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#1 kamoteee

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 11:40 PM

Heyya, forum! :D

This is my first post, but I'm just gonna make this a short one.

I was wondering if you guys have ideas/insights on how to make a Knight that's more inclined to PvP.

I would like to know more about this class, since this is the one I first took when I started playing the game, and I already tried the PvE build.

Also, I would like to ask the Pros and Cons if ever I'd take this type of build.

Please enlighten me, Good Sir/ Ma'am :p_smile: 

P.S. Sorry for bad english.
 


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#2 Shinyusuke

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 11:53 PM

I would say go full int for damage with battle tactis, use cards with high vit and str: vit to gain def and hp and str to gain hit points or directly osiris card normal +, avoid aura blade and shield fortress. Try to roll or buy a good shock rune. Refine only your weapon and your gears with most defence you don't need to refine all since after a certain point the defence is capped. Find a cheap 3s costumes and accessories and fill them whit int, vit +10 runes. A good honing would be one whit int, vit, critical, vigor (to reduce cooldown).
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#3 Arbalist

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 12:45 AM

I don't have a Knight, but I've seen them PVP pretty well. In my opinion they have great skills for PVP :D Playing around with skill simulator, I found that you can max out most of the things that make a great PVP character in general:

Things you'll definitely want:
-You have 2 stuns in the form of Shield Charge and Shield Bash. Max them both for lower cooldowns (20 seconds each, lucky!). You also have ranged Slow from Shield Boomerang which is very helpful for melee characters like Knight. Ensures that you'll almost always be hugging your opponent and less likely to be kited. Probably won't need to max it for perma-slow though, once you get more Vigor at high levels. 
-Battle Tactics for obvious OP power. Max Shield Cannon for your finisher move. Aura Sword and Bash for staple attack fillers.
-Agreeing with Shinyusuke to get Aura Armor over Aura Sword. Survival ability is much more important than a tiny (really tiny) boost in Atk. 

Situational skills:
-Not sure why Shield Fortress though :o Doesn't that prevent you from doing anything other than being a sitting duck? I guess you can stall a bit for cooldowns to end. Aura Shield on the other hand seems pretty neat if it doesn't lock you in place.
-Aura Heal is debatable in usefulness. It's not as strong as other classes' heals, but then again it's the only heal you have. And you would have enough skill points to spare if you really did reset to full PVP. 
-Grand Cross, having it is great for grinding, useful for Colosseum, but probably not used in Duels as much.
-If you're interested in only Duels, you won't need Ymir form since most people don't use Ymir in duels as common etiquette. In colo/woe, it's fair game. Up to you to get it or not.

...Damn I want a knight now.
P.S. My expertise is in Beastmaster, but we function pretty similarly in duels, so that's where my opinions are coming from. Knights seem to cover a lot of the the weak points I have and some of my strengths are your biggest weak points, so I think at least that makes the analysis decent at least :P


Edited by Arbalist, 24 October 2014 - 12:49 AM.

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#4 Shinyusuke

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 03:54 AM

I don't have a Knight, but I've seen them PVP pretty well. In my opinion they have great skills for PVP :D Playing around with skill simulator, I found that you can max out most of the things that make a great PVP character in general:

Things you'll definitely want:
-You have 2 stuns in the form of Shield Charge and Shield Bash. Max them both for lower cooldowns (20 seconds each, lucky!). You also have ranged Slow from Shield Boomerang which is very helpful for melee characters like Knight. Ensures that you'll almost always be hugging your opponent and less likely to be kited. Probably won't need to max it for perma-slow though, once you get more Vigor at high levels. 
-Battle Tactics for obvious OP power. Max Shield Cannon for your finisher move. Aura Sword and Bash for staple attack fillers.
-Agreeing with Shinyusuke to get Aura Armor over Aura Sword. Survival ability is much more important than a tiny (really tiny) boost in Atk. 

