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#26 Nereida

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 01:22 PM

I thought if you own a castle/fort you can't have guild housing... I see Collision and Resistance on the list above >.> So basically the game just let these two guilds throws money away without any kind of notification to them? Any plans for refunding/compensating these guilds??? :/


Working as intended :)
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#27 Emilizzard

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 02:57 PM

Yes, I can see that too. I just want to confirm that only those 10 are able to participate in the raffle, and not simply a ranking for the top 10 that spent the most. 

The bottom line says "You have not participated." Earlier I had included another screenshot where I had purchased a ticket for my guild, and it displayed my ticket status. So either the game lost my ticket, or it kicked me from the lottery, but regardless I'm no longer in it and the money is gone.

 

I didn't understand this "Top 10"... Isn't the guild house supposed to be a lottery between all guilds who buy tickets? 
"Top 10" make me think more about an auction, not a lottery

That's what it sounds like to me, too. Either that or a "lottery" between the 10 highest bidders, so a combination lottery/bid system.

 

I'll be posting my personal feedback shortly now that others have had a chance to add theirs and I've had time to think about it, but I still have to write it, so it may take a while.


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#28 faku1810

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 03:42 PM

After reading all the posts i can't help thinking this housing system is crappy, and a waste of our time and zenny.

 

1) not only are we buying tickets for a chance to win a house... but it's like an auction, so we'll have to be constantly wasting zenny. And that will contribute to making a rich guild even richer if they win.

 

2) I'm thinking there are 10 slots in each list, and eventually will have a total of 20 houses. This makes me think that the 10 guilds will eventually be able to get a house if they buy enough tickets. So again, this is a competition to see who can keep spending for the longest time.

 

3) The dungeons being pvp means non-pvp guilds will be left out, more so if they decide to camp and pk like they do in morroc fortress atm. Having such a low drop rate and bosses not worth camping are avoiding this situation for now, but if they fix it, THIS will happen.

 

All in all, i can't like it, not even one bit. It's too much money for a place that will only be to be afk with some guildies, since you can't even invite people from other guilds (by doing party or a raid) and for that, i'd rather set up a place in the world with my guildies. The only thing i'd be missing would be the npcs but whatever, it's still not worth my zenny.


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#29 Emilizzard

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 03:56 PM

When Guild Vault was announced and added, I remember hearing many concerns that the Guild Vault system was what the game would have for a Guild Housing system. At this point, I'd like to say that they weren't exactly wrong, since the Guild Vault is a better system.

 

Problems with Guild Housing

There are many problems with the current system:

  • Probably the biggest problem is that it is a selective lottery. Since only the 10 guilds who buy the most tickets are eligible to win the lottery, it will provide large and/or rich guilds the opportunity to buy out the entire list, leaving small guilds with no option to obtain a House. More on this later.
  • The second biggest problem is the fact that the biggest perk of having a house, the Greedy Mine PvP dungeon (with poor drop rates), has shared access with those who win the Guild Vault through WoE. With this, even if a small guild does manage to win a house, they will not be able to take advantage of it easily, as they will either be killed by other players or by the bosses, depending on character levels.
  • Returning to the first point: having 10% of money put into lottery being given to the winning guild isn't fair to those who buy what they can, and hope that they might get it. After all, in all really lotteries, you really only need 1 ticket to win. The real lottery is more fair because those who purchased only a small amount of ticket are not removed from the overall pool. If the lottery system has to be kept, then extend it to include everybody who entered, and the 10% return will no longer be completely unfair. After all, if a small guild that bought 1 ticket did win, and got the 10%, it would balance the money out a little bit.
  • As some of you may know, I do run my own guild. It's fairly small, and most players are casual, but we generally have a good time. I'd love the ability to allow my guild members the opportunity to explore the new content and to feel somewhat important by having an area for us. I was really looking forward to housing.
  • I'd guess that most players are extremely upset by this system, considering the feedback in this thread and others, as well as what I have seen in game. At best, players are indifferent. I have not heard anybody say anything they liked about this system, and I don't honestly expect to.
  • The game really benefits PvP players, which isn't really surprising, since most MMOs do. The problem is that this new content has been effectively taken away from non-PvP players before they even get it. Why is this a bad thing? Not all of the players who pay are PvP. Some people buy all the mounts and costumes they can, because that's how they enjoy playing. Others spend money on items for their gear because they like how it feels to have good items or a weapon that glows. Do all of them pay directly? No, but they trade with others who do, so therefore they pay indirectly.

