59 replies to this topic

[hoikarnage]

Several people have told me it is legal now to macro things as long as it's not during woe, and that in fact, many of the top rated alchemist do.

 

I was wondering if a GM would be so kind as to confirm/deny this. 

 

 

 

 

[Gn1ydnu]

I can assure you from personal experience, macoing anything (even outside of woe) can result on bans/suspensions. Doesn't matter if your present at the keyboard with a couple clients open. It all depends on who reports it and if the gms are there fast enough to check. Vast majority of time it is safe, unless somebody is holding a grudge against you

However, it would take a heartless person to even think about reporting macros or other things for potting.

Edit: are you talking about a macro to spam a key well you hold it down for potting? That is perfectly legal. My comments were geared towards you potting on the alchemist with another client macroing Gloria for example.

Edited by Gn1ydnu, 09 September 2014 - 08:35 AM.

[hoikarnage]

I'd still like an answer from someone official.

[Inubashiri]

Its not a problem as you just described.  Potting with macros (such as Logitech G15, or some software that emulates keystrokes) has been fine for some time now.  It gets to be a problem when you're using third party programs to inject packets into the socket connection RO uses.  Using a macro or keyboard macro (Logitech G15 for example) is fine.  Using other programs I won't mention by name is not okay.

Edited by Inubashiri, 09 September 2014 - 08:57 PM.

[hoikarnage]

Allright, thanks

[belld1711]

Why not just legalize all bots and macros? I mean, what's the point of a GAME if you have to sit around and actually PLAY it?

[Inubashiri]

Why not just legalize all bots and macros? I mean, what's the point of a GAME if you have to sit around and actually PLAY it?

 

Where in my statement did I mention anything about bots, I really hope you can tell the difference between a keyboard macro that emulates keystrokes and a bot program that imitates all client/server interactions...

[Xellie]

Why not just legalize all bots and macros? I mean, what's the point of a GAME if you have to sit around and actually PLAY it?

 

Pot for 20 hours a week to supply a guild and then tell me that using rapid fire macros is a horrible idea.

[ZeroTigress]

Why not just legalize all bots and macros? I mean, what's the point of a GAME if you have to sit around and actually PLAY it?

[Pick]

Pretty much

[belld1711]

Where in my statement did I mention anything about bots, I really hope you can tell the difference between a keyboard macro that emulates keystrokes and a bot program that imitates all client/server interactions...

 

It wasn't directed at your comment, just that ANY kind of automated process be allowed is stupid, IMO. I don't use bots, macros or anything else because...why do it? It's a game. If you can't play a game for what it is, then there's no point. I don't even use any of those programs that show the gutter lines of skills, or whatever they do.

 

Pot for 20 hours a week to supply a guild and then tell me that using rapid fire macros is a horrible idea.

Honestly, I would if I could. But I don't have ultra leet gear nor all the supplies needed that were duped or botted to even participate in WoE, let alone fund a guild. Even if I did, I wouldn't. I wouldn't insert myself into "that" kind of scene where if your not perfectly geared, with the best consumables, best of EVERYTHING, your just wasting your time and money (possibly both, cash and zeny). Everyone knows that WoE is thriving off of bots, so why even ask if anything is even legal any more? Just legalize botting and be done with it.

 

And FYI, that's not a personal attack on you, nor am I accusing you, Xellie, of botting or doing anything illegal. However, getting enough materials to "pot for 20 hours" means your getting it by opening at least a few buy shops, I'm betting. Guess where that stuff is coming from.

 

Sorry if I came off like that, it just irks me that any kind of automated process is supported by iRO. Do the damn work yourself.

[needmorezleep]

That stuff comes from gsbs which aren't really botted on classic not that it would be efficient to bot them outside of the payon guild dungeon anyway

[Ralis]

Potting isn't really "playing the game".

 

Potting is like the drive to a really fun party... You have to do it to get to the fun stuff, but if you could have someone else drive for you you totally would. That's why you're super stoked about cars that drive themselves in the near future. Sure, you have to sit there and turn it on and observe it, but it makes it a whole less of a hassle.

[Pick]

We don't have buy shops on classic iirc and yea potting is not playing the game like ralis said.

Edited by Pick, 09 September 2014 - 11:46 PM.

[Xellie]

It wasn't directed at your comment, just that ANY kind of automated process be allowed is stupid, IMO. I don't use bots, macros or anything else because...why do it? It's a game. If you can't play a game for what it is, then there's no point. I don't even use any of those programs that show the gutter lines of skills, or whatever they do.

 

Honestly, I would if I could. But I don't have ultra leet gear nor all the supplies needed that were duped or botted to even participate in WoE, let alone fund a guild. Even if I did, I wouldn't. I wouldn't insert myself into "that" kind of scene where if your not perfectly geared, with the best consumables, best of EVERYTHING, your just wasting your time and money (possibly both, cash and zeny). Everyone knows that WoE is thriving off of bots, so why even ask if anything is even legal any more? Just legalize botting and be done with it.