Situational skills:
-Not sure why Shield Fortress though :o Doesn't that prevent you from doing anything other than being a sitting duck? I guess you can stall a bit for cooldowns to end. Aura Shield on the other hand seems pretty neat if it doesn't lock you in place.
-Aura Heal is debatable in usefulness. It's not as strong as other classes' heals, but then again it's the only heal you have. And you would have enough skill points to spare if you really did reset to full PVP. 
-Grand Cross, having it is great for grinding, useful for Colosseum, but probably not used in Duels as much.
-If you're interested in only Duels, you won't need Ymir form since most people don't use Ymir in duels as common etiquette. In colo/woe, it's fair game. Up to you to get it or not.

...Damn I want a knight now.
P.S. My expertise is in Beastmaster, but we function pretty similarly in duels, so that's where my opinions are coming from. Knights seem to cover a lot of the the weak points I have and some of my strengths are your biggest weak points, so I think at least that makes the analysis decent at least :P

Your analisis it's quite good but i would never max shield bash too many points in a duel 90% of the time you won't use more than 1 shield bash


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#5 Lostac

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 07:26 AM

End game gears have a pretty good amount of vigor, you might also get some on hones, maxing out stuns isn't a bad idea.

Shield bash also generates 2 aura right? it's worth to max IMO.

 

Charge may also serve as your anti kiting move.

 

Oh right, fortress is great against sins that use shadow armor in duels, You can't do anything to stop them and it's hard to kite them, just tank it off using fortress.


Edited by Lostac, 25 October 2014 - 07:28 AM.

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#6 kamoteee

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:12 AM

So, guys, what would be the final skill build for the PvP Knight?

You have great analyses, and I find them really helpful.

One more thing I'd like the know are the odds between fighting one of these melee classes. Which one of them would be the last one standing? And why?

(Indicate ">" and "< " for "greater than" or "lesser than". NO BIAS. ) :p_laugh: 

A. Knight ___ Rogue

B. Knight ___ Assassin

C. Knight ___ Beastmaster

D. Knight ___ Monk

E. Knight ___ Warrior
 


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#7 Arbalist

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:52 AM

I was thinking of something like this specifically for duels: http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0
You could move the points from Aura Heal* to Shield Fortress I guess if you truly need that for countering Shadow Armor. Your finisher is Shield Cannon (with Aura Mastery proc, 2 Shield Cannons in a row), but honestly all the power comes from Battle Tactics. Bash and Aura Strike are your fillers, but still pretty strong again because of Battle Tactics.

*(note the description is wrong, you get 100% heal only with all 3 of your auras, not per aura) Seems like my info is outdated, disregard this.

Gears, stat builds, and player skill changes the PVP rankings considerably. I won't say who will beat who most of the time, but I'll comment on the one I know best:

VS Beastmaster
This matchup is all about how well you keep your distance. Beastmasters need Beast Points to pull off some of their deadliest chains, but lack any form of range damage. You will want to keep Shield Boomerang on them at all times. If you let them get close to you, they'll likely heal off any damage with Cruel Bite (up to 30% heal, no cooldown). But there's also a low cooldown stationary heal that heals up to 30%, so don't get too comfortable kiting them.

Make sure to only approach them when they are stunned otherwise they will pull off pretty significant chain damage or heals which you have a hard time recovering from. They too have two stuns, Beast Charge (20second cooldown) and Wild Impact (AOE Stun, 30 second cooldown) which you want to stay away from. The reason you need to have Shield Boomerang on at all times is to see them charging you (their only gap closer). If you can react by using your Charge, sadly it'll stun them first (I hate this part) and as an added bonus, put their skill on cooldown.

Because a Knight has poor healing skills, you want to finish any fight quickly. Depending on their stat build/Form choice/gears, they can have anywhere between 35k hp to 90k hp easily compared to your maybe 30-40k at ML30. You are unlikely to one-shot the 90k Grizzlies unless you keep them fully stunned during most of the duel and maybe have great luck with Aura Mastery, double Shield Cannon crits. If you can't defeat them in one short burst, they will heal the damage and likely beat you in endurance. In terms of vs Bear form, you have a decent chance of killing them with crits before they can heal it off in time.


Edited by Arbalist, 28 October 2014 - 07:02 PM.

