142 replies to this topic

[Feuer]

Its not even possible to get 50%+ when refining from 12 to 13, even with max % materials being used(venu, neptrune & lisent U.

 

Imagine being a doctor who tells a patient he has 40% to survive. Do u think a patient would be happy to hear that?

 

Patient may not like it, but it's better then not getting the treatment and having a 0% chance. 

 

And you can't really use the Neptu + Venu as an excuse for lack of trying via the IM. You can farm all Pluto, Neptu  and Venu from GA Dungeons. So now it's all about patients. I for one have mastered the art of being patient in ROSE. After all, 10 years here and I'm still twiddling my thumbs over Karkia, Hebarn and the Fate Factions. 

[Peteer]

You can farm all Pluto, Neptu  and Venu from GA Dungeons. 

 

Thats the whole point, there's a small chance to obtain them. You need to be lucky enough that people even sing up for dungeons.

And after all ur just able to do them 3 or 4 times until your energy runs out. (except you buy IM = $$$$$)

And i know u can spend valor to buy GAE, but it costs 10 valor to get 500 GAE, these games cost 3,000 - 3,750 valor. Bang! there goes your well earned valor.

 

And even when your lucky enough to recieve a Pluto, Venu or Neptrune. Theres just a chance around of 40% that u succeed.

Edited by Peteer, 18 October 2014 - 08:57 AM.

[Feuer]

Thats the whole point, there's a small chance to obtain them. You need to be lucky enough that people even sing up for dungeons.

And after all ur just able to do them 3 or 4 times until your energy runs out. (except you buy IM = $$$$$)

And i know u can spend valor to buy GAE, but it costs 10 valor to get 500 GAE, these games cost 3,000 - 3,750 valor. Bang! there goes your well earned valor.

 

And even when your lucky enough to recieve a Pluto, Venu or Neptrune. Theres just a chance around of 40% that u succeed.

 

You only lose 1/3 of your valor to the cost, to gain GAE to run them an unlimited amounts of times that day, 

Also, you don't need to be lucky to get dungeon runs, you need to not be lazy. I don't even try to run them, people just invite me and qeue.

and 40% is still better then 20, or 10, or 1%. So I'd rather have that than nothing. 

Edited by Feuer, 18 October 2014 - 11:09 PM.

[WeatherMan]

Thats the whole point, there's a small chance to obtain them. You need to be lucky enough that people even sing up for dungeons.

And after all ur just able to do them 3 or 4 times until your energy runs out. (except you buy IM = $$$$$)

And i know u can spend valor to buy GAE, but it costs 10 valor to get 500 GAE, these games cost 3,000 - 3,750 valor. Bang! there goes your well earned valor.

 

And even when your lucky enough to recieve a Pluto, Venu or Neptrune. Theres just a chance around of 40% that u succeed.

All you need is 2 characters to run unlimited dungeons (if you wanna farm those venu/plutos). Do dungeons until you have no energy left on the first one. Switch. Do them on the second one, and while you are doing them on the second one all the energy is restored on you first character. BAM! Problem solved. No need to spend extra $ or valor on energy. Geez people use your heads -.-

P.S. Dungeons are packed with people. Hasnt been a day in the last 2 months that i had to wait for one to start.

Edited by WeatherMan, 19 October 2014 - 12:40 AM.

[Filipito98]

All you need is 2 characters to run unlimited dungeons (if you wanna farm those venu/plutos). Do dungeons until you have no energy left on the first one. Switch. Do them on the second one, and while you are doing them on the second one all the energy is restored on you first character. BAM! Problem solved. No need to spend extra $ or valor on energy. Geez people use your heads -.-

P.S. Dungeons are packed with people. Hasnt been a day in the last 2 months that i had to wait for one to start.

what he said is right, but depends the DG time and the classe in DG, if there's no cleric, players will start kicking ppl starting with weaks for a cleric get in, wich is rlly stupid ...., btw idk if 2 chars is enought, last times i did DGs i needed 3 chars for full day DGing o. o

[Feuer]

what he said is right, but depends the DG time and the classe in DG, if there's no cleric, players will start kicking ppl starting with weaks for a cleric get in, wich is rlly stupid ...., btw idk if 2 chars is enought, last times i did DGs i needed 3 chars for full day DGing o. o

 

That's not entirely accurate, I can't begin to tell you how many dungeons I've ran without a cleric. I can even say I've solo'd a dungeon on my dual raider. At that time it was built solely for PvM, so I had an advantage slightly, but the case remains dungeons are neither hard, nor do they always require a cleric. Any practiced player knows this. 

Edited by Feuer, 19 October 2014 - 09:34 AM.

[Leeny]

That's not entirely accurate, I can't begin to tell you how many dungeons I've ran without a cleric. I can even say I've solo'd a dungeon on my dual raider. At that time it was built solely for PvM, so I had an advantage slightly, but the case remains dungeons are neither hard, nor do they always require a cleric. Any practiced player knows this. 

