317 replies to this topic

[Phish]

lol what are u trying to do? lol kill champs? or turn them the way they were in the past? the only problem i see here for champs is there m-speed nothing else, nerfing anything else more then that will kill champs, you have to remember if you lower m-speed champs will take longer to reach its target and might even die before getting to the target.

Biggest (fattest) exaggeration I've ever heard. This isn't pre orlo where people die in 2 seconds.


Champs will still be completely dominant in pvm if only mspeed is lowered.

Edited by Phish, 03 January 2011 - 10:27 PM.

[Irtofu]

Biggest (fattest) exaggeration I've ever heard. This isn't pre orlo where people die in 2 seconds.


Champs will still be completely dominant in pvm if only mspeed is lowered.

lol-.- pvm? lol what aoe class has a hard time pvming?lol so dont think that even matters lol

[DestinyDeoxys]

Nerf their mspeed passive to default is a must! Then reduce their Charge by half down to 50%! Well after that I don't know, I only have a 160 champ for fun

But seriously, how many months or years u think the GM gonna take to do something regarding this? Like they can't even reply their 1 on 1 Support ticket on time lololol...

[Soda]

lol what are u trying to do? lol kill champs? or turn them the way they were in the past? the only problem i see here for champs is there m-speed nothing else, nerfing anything else more then that will kill champs, you have to remember if you lower m-speed champs will take longer to reach its target and might even die before getting to the target.

Removing mute will kill champs? hmm.. Last time i check aoeing mid and being able to get away with it doesnt involve using a mute.

20% def, 10% hp 10%(or 20%) M-spd is srsly gonna "kill champs" with their high ap, insane aoe debuffs? Your making it sound like dropping from 12k def (LOL which is more def than my knight with ref 10 gears i got 10k def only) to 9k-10k def is gonna make a diff. Like everyone says, def scales poorly that you can hardly see the diff from a small amount like 100-2xx def below/higher.

[Irtofu]

Removing mute will kill champs? hmm.. Last time i check aoeing mid and being able to get away with it doesnt involve using a mute.

20% def, 10% hp 10%(or 20%) M-spd is srsly gonna "kill champs" with their high ap, insane aoe debuffs? Your making it sound like dropping from 12k def (LOL which is more def than my knight with ref 10 gears i got 10k def only) to 9k-10k def is gonna make a diff. Like everyone says, def scales poorly that you can hardly see the diff from a small amount like 100-2xx def below/higher.

no, but nerfing def, m-speed, hp, m-speed and taking away their mute will and also lol... 100-2xx defense? 20% defense is not 100-200 defense can u try and do the math, from what u said 12k defense im assuming this is with defense pot + 15 chiv gear on a champ and defense buff set, 20% is not 100-200 defense thats 2400 defense. Also fyi, champs arnt the only class that can get that high defense, defense clerics can get like 12k+ defense also

Edited by Irtofu, 04 January 2011 - 01:19 AM.

[Blitzkrieg]

no, but nerfing def, m-speed, hp, m-speed and taking away their mute will and also lol... 100-2xx defense? 20% defense is not 100-200 defense can u try and do the math, from what u said 12k defense im assuming this is with defense pot + 15 chiv gear on a champ and defense buff set, 20% is not 100-200 defense thats 2400 defense. Also fyi, champs arnt the only class that can get that high defense, defense clerics can get like 12k+ defense also

please dont compare champs to clerics

ever seen the armour of cleric equips ?????.....their def really sucks

here are the values
(unrefined)
mighty armour(soldier lvl 85 armour)-330 def
orlean robe - 325 def
aurum plame mail-694 def
CHAMP ARMOUR HAS MORE THAN DOUBLE DEF SO DONT MAKE LAME COMPARISONS....even soldire lvl 85 armour has more def
effectively both cleric and champ get 30% def passives with champ gettin 100 def extra (doesnt matter still)

SO HOW DO YOU EXPECT A CLERIC TO TANK

i know u are gonna say heal but 1 stun OR mute is the end of the story for a cleric
ALSO...cleric dont get all that massive HP/MSPD/AOES/DEBUFFS/AP that a champ has got

i seriously doubt if a cleric can get 12K + def
even if they did a cleric would only last longer but in the end they LOSE.....