 

Benefits of Guild Vault

The biggest benefit of the Guild Vault is that it can be earned, even though it's really only an option to the biggest, strongest guilds. It contains the boss monster which can be killed for decent loot, and now contains access to a dungeon that is, honestly, something that the owners of a Guild Vault would be interested in if it weren't for the poor drop rates; it is not something that all guilds would be interested in.

 

 

What it Could Be

Guild Housing could, and should, be so much more. While I am aware that this kind of feedback has already been given and more or less ignored, I would like to take the opportunity to add my opinion. At the very least, it should be a place for members of any eligible guild to:

  • Spend time together away from other areas
  • Utilize various services offered in the House

I stated in an earlier post that a guild must be Level 20 to purchase a lottery ticket; I have no problem with a level requirement for purchasing a guild house. In fact, I support that, because it means that a player cannot just start a new guild and have a house to themselves, they would have to earn it. Here is how I visualize true Guild Housing:

  • A guild meets a certain level requirement to purchase a Guild House. This should be about the same level as storage; perhaps before storage (there's a few dead levels where points are gained but there's no place to put them).
  • The guild raises enough zeny from their members to meet the purchase price for the house type they wish. Perhaps there is only one type of house, and the amount is the same for all houses.
  • Multiple house types: This can either be size of house (small, medium, mansion, etc) or the location. For example, there could be houses in each of the 3 cities, to be themed as such, and the price for later cities would be higher since the game has progressed that way. The exit portal of this guild's house would be in the city it is themed as. Since many guilds have favorite cities, this would allow them to pick the city they already reside in.
  • Periodically (weekly, bi-weekly, monthly), the guild is required to pay a "rent" or "mortgage" fee to keep their house. This would prevent dead guilds from continuing to own a house.
  • The Guild House would contain a number of basic NPCs, perhaps purchased with zeny, such as the ones in the current housing system, except scrap the Master Level NPC. This would provide services to guilds who can't afford:
  • Cash Shop Items! (Yes, I'm suggesting Cash Shop Items :v deal with it) The Kafra Item Shop may contain certain additional items to be added to a guild's house (I've listed some examples below). Like other items from Kafra Item Shop, they would be tradeable to other players, which would allow those who can't spend money to also have nice things. You may be wondering how some of these items would be viable as a Premium item, but guilds die and are created fairly often, and once the content is created it doesn't have to be created again like a physical product would.
    • Long-Distance Flight Kafra (or equivalent portal): would have the exact same functionality as the regular Long-Distance Flight Kafra, including the tiny fee (unless portal is used).
    • Master Level NPC: In my opinion, it's not really important to have an extra Master Level merchant, since there's one right near all of the Master Level areas, so it would be more of a luxury item.
    • Extra Storage: Think of it like a lockers in a school. The one(s) in charge add it, and it's there for all members to use as personal storage. If a player leaves or is banished from the guild, the items in the locker would be mailed to the character; if they do not have enough space in their normal storage or bags, it will be up to them to make space. This would also encourage players to at least check on their characters once in a while, to ensure that their items are not about to be deleted by the mail system.
    • Decoration Items: Offer various decorative items that are themed along with the game (I would want a Poring in my house). New ones can be released periodically, much like mounts and costumes, which will keep interest. This would be the item of constant interest, while the previous two would be more like 1-time purchases.
  • Do not give it a dungeon! This is completely unnecessary, and it seems the interest isn't there anyways.

