-specific cooldown, meaning 6840% over 5 seconds. The exponential INT part of the Cart Canon formula actually makes the 700% a lot stronger than you'd normally expect from 700%, but we're going to set that aside from now. You're looking at Cart Canon doing more than twice the DPS of Severe Rainstorm. Severe rainstorm has a bow and an interruptible cast time. Genetics get a shield and a non-interruptible cast with Mjolnir. This is also ignoring the high ATK on mjolnir that will again, trump the hell out of any ATK a performer has. The reality is the skill does something like 3-4x the DPS of even a 150/50 Performer who is sacrificing their shield (and frankly will have trouble completing cast unless in a precast or sacrificed by a crusader-type) and has a full combat build. This is far from fair. Wise people like Doddler only suggested reducing the exponential rate of fire on this skill to make it 0.3 seconds with sacriment and a mjolnir, forcing no more than 3/sec shots and a little chance to have it interrupted. This provides a ceiling of 10,500% over 5 seconds, whih is closer to 2-3x the DPS of Severe Rainstorm (which can possibly be defended by the prestige of the god item on the genetic. Still seems high to me given the INT formula). Personally I like the 0.4 sec cast after sacriment so that it'd be around 8750%/5 second DPS.


I don't even know what to say
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#185 Kadelia

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 12:37 PM

I don't even know what to say


You could commend me for providing the data as to why the two skills shouldn't be compared as if they were on the same footing. Or apologize for being a moron. Or simply disappear since you've got nothing of value to contribute (ever). Any of the above would work pretty well.
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#186 rayy

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 12:42 PM

Thank you for the helpful in-depth mathematical analysis of two completely differrnt skills
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#187 Kadelia

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 12:46 PM

Why, thank you. Any skill that isn't the same one sure is different. That is a completely relevant and useful observation.
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#188 snowstorm

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 01:04 PM

I never have and probably never will see anyone die to a Dancer, Gypsy, or Wanderer. I have seen guilds wipe because of A biochem and will probably see guilds wipe because of A genetic too. Gypsies were good at stunning the cannon fodder in noob guilds, and won't even be doing that as much now with more classes able to get stun immunity. So a bad class becomes a buff slave now, and that's probably what you should be doing in WoE as it suits your skill level. If you started off on a new server by making a wanderer, this really isn't the game for you.
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#189 CocaCola

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 01:27 PM

Just level without god items for about 10min so people stop seeing those 20k cart cannons and thinking its the norm (lol 4/5 genetics before the nerf in AL 3 were using at least -FOUR- god items each, and all from the same guild too)

No.
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#190 CocaCola

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 01:29 PM

Really? 8 pages of crying over this?

The funny part is that majority of the people here doing the crying are genetics. Everyone else pretty much is satisfied that the skill is now balanced. It's like giving a kid with a go cart that's throttled up too high and is unfair to the other kids that are capped off. So you cap his cart too and everyone is in sync. But the kid is now pissed because he no longer has an unfair advantage.

Cart Canon seems to still be a great leveling skill as I saw a few genetics killing huge mobs in Juperos last night all the way from 1am-5am in the morning my time. There wasn't a time that a genetic was not on the map leveling well killing huge mobs right next to me with the same skill that you guys claim is garbage without god items. Hell, cart canon isn't even at the END of the skill tree for you guys.

However, I do agree that since they nerfed it there should be resets reenabled as 1 time stat/skill reset for genetic class only. But through submitted tickets, not through reenabling the NPC.

Funny, you also skipped the part where almost every agrees itwasnt the damage that needed to be changed. The damage should be the same and the cast time should be changed that was what 99% of the genetic discussion thread was saying before this nerf patch came.
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#191 Puppet

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 01:48 PM

stop whining if you dont like go annoying kRO the skill was op and you all know it and even with the blance patch its still one of the most powerful aoe attacks
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#192 Symphony3000

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 01:52 PM

The funny part is that majority of the people here doing the crying are genetics. Everyone else pretty much is satisfied that the skill is now balanced.


That's like saying the only people crying over getting stabbed in the face with a fork are the people getting stabbed in the face with a fork.

Well duh. People who don't play Genetics are hardly going to be up in arms, are they?
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#193 Ghost007

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 02:43 PM

Actually its more like the people getting slashed across the neck, are now being stabbed in the leg, and the attacker is really pissed because of it.
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#194 Undying

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 02:45 PM

kRO's devs were smoking something again......


I sold it to them.
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#195 meoryou2

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 03:53 PM

Really? 8 pages of crying over this?

The funny part is that majority of the people here doing the crying are genetics. Everyone else pretty much is satisfied that the skill is now balanced. It's like giving a kid with a go cart that's throttled up too high and is unfair to the other kids that are capped off. So you cap his cart too and everyone is in sync. But the kid is now pissed because he no longer has an unfair advantage.

Cart Canon seems to still be a great leveling skill as I saw a few genetics killing huge mobs in Juperos last night all the way from 1am-5am in the morning my time. There wasn't a time that a genetic was not on the map leveling well killing huge mobs right next to me with the same skill that you guys claim is garbage without god items. Hell, cart canon isn't even at the END of the skill tree for you guys.

However, I do agree that since they nerfed it there should be resets reenabled as 1 time stat/skill reset for genetic class only. But through submitted tickets, not through reenabling the NPC.


Heres an idea, why don't you just go rage quit over a guild name again. Oh, and take Jaye with you, the collective IQ of the forums drops whenever it comes around.
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#196 Ralis

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 03:53 PM

The nerf is nothing to complain over it was so minor. o_O;
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#197 Miii

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 04:13 PM

Actually, the nerf isn't even noticeable, was complaining for nothing. :P
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#198 Sevi

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 06:24 PM

I don't have a geneticist and dying to just cart cannon prior nerf was just bad, either because you're too low level or because you're not around someone who knows how to pneuma. The nerf doesn't bother me either way, I'm just amused that the GMs didn't even know they managed to implement it.
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#199 Tofu

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 12:28 AM

I tried out cart cannon earlier and compared it to a screenshot of my damage before the nerf, and it actually seems like my damage went up slightly. I was doing 9k before, and now I do 10k, without god items.

The formula might have been changed so that it relies less on stats than before. Or at least the exponential part of int has been changed to a more linear one. For the majority of genetics without access to god items, this change really doesnt affect them. Not in a negative way at least.
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#200 Kadelia

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 04:04 AM

Heres an idea, why don't you just go rage quit over a guild name again. Oh, and take Jaye with you, the collective IQ of the forums drops whenever it comes around.


I don't think you understand how IQ works. When someone who is smarter than you leaves, it lowers the average.

QQ more over being wrong about this whole topic :P
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