 

I agree with feuer here, dungeon can be done with our without clerics and I have also ran a dungeon solo, yes it was my knight and yes it took along time but it can still be accomplished

[thetrangdamvn]

That's not entirely accurate, I can't begin to tell you how many dungeons I've ran without a cleric. I can even say I've solo'd a dungeon on my dual raider. At that time it was built solely for PvM, so I had an advantage slightly, but the case remains dungeons are neither hard, nor do they always require a cleric. Any practiced player knows this. 

 

 

I agree with feuer here, dungeon can be done with our without clerics and I have also ran a dungeon solo, yes it was my knight and yes it took along time but it can still be accomplished

 

Although many of us maybe knowledeable about this fact, bunch of players still don't, or refuse to accept this wonderful fact.

What's more serious here is, they mislead new players, make those new players have bad habits. (Kick people, afk, auto attack at the boss...etc)

 

I personally am against this idea. Instead of auto attack, why not skillwise? Yes, a practiced player will know this, but a lot don't and even misled.

(It doesn't make sense telling a mage or launcher bourg to "normal attack only"!? They should take advantage of their strength!

Telling others to "normal attack" is just because you might be lazy to; ie...even heal (clerics)

I consider these "superstition".)

[Charas]

Saying you can solo dungeons is purely irrelevant, but congratulations on that achievement. You always have to consider that things have to be accessible to experienced players... full refined 15.... with billions.... but also to normal beginer with their refine 6 npc set.

It is not possible for a normal beginner to success in this game anymore as things are. I just leveled a new char, freshly 200... i can tell u that 95% of everyone i saw ingame were botting non stop.... I even got bashed on for not having a bot.. lol. The amount of lisent dropped during the lvling process cannot even cover more than 2 refine 10 items... not even going to talk about the durability that makes u have to go bk to the city every 10 minutes.

 

well... all that to say that, as a new comer you just cannot farm the items you need to get your equipment done, in fact, as things are, you need to have your equipments done already to be able to farm what you need to make your equipment.... yes yes, there s no logic in that, but that s how things are.

 

So if you ask me if at any time a newcomer can dream about making a refine 15 on his own, without ever using IM, buying zulies, or stuff like that... i say : NO, this isn t going to happen.

 

Balance is horribly done as things are right now, mobs are way to hard, hit way too strong, and drop way to few interesting things to make this game attractive to new players. Ofcourse if u got a full charm cleric... a geared soldier to sacrifice... using bots on 4 accounts... you can level very fast! (that s what ppl are doing btw, i hope you do read that Leonis, because at some point you do have to see the facts and take actions).

You are a noob just starting in the game... you basically can t do anything on your own, you have to rely on the possible party you may find (begging for it), and onced you are accepted in a party, you ll just realise ppl are botting and you ll eventually get horribly bored. Once you manage to reach lvl 200 (if you didn t quit before), you ll go try and refine a bit your equipment... and doh! you won t even manage to have a +10 set (blue with horrible crappy stats, and no weapons).

 

Making a + 15? not gonna happen as a normal new player.

 

Edit : you'll tell me that new players are indeed not supposed to make +15s, but as everything in this game IS balanced around +15 stats, and as every regular players already have a +15 set they were able to aquire way way easier (higher exp, higher drop rates, high refine rates) it make ROSE being one of the least beginner friendly game out there at the moment. Things do really have to change.

Edited by Charas, 20 October 2014 - 03:25 AM.

[Feuer]

Saying you can solo dungeons is purely irrelevant, but congratulations on that achievement. You always have to consider that things have to be accessible to experienced players... full refined 15.... with billions.... but also to normal beginer with their refine 6 npc set.

Consider these two facts:

1: I can solo a dungeon with a raider in reinf 9's. Which you can get without ever using a single lisent or powder. Just keep spamming the runes until you hit 9, and it won't even take that long.

2: A knight can solo a dungeon, in level 50 brave eq's. Those eq's, clean, only cost about 550valor, which I've proven can be farmed in less then 40 minutes by questing alone.

 

It is not possible for a normal beginner to success in this game anymore as things are

Yes, it quite easily can appear so to those who lack even an ounce of effort. I've proven this many many times by dropping billions of my wealth, or selling it. And withing weeks, will have earned a few billion, a few months even more, after 5 months, I can afford multiple rare items or +15 sets. It's just about playing smart and not frivolously.

. I just leveled a new char, freshly 200... i can tell u that 95% of everyone i saw ingame were botting non stop.... I even got bashed on for not having a bot.. lol. The amount of lisent dropped during the lvling process cannot even cover more than 2 refine 10 items... not even going to talk about the durability that makes u have to go bk to the city every 10 minutes.