In the end, players are being chased away because they feel they are being ridiculed by not being allowed access to new content. The Dark Whisper update was available to everybody, but the grind is really hard on people who can't play often; not only that, but the sudden jump from easy grind to hard grind is a gap that many aren't even attempting. True guild housing would offer something for existing players of all types to enjoy and spend money on. New players would be able to look forward to the day when they, too, can purchase a guild house of their very own.

 

My head hurts from typing all this. I hope I didn't forget anything >.<;

 

EDIT: Crossed off stuff to do with the lottery system, since it seems to work more like a regular lottery now.


Edited by Emilizzard, 12 November 2014 - 08:46 PM.

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#30 Maxscha

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 07:03 PM

I didn't understand this "Top 10"... Isn't the guild house supposed to be a lottery between all guilds who buy tickets? 
"Top 10" make me think more about an auction, not a lottery

 

In an Auction, you at least spend nothing if you were outbid. Even in RO2 AH.

This isn't an Auction or a Lottery; It's a farce and something of a scam. :p_ang:


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#31 donchan

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 09:50 PM

it wasn't in the main patch notes, we all knew it when the server was online for like 30-40 mins already and everyone throw zenny to it lol
so yeah...GG


So if you guys win what happens? You guys just lose money? WTF... GG

Since it wasn't in patch notes hopefully they refund you guys back haha. At least you guys can access Greedy Dungeon... although drops are a joke right now.
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#32 SETSUNAf6w

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 10:23 PM

Yeah Guild Vault owners that bought tickets should be refunded I sure hope it will.

 

A system that prevents Vault owners from buying ticket would be nice too to avoid that mistake again...


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#33 VuoriDevine

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 10:45 PM

So if you guys win what happens? You guys just lose money? WTF... GG

Since it wasn't in patch notes hopefully they refund you guys back haha. At least you guys can access Greedy Dungeon... although drops are a joke right now.

A JOKE!?!!?!?!?! WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!
I definitelly needed that 1 cure rune, and the [Piece of rock] use_stone_lenchantcrystal_02.png for my rock collection, idk what you're talking about when you say "drops are a joke".  :p_swt:

And for the money.... well, i think we all know where this is going to end lol 


Edited by VuoriDevine, 11 November 2014 - 10:45 PM.

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#34 Shinyusuke

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 11:39 PM

Do you want changes? Don't buy tickets and ignore the guild Houses. There is nothing worst fir a developers team than a playerbase ignoring the latest update. And If they don't care we have to care even less!
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#35 samaura

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 12:52 AM

Well at least this drops... Its a personal drop and I've only seen one drop so far.

 

jkf3iFl.jpg


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#36 donchan

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 08:25 AM

A JOKE!?!!?!?!?! WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!
I definitelly needed that 1 cure rune, and the [Piece of rock] use_stone_lenchantcrystal_02.png for my rock collection, idk what you're talking about when you say "drops are a joke". :p_swt:

And for the money.... well, i think we all know where this is going to end lol

I guess you're right, it's not too bad. I did get more dick pipes to add to my 349 I got from Himmelmez's Chamber in the last couple months. I am most definitely grateful for that.


Edited by donchan, 12 November 2014 - 09:33 AM.

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#37 Seigneur4

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:38 PM

I thought that there will be 4 guilds announced on the first day of the guild housing 

 

 

 

Winners are selected on the 1st and 15th of each month. Winning guilds will retain the house for 28 days.

 


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#38 ZeroTigress

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:46 PM

I'm more curious about why it's 28 days and not a full month.
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#39 Emilizzard

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 08:23 PM

I thought that there will be 4 guilds announced on the first day of the guild housing 

 

There's a total of 4 houses available, but they're being put on different schedules. Currently, there is 1 Morroc and 1 Prontera house in the "lottery" and will be announced on the 15th according to the information we have. After those are announced, the other two (1 Morroc and 1 Prontera) will be put up for "lottery" which will be drawn on the 1st. I hope that answers your question. 

