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Damage Output Reduced?


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#1 mongetet

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 11:16 PM

Is it just me or we do less damage now? I tried testing it with my bow scout's impact arrow and damage from my axe champ. I have a friend who practices me a lot and I was surprise my damage got reduced like 300-600 damage even though we were wearing the same gears before.

 

I also noticed that xbow scouts are like knights now because axe crits cant even damage it. Its just my observation though. Can someone look into this? Or maybe because they just have damage reduction gem in their shields. When will 2 handed weapons have 2 slot gems anyway?


Edited by mongetet, 07 November 2014 - 12:04 AM.

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#2 NoobMeister

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 11:51 PM

There has been a few people that have noticed this as well.


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#3 mongetet

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 12:07 AM

There has been a few people that have noticed this as well.

 

Yea i thought so, it became more apparent to me because there was this xbow scout that i always practice with. Before i can kill him with my crits from axe and now when i pvp him, my berserk is gone and still cant kill him lol. We are wearing the same gear we had like a week ago maybe. Reduced damage output + block rates, def of xbow scouts= knights. And I saw knights became even more monsters in war. A lot of people attacking and cant take it down even in 30 seconds... Just my observation


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#4 bl0b

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 12:12 AM

Yes, damage output was reduced, I noticed this after last weeks patch when a friend and I tested our impact arrow damage, I was doing significantly way less damage then I was before the patch, roughly around 1k less. As a bow scout I feel this is an issue since our only reliable high damage skill was nerfed. Yes, all damage output from all classes is lower now which means everyone takes less damage, but like Mongtet said, some classes benefit more then other classes. And I want my impact arrow damage back.  


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#5 mongetet

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 12:17 AM

Yes, damage output was reduced, I noticed this after last weeks patch when a friend and I tested our impact arrow damage, I was doing significantly way less damage then I was before the patch, roughly around 1k less. As a bow scout I feel this is an issue since our only reliable high damage skill was nerfed. Yes, all damage output from all classes is lower now which means everyone takes less damage, but like Mongtet said, some classes benefit more then other classes. And I want my impact arrow damage back.  

 

Oh so I am not alone. They didnt put this in the patch updates.. Yes I understand you. Bow scouts are known for their lethal damage. cloak then appear stun and impact. Reducing the damage makes their roles a little less effective. They are not that fearsome anymore.  And its true that other classes get the most benefit from this. Especially high def like xbow scouts/ knights. Geez i cant even damage an xbow scout because of this, what more can i do for a knight as an axe champ

 

Maybe a solution is put another gem slot in 2h weapons like bows axes staff gun etc. I know they intend to do this in the first place, just not sure when

 

Well right now def classes are king XD


Edited by mongetet, 07 November 2014 - 12:19 AM.

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#6 lolmetimbers89

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 12:38 AM

Stealth nerf again?

 

lol


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#7 mongetet

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 12:41 AM

Stealth nerf again?

 

lol

 

What?


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#8 zonyzony

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 12:56 AM

Is it just me or we do less damage now? I tried testing it with my bow scout's impact arrow and damage from my axe champ. I have a friend who practices me a lot and I was surprise my damage got reduced like 300-600 damage even though we were wearing the same gears before.

 

I also noticed that xbow scouts are like knights now because axe crits cant even damage it. Its just my observation though. Can someone look into this? Or maybe because they just have damage reduction gem in their shields. When will 2 handed weapons have 2 slot gems anyway?

 

The damage now is better at least not easy to die anymore from burst classes which as it should be.

 

Well for the xbowscouts and knights theyre broken in the first place. Their damage reduction skill should be reduced as they are really tanky. The damage is good just fix those high def classes


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#9 bl0b

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 01:03 AM

If burst classes don't have they burst, what use are they?

 


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#10 zonyzony

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 01:09 AM

If burst classes don't have they burst, what use are they?

 

People are complaining before they die too easily because of crits, now gm listened to them and they still whined. No solution to everything. Burst classes are still good. Theyre still doin 3-4k hits but I must agree bow scouts which are already underpowered became much more problematic but as for axes it is better as they are overpowered as -_- thats why many people complained. Bow scouts will definitely get a boost in the future anyway. For now i have a bow scout myself, it is still useful and i still do good damage/ 30/50's citrine. My impact still hits 4k+ on champs. Just fix the classes that became op with this change. The deduction from a knight is crazy as u can keep it on forever and that xbow scout has become tanky so lately
 


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#11 Gojio

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 01:31 AM

Nobody complained about ALL classes being overpowered, there was an issue with champs landing tremendously high damage and berserk turned out to be bugged, and it was fixed.

 

I don't get why damage was reduced again, giving knights clerics and champs even more survivability since they're the ones taking the least damage.