2 Refine 10 items provide significantly less benefit then 5 refined 7 items. Which is so easily done that it's quite hilarious. Like I just mentioned, play smart, not frivolously. 

 

well... all that to say that, as a new comer you just cannot farm the items you need to get your equipment done, in fact, as things are, you need to have your equipments done already to be able to farm what you need to make your equipment.... yes yes, there s no logic in that, but that s how things are.

No, that's how they appear to be. This is in part due to the past free-trade system. It made it so no one technically had to earn anything for many years, they would simply just exchange sets. This made "earning" gear seem soo effortless, that once the binds were placed in, people suddenly realized how much determination it takes just to farm a clean honor set, or the time investment it takes to collect a full Exalted set. Of course they screamed it was unfair, but it's always been like that with a few rare cases where drops were in fact too plentiful. 

 

So if you ask me if at any time a newcomer can dream about making a refine 15 on his own, without ever using IM, buying zulies, or stuff like that... i say : NO, this isn t going to happen.

Then you sir give up too easily. +15's are now going to be for the elite, persistent and all around determined. Even with item mall, you never have a guarantee that it will work and the refine will be successful. It can still fail, and still degrade even with the IM runes. 

 

Balance is horribly done as things are right now, mobs are way to hard, hit way too strong, and drop way to few interesting things to make this game attractive to new players. Ofcourse if u got a full charm cleric... a geared soldier to sacrifice... using bots on 4 accounts... you can level very fast! (that s what ppl are doing btw, i hope you do read that Leonis, because at some point you do have to see the facts and take actions).

This fact has been known for years, it's nothing new.

You are a noob just starting in the game... you basically can t do anything on your own, you have to rely on the possible party you may find (begging for it), and onced you are accepted in a party, you ll just realise ppl are botting and you ll eventually get horribly bored. Once you manage to reach lvl 200 (if you didn t quit before), you ll go try and refine a bit your equipment... and doh! you won t even manage to have a +10 set (blue with horrible crappy stats, and no weapons).

You can do things and level on your own. There are so many early game quests that it's quite sucky that they trail off by the mid 120's into almost nothing. I've leveled many lowbies throughout the years off of certain quests, it's quite effective and fast if you consider the alternative of trying to 'grind' solo.

 

Making a + 15? not gonna happen as a normal new player.

Again, persistence. 

 

Edit : you'll tell me that new players are indeed not supposed to make +15s, but as everything in this game IS balanced around +15 stats, and as every regular players already have a +15 set they were able to aquire way way easier (higher exp, higher drop rates, high refine rates) it make ROSE being one of the least beginner friendly game out there at the moment. Things do really have to change.

 

Balances have actually shifted. They're now focused on the core design aspects. Those core aspects are then balanced to relative proportions equally to all classes.

Gear balances are restricted to a formula and scale that progresses higher in values as the level of the character is increased.

Between those two balancing methods, much more balance has been achieved as of late, then prior when you'd only ever see 2-3 classes in Wars/UW/CW etc.

Also, you're right, +15's aren't for newbies. They're for people who have farmed, shown the pa... I'm not even going to repeat myself on this one anymore. It's quite clear. 

Edited by Feuer, 20 October 2014 - 03:46 AM.

[pdfisher]

Saying you can solo dungeons is purely irrelevant, but congratulations on that achievement. You always have to consider that things have to be accessible to experienced players... full refined 15.... with billions.... but also to normal beginer with their refine 6 npc set.

It is not possible for a normal beginner to success in this game anymore as things are. I just leveled a new char, freshly 200... i can tell u that 95% of everyone i saw ingame were botting non stop.... I even got bashed on for not having a bot.. lol. The amount of lisent dropped during the lvling process cannot even cover more than 2 refine 10 items... not even going to talk about the durability that makes u have to go bk to the city every 10 minutes.

 

You don't need =15s to solo a dungeon. Sure they help, but they aren't necessary. You can get to =10 without using any catalysts, you just need to keep spamming the runes until you succeed. As for botters, that is a whole different subject. I agree that it is almost impossible to get a party anymore, because everyone is botting. I have been trying to level my artisan on Draco for months now, and she is stuck at 184 because I can't get a party for her. Everytime I go to ruins, everyone is botting there. So I go to Marsh of Ghosts, and solo there. I tried doing the quests at the prison, but since she can't decloak the mobs, she can't do them. IMO, the devs need to address the botting problem more than anything else.

 

well... all that to say that, as a new comer you just cannot farm the items you need to get your equipment done, in fact, as things are, you need to have your equipments done already to be able to farm what you need to make your equipment.... yes yes, there s no logic in that, but that s how things are.

 

I disagree with this. You can farm most of what you need. It would be nice if more people vended crafted low level items, but I make do with yellows if that is all I can get.

 

So if you ask me if at any time a newcomer can dream about making a refine 15 on his own, without ever using IM, buying zulies, or stuff like that... i say : NO, this isn t going to happen.