SO STOP COMPLAINING AND ACCEPT HOW OP CHAMPS ARE AND JOIN SPAN AND US FOR CHAMPS TO BE BROUGHT AT PAR WITH OTHER CLASSES

[Soda]

no, but nerfing def, m-speed, hp, m-speed and taking away their mute will and also lol... 100-2xx defense? 20% defense is not 100-200 defense can u try and do the math, from what u said 12k defense im assuming this is with defense pot + 15 chiv gear on a champ and defense buff set, 20% is not 100-200 defense thats 2400 defense. Also fyi, champs arnt the only class that can get that high defense, defense clerics can get like 12k+ defense also

I mean 1k-2k.. i miss 1 zero.. My point is champs can get 11k-12k def like adam said on his champ but still get high m-spd/ap. Now try to compare that with a cleric, I tried using only half def gears and i was already running so slow. Def gear = crappy heals, crap m-spd. Champs with like 9k def as an example = Lightning speed, A-spd is fast, Ap like what? 5k being the lowest even with less ap gears. As ive mentioned above, you and span are the only person that are looking at things one sided, OMG NO THE DEF! even knights can get 20k def, but with 20k def what can the knight even kill? , ALSO MAGES CAN GET HIGH AP, and die in 5 hits (ur point is?), NOT THE HP! , oh please.. 10% of hp is like what? 2-3k hp? and dont see any reason how 2-3k can make a diff when you can even reach 20k hp without wearing any rein.

[Soda]

SO HOW DO YOU EXPECT A CLERIC TO TANK

i know u are gonna say heal but 1 stun OR mute is the end of the story for a cleric
ALSO...cleric dont get all that massive HP/MSPD/AOES/DEBUFFS/AP that a champ has got

i seriously doubt if a cleric can get 12K + def
even if they did a cleric would only last longer but in the end they LOSE.....

SO STOP COMPLAINING AND ACCEPT HOW OP CHAMPS ARE AND JOIN SPAN AND US FOR CHAMPS TO BE BROUGHT AT PAR WITH OTHER CLASSES

EXACTLY. Ive been playing UW 24/7 and all it takes to drop down a cleric is at least 2 stuns and a mute. THATS IT. Try muting a champ, i bet he can just run away and just regain the hp and fight back again like nothing happened.

"WHAT ABOUT THE MAGES AND BATTLE CLERIC!? "

... With your lighting speed, fast a-spd do you really want me to start explaining how easy it is to kill a mage. Maybe they can do high damage to you, but its still easy to drop them down in 5 hits. Battle cleric, how many battle clerics have you seen playing anyway? The only reason why i rarely play my cleric now is because its so slow and the only class i stand a chance against with 50-50 is champs and with their m-spd down it even makes it harder to run away. Heal? , oh sorry i forgot champs have MUTE.

[Phish]

lol-.- pvm? lol what aoe class has a hard time pvming?lol so dont think that even matters lol

Mages can still die easily in pvm if they are mobbed by alot of enemies. Bourgs have to be cautious if they are fighting bosses. And the gap between a champs defense and a clerics defense is huge. Sure they can both get 30% defense passives (the cleric needs to sacrifice a load of skill points to do so, the champ needs to sacrifice 13 points) but champs base defense on armor is significiantly higher than clerics.


If you are arguining that they (champs) aren't to defensivily strong you are just being indenial. They should lose either some defense, hp or a small amount of both. Dropping 10% is still going to give them the second highest defense anyway.

[twitch]

[font="Trebuchet MS"]Removing mute will kill champs? hmm.. Last time i check aoeing mid and being able to get away with it doesnt involve using a mute.

20% def, 10% hp 10%(or 20%)

tbh this would probably do it.(im a champ) i agree on this.

[Irtofu]

tbh this would probably do it.(im a champ) i agree on this.

lol thats not all he wants to remove, he wants hp, defense ,m-speed and even mute lmao

[Irtofu]

Mages can still die easily in pvm if they are mobbed by alot of enemies. Bourgs have to be cautious if they are fighting bosses. And the gap between a champs defense and a clerics defense is huge. Sure they can both get 30% defense passives (the cleric needs to sacrifice a load of skill points to do so, the champ needs to sacrifice 13 points) but champs base defense on armor is significiantly higher than clerics.


If you are arguining that they (champs) aren't to defensivily strong you are just being indenial. They should lose either some defense, hp or a small amount of both. Dropping 10% is still going to give them the second highest defense anyway.

lets see, where do u find lots of mobs that actually is a problem at 220?lol and with the hp pots now, I dont see how this is really a problem

[Blitzkrieg]

1)movespeed down 25% (ie. remove quick step and add sprint like movespeed buff (35% max lvl) or just remove it and make charge non prerequisite skill)
2)make advanced spear mastery and spear mastery give- movespeed passive 10% and 10% aspd passive instead of 20% and 20% for each (it will only affect knights MS)...to compensate for that soulwreck MS down duration or % can be increased
3)siesmic impact dodge down % reduced by 10%
4)replace critical from axe to splash damage (ie.% chance to to do AOE damage in 4 meter radius ON MELEE ATTACK)(considering axe dont have AOE)
5)MUTE REMOVED
6)9 SPs required to max combat resilience
7)defence training will maxx out at lvl 5....remaining def gain shifted to knight tree
8)achilles heel strike AP down 15% mat max lvl
9)charge duration increased by two seconds...cooldown increased by 5 seconds