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#8 kamoteee

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 06:27 PM

I was thinking of something like this specifically for duels: http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0
You could move the points from Aura Heal* to Shield Fortress I guess if you truly need that for countering Shadow Armor. Your finisher is Shield Cannon (with Aura Mastery proc, 2 Shield Cannons in a row), but honestly all the power comes from Battle Tactics. Bash and Aura Strike are your fillers, but still pretty strong again because of Battle Tactics.

*(note the description is wrong, you get 100% heal only with all 3 of your auras, not per aura)

Gears, stat builds, and player skill changes the PVP rankings considerably. I won't say who will beat who most of the time, but I'll comment on the one I know best:

VS Beastmaster
This matchup is all about how well you keep your distance. Beastmasters need Beast Points to pull off some of their deadliest chains, but lack any form of range damage. You will want to keep Shield Boomerang on them at all times. If you let them get close to you, they'll likely heal off any damage with Cruel Bite (up to 30% heal, no cooldown). But there's also a low cooldown stationary heal that heals up to 30%, so don't get too comfortable kiting them.

Make sure to only approach them when they are stunned otherwise they will pull off pretty significant chain damage or heals which you have a hard time recovering from. They too have two stuns, Beast Charge (20second cooldown) and Wild Impact (AOE Stun, 30 second cooldown) which you want to stay away from. The reason you need to have Shield Boomerang on at all times is to see them charging you (their only gap closer). If you can react by using your Charge, sadly it'll stun them first (I hate this part) and as an added bonus, put their skill on cooldown.

Because a Knight has poor healing skills, you want to finish any fight quickly. Depending on their stat build/Form choice/gears, they can have anywhere between 35k hp to 90k hp easily compared to your maybe 30-40k at ML30. You are unlikely to one-shot the 90k Grizzlies unless you keep them fully stunned during most of the duel and maybe have great luck with Aura Mastery, double Shield Cannon crits. If you can't defeat them in one short burst, they will heal the damage and likely beat you in endurance. In terms of vs Bear form, you have a decent chance of killing them with crits before they can heal it off in time.

Knight vs. Beastmaster: I bet this match would take hours to finish. LOL :heh: 

I'd like to ask... Is it possible to "cancel out" skills by your opponent using your own skills? Or should I put it, "Counter-skill"? If yes, what are the "Countering" Skills that a

Knight could possess?

(This is my own style whenever I get into PvP, mostly in other games. I usually go for counter-attack.) :3
 


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#9 rawker2

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 06:59 PM

In a no-potion duel, it won't take forever.

 

Even if your Shield Boomerang crits, if the Beastmaster has enough Vigor, he will just heal the damage you dealt on him. This will force you to charge and that's what Beastmasters wants you to do - they want  you to get into melee range and BAAAM! you're trapped. I haven't had the chance to duel that much but as a heads-up, dueling against Beastmasters are really a pain in the butt. It even forced me to make my own Beastmaster to understand how they function... and boy I was converted. Not that I have ditched Knighthood, I just included Beastmasters on my list of go-to classes.

 

As for Aura Heal, it is healing you for 100% per aura. I can confirm it. My ML21 Knight currently has 1081 Physical Skill Effect. I did a quick login to show you the amount of health regenerated by Aura Heal 6 with varying amount of stored aura. The result are as follows:

1 aura: 1,057

2 auras: 2,168

3 auras: 3,168

 

Also, Aura Heal can crit but is not affected by Battle Tactics. So with my current stat, I can get as much as 6,000 health healed.


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#10 Arbalist

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:02 PM

Nah, beastmaster vs beastmaster is the one that takes hours to finish (specifically grizzly vs grizzly). Knights will gradually be worn down as the fight drags on because Knight self-heals really suck compared to most classes.

The only way to cancel in this game should be only stun/immobilize skills, so the two stun skill Shield Charge and Shield Bash for Knights. I guess you can run out of range or run behind Mages to cancel their cast skills.