 

Since Plutos, and Venus are now available in game, you can indeed refine without ever using IM.

 

Balance is horribly done as things are right now, mobs are way to hard, hit way too strong, and drop way to few interesting things to make this game attractive to new players. Ofcourse if u got a full charm cleric... a geared soldier to sacrifice... using bots on 4 accounts... you can level very fast! (that s what ppl are doing btw, i hope you do read that Leonis, because at some point you do have to see the facts and take actions).

You are a noob just starting in the game... you basically can t do anything on your own, you have to rely on the possible party you may find (begging for it), and onced you are accepted in a party, you ll just realise ppl are botting and you ll eventually get horribly bored. Once you manage to reach lvl 200 (if you didn t quit before), you ll go try and refine a bit your equipment... and doh! you won t even manage to have a +10 set (blue with horrible crappy stats, and no weapons).

 

I totally disagree with this. If you are fighting mobs at your level (yellow ones), you should have no problems (bosses excluded here). The thing is, most people try to fight mobs way above their level, trying to get more XP. Well it doesn't always work like that. Sometimes you can get just as much XP fighting a lower level mob. Plus you can kill it faster.

 

Making a + 15? not gonna happen as a normal new player.

 

Again I disagree. If someone is willing to put the time into it, they can do it.

 

Edit : you'll tell me that new players are indeed not supposed to make +15s, but as everything in this game IS balanced around +15 stats, and as every regular players already have a +15 set they were able to aquire way way easier (higher exp, higher drop rates, high refine rates) it make ROSE being one of the least beginner friendly game out there at the moment. Things do really have to change.

 

I can agree with things changing, but not the way you seem to want it. Too many things in this game are just given, players dont' hardly have to EARN anything anymore. This game needs more challenges brought into it, not less. The only thing in this game that revolves around  +15s is PvP. The rest you can do fine without them. If a player is smart, he can even participate in GA games with no max refined gear, and still get some points. Given time, and effort, and yes: zulie, a new player can eventually get their gears to 15.

 

[Filipito98]

I do agree with trang, not cause he's only my friend but cause he's right, mages arent a auto atack class, if they have magic skills they should use it, not auto atack, many ppl get bored due easy DG (auto atack and sala only) and quit dging like me .... If a class have skills they should take advantage of them, raider dual deals more damage using skills than only normal, same as mages

[Feuer]

Perhaps it's time I do a let's play series and start dispelling some of these myths. 

[Charas]

So, about dungeons, I'm curious to see how many dungeon runs you would need to fully refine a set to +15, and how many hours you would need to farm yourself enougth lisents to do it.

 

The main problem is that it was way easier before than it is now, wich make it really not balanced for newcomers. Most of you are playing this game for years, having billions and incredible stocks, have your own shops, your own clerics, with your own all geared farmers, and you completly fail to see what it feels like for new players to come on a game alone, where it s very hard to find anyone to level with, and where gears that 99% of the players already have would take a year to have.

I did play at a time where everything was way harder than it was now, but the difference was that it was the same difficulty for everyone! never at some point someone had it easy to make +8 equips.... or never at some point ppl spent less than 4 weeks+ to lvl from 200 to 210.

Now most of you guys had it all, easy lvl, easy refine, easy farming, you are sitting on what u farmed before, and the amount of money yo are doing only doing some buy/sell. But you all find it normal that new players have it so hard to achieve on their own what you could do way easier back then. 

Well, breaking news : this is not how a mmo is working, new caps... new gears.... should always be hard to obtain... and within time, easier way to obtain those should be implemented in order to give the feeling to potential new players that they do have a chance to catch up and be competitive (this is the model used in countless mmos...). In ROSE right now it s the complete oposite... how do you expect having new players coming and keeping the game alive? It s like you all completly fail to see that at some point the only thing that keeps a game alive is a steady amount of new players, because nearly all old players quit at some point.

About leveling, this is the same deal, poeple having friends, gears, multiple accounts.... clerics, they can level very fast. But a newbies? unable to find any party, seeing everyone afk botting, and not dropping valuable things... Do you really expect him to go 1vs1 and single target mobs with no buffs? common be real.... this is just not attractive, it takes 20 times more time to do that! 

 

For me it s just highly hippocrite to say that making a +15 nowadays is completly fine... just a matter of time and effort... but those saying it are either... selling IM to get zulies, either have their +15 since ages and had it easy to refine it.

 

Im completly against this %reduced on refining... it is not going in the right direction at all.... I can understand that it might have been done thinking about some new gear sets that might come one day... but if it s the case, the could just have nerfed the base% of this new item grade (that s how it should be anyway... higher level equipment should have higher fail rate / -refine) and if the staff is thinking that refine 10++ are too easy, they should have nerfed the item mall venurunes instead of nerfing ingame dropped lisents.

