232 replies to this topic

[belenoi]

Ok, so Facekiller doesn't want to discuss this anymore, but I do.

 

So if anyone doesn't know:

"Due to widespread abuse of an exploit regarding Endless Tower's cooldown, GMs have decided to revert the tower's mechanics back to the original system. What this means is:

- aside from Floor 50, there are no other checkpoints anymore. If you die, you have to walk all the way back from Floor 1/50 to the floor you died on.

- in case you are disconnected inside the tower and need to re-enter, you need to use the item 'Ashes of Darkness'. You're given two of them at the start of the instance.

- these ashes have 4 hour timers on them, and they're character bound which means you can't put them on storage and share them amongst your characters anymore." (thank you DarkGazer for that info)

 

So, let's talk about this. Nothing bad happened right? Abusers can't abuse, another exploit removed. Congrats? No. I think that's a good example how can our GMs fail at everything they do (even if that's a good thing) and make all sides suffer.

1. Where do you think I copy\pasted that info from? Official cite, maintenance topic, iro facebook? No I got it from my friend and guildmate. After that I search forums for any info, find locked (!) topic with this: "We thought we had announced it. But the change went in this week and it looks like the notes weren't posted because Oda had to go home sick 4 hours before the maintenance was completed." This is why it's impossible to take you, gms seriously. You thought you announced it? Wat? It was one of the most important changes this week. This is the first thing you should have put in notes. Or did you make this change last moment? "What to change, what to change... Oh let's fix ET!  After many months stars are saying today is the best day!" And what about after that? Now, when I'm writing I still can't see info about that anywhere. 
2. The 2nd thing is not only about ET, but about how you fix things in general. Why every time you fight griefers, exploits, botters you do it so normal players have to suffer? People abusing desocketing - let's remove it. Abusing DBs - let's make DBs useless. Bots using storage - let's DC anyone who takes items from it "too fast". Etc... I can't believe there was no other way to fix ET. And why only 2 ashes??? People can't abuse them, right? So why not give, I don't know, 10? At least? Because, you know, I might really start to think you want people to buy kafra cards...
3. And the most fun part - they didn't fix anything. Now people can re-enter it from 50th floor. So - more exploits, prices drop, hate, etc. Maybe this could be avoided if they've found some other, normal, way to fix this.

And all this happens right after rollback. And please don't say they had so many problems with rollback, so they couldn't do it right. No one asked them to do it this week. They had all the time in the world to fix this right since this exploit was first reported. And, btw, you know what? We, players, had troubles with rollback too and they gave us even more.

Edited by belenoi, 01 November 2014 - 11:47 AM.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Agreed with them taking steps to inform the community. What they've done so far is pretty much nonexistent, and most players don't even read the forums, let alone some random locked topic in the community chat.

 

Disagreed with your interpretation of the changes made. This is how kRO does it. Being provided with infinite access to the instance within the time limit was far too much leeway to begin with.

 

I'm actually finding it refreshing to see action taken beyond straight up removal of the content, or a vague "we're working to resolve the issue" with no action taken at all!

[OniichanN]

Oh, and I was wondering why I had to walk from floor 50 (the new teleport to floor I guess).

[Inubashiri]

The ET thing has been happening for a LONG time now, one way or another it had to be changed to something else.

[belenoi]

 

Disagreed with your interpretation of the changes made. This is how kRO does it. Being provided with infinite access to the instance within the time limit was far too much leeway to begin with.

 

 

Ok you're right. I'm not saying they did a bad thing. It's about how they did it. And once again - why only 2 tokens? This can't be enough. Genes and suras need to go back to town to clear cart\restock supplies. So if do it 2 times and then DC... It's ridiculous to force us to use cash shop items like this.

 

The ET thing has been happening for a LONG time now, one way or another it had to be changed to something else.

 

Yes, that's a good change. Sad I can't say "thank you" after the way they did it.

[Inubashiri]

Yes, that's a good change. Sad I can't say "thank you" after the way they did it.

 

A good case of be careful what you wish for.

[hoikarnage]

If Oda was sick I guess that's a valid enough excuse, but i do worry about how truly connected to the community our so called community managers are. Especially when they just "forget" woe last thursday and have to start an hour later.

