17 replies to this topic

[Leonis]

Hello everyone, Developer Leonis here.

 

Many of you may already know who I am, some may not. For those who do not, I am one of the developers for ROSE Online. I help give the direction ROSE development takes and sometimes have to make hard choices. But I'm not here to talk about that this time, instead I wanted to offer a reminder as it seems many have a stuck belief or may just be simply unaware.

 

ROSE Online is an MMORPG, that is free to play, with an Item Mall you can purchase various helpful items, equipment and costumes from. This Item Mall, is how we're able to continue servicing ROSE, and keep development going. We have been making the effort to have our Item Mall not be considered something called "pay to win."

 

Being "pay to win" typically means you are forced to pay or purchase something from the Item Mall, in order to be stronger, or simply be able to advance in some way you cannot in-game.

 

The recent update added some remaining items that fit under that, and these items are now available in-game. Though some may see the cost and feel it is high, from our viewpoint, these items are permanent and only need to be purchased once. They add a difference to your character's ability, and for that we feel the cost should be of high effort to earn. It does mean playing more, which is a goal for us to create for you as a player, goals!

 

But I digressed, what I wanted to bring up is that there is a feeling or mentality that we're somehow forcing you to use the Item Mall. I want you all to know, that 100% of the Item Mall is not forced upon you. That being said, yes we want to make it enticing! So it is encouraged to be used, but not because we want to drain you of your life's blood or ability to survive in real life. Though some moves may feel like we're money driven, it is not the sole truth. There are some times design reasons and though some of you may not agree with the decisions, we do it with the best of intentions and reasons for ROSE to have a better future. It may or may not always be up front apparent, but that is something we want to ask you to trust us on. We know you all love ROSE, and we do too. We will always do our best for ROSE and its community. Because it makes no sense to try and make game not be fun. We want you to have fun, but we also want the game to be fun and fair for everyone to enjoy.

 

TL;DR

Recent additions to skills are all available in-game, and on the Item Mall.

 

Special Note!

The Valor Shop didn't properly get updated with the skill listings, and that is why it seems like they're only available through the Item Mall as of this moment. This will be fixed as soon as possible (September 18th's follow up maintenance)

 

Spoiler

For the few who questioned why we were doing the update on a Tuesday. Now you know. In case there were issues we needed to fix, we got 1 day to find and fix them all (Wednesday) and patch after (Thursday). We have many other little bugs that appeared ready to be fixed tomorrow as well.

[Krzy]

I, for one love the new patch and update.
If no one has said it yet.
Thank you!!

[Feuer]

Yeap, im overly satisfied with this, so much more to farm, so much more to build and create, thoroughly pleased. 

[ChampPower]

Is this game not the "free to play, pay to win"? Let's take a look; shall we? With the new update we have 3 options.

Option 1: it costs about 6.6k IM points to fully equip 1 character. That is equal to about 60 dollars. Most players have more than 10 characters, but let's count 10 into the equation. The total amount of IM is 66K IM points, which is about 600 dollars. The good news is your characters will be fully equip in 1 hours or less.

Option 2: honor point. You would need 35k honor point per char, or 350k honor points for 10 char. Let's assume a play earn 150 point per war, with the new honor passive bonus (because some war you win and some war you lose, oh the passive cost money btw), you would need to play more than 233 wars to equip 1 char or 2,330 wars for 10 char. then let's assume you play 3 war per day continuously, you would need to play 78 day for 1 character or 780 days for 10 chars. See the big different between less than 1 hours VS. More than 2 years.

Option 3: valor point. If you think it is bad with option 2, then option 3 will push you into the unrealistic realm. You would need 175k Valor point to equip 1 char, or 1.75 MILLION points to equip 10 char because we have the 5:1 exchange rate between Valor and Honor points. With the passive, 1 run of HOO wiki yield about 100 Valors points, which means you need to play 1,750 HOO to equip 1 char or 17,500 runs to equip 10 characters. An average players plays 5 dungeons per day, so you would need to play 350 days to equips 1 character or 3,500 days to equips 10 characters.

Now, let's be honest. Which option would you choose: less than 1 hour, more than 2 years, or nearly 10 years? And that is only assume, the player only want to equip 10 characters. You are correct in saying that players are not forced to buy IM nor getting the passive, Leo. But players need to have all the passive if they want to win because every bit count in PVP. In other words, who have their char full equipped have the advantage? And the quickest way is to pay, so why is it NOT the "pay to win"?

Edited by Leonis, 18 September 2014 - 08:39 AM.

[xultrax]

... And the quickest way is to pay, so why is it NOT the "pay to win"?

You just said it . its the quickest way.. but its not obligatory, if you want to do dungeons and grind for gear as some people do cool you can do it! .

