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Salamander Flames too over powered


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#1 NamirBarades

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:22 AM

So, I noticed that clerics with flames were starting to heal five, six times more than me on my cleric.  Double, triple even, would be one thing. I dont have flames and my charm is often considered lower then others.   But five or six times--Seven even--and the points to go along with it. 

 

So I tested this just now. I went in with a cleric who had the following gear, just so everyone has an idea for test sake

reinforced bonnet(15) substats 75 dodge 50 mspeed

reinforced orlean robe(10) substat 300 hp

reinforced orlean gloves (no refine) substat 75 dodge 50 mspeed

reinforced orlean shoes(11) substat crital 40

a nature force jewlery set all gemmed with t7s (note, I dont actually have any of those int-> def passives on this cleric)

orlean backsheild (unrefined) attack power 15 acc 40

magic pearl(unrefined) ap 30

dork glasses substat int 10

dust wand(unrefined) b7

 

I buffed, but I did not heal at all.  The only thing I did was make sure I had one or two mana flames down at a time(had I used the new gem I could have done double, but didn't want to waste one just for this test).

 


 

clericsflame_zps1b0d8261.jpg

 

 

 

So on one skill alone, I can, essentially,at least twice what 8 of my other skills and a lot more concentration can do. On top of that, I was rewarded greatly for it.

 

Really, using flames if they are going to count towards heals should be listed in a seperate collumn on the board and not be weighted so much towards your end points.

 

Do fighters get kills and damage from their summons too?  That one is a little harder to test, so now I'm curious. 

 

 

Edit: FYI I have, with my wand on this cleric, 430 charm. I dont know if that effects the power of the salamander flame, if it does thats horrifying too. :/


Edited by NamirBarades, 03 October 2014 - 05:25 AM.

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#2 jerremy

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:25 AM

I think they do get damage from their summons, but offensive summons generally do single target damage while salamanders keep giving AOE heals, heavily outweighing in contribution.


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#3 NamirBarades

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:27 AM

I don't think any classes should get points for a summon, or if they do it should be minimal or scaled down to reflect more of what a player might get from a skill.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but not all classes even have a summon.. 


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#4 iMatt

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:32 AM

Saying it here again: 9% hp / second x4 (through summon gauge gem bug abuse) = 36% hp/second on high hp pool classes like lets say a 25.000 hp champ means 9000 hp / second just for one hero.

They try to nerf this - in my opinion - noobish style of playing cleric by excluding summons from AoE heals, but still with the summon gauge bug it just became too overpowered.

 

Vote for cooldowns on summons like flames! 30 seconds cooldown on a flame might make summon builds more interesting to play!


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#5 iMatt

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:36 AM

I think they do get damage from their summons, but offensive summons generally do single target damage while salamanders keep giving AOE heals, heavily outweighing in contribution.

 

wrong several summons deal massive AoE - but they can be kited, focused or ignored.

But lets be honest who focuses a flame that requires at least 3 seconds to get killed, when it can be resummoned within 1 second?
 


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#6 NamirBarades

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:37 AM

Even a cool down like that, in something like Crystal defenders the players who are defending would have the advantage, the clerics could establish themselves first and have more flames out for when the attackers come.  

 

If it were up to me, I'd say no mana or salamander flames at all in pvp.  But, thats me and I know thats a little extreme. 


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#7 jerremy

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:43 AM

wrong several summons deal massive AoE - but they can be kited, focused or ignored.

But lets be honest who focuses a flame that requires at least 3 seconds to get killed, when it can be resummoned within 1 second?
 

I generally destroy the flames by AoE's. Works pretty well. Hell, I still remember one game where I had 9m damage dealt because of destroying 150ish flames in one CD game.

Also, the only summons with AoE damage are the artisan ones I think? All the other ones can't, or at least I've never seen a beast, hawk, hunter or warrior summon do any AoEs.


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#8 NamirBarades

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:47 AM

Yeah, but some flames are going to be mildly harder to kill.  If I get flames on lvl one on my main cleric, its going to have twice the defense of the ones on the cleric I tested on and that cleric has it maxed. 