 

Not to mention they don't even know their own updates. Like last Tiki Tuesday we asked for level 10 merc scrolls to be made vendible, since they are already buyable, and instead of looking into it, they just denied level 10 scrolls are buyable, despite the fact that that change was only made a couple maintenances ago and there are B> Merc scroll shops all over pront.

 

Add to that the general dumbfoundedness they seem to express when the community complains about something. Our CM's have lost touch with the community, and instead of becoming more involved, they just lock threads and ban users.

[spikexp]

Lol. My friends went to ET yesterday and they didn't realize until I told them this afternoon.

[belenoi]

A good case of be careful what you wish for.

 

I wish they would make game DC-free, before implementing such changes.

Edited by belenoi, 01 November 2014 - 02:26 AM.

[PervySageMarty]

Get over it, whats done is done.

[belenoi]

Get over it, whats done is done.

 

No way. They need at least to change the number of ashes. And, btw, because of such attitude they think they can do anything and don't feel like they need to inform us. And we keep paying for vips, etc. 

 

And with this system they are making us buy more tokens and kafra cards.

[Inubashiri]

If Oda was sick I guess that's a valid enough excuse, but i do worry about how truly connected to the community our so called community managers are. Especially when they just "forget" woe last thursday and have to start an hour later.

 

Not to mention they don't even know their own updates. Like last Tiki Tuesday we asked for level 10 merc scrolls to be made vendible, since they are already buyable, and instead of looking into it, they just denied level 10 scrolls are buyable, despite the fact that that change was only made a couple maintenances ago and there are B> Merc scroll shops all over pront.

 

Add to that the general dumbfoundedness they seem to express when the community complains about something. Our CM's have lost touch with the community, and instead of becoming more involved, they just lock threads and ban users.

 

Would you want to become close to a community who constantly mocks and insults you?  Ever consider it was just a misunderstanding about the merc scrolls?  I've used words interchangeably before and tripped them up until I clarified.

 

Oda was indeed sick, he went home early that day.  WoE didn't start because the server just didn't spawn it, it was set to do it.

 

They aren't the ones who are locking threads and banning on the forums usually.  If a person gets banned they usually did something to deserve it, locking of threads is usually more the community's fault for not having an adult conversation.

 

I think tbh the community should relax on the bashing at EVERY little thing, we are blessed to have the CMs we do, the other game CMs barely come up for air let alone make content where we have a voice as well as online content.  Ever think they could just throw their hands up in the air and quit from the constant verbal abuse and get stuck with someone worse.

 

I'm not saying they are without their faults and we can work on that but damn cut some slack they do have a lot to do and do a lot for the community thats not always known.

[Junchikun]

.Anyone or even a kids can be a GM already ...GM job should try their best to let we player enjoy the game...But for the past few mths, server seem to get quite a few rolling back, Bugged NPC and DC suddenly...Just that for what i think, GM dont really know what the feeling when item lost in a roll back, and effort gone down to a waste...

Edited by Inubashiri, 01 November 2014 - 03:30 AM.

[wodrew]

Endless tower:

-a place that where Guild event made once a week/ monthly.

-a place where u can earn zenny to improve ur MVP skills in order to reduce uses of resources and save time.

-a place where u trying every single class that u created 150/50 to soloing, duo, trio to see ur achievements how far u can go other than getting 12/12 party.

 

After knowing Endless tower save point--> 5 floor to current is a CUSTOMIZED by iro... I was...why u made this in the first place?! If u know u gonna removed it one day due to useless abuser...and i though wow finally is it a renewal system? goodbye suffer in pre renewal ET...

 

Guess this update to control Mvp card to be obtain tooo easyly. But can u use other solution that removed the customized? U can make a two week timer/disable usage of bubble gum?

 

I dont find anything fun after floor 85+ seem we are going to walk from floor 50 if full party wiped, without god item/ MVP card all those party players made to ET is taking longer time to kill MVP. Also spamming using token to ress an AB and hoping the full party will be ressed by him? impossible..

 

Any other solution?

[Beata]

So the main problem here is the lack of communication? Yes it's true. At least it would give people a heads up about the change and prepare accordingly. What I don't understand is the anger about ET change itself that would make soloing through the floors harder. Not to be mean or anything but as easy it can be ET is a group orientated instance, it is never meant to be solo-ed. If you want to argue about how this change is going to force you use more consumables and kafra items then perhaps it's time to rethink a better strategy to down the instance.

