195 replies to this topic

[joelhouse09]

yeah do the 20% mp for flames , and mana more since they give mana like 20% + x mana give o.O (about mana is just a example or made both 20%) soo clerics might just focus in heals than in flames c:

edit:
joelhouse09, on 07 Oct 2014 - 2:59 PM, said:
wtf? 10 clerics in a CD? dude thats impossible, only if is u creating the team, also that will be ultra useless cause clerics will not do anything than just spaming flames, aoe can kill all the flames in 5 seconds, they can keep spaming flames in the wole CD but in total 0 kills, even sleeps they get 0, they might can get more points than others but kills is 0

its posible 10cleric. How sure u are 9 batTle cleric cant kill?bc are powerful even without summon gem5sec to kill flames. It takes 2.5sec to summon 10 flames.

Edited by joelhouse09, 07 October 2014 - 06:16 AM.

[Feuer]

take into account that flames will not heal until they've been out for 3 seconds. so you have 3 seconds to just aoe them down, which is easily done. This type of purist theory crafting, or extremes, is why no one is going to take things seriously. You have to put them into a logical example. 
Is 1 fs + 9 BC possible, yes

Is it likely to ever happen, NO.

Therefore it's not something you should base a hypothesis off, nor should you weigh your entire argument on it. This is because as soon as someone says "yea, but logically how often do you get 1 FS and 9 BC's" your entire argument becomes invalid, and you have to start over, because the honest answer is "almost never". 

 

Also, if salamanders REALLY shifted battle that much, then 1 person a team would become dedicated as a Sala Killer. They would focus solely on CC'ing the cleric, and killing the flames. 

 

[i so wanted to name that role salad killer lawls] 

Edited by Feuer, 07 October 2014 - 06:24 AM.

[ChampPower]

its posible 10cleric. How sure u are 9 batTle cleric cant kill?bc are powerful even without summon gem5sec to kill flames. It takes 2.5sec to summon 10 flames.

Let's see. I would consider killing a team of 10 cleric (9bc and 1fs) as an easy level of difficulty. All I need is 1 cleric, 2-3 AoE (prefer 2 Mages 1 bourgeois, or 2 bourgeois and 1 Mage). The remaining team can be anything, ranging from raiders to spear champs, but anything would do. This is how my battle plan would go.

1. Use long range AoE to destroy all your flames. I expect this to be done in 2 seconds because the Salamender flames have weak defense and low hp

2. Use stun and sleep move, as the team move closer. Both Mage and bourgeois have several AoE stun moves. I am 100 percent certainty that all of your team of cleric will be stunned for at least a few seconds.

3. The rest of my team would move in and finish off your team of clerics when your team is still being stun and sleep. EASY.

Edited by ChampPower, 07 October 2014 - 07:32 AM.

[kaminichuan]

Haven't played much but those numbers do look overpowered. 36% heals per 3 seconds which effortlessly gives over 100 points in a war wow!

If that's true then it is time to jump back on the cleric bandwagon.

Edited by kaminichuan, 07 October 2014 - 10:44 AM.

[jerremy]

Let's see. I would consider killing a team of 10 cleric (9bc and 1fs) as an easy level of difficulty. All I need is 1 cleric, 2-3 AoE (prefer 2 Mages 1 bourgeois, or 2 bourgeois and 1 Mage). The remaining team can be anything, ranging from raiders to spear champs, but anything would do. This is how my battle plan would go.

1. Use long range AoE to destroy all your flames. I expect this to be done in 2 seconds because the Salamender flames have weak defense and low hp

2. Use stun and sleep move, as the team move closer. Both Mage and bourgeois have several AoE stun moves. I am 100 percent certainty that all of your team of cleric will be stunned for at least a few seconds.

3. The rest of my team would move in and finish off your team of clerics when your team is still being stun and sleep. EASY.

Implying that those clerics don't have AoE sleep or anything, and it's not like most of those battle clerics also have a ranged AOE stun. They will surely just stand there and take all your aoes to the face without moving (unfortunately there's people out there that in fact would just stand still and do nothing, but that's a different matter) and doing anything back.