 

So maybe the flames shouldn't be based off percentage of stats on your character.  Make them easier to kill, longer cooldown.


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#9 iMatt

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:50 AM

I generally destroy the flames by AoE's. Works pretty well. Hell, I still remember one game where I had 9m damage dealt because of destroying 150ish flames in one CD game.

Also, the only summons with AoE damage are the artisan ones I think? All the other ones can't, or at least I've never seen a beast, hawk, hunter or warrior summon do any AoEs.

 

Artisan ones I think? -> and cleric ones - sadly we never see those big monsters being dropped (vote for a summon controll panel)
And the aoe is nasty by those!
 

Agree with AoE classes - but I can't tell you in how many matches I had brainless mates and were forced to focus flames on my single target class - btw AoE damage too OP pointswise, too....but other story.


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#10 dom33fr

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:50 AM

Yeah, Nerf the game again ... are you freaking serious ? cry more. Not all classes got summons but if those who invested Skill Points in it wouldn't get anything that would be unfair to them. I hate jealous cry babies, really.


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#11 NamirBarades

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:54 AM

Lol, I'm not jealous, but its not helping the game.   But it is fair  to anyone that 8-10 other skills of a cleric can't even compare to one skill that can be spammed?  You're basically saying that 30 skill points used to get a max salamander flame is far better then 50 points into another skill... well this is assuming that you havent gotten the extra passives to help boost your heals. Thats another 10 and possibly another 5 for the unique.  So by your math, 30 > 65? 


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#12 iMatt

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:55 AM

Yeah, Nerf the game again ... are you freaking serious ? cry more. Not all classes got summons but if those who invested Skill Points in it wouldn't get anything that would be unfair to them. I hate jealous cry babies, really.

 

Hey, I am neither a fan of all changes they made in the early past; but do you think 36% hp / second AoE heal with pretty mutch 0 required skill nor targeted heal is balanced at all?

I only see you crying - me making suggestions: 30 seconds cooldown on flames makes those 1. worth focusing 2. getting valued higher since you might use your brain not just your mouse to use those correctly.


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#13 NamirBarades

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:00 AM

The Salamander flames heal too much. This is applicable to pvm and pvp.  In pvm, I could basically farm with flames alone.  If I did it right, I'm sure I could level that way too, without having to cast a single skill.  This isnt about being jealous that other clerics have them, its about how its not good for the game. 

 

I would love to see the flame nerfed to at least a third of what it does now.  Maybe more since the summon gem allows for at least twice the summons of them. 

 

On top of everything else, flames are like other summons reflect their owner's stats.. So a more op cleric gets flames that are just a bit harder to kill. 


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#14 LexLoyalty

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:11 AM

Yeah I strongly believe that a cool-down should be added to any type of a summon ( after all, its a skill like all the others and all skills have cooldowns). Its like if raiders or scouts had no cooldown on stealth.

It will make players to make strategic decisions instead of just spamming and will make the game play more interesting. 

 

It has nothing to do with nerfing , spamming summons is just annoying. Players no longer tend to attack summons and just accept their destiny because they know within couple of seconds a new one will be summoned and they are just wasting time., especially now when you can summon 4 summons.


Edited by LexLoyalty, 03 October 2014 - 06:12 AM.

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#15 Gojio

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:13 AM

Yeah, Nerf the game again ... are you freaking serious ? cry more. Not all classes got summons but if those who invested Skill Points in it wouldn't get anything that would be unfair to them. I hate jealous cry babies, really.

 

I read your comment defending the current state of things, and then I read your signature.

 

Thanks for the laugh.


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#16 dom33fr

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:15 AM

Yeah ... PvP kiddies again dictating what PvM players should suffer from their rants.

 

and iMatt , if u're concerned about other players not havin to involve as many super gaming skill as you have to do, just do like them, make cleric and stop crying


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#17 dom33fr

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:17 AM

I read your comment defending the current state of things, and then I read your signature.

 

Thanks for the laugh.

 

buy a brain and you 'll get it, you got enough $$$ I think. I'm not defending the current state of things dumb$$$ . I'd like the team to stop nerfing and nerfing and nerfing. And this thread is again asking to nerf a class... seriously what's wrong with u here ? no wonder this game isn't developing.