 

Aside from all of that, I would strongly agree on the issue of getting disconnected inside an instance specially if its inside ET. Walking all the way back due to that is not pleasant, but what else could be done? If the instance can save the progress and doesn't boot a disconnected character to save point then that would be great. But then again, this will probably open other doors to exploits looking at how old RO programming is.

 

Personally I am thankful the exploit been addressed even though it took so long and oh silently too.

[alphasync]

can anyone confirm that if you exit the ET instance and need to go back, that re-entering would take one ashes of darkness

 

cause i went to ET just now, got out, and got back in but it didnt took my ashes of darkness

 

pls correct me if im wrong

 

EDIT : ok i just tested and it seems that the tower only takes your ashes if u dc, from ppls reaction i got the impression that if you exit ET (either by bwing or dcing) and then re-enter it would take your ashes everytime, guess i shouldve read that information carefully

Edited by alphasync, 01 November 2014 - 05:06 AM.

[Hikusaak]

The players who didn't abuse the thing also get punished with this action.

Time to add another to the list.

-Dead Branch cool down ✔

-Dragon Breath delay ✔

-Endless Tower check point and reentering requirement ✔

 

Cheers fellas,get wasted while it all lasts

 

Or perhaps you can add more in case I missed any

[meoryou2]

Would you want to become close to a community who constantly mocks and insults you?  Ever consider it was just a misunderstanding about the merc scrolls?  I've used words interchangeably before and tripped them up until I clarified.

 

Oda was indeed sick, he went home early that day.  WoE didn't start because the server just didn't spawn it, it was set to do it.

 

They aren't the ones who are locking threads and banning on the forums usually.  If a person gets banned they usually did something to deserve it, locking of threads is usually more the community's fault for not having an adult conversation.

 

I think tbh the community should relax on the bashing at EVERY little thing, we are blessed to have the CMs we do, the other game CMs barely come up for air let alone make content where we have a voice as well as online content.  Ever think they could just throw their hands up in the air and quit from the constant verbal abuse and get stuck with someone worse.

 

I'm not saying they are without their faults and we can work on that but damn cut some slack they do have a lot to do and do a lot for the community thats not always known.

 

If they don't want to be mocked / insulted maybe they should focus on not messing up at every turn. The iRO GMs have no idea how to properly manage servers... Just some random examples:

 

Last maintenance - Windows updates can be pre-installed since system files don't get replaced until the server is rebooted. The bulk of the time for updates is just after the download - whether from MS themselves or from a WSUS server - not the reboot and install time.  Install updates earlier in the week at lowest peak user time > reboot VMs to install updates at normal maintenance times > reboot the hard iron to install updates. 

 

Homunculus intimacy - No reason to have a NPC or flags or anything else in game to mess up. Simply update the DB using a SQL command to set every homunculus in current existence to 910 intimacy. This won't hurt anything, and would be much much easier than designing a NPC > creating an extra DB entry for the flag, reading the DB for the flag > going to set the homunculus intimacy. 

 

Oda sick blah blah blah - Don't have a single point of failure in your customer communication chain, everyone down to the damn janitor of the building should know whats going on for the week and can post on the forums to make sure screwups like this don't happen. That way if the GMs are running around with their hair / servers on fire there can still be communication as to what is happening. 

 

Server DB going brain dead and rollbacks - The service is available 24/7, there should be someone there 24/7 that monitors both internal and user facing systems... this includes forums. A simple check every 15-30 minutes of the forums could have alerted the ( should be on call in case of emergency ) people that needed to know hours earlier. 

 

 

I could go on an on, but just review business 101 and you see Gravity making every mistake they warn against. It's almost like they intentionally go against best practices, so it is no surprise that their users are upset. The only surprise is that they have any paying users left at all.

I know I for one don't plan on paying for VIP anymore ( and I had been a subscriber since iRO was released ), at least not until their business practices improve and I can feel like they actually deserve it. Hell, as much as we used to complain back in the day as well, the servers pretty much ran smoothly; compared to the last few years the servers were golden in the times when the GMs/CMs never talked to us. 

[Inubashiri]

If they don't want to be mocked / insulted maybe they should focus on not messing up at every turn. The iRO GMs have no idea how to properly manage servers... Just some random examples:

 

Last maintenance - Windows updates can be pre-installed since system files don't get replaced until the server is rebooted. The bulk of the time for updates is just after the download - whether from MS themselves or from a WSUS server - not the reboot and install time.  Install updates earlier in the week at lowest peak user time > reboot VMs to install updates at normal maintenance times > reboot the hard iron to install updates. 