 

I get it... you all want a more challenging game.... where things take a long time and a lot of effort to aquiere... and where you already have everything yourself, this is just silly.... way to make any new players run away from the game.

 

[pdfisher]

So, about dungeons, I'm curious to see how many dungeon runs you would need to fully refine a set to +15, and how many hours you would need to farm yourself enougth lisents to do it.

 

The main problem is that it was way easier before than it is now, wich make it really not balanced for newcomers. Most of you are playing this game for years, having billions and incredible stocks, have your own shops, your own clerics, with your own all geared farmers, and you completly fail to see what it feels like for new players to come on a game alone, where it s very hard to find anyone to level with, and where gears that 99% of the players already have would take a year to have.

I did play at a time where everything was way harder than it was now, but the difference was that it was the same difficulty for everyone! never at some point someone had it easy to make +8 equips.... or never at some point ppl spent less than 4 weeks+ to lvl from 200 to 210.

Now most of you guys had it all, easy lvl, easy refine, easy farming, you are sitting on what u farmed before, and the amount of money yo are doing only doing some buy/sell. But you all find it normal that new players have it so hard to achieve on their own what you could do way easier back then. 

Well, breaking news : this is not how a mmo is working, new caps... new gears.... should always be hard to obtain... and within time, easier way to obtain those should be implemented in order to give the feeling to potential new players that they do have a chance to catch up and be competitive (this is the model used in countless mmos...). In ROSE right now it s the complete oposite... how do you expect having new players coming and keeping the game alive? It s like you all completly fail to see that at some point the only thing that keeps a game alive is a steady amount of new players, because nearly all old players quit at some point.

About leveling, this is the same deal, poeple having friends, gears, multiple accounts.... clerics, they can level very fast. But a newbies? unable to find any party, seeing everyone afk botting, and not dropping valuable things... Do you really expect him to go 1vs1 and single target mobs with no buffs? common be real.... this is just not attractive, it takes 20 times more time to do that! 

 

For me it s just highly hippocrite to say that making a +15 nowadays is completly fine... just a matter of time and effort... but those saying it are either... selling IM to get zulies, either have their +15 since ages and had it easy to refine it.

 

Im completly against this %reduced on refining... it is not going in the right direction at all.... I can understand that it might have been done thinking about some new gear sets that might come one day... but if it s the case, the could just have nerfed the base% of this new item grade (that s how it should be anyway... higher level equipment should have higher fail rate / -refine) and if the staff is thinking that refine 10++ are too easy, they should have nerfed the item mall venurunes instead of nerfing ingame dropped lisents.

 

I get it... you all want a more challenging game.... where things take a long time and a lot of effort to aquiere... and where you already have everything yourself, this is just silly.... way to make any new players run away from the game.

 

You are certainly allowed your opinion and I respect that. But to call me and others hypocrites when you know nothing about us is just plain wrong. I don't want it easy to refine, it wasn't easy when I first started playing. Items broke back then, and I personally feel they should break again. Challenge is a major part of any successful game. When a game is too easy, then it gets boring, and people go find something else to do. I sold IM one or two times I think. I can't afford to buy it often, so I don't sell it. I get what I think I need, or want. So before you judge, find out a little about the people.

Edited by pdfisher, 20 October 2014 - 06:48 AM.

[angeltje]

i agree, it should not to be easy. on one side i am glad with the change that did happen. but on otherside i hope items are not gonna break. so how it is now seems for me fine makes it take longer to finish your gear and that makes the game less boring cuz you got a goal.

[DestinyDeoxys]

I'm not even gonna bother to reply to these representatives line by line, because they just never put their feet on someone's shoe, always under the assumption playing this game with full knowledge, and then try without item mall. But tell me.


"A knight can solo a dungeon, in level 50 brave eq's. Those eq's, clean, only cost about 550valor "
> Yes, everyone in this game is a knight.


"Yes, it quite easily can appear so to those who lack even an ounce of effort. I've proven this many many times by dropping billions of my wealth, or selling it. And withing weeks, will have earned a few billion, a few months even more, after 5 months, I can afford multiple rare items or +15 sets. It's just about playing smart and not frivolously."
> ROFL you just said it yourself "by dropping billions of my wealth" and "It's just about playing smart"


"This is in part due to the past free-trade system. It made it so no one technically had to earn anything for many years, they would simply just exchange sets. This made "earning" gear seem soo effortless, that once the binds were placed in, people suddenly realized how much determination it takes just to farm a clean honor set, or the time investment it takes to collect a full Exalted set."
> Imagine the real world, there is no 2nd hand car, no installment payment, you cannot use your parent's car when you are young, you can only drive when you work on your own until you can afford the full payment of the car. The trade restriction system is exactly like that. Why do you think book publisher release new edition every year or every two years, yes they want the customer to "earn" that book themselves and gain new knowledge with some grammatical error fix, reselling books on eBay, amazon is not good because this made students eanring book seem so effortless right?