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#18 iMatt

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:17 AM

Yeah ... PvP kiddies again dictating what PvM players should suffer from their rants.

 

and iMatt , if u're concerned about other players not havin to involve as many super gaming skill as you have to do, just do like them, make cleric and stop crying

 

I have one and I am no fan of the current meta, but you probably play Super Mario in Easy Mode, too - so who am I talking to.

No difference between PvM and PvP if you get a free3-40% hp heal / second without using your brain.

Edit: Don't you want PvM also being at least a bit challenging? Or are you a Keong 24/7 afk bot player?


Edited by iMatt, 03 October 2014 - 06:20 AM.

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#19 dom33fr

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:20 AM

ROSE is an easy mmorpg for noobs and always has been, it's not because you're an uber player wanting to be the best of the world that your choice must dictate others gaming. Find another game, there are others out there more challenging than ROSE, the core of ROSE is just as it's visual style, kiddish, and that's what it should be. Because that's what most of the ppl enjoy and have fun with.


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#20 iMatt

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:24 AM

ROSE is an easy mmorpg for noobs and always has been, it's not because you're an uber player wanting to be the best of the world that your choice must dictate others gaming. Find another game, there are others out there more challenging than ROSE, the core of ROSE is just as it's visual style, kiddish, and that's what it should be. Because that's what most of the ppl enjoy and have fun with.

 

There aren't trust me.

I am sorry if I try to influence your afk bot play, but I heard browsergames are better for people like you:3
 


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#21 NamirBarades

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:24 AM

buy a brain and you 'll get it, you got enough $$$ I think. I'm not defending the current state of things dumb$$$ . I'd like the team to stop nerfing and nerfing and nerfing. And this thread is again asking to nerf a class... seriously what's wrong with u here ? no wonder this game isn't developing.

 

Hi, I pvm too.  Flames are boring--they make clerics not have to do anything but spam flames and buffs.  I dont mind bonfires.  Those are nice. 

 

And FYI, it wasn't always this easy.  Beta required a cleric to be active in a party--even if they had enabled dual screen, it wasn't as simple as spaming bonfire.  You had to farm with an entire party and the cleric was necessary for keeping the party alive.   I used to love pvm a whole lot more then because it actually was a challenge, not a bot-fest. 


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#22 DestinyDeoxys

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:26 AM

They should not contribute to healing inflicted at all, because it promotes no effort play, farming and afk. The flames are not easy to kill, if they are under constant party healing, I'm not sure if the flames heal the crystal as well, sometimes crystal seems stuck at max HP, not sure if it gets HP from the party healing or the flames.


Bonfire

Lv.1 = 1% HP/MP per 3 sec
Lv.2 = 1% HP/MP per 3 sec
Lv.3 = 2% HP/MP per 3 sec
Lv.4 = 2% HP/MP per 3 sec
Lv.5 = 3% HP/MP per 3 sec


Salamander flame

Lv.1 = 5% HP per 3 sec
Lv.2 = 5% HP per 3 sec
Lv.3 = 7% HP per 3 sec
Lv.4 = 7% HP per 3 sec
Lv.5 = 9% HP per 3 sec


Mana flame

Lv.1 = 5% MP per 3 sec
Lv.2 = 5% MP per 3 sec
Lv.3 = 7% MP per 3 sec
Lv.4 = 7% MP per 3 sec
Lv.5 = 9% MP per 3 sec


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#23 bl0b

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:28 AM

I kinda like my flames in PvM. 


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#24 iMatt

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:30 AM

Oh it is 3seconds? my bad: 6 bonfires (through gems/passives) = 54% heal every 3 seconds, my bad.

I don't say that has to change, bl0b just not being as easy as it is.


Edited by iMatt, 03 October 2014 - 06:31 AM.

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#25 dom33fr

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:34 AM

I kinda like my flames in PvM. 

 

well, with people like them, (the brains showing ideas on how to nerf the game even more), you won't like them (and other game features progressively destroyed) anymore.

 

Such players are killing the game. My opinion. Looking forward to see this close. Let's wait.


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