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#11 rawker2

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:18 PM

Knights are just like Monks... with a heal, minus the ability to refresh all cooldowns but can OHKO with OP Tactics. We need more Parry to drag the battle and out-heal the damage with our subpar healing skill. :D


Edited by rawker2, 28 October 2014 - 07:19 PM.

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#12 kamoteee

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:19 PM

In a no-potion duel, it won't take forever.

 

Even if your Shield Boomerang crits, if the Beastmaster has enough Vigor, he will just heal the damage you dealt on him. This will force you to charge and that's what Beastmasters wants you to do - they want  you to get into melee range and BAAAM! you're trapped. I haven't had the chance to duel that much but as a heads-up, dueling against Beastmasters are really a pain in the butt. It even forced me to make my own Beastmaster to understand how they function... and boy I was converted. Not that I have ditched Knighthood, I just included Beastmasters on my list of go-to classes.

 

As for Aura Heal, it is healing you for 100% per aura. I can confirm it. My ML21 Knight currently has 1081 Physical Skill Effect. I did a quick login to show you the amount of health regenerated by Aura Heal 6 with varying amount of stored aura. The result are as follows:

1 aura: 1,057

2 auras: 2,168

3 auras: 3,168

 

Also, Aura Heal can crit but is not affected by Battle Tactics. So with my current stat, I can get as much as 6,000 health healed.

I agree. The Beastmasters' scary HP and healing abilities are also some of the factors that make them a formidable opponent.

 

Nah, beastmaster vs beastmaster is the one that takes hours to finish (specifically grizzly vs grizzly). Knights will gradually be worn down as the fight drags on because Knight self-heals really suck compared to most classes.

The only way to cancel in this game should be only stun/immobilize skills, so the two stun skill Shield Charge and Shield Bash for Knights. I guess you can run out of range or run behind Mages to cancel their cast skills.

So, the conclusion would be, The beastmaster has the upper hand against the knight class (?)

What would be the advantages/disadvatanges between the two, given the right equips, stats, cards, skill build, etc.?

Are there other ways/ strategies that could help the Knights to gain more against them?
 


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#13 kamoteee

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:22 PM

Knights are just like Monks... with a heal, minus the ability to refresh all cooldowns but can OHKO with OP Tactics. We need more Parry to drag the battle and out-heal the damage with our subpar healing skill. :D

The only difference is that Knights have greater amounts of defense compared to Monks. But yeah, I think parrying would be effective when it comes to dealing with this kind of situation :p_smile:


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#14 rawker2

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:23 PM

I can't say that the fight is heavily skewed towards Beastmasters. Knights have OP Tactics. If RNGesus is kind to you during that duel, even if the Beastmaster has 100k mHP, he will still back out and try to drag the fight just to heal or better yet, net you with a win. While BMs anticipate incoming heavy damage, the other is praying that all his attacks crit.


Edited by rawker2, 28 October 2014 - 07:25 PM.

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#15 kamoteee

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:27 PM

Any Combo Cycle Strategies you can give for the Knight, Good Sirs? :p_smile:


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#16 kamoteee

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:32 PM

I can't say that the fight is heavily skewed towards Beastmasters. Knights have OP Tactics. If RNGesus is kind to you during that duel, even if the Beastmaster has 100k mHP, he will still back out and try to drag the fight just to heal or better yet, net you with a win. While BMs anticipate incoming heavy damage, the other is praying that all his attacks crit.

Perhaps the AGI-INT build for the knight could still prevail in this fight (that's what most of the Knights would say.) :p_laugh: But what would be the best stat build?

(considering how the stat points would be distributed and what cards to use for the character.)


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#17 xLuc

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:36 PM

Shield Charge > Sword Bash > Shield Bash > Shield Cannon. If dead, gg.

If not: either throw a Shield Boomerang (40% slow for 15 seconds) and kite or turtle behind Shield Fortress until Charge, Shield Bash and Cannon are up again.

 

Never engage on a "bash-bash-bash-aura strike" fight, it's awful for knights.


Edited by xLuc, 28 October 2014 - 07:37 PM.

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#18 rawker2

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:39 PM

I dunno about the rest but my plan on my knight is to just dump all my stat points on INT.