Then you sir give up too easily. +15's are now going to be for the elite, persistent and all around determined. Even with item mall, you never have a guarantee that it will work and the refine will be successful. It can still fail, and still degrade even with the IM runes.
> Remember those good old days when using venurune/plutorune/neptarune yields exactly the same % chance upon refining? No, because I don't.


Since Plutos, and Venus are now available in game, you can indeed refine without ever using IM.

> Been doing dungeons since that patch for at least 30 games
> Number of in-game venus/pluto = 0 (I only see mystic charm and protective amulet being added to the drop list, but those things are still disabled)
 

 

Making a + 15? not gonna happen as a normal new player.

Again I disagree. If someone is willing to put the time into it, they can do it.
> That is only true the day when mystic charm and protective amulet enabled.


I can agree with things changing, but not the way you seem to want it. Too many things in this game are just given, players dont' hardly have to EARN anything anymore. This game needs more challenges brought into it, not less. The only thing in this game that revolves around  +15s is PvP. The rest you can do fine without them. If a player is smart, he can even participate in GA games with no max refined gear, and still get some points. Given time, and effort, and yes: zulie, a new player can eventually get their gears to 15.

> Give us all blessing passive that worths 84000 valor points in the valor shop, 28000 honor points in the honor shop, make akram kingdom, ancient royal set character lock, make everything in this game bound upon equip, the time it takes to level a 230

> Item mall user way: Buy everything up at a blink of an eye, using your zulies from selling IM to buy all medallions (inb4 you can't buy medallions from IM), 1 sea of dawn = 1 level (only took about 20 mins during double exp weekend)
> non-item mall user (play smart) way: Farm 100 WP worth of survey and buy valor reward passive, farm 500WP worth of survey to buy honor reward passive (oh wait, that isn't smart cuz it's 500 points for 30 days), farm 600WP worth of survey for premium subscription for improved drop rates for medallions, best leveling spot in orlo 2 hours = 1 level (during double exp weekend)
> non-item mall user way: buy valor reward passive from shop for 300m, use refine (10) reinforced gear to grind those 84000 valors and 28000 honors (good luck if you are a bow scout or artisan/gunbourg or battle cleric), find your own way to earn enough zulies to buy the medallions directly because with your non-drop rate gemmed reinforced gear, you are better off buying them directly, best leveling spot in orlo 2 hours = 1 level (during double exp weekend)

So, what is this called?

Spoiler

EARN

Spoiler

Remember those good old days when using item mall don't actually make a huge difference? Before 2008 when this game went free to play. (inb4 this game needs IM revenus to survive)

[Charas]

You are certainly allowed your opinion and I respect that. But to call me and others hypocrites when you know nothing about us is just plain wrong. I don't want it easy to refine, it wasn't easy when I first started playing. Items broke back then, and I personally feel they should break again. Challenge is a major part of any successful game. When a game is too easy, then it gets boring, and people go find something else to do. I sold IM one or two times I think. I can't afford to buy it often, so I don't sell it. I get what I think I need, or want. So before you judge, find out a little about the people.

 

Oh dear, you do know nothing about me either, and saying that you wish items to break again on refine while u did refine yours without any chance for it to break does make you be in an "hypocrite" way of thinking.

Players have to catch up with the current state of endgame without having it harder than what it was when they weren t playing yet.

 

Now if they were to introduce greater gears... lvl 230 ones, with waaaayyyyy better stat than our level 200 ones (higher stats unrefined than +15 200s) then I would all agree to make it break past 3 without any possibility to use plutorunes and venures, but making "regular" (as in, being around for years) items harder to refine than what it used to be... is plainly stupid.

The big difference would be that on those items old players and new players would definitly be even, while they are absolutly not when it comes to items we have now.

 

I do believe you are not getting what I'm trying to say, or you maybe don't wanna understand... either way, no big deal.

Edited by Charas, 20 October 2014 - 11:11 AM.

[pdfisher]

Oh dear, you do know nothing about me either, and saying that you wish items to break again on refine while u did refine yours without any chance for it to break does make you be in an "hypocrite" way of thinking.

Players have to catch up with the current state of endgame without having it harder than what it was when they weren t playing yet.

 

Now if they were to introduce greater gears... lvl 230 ones, with waaaayyyyy better stat than our level 200 ones (higher stats unrefined than +15 200s) then I would be all agree to make it break past 3 without any possibility to use plutorunes and venures, but making "regular" (as in, being around for years) items harder to refine than what it used to be... is plainly stupid.

The big difference would be that on those items old players and new players would definitly be even, while they are absolutly not when it comes to items we have now.

 

I do believe you are not getting what I'm trying to say, or you maybe don't wanna understand... either way, no big deal.

