174 replies to this topic

[Musu]

We looked at the comparative economies and applied a rule that would reduce the total possible amount of zeny to be much less than what already exists on NA.  Right now if every single character came over and was played it would multiply the NA economy by about 1.5.  Keep in mind that we'd be more than doubling the amount of characters on the server but the economy wouldn't be doubling.  Also with them unable to vend, trade or auction their items their ability to get economically involved is also stunted.

There very well may be some players who had astronomical wealth, that wealth is significantly truncated, even if they fill themselves up to the gills with items they can sell to NPC for good zeny it is still going to be a significant lowering.  The point of the restrictions is not to make the characters destitute, the point was to make sure they aren't coming over and making an imbalance.  When we get the final data this week from AsiaSoft we will run the simulation again to be sure the balance of the zeny was not thrown out of whack with players preparing. 

 

The thing with that number Heim is how many people in that statstic are real people and not alt accounts? They used to have a 1mil per character limit, so A LOT of players made mule accounts.

 

I think you guys should either limit the amount per account, OOOOOOR make a level requirment ( 40+ seems fair ).
 

[aoi911]

We looked at the comparative economies and applied a rule that would reduce the total possible amount of zeny to be much less than what already exists on NA.  Right now if every single character came over and was played it would multiply the NA economy by about 1.5.  Keep in mind that we'd be more than doubling the amount of characters on the server but the economy wouldn't be doubling.  Also with them unable to vend, trade or auction their items their ability to get economically involved is also stunted.

There very well may be some players who had astronomical wealth, that wealth is significantly truncated, even if they fill themselves up to the gills with items they can sell to NPC for good zeny it is still going to be a significant lowering.  The point of the restrictions is not to make the characters destitute, the point was to make sure they aren't coming over and making an imbalance.  When we get the final data this week from AsiaSoft we will run the simulation again to be sure the balance of the zeny was not thrown out of whack with players preparing. 

But they still can buy thing from AH then resell it at high price @@. Just lower to 100k per account, people can accept it somehow <.< . I know some people got +10 account , and guess, they can manipulate the zeny in these alts

[ZeroTigress]

We looked at the comparative economies and applied a rule that would reduce the total possible amount of zeny to be much less than what already exists on NA.  Right now if every single character came over and was played it would multiply the NA economy by about 1.5.  Keep in mind that we'd be more than doubling the amount of characters on the server but the economy wouldn't be doubling.  Also with them unable to vend, trade or auction their items their ability to get economically involved is also stunted.

There very well may be some players who had astronomical wealth, that wealth is significantly truncated, even if they fill themselves up to the gills with items they can sell to NPC for good zeny it is still going to be a significant lowering.  The point of the restrictions is not to make the characters destitute, the point was to make sure they aren't coming over and making an imbalance.  When we get the final data this week from AsiaSoft we will run the simulation again to be sure the balance of the zeny was not thrown out of whack with players preparing.

1 million zeny per seaRO2 account is a bit TOO generous, don't you think? Players on iRO2 don't have anything close to that even with the gold sellers messing up the auction house back then. I don't mind the account-bound items, but the extraordinarily huge amount of zeny per character being allowed is just ridiculous. You basically gave them free reign to completely change the iRO2 economy with that amount of money.

[Tonitrua]

Players on iRO2 don't have anything close to that

Yes, the richest players here on Odin have many millions of zeny. The average player might not, but then I'm sure the average player on SEA also doesn't have nearly as much as the richest players on SEA do.

[magpi]

Hey now... a good post on how easily certain bound items can be manipulated was deleted >.> 

 

Sorry but he did make some very good points, if what was said isn't allowed it should have been edited or corrected not deleted because whoever did not like what they said. NOT liking this abuse of power.

 

This is a touchy situation. You all asked for our feedback before, and that post pertained to the most important issue that was ignored. 

[ZeroTigress]

Yes, the richest players here on Odin have many millions of zeny. The average player might not, but then I'm sure the average player on SEA also doesn't have nearly as much as the richest players on SEA do.

Geez, so iRO2 managed to get 10 years of iRO1 inflation in the span of 2 years. Must be trying to go for a new record with seaRO2 players. Way to turn off any new players who are unfortunate enough to start playing after the transfer.
 