 

if you still dont get it let me analize the definition for you:

 

"Being "pay to win" typically means you are forced to pay or purchase something from the Item Mall, in order to be stronger, or simply be able to advance in some way you cannot in-game."

 

Example of p2w: (1)Wanna reach lv 230? Then you have to buy The teleticket to teleport to Orlo and keep leveling!.

(2) Want this passive that gives 40000% enhance damage? Only available in IM for 400 points. 

 

Can you obtain the passives outside Im? Yes you can, that makes it not p2w.

And stop asuming everyone has 10 characters . You might have 10 characters but some people might like to just focus on 3 .

 

Finally, i just wanna add the only thing i dont like about this update is that it makes the distance between old and new players even bigger, making it harder for new players to progress but i have no idea on how to fix this hehe :x.

[ChampPower]

You just said it . its the quickest way.. but its not obligatory, if you want to do dungeons and grind for gear as some people do cool you can do it! .

if you still dont get it let me analize the definition for you:

"Being "pay to win" typically means you are forced to pay or purchase something from the Item Mall, in order to be stronger, or simply be able to advance in some way you cannot in-game."

Example of p2w: (1)Wanna reach lv 230? Then you have to buy The teleticket to teleport to Orlo and keep leveling!.
(2) Want this passive that gives 40000% enhance damage? Only available in IM for 400 points.

Can you obtain the passives outside Im? Yes you can, that makes it not p2w.
And stop asuming everyone has 10 characters . You might have 10 characters but some people might like to just focus on 3 .

Finally, i just wanna add the only thing i dont like about this update is that it makes the distance between old and new players even bigger, making it harder for new players to progress but i have no idea on how to fix this hehe :x.

Ok, I also included 1 char calculation in my previous post. Which would you choose: less than 1 hour, more than 2 months, or nearly a year? If you choose the more than 2 months option and other players choose the less than 1 hours option, there is a high probability that your time will be a lot longer than 2 months. Half the year is a possibility. Care to show me you have enough patient to war everyday for half the year? Assuming there are wars, everyday.

Edited by ChampPower, 17 September 2014 - 06:10 PM.

[HoneyBunz]

Is this game not the "free to play, pay to win"? Let's take a look; shall we? With the new update we have 3 options.

Option 1: it costs about 6.6k IM points to fully equip 1 character. That is equal to about 60 dollars. Most players have more than 10 characters, but let's count 10 into the equation. The total amount of IM is 66K IM points, which is about 600 dollars. The good news is your characters will be fully equip in 1 hours or less.

Option 2: honor point. You would need 35k honor point per char, or 350k honor points for 10 char. Let's assume a play earn 150 point per war, with the new honor passive bonus (because some war you win and some war you lose, oh the passive cost money btw), you would need to play more than 233 wars to equip 1 char or 2,330 wars for 10 char. then let's assume you play 3 war per day continuously, you would need to play 78 day for 1 character or 780 days for 10 chars. See the big different between less than 1 hours VS. More than 2 years.

Option 3: vapor point. If you think it is bad with option 2, then option 3 will push you into the unrealistic realm. You would need 175k Valor point to equip 1 char, or 1.75 MILLION points to equip 10 char because we have the 5:1 exchange rate between Valor and Honor points. With the passive, 1 run of HOO wiki yield about 100 Valors points, which means you need to play 1,750 HOO to equip 1 char or 17,500 runs to equip 10 characters. An average players plays 5 dungeons per day, so you would need to play 350 days to equips 1 character or 3,500 days to equips 10 characters.

Now, let's be honest. Which option would you choose: less than 1 hour, more than 2 years, or nearly 10 years? And that is only assume, the player only want to equip 10 characters. You are correct in saying that players are not forced to buy IM nor getting the passive, Leo. But players need to have all the passive if they want to win because every bit count in PVP. In other words, who have their char full equipped have the advantage? And the quickest way is to pay, so why is it NOT the "pay to win"?

 

I see nothing wrong with this patch or the gem system changes. No one is forcing me to get any of the new passives and since they are available in the valor shop too, I can get the ones I decide I need that way tho tbh it would be just as easy to buy them. That's a decision I'll make on each character as necessary.

 

You used 10 characters in your example- currently I have over that many at various levels. Even if I had 100 characters, I would still be playing them 1 or 2 at a time so equipping them will be a process just as it has been for my main characters which are almost 230 now. I realize that if you have been playing for awhile here, you have more maxed characters that will need some tweaking but even so, you still can only play them a few at a time, especially in a war or one of the pvp games. If you concentrate on one character at a time, you can change or enhance that one then start on the next. It may take some time but I plan to be playing Rose for years to come so that's not an issue for me. It's pretty impossible to get everything that you want in life instantly, so why would a game be any different?