[twitch]

lol thats not all he wants to remove, he wants hp, defense ,m-speed and even mute lmao

So I still agree dude idk if u played a champ before but to die it's tough idk what classes u play but u should try playing bourg or Mage and then compare the two

[Soda]

So I still agree dude idk if u played a champ before but to die it's tough idk what classes u play but u should try playing bourg or Mage and then compare the two

La la la... Dont bother arguing i think ill give up

Edit: Its funny how Adam just agrees and then this 2 boobs keeps saying how they shouldn't be nerf. Hmm, I wonder who played the class champ the longest that is even worth giving their own basis on the class. Oh wait, its adam.

Edited by Soda, 05 January 2011 - 11:18 PM.

[Irtofu]

So I still agree dude idk if u played a champ before but to die it's tough idk what classes u play but u should try playing bourg or Mage and then compare the two

played both, and have both and dont see how its really a problem at all in most cases, a lot of mages got bonfire and also defense and hp/mp buff and heal so how is it even a problem? bourgs aoe are long ranged, meaning you dont have to be right infront of the mobs to kill it, and in most cases the monsters will do minimal or no damage to the bourg.

[Irtofu]

1)movespeed down 25% (ie. remove quick step and add sprint like movespeed buff (35% max lvl) or just remove it and make charge non prerequisite skill)
2)make advanced spear mastery and spear mastery give- movespeed passive 10% and 10% aspd passive instead of 20% and 20% for each (it will only affect knights MS)...to compensate for that soulwreck MS down duration or % can be increased
3)siesmic impact dodge down % reduced by 10%
4)replace critical from axe to splash damage (ie.% chance to to do AOE damage in 4 meter radius ON MELEE ATTACK)(considering axe dont have AOE)
5)MUTE REMOVED
6)9 SPs required to max combat resilience
7)defence training will maxx out at lvl 5....remaining def gain shifted to knight tree
8)achilles heel strike AP down 15% mat max lvl
9)charge duration increased by two seconds...cooldown increased by 5 seconds

lmao, so now its not only the defense, m-speed , hp , its also a-speed debuffs and mute lmao

[Blitzkrieg]

played both, and have both and dont see how its really a problem at all in most cases, a lot of mages got bonfire and also defense and hp/mp buff and heal so how is it even a problem? bourgs aoe are long ranged, meaning you dont have to be right infront of the mobs to kill it, and in most cases the monsters will do minimal or no damage to the bourg.

i bet my life u didnt play em
if u did it was PVM no doubt
play PVP and then u will know
LOL at hp/mp buff u mentioned as one of thier specialities
also dont talk about defence (lvl 85 champ armour gives more def than a lvl 200 mage armour)

bourgs generally never have an upper hand in 1v1 pvp
mages get TOO EASILY mobbed in UW
none of them run around like GODZILLA WITH ROLLER SKATES
they are no where close to a CHAMP in PVM
and they never beat a champ in PVP(unless u are a really really lame champ)

[Soda]

never beat a champ in PVP(unless u are a really really lame champ)[/b]

If were talking self buffs here, you can win vs a champ but whats the use of pvp anyway when all ppl do is war. You can avoid doing pvp if you want to but wars is always there.

[Blitzkrieg]

If were talking self buffs here, you can win vs a champ but whats the use of pvp anyway when all ppl do is war. You can avoid doing pvp if you want to but wars is always there.

i m saying cleric buffed .....
u have got a point
datz y i suggested before if all the nerfs we are suggesting are implemented
champs shud get some as good as POT.... ms,HP and def buff

[kaminichuan]

Battle clerics couldn't deal a scratch on champions ? Lol what a joke . Clerics r able to tank better then knights if u have more then 20k + HP which is possible with A7s and 5 or more heals , yet u call that easy to kill ? Seriously what the hell .

I have to agree with span here, clerics are a bit of an anti-champ with ranged magic damage.. I drop most champs down like flies in war if they aren't in speed gear. And they can tank many players easily, but knights are a mystery to me, they seem to do really well too.. And I've done 6-7k damage to span with aura before in a war so maybe that's why he's complaining

As a battle cleric I survive reasonably well.. not many have been able to kill me in 1v1 war situations while I'm healing and using red potions in defence gear..
(special mention to that YUMMYCHEEZE champ... even with my aura I still lose to his flashing potions.. how does he do that?!!! It feels like fighting a pre-nerfed jelly user when alone.. o_O.)