Hey now... a good post on how easily certain bound items can be manipulated was deleted >.> 
 
Sorry but he did make some very good points, if what was said isn't allowed it should have been edited or corrected not deleted because whoever did not like what they said. NOT liking this abuse of power.
 
This is a touchy situation. You all asked for our feedback before, and that post pertained to the most important issue that was ignored.

Yeah, don't blame us for getting up in arms when the whole situation is getting mishandled.

[VModBacon]

Geez, so iRO2 managed to get 10 years of iRO1 inflation in the span of 2 years. Must be trying to go for a new record with seaRO2 players. Way to turn off any new players who are unfortunate enough to start playing after the transfer.
 

Yeah, don't blame us for getting up in arms when the whole situation is getting mishandled.

 

Most of the inflation happened during the AoV update and was more of a revaluation, in the past 5 or 6 months there has been around a 10% inflation in the zeny rate. 

Edited by VModBacon, 07 October 2014 - 10:17 AM.

[ZeroTigress]

Most of the inflation happened during the AoV update and was more of a revaluation, in the past 5 or 6 months there has been around a 10% inflation in the zeny rate.

So what, catering to the richest players is more important than figuring out how to make the economy easier to approach by players with much less money and potential new players who are going to BALK at the even more inflated economy? Why hasn't the inflation of zney been addressed when it was increasing? Where is all the money coming from?

[Telovi]

Leave it to the people holding real and up to date datas to do their jobs. Only they know how much zeny the prodigal children really own. 

 

 

 

But they still can buy thing from AH then resell it at high price @@. Just lower to 100k per account, people can accept it somehow <.< . I know some people got +10 account , and guess, they can manipulate the zeny in these alts

 

Damn right. That's why scalping to earn zeny won't work there because everyone and their wives are scalper themselves. I can only take your opinion unbiasedly since you really do stay updated in your starting server. But you're trying a little too hard to sit on this community good side with this.

[JeroenC]

I just want that 50% seed runes removed and overpower upgrade of cards. About the zeny issue, all i can do for now is remove first my stuff in auction until prices are fixed during merge..

[Heimdallr]

I understand the desire to put stricter anti-competition rules in.  we will be looking at the seed rune lvl50 situation and removing as appropriate (no there will not be stacks coming over).
Zeny we based our info on a pull done about 2 weeks ago, yes some shuffling around of monies is expected, we will redo the pull when we get the final data and make sure it conforms to our desired 50% or less the value of NA possible.  Do keep in mind that a fraction of the total characters will even login on the NA servers so the impact will be lower than even our max case scenario. 

We did put a cap on the zeny per account it is 1,000,000z there are quite a number in NA that have more than that, but more importantly the average character between SEA and NA with this restriction will be the same.  We are dealing with averages, whereas players will have to go off of specific people they find alarming.  If we assume everyone is the worst case scenario then of course more restrictions would be called for.  But we have the ability to look at the bigger picture where you guys don't so naturally we are seeing different data than you are.

We are not making our decisions in a vacuum, we are listening to you, we are taking into account situations you are bringing to our attention.  But what we will not do is make it so the SEA players cannot come in and play, if we were to take the most restrictive method that have been suggested we would not allow them anything but a naked lvl 50 char (if that).  Well from experience as both a player and publisher we know that if the level of restriction is too high there is no reason to play, which means we don't get new players, we don't get new competitors and ultimately it is more boring.

 

The post that I believe some of you are complaining that was hidden, was hidden not because it talked about how players could refine items for other people to get money, but because it was making broad unsupported bigoted remarks about players from the SEA territory.   How much money they make while here doesn't matter as that money will already exist in the economy, it isn't creating new (which would be a bigger problem), after a short time of refining with leftovers from SEA they will be done.

[Nereida]

Why hasn't the inflation of zney been addressed when it was increasing? Where is all the money coming from?

Farming I assume. I can make about 2k per hour with my low level of expertise, so I'm guessing other people can do more than that.
Which is indeed very low compared to some prices in the AH, but still more understandable than what happened preAoV (just where the hell did gold seller get that much money?).

[Tkwan]

So that gravity stock option is below $1? Well. This is part of the reason why. Bad game decisions.

 

 

The only reason I care enough to bother posting in the RO2 forums is because this decision effects gravity as a whole, and the breaking of the RO2 economy WILL lead to its demise, and ultimately, affect RO1.