 

As for runes, I still have to get better equipment to see if I would then have to invest on AGI runes or still stick to INT runes. If both fails, there's no harm going all VIT runes for the extra meat.


Edited by rawker2, 28 October 2014 - 07:40 PM.

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#19 xLuc

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:47 PM

About the stats, AGI is a waste of bonus points. Knights get 1 crit per AGI, and about 300 critical = 1%, which means it doesn't pay off remotely as well as INT. STR you already get from gears and etc. The one down side of focusing only INT on bonus stats/runes is you end up with quite a low Hit rate, but that can be worked around with Pump it Up Pills.

 

I use a bit of VIT on my bonus stats, but most of people go full INT.

Considering to re-stat just to check how things go.


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#20 kamoteee

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:48 PM

Shield Charge > Sword Bash > Shield Bash > Shield Cannon. If dead, gg.

If not: either throw a Shield Boomerang (40% slow for 15 seconds) and kite or turtle behind Shield Fortress until Charge, Shield Bash and Cannon are up again.

 

Never engage on a "bash-bash-bash-aura strike" fight, it's awful for knights.

 

Thanks for the tips, Sir xLuc... What would be the skill build for this type of Combo Cycle? And as for Aura Strike, is it okay if I drop it to Lvl. 1 and not use it? (Since you said that it'd be awful for us knights.) :p_smile: 

 

I dunno about the rest but my plan on my knight is to just dump all my stat points on INT.

 

As for runes, I still have to get better equipment to see if I would then have to invest on AGI runes or still stick to INT runes. If both fails, there's no harm going all VIT runes for the extra meat.

I've heard about the Pure VIT build for the Knight. Is it really worth it or just plain nonsense?
 


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#21 xLuc

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:55 PM

Thanks for the tips, Sir xLuc... What would be the skill build for this type of Combo Cycle? And as for Aura Strike, is it okay if I drop it to Lvl. 1 and not use it? (Since you said that it'd be awful for us knights.) :p_smile: 
 

 

Oh yea, here's the full PVP build I'm using: http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

 

It's ok to drop both Sword Bash and Aura Strike to level 1, yep.

Your PVE damage won't be as great as before though, mind that.

Again it's a full PVP build, duh, hahaha.

 

Max skill points btw


Edited by xLuc, 28 October 2014 - 07:56 PM.

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#22 kamoteee

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:55 PM

About the stats, AGI is a waste of bonus points. Knights get 1 crit per AGI, and about 300 critical = 1%, which means it doesn't pay off remotely as well as INT. STR you already get from gears and etc. The one down side of focusing only INT on bonus stats/runes is you end up with quite a low Hit rate, but that can be worked around with Pump it Up Pills.

 

I use a bit of VIT on my bonus stats, but most of people go full INT.

Considering to re-stat just to check how things go.

AGI can also give +Accuracy like the STR stat.

But I was wondering... Would it be okay if the AGI and INT stats are balanced? What would be the advantages/ disadvantages with this type of build?
 


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#23 xLuc

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:58 PM

AGI gives 1 accuracy while STR gives 2. The only benefit would be the 2 dodge, but that can't even be considered a benefit imo.

Knight's stat bonis are totally random, they don't benefit much of both of them.


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#24 rawker2

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 08:00 PM

It all depends on your playstyle.

 

Master Level Knight equipment give 0 INT. That's the reason why most Knights dump all their stats on INT. If you have Battle Tactics 2, you gain an additional 100% crit damage per 250 INT. The first 250 is a no-brainer, but if your plan is to just reach 400% crit damage which is like a crit of a crit, then by all means, get enough INT to hit 500 INT and then spend the rest on either AGI, for more crit chance or VIT to be more survivable.

 

Also, like the person above stated, Knights get 2 Accuracy per point on STR. Knights do have some issues regarding hit rates. If you're happy with your survivability with VIT coming from equipment only, then put points in STR. Now let me just get a sturdy shield to receive incoming bombardment from anti-STR knights. ;p


Edited by rawker2, 28 October 2014 - 08:03 PM.

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