 

And especially, things are happening without notice...this is not the first time and it's happening quite frequently lately. It takes no time to add a freaking note in the patch notes saying "We have reduced your bloody damage to do some bloody testing" but apparently they don't give a -_- about us.


Edited by Gojio, 07 November 2014 - 01:32 AM.

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#12 zonyzony

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 01:37 AM

Nobody complained about ALL classes being overpowered, there was an issue with champs landing tremendously high damage and berserk turned out to be bugged, and it was fixed.

 

I don't get why damage was reduced again, giving knights clerics and champs even more survivability since they're the ones taking the least damage.

 

And especially, things are happening without notice...this is not the first time and it's happening quite frequently lately. It takes no time to add a freaking note in the patch notes saying "We have reduced your bloody damage to do some bloody testing" but apparently they don't give a -_- about us.

 

I didnt know if u really read it. I said people complaining because of crits. coz the damage is high. NOT ALL CLASSES BEING OVERPOWERED. I read it. that there was a thread about crit damage being so high and someone even suggested adding pvp resistance to resolve the issue.
 


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#13 Gojio

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 02:00 AM

I didnt know if u really read it. I said people complaining because of crits. coz the damage is high. NOT ALL CLASSES BEING OVERPOWERED. I read it. that there was a thread about crit damage being so high and someone even suggested adding pvp resistance to resolve the issue.
 

 

I was the one suggesting a crit resistance stat, but the main issue around it was champs 3 shotting everything on berserk. They fixed berserk, champs are fine now.


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#14 zonyzony

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 02:10 AM

I was the one suggesting a crit resistance stat, but the main issue around it was champs 3 shotting everything on berserk. They fixed berserk, champs are fine now.

 

Matt suggested adding pvp resistance and u suggested adding crit resistance so what does it mean- there is an excessive surplus of damage. They fixed champs berserk during that time but there was still a thread about that critical thing saying critical is overpowered on axe even after the fix. Some said crit mechanics should change, crit damage should be lowered etc. In short because of excessive damage. Right now that burst damage had been toned down a bit but like i said it is true that the bow scouts suffer greatly from this which is why i said they will get and should have a boost in the future. As for the damage, in my opinion is better right now. No more dying quickly. Gives you more of a chance to react and that is to say the burst damage is still good and workable anyway. The problem relies on other classes that greatly benefits from this as the devs might have forgotten that if they implemented something like this what effect will it have to the already tank classes such as knights and xbow scouts and i think thats where the change should begin. That is just my opinion though.
 


Edited by zonyzony, 07 November 2014 - 02:18 AM.

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#15 jerremy

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 04:46 AM

An oversight in the combat calculations to how PvP/PvM Defense, Damage Reduction and Defense worked together has been corrected, to where you can no longer have 100% reduction of damage to all monsters. We will continue to monitor the change for any necessary needed balance changes in the near future.

This was a bugfix that solved knights being able to stack PvM defense and damage reduction together into one modifier to get a permanent 100% damage reduction in PvM, regardless of their own defense/blocking (obviously unbalanced as -_- and overpowered).

To fix this, they did a slight alteration to the formula of how damage is calculated, and that's where the problem lies.

 

Before the patch one week ago, things worked like this:

Attackers damage (-defenders physical block/magical block in case of successful block) X damage reduction curve (amount of damage reduction defender has based on his defense/mdef) X (1 - Damage reduction - PvP/PvM modifiers + crit damage modifiers + enhance damage modifier).

 

Now it works like this:

Attackers damage (-defenders physical block/magical block) X damage reduction curve X PvP/PvM modifiers X (1 - damage reduction + crit damage modifier + enhance damage modifier).

 

The importance is in the position of the PvP/PvM multiplier. While earlier it was merely a modifier that altered base damage, due to its new position, it now also has an effect on crit/enhance damage/damage reduction.

Since in PvP mostly people are using an honor set+epic weapon, the PvP multiplier will be 30% defense, which ends up being a 30% reduction to crit/enhance damage compared to before. It also affects damage reduction to some extent so that damage reduction is slightly weaker (mostly felt in PvM), but the only classes really affected by this are knights/crossbow scouts.

 

 

They should have documented this change some more since it was only a small last note at bugfixes, while the change it brings is a lot bigger than that.


Edited by jerremy, 07 November 2014 - 05:00 AM.

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#16 bl0b

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 06:56 AM

Does this mean the one snipe skill that bow scouts have is gonna be nerfed forever?


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#17 Leeny

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 07:27 AM

Yea i definitely noticed my katar that hit other katars around 750, drop to about 500..hm...might as well get rid of this malachite i think seems useless now


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#18 iMatt

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 08:15 AM

Yes, the formula was changed which influenced certain damage sources.