 

I'm more curious about why it's 28 days and not a full month.

 

Yeah, that doesn't make much sense to me either. It would make sense if the drawings were on, say, the 1st and 3rd Mondays of the month, since 28 days = 4 weeks. However, it seems they'll be announced on the 1st and the 15th, which allows for a questionable number of days, since not every month is 30 days. For example, the houses drawn on December 1st will be occupied for 28 days, which brings us to December 28th, except that December has 31 days. So those houses will be... empty for those extra 3 days? Then the owners of the houses on the other cycle and owners of vaults would have an even bigger advantage in Greedy Mine. If they really wanted to draw on the 1st and the 15th, it would make more sense to have the term last until that date came up again, but then each term would be a varying number of days. However, giving certain people a longer amount of time, even if it is random people, would also be unfair and unbalanced.

 

If this system absolutely has to remain in place, it would be better to change house owners on a set day of the week, and do a drawing every other week.


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#40 Arbalist

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 08:25 PM

Guild appeared back on the list again, seems like it's not just top 10 paying guilds only in the raffle. Slight relief I suppose.


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#41 Emilizzard

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 08:31 PM

Guild appeared back on the list again, seems like it's not just top 10 paying guilds only in the raffle. Slight relief I suppose.

 

Well that'd be cool. When you weren't on the list, did it tell you you weren't participating, or did it tell you how many tickets you had? It's really the "You are not participating" text I'd be concerned about...


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#42 Arbalist

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 08:34 PM

The other day when there were only 5 people, it told me my rank and tickets. Later that day when I was knocked off, it said "You are not a participant" and didn't show my tickets even when I bought new tickets. Today, it tells me my rank and ticket #'s including the test ones I bought to see if I could get back on the list previously.


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#43 Emilizzard

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 08:44 PM

Hmmm *checks*

...

...

...

Yup, mine shows up as well. Ninja fix perhaps?


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#44 Shinyusuke

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 11:49 PM

It's 28 days because this game is based on weekly updates not monthly ones so everything is based on multiple of 7.
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#45 chronojxf007

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 12:54 AM

It's quiet disappointing on the Guild House system. Here are my suggestions:
- Make Guild Housing available for 10,000z per month
- Guild Requirements" Guild lvl 20 + Guild Storage lvl. 5
- Guild Housing should be a guild-exclusive area
- Greedy Mines should be a dungeon-based area

Players of RO2 dealt alot of situations that need "taking chances". Why not make Guild Housing and Greedy Mine available to everyone?


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#46 Seigneur4

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 02:19 AM

110addh.jpg
Well this is kindly interesting..
I hope little amount will be deducted to the amount :pif:


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#47 monimonih

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 03:13 AM

Guild appeared back on the list again, seems like it's not just top 10 paying guilds only in the raffle. Slight relief I suppose.

I still can't open that window.

If i click on "current state" or "lottery list" nothing happens.


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#48 faku1810

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 08:48 AM

110addh.jpg
Well this is kindly interesting..
I hope little amount will be deducted to the amount :pif:

 

The tax would be of a 90%, since the winner guild gets only a 10% of the total zenny used to buy tickets.


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#49 Emilizzard

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 10:35 AM

110addh.jpg
Well this is kindly interesting..
I hope little amount will be deducted to the amount :pif:


The first point caught my attention, as I have entries in both Prontera and Morroc....
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#50 ZeroTigress

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 11:51 AM

110addh.jpg
Well this is kindly interesting..
I hope little amount will be deducted to the amount :pif:


I'd rather none go the winning guild at all. I'm paying to get my own guild a house, not give my money away to another guild.
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