195 replies to this topic

[Squipy]

we shouldnt place too much significance on that one example of CD. in a more balanced war, there is no way you can stand there and only use salamanders, since they'd be knocked down. but that cd was a special case of having 4 champs on a team vs virtually no champs. also damage received isn't mentioned there but i guarantee, it would not have been high for marwina since our attackers couldn't get to her 

[NamirBarades]

I want to point out that the cds I have done on Nia so far were almost effortless im keeping at least one flame out. Its often not as easy asit sounds to keep targetting them if youre on the opposing team as the tunneled map leaves everyone standing on top of each other. This was while using all my other heals. There is no reason to kill them when I keep summoning them, eventually aoes get them and I have summoned a second by then. I also want to note that the stats on the summo reflect the stats on the cleric. So, what buffies has posted as stats of the flame are not always the stats. Ie, some flames can probably beone shotted, others may take two-three shots, etc..

Pvm wise.. my friend is using my cleric by just throwing down a flame and soloing kings. Issues there too and not just in pvp.

[iMatt]

I want to point out that the cds I have done on Nia so far were almost effortless im keeping at least one flame out. Its often not as easy asit sounds to keep targetting them if youre on the opposing team as the tunneled map leaves everyone standing on top of each other. This was while using all my other heals. There is no reason to kill them when I keep summoning them, eventually aoes get them and I have summoned a second by then. I also want to note that the stats on the summo reflect the stats on the cleric. So, what buffies has posted as stats of the flame are not always the stats. Ie, some flames can probably beone shotted, others may take two-three shots, etc..

Pvm wise.. my friend is using my cleric by just throwing down a flame and soloing kings. Issues there too and not just in pvp.

 

another kyouromance? i like!

[NamirBarades]

we shouldnt place too much significance on that one example of CD. in a more balanced war, there is no way you can stand there and only use salamanders, since they'd be knocked down. but that cd was a special case of having 4 champs on a team vs virtually no champs. also damage received isn't mentioned there but i guarantee, it would not have been high for marwina since our attackers couldn't get to her

This is not a special case, but because you are somehow not seeing that, I will be sure to post you screen shot after screen shot of the same thing. I now have flames to prove the point on Nia, and its a lot easier doing it on her then on Marwina. How about this. I challenge all the other clerics with flames to *honestly* test it. Try some wars with and then some wars after.

I feel like some are just covetting the points they get from it.

[Feuer]

You get points from wars now? Interesting ==' 

[Bendersmom]

btw Feuer, contrary to popular belief on this forum, there is a way to argue your point without being disrespectful to people in the process/ just saying.

 

Nia has been talking about CD wars throughout most of her posts.  You know what she meant.

 

And I understand what you are saying Nia, maybe salamander flames need to heal for less and/or the range of healing needs to be cut back.  From what you have demonstrated it is too OP for PVP and PVM.  But I still have not seen it as much of a problem until the summons gem was added and now clerics can have 4 of them, and battle clerics can have 6 swords and other classes can have 4 summons without having to invest extra skill points.  That is a real problem in itself.  But maybe the salamander flames need to be nerfed a bit, and the summons gem needs to be changed.  

[Squipy]

who o.O? i said it was a special case that you were able to stand there and only use salamanders the whole cd, not that it was a special case and so that means salamanders aren't powerful or don't heal alot.

[Feuer]

 

Nia has been talking about CD wars throughout most of her posts.  You know what she meant.

 

Just because "I" know what she meant doesn't mean others will. Making a clear separation between Wars, and CD [which are two separate things] will help keep the conversation smooth, fluid and able for any person to follow. That was my point, and if I wanted to be rude, I simply would have said "you don't get points from wars stupid" but I didn't say that, did I? 

Edited by Feuer, 06 October 2014 - 06:49 AM.

[Kermaperuna]

I just love your new signature though, keep up the respect.

[ChampPower]

Just because "I" know what she meant doesn't mean others will. Making a clear separation between Wars, and CD [which are two separate things] will help keep the conversation smooth, fluid and able for any person to follow. That was my point, and if I wanted to be rude, I simply would have said "you don't get points from wars stupid" but I didn't say that, did I?