 

And FYI, that's not a personal attack on you, nor am I accusing you, Xellie, of botting or doing anything illegal. However, getting enough materials to "pot for 20 hours" means your getting it by opening at least a few buy shops, I'm betting. Guess where that stuff is coming from.

 

Sorry if I came off like that, it just irks me that any kind of automated process is supported by iRO. Do the damn work yourself.

 

Get some information, my guild collectively hunt the mats in GD. I'm doing it right now, want a livestream? I never buy potting mats, classic life.

 

macroing hotkey strokes is like this.... do you get mad at these guys?

 

Edited by Xellie, 10 September 2014 - 12:45 AM.

[belld1711]

Classic doesn't have buy shops? I didn't know this. Nor was I talking exclusively about Classic. There's no mention of server in the thread title, nor OP. So... yeah.

 

But as for the "drive" analogy, I love driving. I drove a commercial truck for a time. If I could, I'd continue traveling. The destination is not always where the adventure lies. Likewise, I like making things. I've made food for one of my guildies in the Great Leveling Game guild. If all of them asked, I'd help hunt the items, and spend 20 hours making that food. If I had the time, I'd level my alchemist and start using him to make my pots. And if it was viable, I'd level up my blacksmith and make/upgrade gear. I find crafting a good break from grinding.

 

But as for your guild, I'm glad you guys collectively hunt all the mats needed to make the stuff for WoE that you need. Your guild is probably one of what? two guilds total that partake in WoE, most likely, in both servers that doesn't buy stuff, even from vend shops set up by bots, or use bots themselves. Kudos. But macros of any kind... legal or not, any automated process still rubs me the wrong way. I honestly don't think there should be any need for third party programs at all.

[Ralis]

Come pot for us? We have gears and stuff kthx

[hoikarnage]

Oh look, I dont even have to be here and my threads still cause drama.

 

Anyone who wants someone to pot for them on renewal, send me a pm! #2 Alchemist in the house!

 

Only slims though, you can pot your own damn bombs, you lazy bastards.

 

[Xellie]

Classic doesn't have buy shops? I didn't know this. Nor was I talking exclusively about Classic. There's no mention of server in the thread title, nor OP. So... yeah.

 

But as for the "drive" analogy, I love driving. I drove a commercial truck for a time. If I could, I'd continue traveling. The destination is not always where the adventure lies. Likewise, I like making things. I've made food for one of my guildies in the Great Leveling Game guild. If all of them asked, I'd help hunt the items, and spend 20 hours making that food. If I had the time, I'd level my alchemist and start using him to make my pots. And if it was viable, I'd level up my blacksmith and make/upgrade gear. I find crafting a good break from grinding.

 

But as for your guild, I'm glad you guys collectively hunt all the mats needed to make the stuff for WoE that you need. Your guild is probably one of what? two guilds total that partake in WoE, most likely, in both servers that doesn't buy stuff, even from vend shops set up by bots, or use bots themselves. Kudos. But macros of any kind... legal or not, any automated process still rubs me the wrong way. I honestly don't think there should be any need for third party programs at all.

 

No, this is not a server exclusive issue. However, potting is ass on both servers. Especially when you're proving for a large group of people.

 

So you like driving huh? How would you feel driving down the same road, with the same scenery for all of your days? Don't stand up, don't take breaks, don't worry about getting RSI. Just drive. Drive and enjoy the same road all of the time.

 

20 hours every week is a big ask of anyone. This isn't really just about "making things faster" ... it does a little bit but honestly, its just a program that presses the key for you (spams it) rather than you actually physically harming yourself through "playing the game". Tell me which of those is more important. The macro my guildmates use requires them to remain at the keyboard and actually hold the key down rather than repeatedly spamming it.

 

If you love creating so much, I invite you to come pot for us. I need someone to do this 5 days a week for me.

 

Edited by Xellie, 10 September 2014 - 12:52 AM.

[Jenna]

But guys, the potting system is so fun! Come buy white potions. And Medicine Bowls. Empty Test Tubes!

 

Then pot Blue herbs one, by one, ~about 6k+ should be great.

 

That's pressing F1 6,000 times. Then pressing Enter twice, And that's just blue potions.

 

Edit: lets continue because we should do this ourselves . We're going to need 60,000 Condensed White potions, and please pot about 6,000 bomb sets as well for both WoE's. Do this while working a full-time job, errands, whatever else you have to do IRL then log on to Ragnarok Online to pot. See how long it takes you Remember, that means you have to keep restocking medicine Bowls, Empty Test tubes, Scells, Empty Potions, Empty Bottles (you have to buy these by the way from the vendors!), and the white potions! You can only buy 483 at a time and you need 30,000.

 

#Pottingisfun -> not kidding it actually is a bit relaxing

#pressthatbluepotionkey6000times

#crucifythosemacroers

Edited by Jenna, 10 September 2014 - 01:11 AM.