 

 

 

Now with that said, Heim, even with my limited knowledge of RO2 from when I used to play it back in the "beta" and during the noel update, and from what I've heard from individuals that still (for whatever reason) actually play this game; you guys are making a very serious mistake.

 

Even if you claim that the amount of zeny being allowed to be transferred over will only slightly increase the total zeny in the server, you're putting the entire market at a complete imbalance where each individual that transfers will be allowed to bring over 1 MILLION zeny PER ACCOUNT. Let's just assume that the rich people have more than one account, these few individuals who actually have That much money will have complete economic control over the entire iRO2 market. Your iRO2 players who have stuck with this game for so long and invested so much time and money into the game will be completely unable to compete. You're effectively throwing all of these loyal RO2 fans under the bus in favor of a business decision to attempt to keep as many of the SEA players as possible from quitting to gain additional revenue.

 

I can't say how much you Should allow as a max zeny amount, but even with my knowledge of the RO2 market in its current form, you are going to completely break the market and give full market control to the few.

 

 

That's just the zeny side of things, I can't speak to the equipment side since I'm not familiar with current RO2 equipments, however you guys did also mention that some item's won't be allowed or will be allowed in limited amounts, so hopefully you listen to the community on what should and should not be allowed through for game balance.

 

 

Edit to reflect on heims post - If any individual here holds over a million zeny, then you should probably investigate them for potential cheating. I've been told through the grapevine that there's been plenty of exploits available in RO2.

On the other hand, if its not cheating, then its possible the character is a guilds zeny holder, and the zeny doesn't belong to a single individual.

 

I find it difficult to believe that a single individual could obtain that amount of zeny legitimately here, even with smart market playing.

Edited by Tkwan, 07 October 2014 - 12:23 PM.

[Heimdallr]

Just a brief follow-up:  Our 100,000 restriction was based on information that was based on September 12 data.  When the merger was announced account creation was also turned off, to avoid last minute account creations to bring over the bank.

Now when we ran the various comparisons between NA and TW based on that data 100,000 worked well to give a general parity of their average active player to our active players.  Yes there are some that had over 10,000,000 but NA also has a couple of players like that too.  Now when we get the final data we will do the comparison again and suitable zeny restrictions will happen so their average mixes in with our average. 

 

Please remember we are still making suitable decisions based on the data as it comes, we can't give a final restriction list until we get the final data to see how all the players settle out their affairs on SEA, and that the restrictions are not "Final", it has been restated every time I post, and I mean it.  I would rather have been quiet about the restrictions so less "working around the system" would have been possible, but an information vacuum also causes its own concerns in both communities.

[Vau]

I understand the desire to put stricter anti-competition rules in.  we will be looking at the seed rune lvl50 situation and removing as appropriate (no there will not be stacks coming over).

 

Personally, i don't consider removing BS 50% off SEA players that earned them from a PvP tournament would be a good idea, that will piss off most of SEA players. We got an unbalance on NA where 1 guild got most of the top Seed runes, if you don't let SEA players come with their Seeds, then SEA players won't balance these unbalance of Seed runes distributed around the server and guilds on NA.

 

I know it's hard to make a decision like that but i stated plenty of times to remove Seeds off the game, not just Colosseum, most of the imbalance of classes came from it. If Gravity don't remove Seed runes, any change made to each class (Ex: Assassins) will be in vain and will make the community re-roll classes or eventually quit the game.

 

Edit : Typo.
 

Edited by Vau, 07 October 2014 - 01:08 PM.

[JeroenC]

Just destroy the 50% bs rune from the event

[Tkwan]

 

 

Now when we get the final data we will do the comparison again and suitable zeny restrictions will happen so their average mixes in with our average. 

 

 

 

So just be sure to inform people then when the new data comes in, and perhaps even share the numbers with the community. Then take it to vote/poll to see how much the community (iRO2 and seaRO2) wants to bring over. Put it to vote and don't just make assumptive decisions. If you use the communities opinion and base your decision somewhere around a value of zeny and item restrictions that the community chooses, then you can find a better middle ground that will please both sides and we can at least for the moment, avoid a WP calamity.

 

 

 

To everyone else:

 

The quoted part above is the current decision. There's not really a point in arguing or debating the current decision further until they get the final numbers and data.

[Tonitrua]

If any individual here holds over a million zeny, then you should probably investigate them for potential cheating. I've been told through the grapevine that there's been plenty of exploits available in RO2.