 

Homunculus intimacy - No reason to have a NPC or flags or anything else in game to mess up. Simply update the DB using a SQL command to set every homunculus in current existence to 910 intimacy. This won't hurt anything, and would be much much easier than designing a NPC > creating an extra DB entry for the flag, reading the DB for the flag > going to set the homunculus intimacy. 

 

Oda sick blah blah blah - Don't have a single point of failure in your customer communication chain, everyone down to the damn janitor of the building should know whats going on for the week and can post on the forums to make sure screwups like this don't happen. That way if the GMs are running around with their hair / servers on fire there can still be communication as to what is happening. 

 

Server DB going brain dead and rollbacks - The service is available 24/7, there should be someone there 24/7 that monitors both internal and user facing systems... this includes forums. A simple check every 15-30 minutes of the forums could have alerted the ( should be on call in case of emergency ) people that needed to know hours earlier. 

 

 

I could go on an on, but just review business 101 and you see Gravity making every mistake they warn against. It's almost like they intentionally go against best practices, so it is no surprise that their users are upset. The only surprise is that they have any paying users left at all.

I know I for one don't plan on paying for VIP anymore ( and I had been a subscriber since iRO was released ), at least not until their business practices improve and I can feel like they actually deserve it. Hell, as much as we used to complain back in the day as well, the servers pretty much ran smoothly; compared to the last few years the servers were golden in the times when the GMs/CMs never talked to us. 

 

Then go apply and do it better by all means, send resume to careers@warpportal.com

Edited by Inubashiri, 01 November 2014 - 07:14 AM.

[Joaco]

Hmmm. I'm getting my ashes taken when I bwing or die.. Is that working as intended? I thought it was only if you dc..

[Myzery]

It's pretty sad how much the CMs and GMs put into making everyone happy.

They literally had the servers explode and worked very hard to remedy this.

God forbid they forget to put something into the patch notes. ET was the way that you've experienced it over the past few months/years because they wanted to make your quality of life easier.

Blame the people who exploit, not the community team. This is just sad.

Edited by Myzery, 01 November 2014 - 10:03 AM.

[Kadelia]

I am glad to see the system was reverted. It annoyed me when they iro customized this to begin with, since I don't like iro customzations that mess with game mechanics. I didn't make much fuss about it because it wasn't that bad of a change and helped with people who got d/ced and made tedious et trips less tedious.

Then I found out about the exploiters. People recreating the instance and re-using their placement flag to re-enter in the new instance at the high floor, effectively farming level 80, 90, or 100 bosses over and over. A guild I had joined for leveling/instances was farming it nightly. I refused to participate in it, since I abhor exploits and farming high end items.

I am mostly pissed they let this exploit go on for as long as it did. It has been in for a long time.

Edited by Jaye, 01 November 2014 - 08:12 AM.

[Kadelia]

It's pretty sad how much the CMs and GMs put into making everyone happy.
That literally had the servers explode and worked very hard to remedy this.
God forbid they forget to put something into the patch notes. ET was the way that you've experienced it over the past few months/years because they wanted to make your quality of life easier.
Blame the people who exploit, not the community team. This is just sad.

This is all very true and well said.

[Facekiller]

with a 12 hour maint youd think they would have had time to slip in a mention about ET at some point... or even check the maint thread OP to see if everything was correct... Oda went home sick so nobody bothered to check if everything was included in the notes? are we down to only one CM now? sure the team works hard but things like this are the reason people lack faith in them... and to all those people who are saying "it was a iro customization and shouldnt be that way" lets remove GTB cards, KBC,  Gramps, Bounty Boards, and all the other little customizations... see how much fun the game becomes for you...

[MikaKuchiki]

TI make everyone level up easily and make another maps empty. I don't really like TI. But yeah, sadly, i level up and make zeny because of TI.

 

Btw i'm just going back from ET and nothing bad happened. We can ET like usual, even if the rule changed. The problem just....we must wait others when they got teleport back to Alberta after room 100.

 

One rule that should changed is just about ashes of darkness. If people dc/back more than 3 times, can't enter again. If it going like this...how about people with bad internet connection?

Edited by MikaKuchiki, 01 November 2014 - 08:29 AM.