But non-aura's blessing battle clerics are slow, quite weak, terrible mp (especially if you use IM cleric buffs), and no threat at all to any other class in war (unless enemy has much lower refines). Battle clerics are still more useful in war as healers. They are NOT epic fighters

--
Anyway, sorry to change the topic lets get back to champs..

Champs in speed gear is simply ridiculous.
The defence/hp/ap/aspeed combination is ..overpowered (how else to describe it hmm)

Others have already said it but I may as well stick in my vote/spam:
champs need less hp, defence, and most definately MSPEED!!
A few champs spamming aoe will easily!! clear many many many people in war with pretty low risk...

Their mute isn't that dangerous since it doesn't last that long anyway. And I believe the cooldown is quite long. I haven't bothered to play my champ past level 190 so I can't speak for sure. Some confirmation from Phish? You are great with the stats

I think mute should stay, for now at least.



*throws snowball*

[Soda]

But non-aura's blessing battle clerics are slow, quite weak, terrible mp (especially if you use IM cleric buffs),

I was gonna point this out. Glad you said it urself. Not everyone is willing to spend 6-10m for arua you know.

Edited by Soda, 06 January 2011 - 06:30 AM.

[Span]

If we follow everything blitz says i would definitely quit my champ

• The speed passives ( quick step and spear mastery ) should be removed .
• Champ's aoes success rate % reduced to 50 ~ 60 %
• Defense training moved to knight skill tab
• Soul wreck effect duration increased to at least 10 seconds .
• Charge visual glitch fixed

That should stop coward champs from hit and run / aoe and run .

Tbh , champs doesn't really have any problem fighting other classes in faction wars , u just need the right set . If anyone is gonna mention about mages / clerics , get magic defense , i did and it worked out well .

Edited by Span, 06 January 2011 - 06:40 AM.

[Phish]

1)movespeed down 25% (ie. remove quick step and add sprint like movespeed buff (35% max lvl) or just remove it and make charge non prerequisite skill)
2)make advanced spear mastery and spear mastery give- movespeed passive 10% and 10% aspd passive instead of 20% and 20% for each (it will only affect knights MS)...to compensate for that soulwreck MS down duration or % can be increased
3)siesmic impact dodge down % reduced by 10%
4)replace critical from axe to splash damage (ie.% chance to to do AOE damage in 4 meter radius ON MELEE ATTACK)(considering axe dont have AOE)
5)MUTE REMOVED
6)9 SPs required to max combat resilience
7)defence training will maxx out at lvl 5....remaining def gain shifted to knight tree
8)achilles heel strike AP down 15% mat max lvl
9)charge duration increased by two seconds...cooldown increased by 5 seconds

Quick step should be lowered to maybe 10% mspeed at max level. Or it could be removed completely and charge could be a made an additional mspeed buff with a 20 second cooldown.


Lowering the spear passives? Ehh, 20% mspeed and 20% aspeed are they too high? 40% acc from the sword passives are high too but I don't know if the offensive stats should be hampered with.

Soul wreck is fine with it's short duration (remember this would effect knights too.)


I think the mspeed down status should be removed from the aoes, or atleast, they shouldn't have dual status effects down. (maybe spin attack could have mspeed down but not aspeed down).

But non-aura's blessing battle clerics are slow, quite weak, terrible mp (especially if you use IM cleric buffs), and no threat at all to any other class in war (unless enemy has much lower refines). Battle clerics are still more useful in war as healers. They are NOT epic fighters

I agree...

their mute isn't that dangerous since it doesn't last that long anyway. And I believe the cooldown is quite long. I haven't bothered to play my champ past level 190 so I can't speak for sure. Some confirmation from Phish? You are great with the stats

I think mute should stay, for now at least.

*throws snowball*

It's 5 second duration with a 24 second cooldown. Not really a big problem but it adds to a champ's endless versatality. To be honest I only even considered it should be removed when I was plying as a mage and having to fight more than one champ at once....

[twitch]

If we follow everything blitz says i would definitely quit my champ

• The speed passives ( quick step and spear mastery ) should be removed .
• Champ's aoes success rate % reduced to 50 ~ 60 %
• Defense training moved to knight skill tab
• Soul wreck effect duration increased to at least 10 seconds .
• Charge visual glitch fixed

That should stop coward champs from hit and run / aoe and run .

Tbh , champs doesn't really have any problem fighting other classes in faction wars , u just need the right set . .

thats kinda the problem?