[renouille]

Potting is like the drive to a really fun party...

But as for the "drive" analogy, I love driving.

I prefer this analogy:

Potting is like the walk to a really fun party... in a whiteout.

Limited keyboard/mouse macroing, which Xellie et al. advocate, is like making the trip on a bicycle instead.

Unrestricted botting and fully automated macroing, which belld1711 opposes, are like a ride in an air-conditioned, AI-driven truck, and you're watching TV the entire time.

These are completely different things.

[belld1711]

I'd like to join you guys, but unfortunately, I have a total of 2 characters on Classic, and neither of them are above first class. Besides, this is the first invitation I've gotten, (even as sarcastic as they seem) to join any "big time" guild. I've lived without them, and without WoE this long, I think I'll be okay now. And as I stated before, I wouldn't insert myself into that kind of scene.

 

And yeah, it does seem kind of monotonous watching that video. I just find it so strange that your entire guild only has one potter. At least one of your guildies should make an alt and share the burdon. For shame.

[belld1711]

I prefer this analogy:

Potting is like the walk to a really fun party... in a whiteout.

Limited keyboard/mouse macroing, which Xellie et al. advocate, is like making the trip on a bicycle instead.

Unrestricted botting and fully automated macroing, which belld1711 opposes, are like a ride in an air-conditioned, AI-driven truck, and you're watching TV the entire time.

These are completely different things.

 

Would you please describe the differences? As stated (and which I think is obvious) I know nothing about any of this stuff. I kind of mentally link "macros" with "botting" and such. It's all automated, and if it's used during WoE/PvM/PvP, it should be illegal. No matter what it does. All I'm seeing from the videos people link to is just the use of additional info that's displayed. I can't see what the macro/bot is actually doing. What's being manipulated and what the player is actually controlling...

[Xellie]

But guys, the potting system is so fun! Come buy white potions. And Medicine Bowls. Empty Test Tubes!

 

Then pot Blue herbs one, by one, ~about 6k+ should be great.

 

That's pressing F1 6,000 times. Then pressing Enter twice, And that's just blue potions.

 

Edit: lets continue because we should do this ourselves . We're going to need 60,000 Condensed White potions, and please pot about 6,000 bomb sets as well for both WoE's. Do this while working a full-time job, errands, whatever else you have to do IRL then log on to Ragnarok Online to pot. See how long it takes you Remember, that means you have to keep restocking medicine Bowls, Empty Test tubes, Scells, Empty Potions, Empty Bottles (you have to buy these by the way from the vendors!), and the white potions! You can only buy 483 at a time and you need 30,000.

 

#Pottingisfun -> not kidding it actually is a bit relaxing

#pressthatbluepotionkey6000times

#crucifythosemacroers

 

You forgot the 20+ hours of hunting lawl

 

 

I'd like to join you guys, but unfortunately, I have a total of 2 characters on Classic, and neither of them are above first class. Besides, this is the first invitation I've gotten, (even as sarcastic as they seem) to join any "big time" guild. I've lived without them, and without WoE this long, I think I'll be okay now. And as I stated before, I wouldn't insert myself into that kind of scene.

 

And yeah, it does seem kind of monotonous watching that video. I just find it so strange that your entire guild only has one potter. At least one of your guildies should make an alt and share the burdon. For shame.

 

Actually our potter is accessible by multiple guildmembers to share the time it takes. Obviously not too many because that would be silly. Some take on the duty of hunting (I won't touch the potter if I can help it because I hunt all week), others take on other duties and some, (whom I love dearly btw) divvy up the potting. There's about 5 people in total who do it. We have one potter for ranking purposes and since we only have 2 brisingamens (god items not so common on Classic) only one player could pot at full efficiency at a time anyway. So  thanks for your concern but I think we have it under control.

 

If by "that kind of scene" you're worried about playing against people who benefit from easy rides and cheating, I'll just bluntly say that is weak. There's nothing more satisfying than beating them.

 

If you want to know what the macros do, here....  this is what it does.
 

 

$F1::
while GetKeyState("F1", "P")  ; While the F1 key is being held down physically.
{
send {f1}
sleep 20

}
return

 

 

Basically, they hold down F1 and it spams F1. It stops when they let go. Essentially it is rapidfire instead of moving your fingers up and down.

 

Really bad right?

Edited by Xellie, 10 September 2014 - 01:24 AM.

[renouille]

An example of a macro is: you press a key, which translates to:
- move mouse cursor to x1, y1
- press left mouse button
- move mouse cursor to x2, y2
- release left mouse button
- wait a little bit, then press 2, 0, 0, enter

It's faster and less error-prone than trying to do all of that manually, but you still have to invoke it very often and at the right times, and it's very limited in what it can do.

In contrast, with a bot you'd just start it up, go off to make a pizza, and return to find all your work completed.