I think you should stop assuming about what other people know or not know. A lot of people in this forum have very high levels of intelligent and degree. You do not need to explain anything to other people unless they directly ask for your explanation(s), which I do not see any people doing so. If you want to argue, you should argue by using your point of view, with the respectful manner. If you cannot do so, I suggest you not saying anything at all because you were/are distracting other people with your disrespectful responses.

The discussion: Anyway, as I have promised, I will stay out of the arguments as long as I can. Most of the arguments I have read in this thread are interesting. However, I have to remind people a few points that was mentioned in this thread:

1. The Salamander flames have weak defense and HP. 1 or 2 AoE skills are more than enough to destroy all the flames.

2. The Salamander flames cost lot of mana to summon. The Cleric will run into the mana shortage problem if he or she is spamming Salamander skill.

3. The total healing amount will not be 36% per every 3 seconds because the Salamender flames will be destroyed as soon as they are created by the AoE classes, and there are more than one AoE class in war.

4. Many people have problem with the Salamender flames because most people use raider in war. If we can diverse some people from playing raider and single-targeted classes, the problem with Salamander flames will be solved by itself.

Edited by ChampPower, 06 October 2014 - 10:20 AM.

[Feuer]

Champ you missed the point entirely. I don't doubt other people's ability to cognitively understand what they're reading. But when you get into the area of implied meanings, that's where conversations and discussions get a lot funky and can go horribly wrong. Simply demonstrating a little bit more discernment and care in how you phrase your points can get you miles of understanding with very simple sentences. In short, I only pointed out that it is possible for some to get confused, and tried to do so without being rude or judgmental. I'm fully capable of being blunt and rude, but I'm giving everyone the saving grace of forgo'ing it for now so we can get the facts sorted. 

[jerremy]

Champ you missed the point entirely. I don't doubt other people's ability to cognitively understand what they're reading. But when you get into the area of implied meanings, that's where conversations and discussions get a lot funky and can go horribly wrong. Simply demonstrating a little bit more discernment and care in how you phrase your points can get you miles of understanding with very simple sentences. In short, I only pointed out that it is possible for some to get confused, and tried to do so without being rude or judgmental. I'm fully capable of being blunt and rude, but I'm giving everyone the saving grace of forgo'ing it for now so we can get the facts sorted. 

Rather than sorting things out, your intervention often makes things unnecessarily confusing.

Anyway I'm refraining from this discussion as I haven't played a lot lately and can't quite tell how the situation is.

[NamirBarades]

I think you should stop assuming about what other people know or not know. A lot of people in this forum have very high levels of intelligent and degree. You do not need to explain anything to other people unless they directly ask for your explanation(s), which I do not see any people doing so. If you want to argue, you should argue by using your point of view, with the respectful manner. If you can do so, I suggest you not saying anything at all because you were/are distracting other people with your disrespectful responses.

The discussion: Anyway, as I have promised, I will stay out of the arguments as long as I can. Most of the arguments I have read in this thread are interesting. However, I have to remind people a few points that was mentioned in this thread:

1. The Salamander flames have weak defense and HP. 1 or 2 AoE skills are more than enough to destroy all the flames.

2. The Salamander flames cost lot of mana to summon. The Cleric will run into the mana shortage problem if he or she is spamming Salamander skill.

3. The total healing amount will not be 36% per every 3 seconds because the Salamender flames will be destroyed as soon as they are created by the AoE classes, and there are more than one AoE class in war.

4. Most of the problem people have with the Salamender flames because most people use raider in war. If we can diverse some people from playing raider and single-targeted classes, the problem with Salamander flames will be solved by itself.

1. Defense of flames varies from cleric to cleric. Again, I have been able to consistantly keep at least one flame active at a time. Yes, this is not that full percentage that Matt spoke about, but it is still a lot.

2. The mana cost is nothing. The amount it heals far outweighs the cost. In those times that I am low I adjusted a bit and put a salamander flame and a bonfire. Other clerics can throw a mana flame down(another thing I think is op, but I wont touch that because all of rose would be yelling at me on forums). With just that, or sitting down between 'waves' of attacks.. my mana is fine again. Actually, the flames helped me save mana more then I might otherwise. Normally, I run low pretty quick. The highest party heal costs so much in mana, but with the flames I got away with casting that much less.