 

You have one point of view and you are entitled to that ofc. But none of what you said applies to me and I'm sure that just as there are some that agree with you, there are also many that feel as I do.  I'm glad to see some changes in Rose because this game is very old and remaining stagnant is not the answer if we want to be able to play in the future as well as today and tomorrow.

[ChampPower]

I see nothing wrong with this patch or the gem system changes. No one is forcing me to get any of the new passives and since they are available in the valor shop too, I can get the ones I decide I need that way tho tbh it would be just as easy to buy them. That's a decision I'll make on each character as necessary.

You used 10 characters in your example- currently I have over that many at various levels. Even if I had 100 characters, I would still be playing them 1 or 2 at a time so equipping them will be a process just as it has been for my main characters which are almost 230 now. I realize that if you have been playing for awhile here, you have more maxed characters that will need some tweaking but even so, you still can only play them a few at a time, especially in a war or one of the pvp games. If you concentrate on one character at a time, you can change or enhance that one then start on the next. It may take some time but I plan to be playing Rose for years to come so that's not an issue for me. It's pretty impossible to get everything that you want in life instantly, so why would a game be any different?

You have one point of view and you are entitled to that ofc. But none of what you said applies to me and I'm sure that just as there are some that agree with you, there are also many that feel as I do. I'm glad to see some changes in Rose because this game is very old and remaining stagnant is not the answer if we want to be able to play in the future as well as today and tomorrow.

It is not true at all.

First, the valor shops do not have the new passive skills. All of those new passive skills are in honor shop, so if you only have Valor points, you have to trade those Valor points for Honor points at the 5 to 1 ratio (5 Valor for 1 Honor).

Second, the Honor shops do not have all the new passive skills in IM. All the new passive skills under General tab in the Skill tab of the IM shop are exclusive to IM shop. Those new passive skills cannot be obtained in game. That reminds me about Leo's and Xultrax's definition of "pay to win". I quote, "Being pay to win typically means you are forced to pay or purchase something from Item Mall, in order to be stronger, or simply be able to advance in some way you CANNOT in-game."

In other words, even if you chose the option 2 or option 3, you still have to pay a set amount of money to equip your character.

Edited by ChampPower, 17 September 2014 - 06:33 PM.

[GooglyEyes]

I, too, wanna thank the Developers for this awesome update. Finally there is something to do again, something that will keep us players busy for a while

[Feuer]

Valor*

[UziDude]

I'm with the others, that have already stated it, I love the new gems and the change to some stats.  I've already been crazy farming valor points on my cleric to obtain many of the new gems.  Now she has an even greater purpose other than  just helping others level and such.  Now she is my valor point farmer as well.   I'll use her mostly to farm for the new gems that some of the other chars need, but cannot farm for themselves yet.  Thanks. 

[siamore]

The old gem can turn to [9]? or they max at `7? since it seem the new gems got up to 9 different "levels"

[IAfjiBa]

Hello Leonis And The Other Developers   !
 
I think you guys totally are awesome. You have been doing a great job and you still do! You answer the community's questions with a simple list or a live stream! 
 
You have made so many new stuff into this game like. Storage uppdate, I just gonna say that uppdate ROCKS! Gem uppdate ROCKS also and many other uppdates rock also! Just think about 1 year ago. What did we do then? We didn't have a gem uppdate, we wasen't done with the skill uppdate, think about how much unbalance it was 1 year ago between classes, game arena, we didn't have MODs, we didn't have ROSE Class Representative. Now we have all that. There is no over power class now. Game Arena is so good! You can sign up for a game anywhere in Rose! 
 
I am amaze by you guys becuse when you say '' I love rose and I care about the game '' it's 110% true. Becuse I think honestly you guys have worked alot more then you need to. If there is a problem about the game for exemple the database uppdate. You didn't go home and said '' We take it tomorrow '' You guys stayed there all the time (I guess) to fix the problem and you fixed the problem!
 
When a bug is reported I always get the answer '' It will be fixed by the next uppdate '' and that is also true! That is another thing why you guys rock. You guys lisent to the community. What we think. What we want. Of course there are some stuff we dont like that you change but I trust you guys and I think its are more players that also think like that. '' We maybe don't like it, but we can live with it, if it only help. ''
 
I think if we had other developers we woulnd't  been where we are today.
You guys brought us together and we made a  community together and I just need to say. Thank you alot. I love this community. I love Rose.  and of course I love you guys 
                            
Thank you once again 
 
 

[pdfisher]

First, the valor shops do not have the new passive skills. All of those new passive skills are in honor shop, so if you only have Valor points, you have to trade those Valor points for Honor points at the 5 to 1 ratio (5 Valor for 1 Honor).