Edited by iMatt, 07 November 2014 - 08:18 AM.

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#19 mongetet

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 08:58 AM

Are they gonna do something about this or it will stay forever this way? So my axe champ is destined to be foods for xbow scout in pvp now?


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#20 jerremy

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 09:03 AM



Are they gonna do something about this or it will stay forever this way? So my axe champ is destined to be foods for xbow scout in pvp now?

 

An oversight in the combat calculations to how PvP/PvM Defense, Damage Reduction and Defense worked together has been corrected, to where you can no longer have 100% reduction of damage to all monsters. We will continue to monitor the change for any necessary needed balance changes in the near future.

 

Underlined text. Not sure if the lowered damage was intended or not, but according to the patch notes the change will be kept track of and if this turns out to be unintentional it will probably be changed. If you really want to know for sure, you should PM either Leonis or Genesis for a more solid answer.


Edited by jerremy, 07 November 2014 - 09:06 AM.

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#21 LexLoyalty

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 09:07 AM

i also noticed the lower demage output.

Explains why a raider vs raider pvp takes 10-25 mins these days. completely pointless and a waste of time.


Edited by LexLoyalty, 07 November 2014 - 09:15 AM.

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#22 iMatt

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 10:07 AM

i also noticed the lower demage output.

Explains why a raider vs raider pvp takes 10-25 mins these days. completely pointless and a waste of time.

 

Agree, I also had a discussion about this with Leonis on wednesday, but maybe if many people point out that the whole pvp damage balance got screwed it might get changed.

 

 

bl0b

Posted Today, 03:56 PM

Does this mean the one snipe skill that bow scouts have is gonna be nerfed forever?

 

Looks like it, even if there are ways to reduce the nerf slightly it is still an issue on bow scouts now.

 

 

mongetet

Posted Today, 05:58 PM

Are they gonna do something about this or it will stay forever this way? So my axe champ is destined to be foods for xbow scout in pvp now?

 

Well, first of all crossbow scouts are, just like knights, classes that are designed to defeat Champions (at least better than other classes). You still have Bow scouts or Raiders that you can pewpew away on Axe. =)

But back to your question: I am sure the developer team became aware of the influence of the slight change, they made. It was mainly intended to fix an issue with Knights in PvM aspects (100% damage reduction through resistances and damage reduction)


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#23 mongetet

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 10:14 AM

Agree, I also had a discussion about this with Leonis on wednesday, but maybe if many people point out that the whole pvp damage balance got screwed it might get changed.

 

 

Looks like it, even if there are ways to reduce the nerf slightly it is still an issue on bow scouts now.

 

 

Well, first of all crossbow scouts are, just like knights, classes that are designed to defeat Champions (at least better than other classes). You still have Bow scouts or Raiders that you can pewpew away on Axe. =)

But back to your question: I am sure the developer team became aware of the influence of the slight change, they made. It was mainly intended to fix an issue with Knights in PvM aspects (100% damage reduction through resistances and damage reduction)

 

Yea but that is right now they are so tanky but before I can kill them. Im an axe with 30 ap sen 20 set and cant kill it. If an axe champ cant kill it what other classes can? I can understand the knights coz they have low ap, but also xbow scout now?


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#24 iMatt

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 10:17 AM

Yea but that is right now they are so tanky but before I can kill them. Im an axe with 30 ap sen 20 set and cant kill it. If an axe champ cant kill it what other classes can? I can understand the knights coz they have low ap, but also xbow scout now?

 

Uhm well reflect hurts now massivly, and well crossbow scouts have a good defense, if you want to kill those kind of classes try to use any kind of pierce defense classes sutch as sword champs. :)


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#25 zonyzony

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 11:16 AM

Uhm well reflect hurts now massivly, and well crossbow scouts have a good defense, if you want to kill those kind of classes try to use any kind of pierce defense classes sutch as sword champs. :)


2h champs is not an option either. Me and my friend recently tested it out with stat buffs. I was on ap and have 3000+k ap. He was wearing def set I think and had def close to 10k or more. We both got all gems and im passives. I cant take down his hp or maybe because he has an additional damage reduction in the shield. So no, 2h champs cant take down xbow scouts. Tried it with my gun borg too and its much more useless. Maybe a mage can take it down but if that scout wears lumi, that will be a problem :P

Yea but that is right now they are so tanky but before I can kill them. Im an axe with 30 ap sen 20 set and cant kill it. If an axe champ cant kill it what other classes can? I can understand the knights coz they have low ap, but also xbow scout now?


Mongetet, what should you do is not to pvp xbow scouts for now or forever I think. With the recent changes they are like close to knights with the ap unless the time they change this formula or rework the xbowscouts or knights dont pvp them

Edited by Zurn, 07 November 2014 - 11:41 AM.

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