 

But I did refine mine with a chance of them breaking. I did use plutorunes though, so yes, I bought IM. But I only bought when I could. I was never a regular IM buyer. I would be though if I could. The more monetary support this game gets, then the more people they can hire. Again, you assume you know something about me, but you don't.  And no, I don't want it breaking at 3. The last way they had it, when it could break anywhere after +10 was fine.

[SlowBob]

@Charas:

 

The whole point is that having 15 armours shouldn't be normal, it should be a rare thing with only the top players can acchive.

Don't forget we are talking about an MMORPG, a game like rose should require dedication, maxed out gears should be pretty much unreachable. A player usually doesn't want to get stuck at a point from where he can't improve anymore.

New end-game gears will balance the refining changes out, that way people who refined their gears before the changes will be "even" to the new-commers and won't have an advantage.

[Charas]

But I did refine mine with a chance of them breaking. I did use plutorunes though, so yes, I bought IM. But I only bought when I could. I was never a regular IM buyer. I would be though if I could. The more monetary support this game gets, then the more people they can hire. Again, you assume you know something about me, but you don't.  And no, I don't want it breaking at 3. The last way they had it, when it could break anywhere after +10 was fine.

 

So you are saying you refined your gears when they could break past 10, but used plutorunes (to go around the failing possibilty) and u used lisents at their old refining rates, so all in all, it was still easier for you back then to make a +15 than it is now to make a + 15... right?

 

before ppl were using plutorunes /now ppl are using plutorunes

 

before lisents gave higher success rates/not now

 

So what you would like to see happening is to see everything getting harder, so players will have an harder time reaching their goal, have to put more effort into it. That! while yourself and 95% of the active community already have their full sets, wich is now btw, untradable! and played during a time when you could drop 150 HG per hour... giving higher %rates than it gives now!

I just wonder in wich universe it makes any sense.... if you were a new player, how would you feel about that? Having to work harder than others did, for a goal they reached several years ago already.

 

It s not about you... or about me, it s not about telling you are an IM user or whatnot, this is childish to take things this way, it's about what makes sense and what is good for the game future. Your vision of things are only centered on gamers already playing this game, my vision is centered on possible new players and game's future. Make new things harder... ofcourse it s positive.... more challenge more fun, make old features harder than they were is unfair.

 

Hell if it was me I would even make this game have "Character Jump" event where every new account would see the first character created being automatically lvl 200 with a +10 lvl 200 hardened gear set! Of course some oldies would abuse it to create alts, but it would be such a motivation for new players to come and join ROSE community... (you could limit this event to 1 time per mac address to limit abuse).

 

This game needs more active players, and not a bunch of unactive max lvl max geared players feeling like kings of Junon.

[pdfisher]

So you are saying you refined your gears when they could break past 10, but used plutorunes (to go around the failing possibilty) and u used lisents at their old refining rates, so all in all, it was still easier for you back then to make a +15 than it is now to make a + 15... right?

 

before ppl were using plutorunes /now ppl are using plutorunes

 

before lisents gave higher success rates/not now

 

So what you would like to see happening is to see everything getting harder, so players will have an harder time reaching their goal, have to put more effort into it. That! while yourself and 95% of the active community already have their full sets, wich is now btw, untradable! and played during a time when you could drop 150 HG per hour... giving higher %rates than it gives now!

I just wonder in wich universe it makes any sense.... if you were a new player, how would you feel about that? Having to work harder than others did, for a goal they reached several years ago already.

 

It s not about you... or about me, it s not about telling you are an IM user or whatnot, this is childish to take things this way, it's about what makes sense and what is good for the game future. Your vision of things are only centered on gamers already playing this game, my vision is centered on possible new players and game's future. Make new things harder... ofcourse it s positive.... more challenge more fun, make old features harder than they were is unfair.

 

Hell if it was me I would even make this game have "Character Jump" event where every new account would see the first character created being automatically lvl 200 with a +10 lvl 200 hardened gear set! Of course some oldies would abuse it to create alts, but it would be such a motivation for new players to come and join ROSE community... (you could limit this event to 1 time per mac address to limit abuse).

 

This game needs more active players, and not a bunch of unactive max lvl max geared players feeling like kings of Junon.

 

No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying it is easier to refine now, then it was then. And I don't want to see everything get harder, I just want the devs to quit handing everything to everyone, and make people work for some things. Some things just plain should be hard. I want to see more challenge in the game. I think there is a reasonable medium that could be reached. When I first started playing, I got a sense of accomplishment from certain things that I did, that is no longer there for most of those things. Btw, I certainly do not feel like a king of junon, and I think if you ask anyone that knows me in game, they will tell you I am nowhere close to that status. I am not rich, I am not having the best stats, I just play and don't worry about such things. Heck I still have the exact same build I used two years ago, despite all the changes that were made. I have none of the awesome new gems yet, but I manage to play dungeons pretty regularly, and CD every once in awhile.