Perfect scenarios may look nice on paper, but rarely will it ever go that way.

Edited by jerremy, 07 October 2014 - 10:42 AM.

[Filipito98]

even if that works they will get 100 points + the heal power is soo strong than u guys might can kill :\

[ChampPower]

Implying that those clerics don't have AoE sleep or anything, and it's not like most of those battle clerics also have a ranged AOE stun. They will surely just stand there and take all your aoes to the face without moving (unfortunately there's people out there that in fact would just stand still and do nothing, but that's a different matter) and doing anything back.

Perfect scenarios may look nice on paper, but rarely will it ever go that way.

 

No, I have included that into the equation as well.

 

1. The bourg's and mage's ranges are much farther than the cleric. They do not need to be near the cleric while the cleric need to be near the bourg and mage for their sleeping AoE to work.

 

2. The clerics cannot AoE sleep if they are stunned.

 

3. the Salamender flame, itself, has the weakness. When the cleric summons the flames, the cleric has to stay close to the flame to keep the flame from disappearing. Because of that, if you use the flame as the Aoe target, your AoE will also hit the cleric. You do not even need to click on the cleric.

[Filipito98]

that might work, nice plan, but even dont forget the pots and the food

[Leeny]

As much as I do honestly feel they shouldn't be as strong(salamander flames) mostly everyone has very valid arguments dealing with both sides. I have read very good points to leave it as is, and good points to nerf it down. Either way I will be satisfied with whichever if anything is done with salamander/bonfire. True, they can be killed quite fast, True they heal crazy amounts of HP being only 1 skill compared to the other heals(which are instant may i add). That's all, I have taken the neutral stance on this. If its nerfed that's good, if it stays that's good. lol...

[Pigggybank]

Total, or Current. Functionally a huge difference.

 

Total = smarter to use earlier on, as the cost is high.

Current = best saved for last when MP is low and you cannot afford high MP heals. 

 

Has anyone tested 4 Sala's with a HP recieved 15% gem to see how much bonus healing it gives? I'm curious. 

 

 

Feuer I tried it with 15%  hp received it wasn't a big significance because it adds .06% heal to your salamander however the biggest significant healing is when you increase your max hp 

[Pigggybank]

No i mean, the sala's heal 9% of your HP. So thats 36% total, now add an additional 15% of the 36%. 41.4% every 3 seconds. [only while all 4 are up + healing]
So on my knight with a current HP pool of 30k [193] that's, 12,420 hp / 3 sec or 4,140/sec. Not bad. seen people selling those gems for like 80m lmao

 

 

feuer I believe it's 15% of the 9% that is added ( 9%/15%)

[Squipy]

at this point I actually hope they do get nerfed even though it doesn't matter either way. I dont even have my normal heals maxed out, and if I don't need to get salamnder I could use the extra sp to max them plus get other skills, which could probably make up for the loss anyway. 20% of mp still doesnt sound like much... but 3k is kinda ridiculous, my mp is only around 4k. If anything, id say one third of the mp should be lost. I mean mana shield only lasts a few seconds when ur hit, and that costs you half of your mp to use.

which is probably why no fs clerics have mana shield lmao. so if it's your intention to nerf the flames so that no one will want to get them anymore, then make the mp cost high. if not, just have it be at a reasonable amount.

Edited by Squipy, 07 October 2014 - 02:59 PM.

[Leeny]

at this point I actually hope they do get nerfed even though it doesn't matter either way. I dont even have my normal heals maxed out, and if I don't need to get salamnder I could use the extra sp to max them plus get other skills, which could probably make up for the loss anyway. 20% of mp still doesnt sound like much... but 3k is kinda ridiculous, my mp is only around 4k. If anything, id say one third of the mp should be lost. I mean mana shield only lasts a few seconds when ur hit, and that costs you half of your mp to use.

which is probably why no fs clerics have mana shield lmao. so if it's your intention to nerf the flames so that no one will want to get them anymore, then make the mp cost high. if not, just have it be at a reasonable amount.