 

I find it difficult to believe that a single individual could obtain that amount of zeny legitimately here, even with smart market playing.

 

I don't usually ever disclose any of my RO2 finances but I'll make an exception for this thread because there's so much misinformation floating around here, I earned several million zeny during the month of August through trading/merchanting alone. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean that none of the players on Odin legitimately have millions of zeny.

Sorry if that comes off as rude, or boastful, but you're commenting on a very serious issue that effects the future of this server without actually understanding what goes on in the RO2 market.

[AikaFuwa]

I don't usually ever disclose any of my RO2 finances but I'll make an exception for this thread because there's so much misinformation floating around here, I earned several million zeny during the month of August through trading/merchanting alone. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean that none of the players on Odin legitimately have millions of zeny.

Sorry if that comes off as rude, or boastful, but you're commenting on a very serious issue that effects the future of this server without actually understanding what goes on in the RO2 market.

 

Yeah I know only a few people in our server has that much money...but very few....

 

Definitely not me, cuz I only have around 700zeny left :'(

[magpi]

Lets keep this back on track before the fighting gets this topic closed.

 

Heim, thank you for responding to the hidden post. It didn't come across like that to me but i just really saw potential exploit written all over it. The high % seeds are a serious issue that just seems to keep getting skirted. I and MANY others do not have pre-aov seeds and it really needs to be addressed... so i have a question. The items they bring will be bound, but will their seeds be removable? If yes, will their seeds be bound as well?? In a fairness debate, the whole reason they are allowed to bring such items is because they earned them but what happens when new gear comes out and they want to transfer the seeds. it would be unfair for them to NOT be able to do that if it is the case. I am still pushing changing OUR % rates vs removing seeds completely. Please give us a change to ALL be on an even playing field.

[Musu]

@ Heim: My question is, how was this statistic gotten? Was it based off every SEA character on the entire server? Ones logged in the last 30 days? If it was based off every person who has ever played, that estimate is completely off. You're a smart man, you know that A LOT of us here posting had played the SEA version, and a lot of people quit their version when Warpportals was announced, this was WELL before the inflation hit their server. So you would be calculating people who haven't played the game in YEARS into the equation. Were my lvl 10 characters with like 20 zenny figured into this statistic?

[Tkwan]

I don't usually ever disclose any of my RO2 finances but I'll make an exception for this thread because there's so much misinformation floating around here, I earned several million zeny during the month of August through trading/merchanting alone. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean that none of the players on Odin legitimately have millions of zeny.

Sorry if that comes off as rude, or boastful, but you're commenting on a very serious issue that effects the future of this server without actually understanding what goes on in the RO2 market.

 

 

My second post basically nullifies my first one because heim said that this was not yet the final decision.

What I said was people should wait for a final final decision before fretting over this more, and that it should be put to vote for the community as a whole.

 

 

 

 

As much as I hate RO2 because I personally think it's a cheap game that has no real relation to RO1 other than thiefing a few names, I still don't want it to fail because its gravity's second highest grossing game. Bad business decisions on such an important piece of their company income will be felt across all their games.

[magpi]

Tkwan, they have asked us our opinions and have been listening. Unfortunately there is a chain of command that has to be followed before any changes can be made or information can be given... also this:

 

 

 I would rather have been quiet about the restrictions so less "working around the system" would have been possible, but an information vacuum also causes its own concerns in both communities.

 

 

It is a double edged sword. The hive mind looks at lack of information as "not listening" when the ones above us have their hands tied and have to deal with this. There are more than just our concerns that they have to deal with when it comes people taking advantage of the situation. Its not a matter of bad business, its more like damage control. 

[Savu91]

Sorry but I worry about something much more important? Given that the Asian version will close, who is it that will send the new content for the game? That new maps, new dungeons, new costumes, new classes and any other things like that? This factor worries me a lot more money and the economy. If someone knows and can reassure me, please give me an answer. thanks

[Tonitrua]

Sorry but I worry about something much more important? Given that the Asian version will close, who is it that will send the new content for the game? That new maps, new dungeons, new costumes, new classes and any other things like that? This factor worries me a lot more money and the economy. If someone knows and can reassure me, please give me an answer. thanks

 

SEA server is closing, both SEA and Odin get their content from Gravity, the new content we receive did not come from SEA.