Edited by pdfisher, 20 October 2014 - 11:52 AM.

[Charas]

@Charas:

 

The whole point is that having 15 armours shouldn't be normal, it should be a rare thing with only the top players can acchive.

Don't forget we are talking about an MMORPG, a game like rose should require dedication, maxed out gears should be pretty much unreachable. A player usually doesn't want to get stuck at a point from where he can't improve anymore.

New end-game gears will balance the refining changes out, that way people who refined their gears before the changes will be "even" to the new-commers and won't have an advantage.

 

I do agree with you mmos need to be challenging, and need to make players feel as they have to play as a team, help each others, farm and grind...

 

New items will balance the refining issue (true apart for the massive amount of lisent stock old players have, compared to what a new player can drop, but not much can and should be done about it), but as the situation stands now.... and when it will be about farming those new pieces of gears you are talking about, then no, things aren't  and won't be balanced.

 

Like I said, what they should have done is to nerf success rate of the new set of gears, but to not touch the lisents% and make it too hard for new comers to catch up.

[Charas]

No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying it is easier to refine now, then it was then. And I don't want to see everything get harder, I just want the devs to quit handing everything to everyone, and make people work for some things. Some things just plain should be hard. I want to see more challenge in the game. I think there is a reasonable medium that could be reached. When I first started playing, I got a sense of accomplishment from certain things that I did, that is no longer there for most of those things. Btw, I certainly do not feel like a king of junon, and I think if you ask anyone that knows me in game, they will tell you I am nowhere close to that status. I am not rich, I am not having the best stats, I just play and don't worry about such things. Heck I still have the exact same build I used two years ago, despite all the changes that were made. I have none of the awesome new gems yet, but I manage to play dungeons pretty regularly, and CD every once in awhile.

 

Dude... really, it is NOT about you, you should stop taking everything personnally because you are not the world's center!

 

It is definitly harder to refine now than what it was before, this is a fact not to be discussed, the %s are there.

I know about sense of achiement... how do you think I felt when I got my +8 legend dragon knuckle pre evo hmm with a sexy G4 on it! I do also have my 15s sets... all kind of stated and gemed stuff everywhere, wich didn t take any effort for me to obtain.... but I'm also honest enougth to recognize that if it was to be done all other again now, it would be way way way more difficult than what it was back then. And that s precisely why i'm complaining about how things are... this isn't for me or idk what, it s for the new players and the future.

 

It s all about marketing strategy, and playerbase management, I didn t study it, but i played enougth games from enougth different companies for enougth to have a good grasp of how things work. For example, if a game is to release a new lvl cap, they are always giving "exp events" to help new comers reaching the level cap before the update, so they ll also be able to enjoy it! When new gears are about to come out, usually game companies have success rate event so old players will burn money and items (sink), and new players have it easier to get on paar with those old players... before competiting together on a new challenge.

 

Making things harder now, while what they should have done is to make it easier for newcomers to catch up is really a pretty bad move. This is my opinion... and the actions of a good numbers of successfull gaming companies are proving me right. 

 

Now i can respect it, you want to see "OLD" things being more challenging only because yourself you do not have anything challenging you... well, it won't help ROSE community much. Now the positive attitude you could have is to want "NEW" things to be challenging, "NEW" content that would bring back the need of grinding and putting effort into things.

[WeatherMan]

Dude... really, it is NOT about you, you should stop taking everything personnally because you are not the world's center!

 

It is definitly harder to refine now than what it was before, this is a fact not to be discussed, the %s are there.

I know about sense of achiement... how do you think I felt when I got my +8 legend dragon knuckle pre evo hmm with a sexy G4 on it! I do also have my 15s sets... all kind of stated and gemed stuff everywhere, wich didn t take any effort for me to obtain.... but I'm also honest enougth to recognize that if it was to be done all other again now, it would be way way way more difficult than what it was back then. And that s precisely why i'm complaining about how things are... this isn't for me or idk what, it s for the new players and the future.

 

It s all about marketing strategy, and playerbase management, I didn t study it, but i played enougth games from enougth different companies for enougth to have a good grasp of how things work. For example, if a game is to release a new lvl cap, they are always giving "exp events" to help new comers reaching the level cap before the update, so they ll also be able to enjoy it! When new gears are about to come out, usually game companies have success rate event so old players will burn money and items (sink), and new players have it easier to get on paar with those old players... before competiting together on a new challenge.

 

Making things harder now, while what they should have done is to make it easier for newcomers to catch up is really a pretty bad move. This is my opinion... and the actions of a good numbers of successfull gaming companies are proving me right. 

 

Now i can respect it, you want to see "OLD" things being more challenging only because yourself you do not have anything challenging you... well, it won't help ROSE community much. Now the positive attitude you could have is to want "NEW" things to be challenging, "NEW" content that would bring back the need of grinding and putting effort into things.

u mad bro ?