 

Agreed 100%

[ChampPower]

at this point I actually hope they do get nerfed even though it doesn't matter either way. I dont even have my normal heals maxed out, and if I don't need to get salamnder I could use the extra sp to max them plus get other skills, which could probably make up for the loss anyway. 20% of mp still doesnt sound like much... but 3k is kinda ridiculous, my mp is only around 4k. If anything, id say one third of the mp should be lost. I mean mana shield only lasts a few seconds when ur hit, and that costs you half of your mp to use.

which is probably why no fs clerics have mana shield lmao. so if it's your intention to nerf the flames so that no one will want to get them anymore, then make the mp cost high. if not, just have it be at a reasonable amount.

If it does not matter, then why does the Salamander flame need to be nerfed? We should not fix what is not broke. Leave it as it is.

[Squipy]

lemme rephrase, it doesn't matter to me* 

[NamirBarades]

at this point I actually hope they do get nerfed even though it doesn't matter either way. I dont even have my normal heals maxed out, and if I don't need to get salamnder I could use the extra sp to max them plus get other skills, which could probably make up for the loss anyway. 20% of mp still doesnt sound like much... but 3k is kinda ridiculous, my mp is only around 4k. If anything, id say one third of the mp should be lost. I mean mana shield only lasts a few seconds when ur hit, and that costs you half of your mp to use.

which is probably why no fs clerics have mana shield lmao. so if it's your intention to nerf the flames so that no one will want to get them anymore, then make the mp cost high. if not, just have it be at a reasonable amount.

 

3k really isnt that ridiculous. I said before mp reductions.  And I was just shooting out ideas--A percentage was a good idea, and I wouldn't mind 33% or something decent like that.  With the set cost, I was thinking about how it might effect skill builds more.   A lot of clerics have that passive and then reduction on the wand--it would end up being closer to the highest party heal, a little more.  

 

And the increased mana was an alternative to nerfing them-- we're giving different ideas here, trying to meet in the middle. 

 

By doing something like that, it forces a cleric to rethink their skill build.  If it takes a lot of mana, they have to work on using mana flames in addition to the salamander flames. You can't just spam one or the other.    It also makes someone think whether or not they will get all the mp recovery passives--which means sacrificing other skills as well if you go with all of them.  Then there's other skills like the mana pool--it also makes people consider what their stats are at(in theory anyways.. some just do whatever anyways).  And like you said, you dont even have your heals maxed out--so you know all about having to carefully select where your skills go.  I want cleric to be more challenging again, not I stand here and spam eight heals and a salamander flame. 

 

Well, I will say they should still be nerfed a bit healing wise.  I was just in a war with you earlier where I took a beating--Normally in a war like that, I might get 200-300m in heals... I got 1 easily.  Yeah, that was half of what you got, but you barely got touched by opposition and had a second cleric.  I don't think it should be this easy for clerics to get heals. 

[Leeny]

Maybe the DEVS could input on this matter??

[Gojio]

Once berserk gets fixed the flames (even if they dont change) will be even more effective. If champs on the "old" berserk could outdamage a healer's heals+flames, now it's going to be harder, making it eveb easier for the clerics.

 

But regardless of the champs, the flames should be tweaked.

[iMatt]

Maybe the DEVS could input on this matter??

 

Cleric

• Bendersmom
• borgahutt
• Buffiies
• DestinyDeoxys
• GilGrissom
• onizuk4
• rhaiin23
• Soda

those should deal with this thread, summarise it and forward it to the devs. =)

Edited by iMatt, 09 October 2014 - 01:16 PM.

[Bendersmom]

Did that already Matt, at least had a discussion about it.  

[iMatt]

Did that already Matt, at least had a discussion about it.  