 

Look below, Leo answered this in his OP.

Hello everyone, Developer Leonis here.

 

Special Note!

The Valor Shop didn't properly get updated with the skill listings, and that is why it seems like they're only available through the Item Mall as of this moment. This will be fixed as soon as possible (September 18th's follow up maintenance)

 

I for one, am pretty pleased with this update. Again, as I stated before, my one main concern is that with the change to the Valor Reward Bonus Skill, and the addition of the Honor Reward Bonus Skills, Honor and Valor points are far too easy to get now, taking away from any challenge the game had left.  However, I do approve of the changes to catalysts: this makes refining a bit harder, and actually puts a challenge back in to the game. I hope eventually, you will add the possibility of an item breaking back in to the refine process. Leo, please consider making some things harder to obtain, we need a few more challenges in this game.

[Filipito98]

first wat we should say is

THANK YOU DEVS FOR KEEP THE GAME ALIVE, AND ALSO THANK YOU TO THE PLAYERS WHO SUPPORTED DEVS FOR BUY IM.

thats wat we should say, every game need some parts wich it costs real money, thats normal, as ik im not a im player, got some IM stuffs by like, helping friends, asking friends for use temp (still need to give to my buddy the costume but need also to get one), i have a IM skill (revive IM) wich it costs me like a few money (mutch maybe but i could, friends also helped me) many ppl helped me, wat i did? i also helped them, i dont like mutch asking mutch to ppl but srsly, thnks for everyone who gived me help, but also thanks to devs for keep the game alive, this game can be a game wich we dont need to buy IM, i u guys arent in a rush is easy, but it takes times, u need to farm mutch stuffs, but also ofc maybe we should buy some IM stuffs for support them

im happy than the game is alive, if wasnt IM the game was already death

Let's we keep supporting them, they atm the one who can keep alive the game, but also u guys should have a lil more devs, just saying xD

thank u guys for keep the game alive

PEACE ~Filipe

[asuboy]

To be fair and make the game less pay to win . Take out those venu, pluto, reroll hammers , skill books pasive , tele ticket , those key and whats so ever, just sell costumes on IM now thats a fair game to play dont forget skill reset and status reset only at IM right ???? I hope im wrong

[TaeNiMiku]

Personally, I just love everything new or revised that was added into the game. There's even more to do, and more to do with Valor and Honor points too as they can be either sold or acquire the passives that was exclusive to the Item Mall before.

Just my opinion regarding the "difficulty" in having all the passives for your characters: the difficulty of getting your needed Valor and Honor may vary but as for me, I don't mind it. ROSE is a MMORPG, and thus I want it to last for not just months, but for years. Allowing multiple accounts for free defeats the purpose of multiple characters on one account (not to mention, multiple e-mail accounts for more WarpPortal and hence, more accounts), and I may not know the impact on the servers, but I think we should be grateful of that. You're playing, say, 3-5 characters at once, yet you do it for free.

Sometimes, I wonder how many players there really are in ROSE due to players having more than one active at a time. In my opinion, if one plays multiple accounts at once, he or she should at least help the developers/moderators/etc with some cash to maintain this game. It's either money or time that you can choose to spend in order to grow in this game, and it's not even forced. If one creates multiple characters, it's his own responsibility and also in his own discretion of placing additional goals, such as making that other character strong.

I myself am relatively new to this game (6 months or so), and with so much to do (I thought I'm done with my Knight, but there's even more to do~!), and so much characters still possible to play (I want to try out every class), I'm just happy that I'll be staying here for a long, long time. I suggest that, if you enjoy a game (especially with MMOs), and you want it to last, the least you can do is to help the guys maintaining it through a little cash. Personally, if I enjoy a game, I pay for it, even if only in the form of Premium Membership (which is a non-mandatory Monthly Payment if related to other MMO). If you have no means to do so, then simply play for free, and perhaps someday, you can help. I confess that I don't have a lot to help the developers (I'm only a teacher), but I hope what little I give helps.


I have a side question though. Let's say this game gets enough resources and time to prompt even more content such as new planets, will it be made as intended by ROSE's original creators? (This means access to the whole storyline, designs, etc, to create the intended storyline, designs, etc., by the original creators) Or perhaps will it be upon the discretion of the developers? No need to answer this of course, since it's just a random random.

Edited by Zurn, 26 September 2014 - 02:08 PM.

[pdfisher]

I have a side question though. Let's say this game gets enough resources and time to prompt even more content such as new planets, will it be made as intended by ROSE's original creators? (This means access to the whole storyline, designs, etc, to create the intended storyline, designs, etc., by the original creators) Or perhaps will it be upon the discretion of the developers? No need to answer this of course, since it's just a random random.

 

I think it might be a bit of both.