That would be a good solution--up the mana cost of the salamander/mana flames to a lot more--like 3k mana for a salamander flame. Maybe more.

3. I dont play raider and this probably bothers me a lot more than any raider.

who o.O? i said it was a special case that you were able to stand there and only use salamanders the whole cd, not that it was a special case and so that means salamanders aren't powerful or don't heal alot.

I dont think it was that special of a case. I have done it numerous times on Nia without much problem. Target heal, party, salamander flame, target, target, party, salamander... no cooldown so its quick to do. The animation is a little longer, but because it heals so much that doesnt matter. I found it a lot easier to do. Yes, harder to do in a war on marwina where the otherside has the extra cleric, but the war i posted the screen shot of.. marwina died a lot.

[ChampPower]

That would be a good solution--up the mana cost of the salamander/mana flames to a lot more--like 3k mana for a salamander flame. Maybe more.

 

Sorry, I just want to post a quick reply to your suggestion. My cleric only has 4-5K of mana before buffing. If you increase the cost of Salamander and Mana flames to 3K, then that skill will become pointless and useless because I cannot do anything else after I create the one flame, which will be destroyed in second(s).

[NamirBarades]

Sorry, I just want to post a quick reply to your suggestion. My cleric only has 4-5K of mana before buffing. If you increase the cost of Salamander and Mana flames to 3K, then that skill will become pointless and useless because I cannot do anything else after I create the one flame, which will be destroyed in second(s).

3k before reductions. Kind of similar to the highest party heal, but a little more since it can potentially do more than that heal. Most support clerics use wands with magic reduction costs these days and there is even an optional passive.

[IAfjiBa]

That would be a good solution--up the mana cost of the salamander/mana flames to a lot more--like 3k mana for a salamander flame. Maybe more.

 

I am ok with this

[Zurn]

Why not a percentage of your total mp?

[Pigggybank]

Why not a percentage of your total mp?

 

 

Maybe like -20% of your total mp? I don't mind it 

 

It would discourage clerics to keep spamming  Salamanders

[angeltje]

Why not a percentage of your total mp?

 

that would a change that i can agree and accept, way better then 3k cost, just 20-25% of your total mp looks fine to me.
 

[Feuer]

Total, or Current. Functionally a huge difference.

 

Total = smarter to use earlier on, as the cost is high.

Current = best saved for last when MP is low and you cannot afford high MP heals. 

 

Has anyone tested 4 Sala's with a HP recieved 15% gem to see how much bonus healing it gives? I'm curious. 

[angeltje]

Total, or Current. Functionally a huge difference.

Total = smarter to use earlier on, as the cost is high.
Current = best saved for last when MP is low and you cannot afford high MP heals.

Has anyone tested 4 Sala's with a HP recieved 15% gem to see how much bonus healing it gives? I'm curious.

Total at this moment, so current

[Feuer]

No i mean, the sala's heal 9% of your HP. So thats 36% total, now add an additional 15% of the 36%. 41.4% every 3 seconds. [only while all 4 are up + healing]
So on my knight with a current HP pool of 30k [193] that's, 12,420 hp / 3 sec or 4,140/sec. Not bad. seen people selling those gems for like 80m lmao

[joelhouse09]

1fs cleric spam mana flames. 9battle cleric spam salamander. .

[Filipito98]

yeah do the 20% mp for flames , and mana more since they give mana like 20% + x mana give o.O (about mana is just a example or made both 20%) soo clerics might just focus in heals than in flames c:

 

edit: 

joelhouse09, on 07 Oct 2014 - 2:59 PM, said:

1fs cleric spam mana flames. 9battle cleric spam salamander. .

wtf? 10 clerics in a CD? dude thats impossible, only if is u creating the team, also that will be ultra useless cause clerics will not do anything than just spaming flames, aoe can kill all the flames in 5 seconds, they can keep spaming flames in the wole CD but in total 0 kills, even sleeps they get 0, they might can get more points than others but kills is 0

Edited by Filipito98, 07 October 2014 - 05:04 AM.

[IAfjiBa]

Why not a percentage of your total mp?

 

I like this more