 

music in my ears - wasn t mean as offence tho
 

[Soda]

Actually I wasn't planning to even post on this thread cause I don't want to start an argument with anyone. But since I'm cleric rep then might as well ._. . For me, like what others have already stated. The flames may give huge amount of hp obviously but if you have a team that's well organized and maybe assign people to deal with those flames when it is summoned, then I don't think you will have any problem. If you even have the time to pay attention to what the cleric is doing rather than just hitting her (assuming most clerics are female lul)  to death, then those summons will be, somewhat useless or just bothersome for the cleric to keep summoning. Those flames doesn't even heal upon cast, unlike regular healing skills. So you obviously have the time to destroy it right? But then again that's my opinion. Okie sinze i olready postid here am out yo. ill just have fun reading the endless argument.

[NamirBarades]

Actually I wasn't planning to even post on this thread cause I don't want to start an argument with anyone. But since I'm cleric rep then might as well ._. . For me, like what others have already stated. The flames may give huge amount of hp obviously but if you have a team that's well organized and maybe assign people to deal with those flames when it is summoned, then I don't think you will have any problem. If you even have the time to pay attention to what the cleric is doing rather than just hitting her (assuming most clerics are female lul)  to death, then those summons will be, somewhat useless or just bothersome for the cleric to keep summoning. Those flames doesn't even heal upon cast, unlike regular healing skills. So you obviously have the time to destroy it right? But then again that's my opinion. Okie sinze i olready postid here am out yo. ill just have fun reading the endless argument.

 

Its that easy to resummon them.  I watched a few people target my flames, but eventually give up(or get distracted by killing actual players)  As soon as my flame is gone, I just click the button again.. and got a flame again.  Even worse was earleir when I did it with the summon gem for the lols. Both times I defended, so by the time the attacker got there, I already had four flames.    It wasn't bothersome at all to resummon it--I just put it in my rotation of party heals and would occasionall right click the skill. I didn't even need to watch my summon bar to know it had been killed when I just clicked the skill after party healing. 

 

And very rarely does a group of 14 almost strangers work well together. 

[Soda]

Its that easy to resummon them.  I watched a few people target my flames, but eventually give up(or get distracted by killing actual players)  As soon as my flame is gone, I just click the button again.. and got a flame again.  Even worse was earleir when I did it with the summon gem for the lols. Both times I defended, so by the time the attacker got there, I already had four flames.    It wasn't bothersome at all to resummon it--I just put it in my rotation of party heals and would occasionall right click the skill. I didn't even need to watch my summon bar to know it had been killed when I just clicked the skill after party healing. 

 

And very rarely does a group of 14 almost strangers work well together. 

 

Wasn't expecting you to reply. I thought you were ignoring me ._. . Anyways. Ok, so maybe it doesn't really take much effort to resummon it. But what I meant was, it doesn't make much of an immediate impact unlike healing skills and that if someone in the group doesn't pay attention to what the cleric is doing, then it's their fault.  It's what I've always noticed in wars. Long range classes doesn't even make the effort of killing it (summons).

 

I also agree. Usually in a group of 10-15. Its the old players that, by instinct, knows how to play well together. You can always spot the newbs since they're completely lost most of the time. huehuehue

[NamirBarades]

Wasn't expecting you to reply. I thought you were ignoring me ._. . Anyways. Ok, so maybe it doesn't really take much effort to resummon it. But what I meant was, it doesn't make much of an immediate impact unlike healing skills and that if someone in the group doesn't pay attention to what the cleric is doing, then it's their fault. It's what I've always noticed in wars. Long range classes doesn't even make the effort of killing it (summons).

I also agree. Usually in a group of 10-15. Its the old players that, by instinct, knows how to play well together. You can always spot the newbs since they're completely lost most of the time. huehuehue

o.o Why would I ingnore you nick. Sometimes I see you in cd.. well thought it was you.. but you didnt respond. Anywho.. I have seen players sit and try to kill summons, but it just gets pointless. I can summon a second one before the first gets killed. Everyone says they die in a few shots, but if you do your gear right you can buff them up a bit. I had mine at around 7k hp with around 5k def. It took five-eight shots per which is plenty of time to summon a second one. Not to mention, if everyone is huddled together in cd, targetting them becomes a full time task.