143 replies to this topic

[BloodyHalo]

I know this will generate much hate and trolls and so on, but I just have to ask.

 

Alteris, Helium, or God, is there a way to give us turan melee a fighting chance?

 

I feel like my near 40k hp and full resists full carus gear and not a damn thing rare in my set except for resistance necklace, should not allow me to be killed off in under 5 seconds while eles and defis bounce around getting the last hit kills on anything and everything.  I know everyone is nerfed at some point but when you up everyone's hp and def and don't do anything for our dmg (and mine is pretty damn high for a commie) it makes killing even the softest of people like chopping down a tree.  

 

That mixed with how fast casters can kill makes it kind of depressing when we've finally gotten someone to the red then a random caster comes by to last hit that kill.  And just like in COD assists just don't give the same kinda pleasure that a kill does ...and if I'm having to give it my all for kills then I know that commies or other melee with 20kish hp with not full resists and much less dmg are having absolutely no fun at all.  When they have to be face to face with someone to kill them with only one non-stunning rush, and when half those skills miss, it's going to be fairly hard for them/us to get a kill.

 

"But but yall have beamslash, it's ranged!"  Well, technically so is a flying banana.  And oddly just as effective.

 

"But but yall have op Face strike!"  Hell yah we do!  Yes it absolutely helps out in duels (when it hits),  but it only affects one person, and other classes have aoe silence so yeah nope.

 

"But but BUT yall have op addy mind!!!!"  This used to be semi - special till zerks came along and showed us how useless we were cuz they have more dmg, more hp, REFLECT, addy mind (with even the same symbol), and pretty nice def.  Also, addy don't matter if you're dead before you make it 5 feet.  Also, any sin can soccer kick that mess right out the window fairly easily.

 

"But but yall have aoe too!"    <---- this is all the defilers, tempests, bartuk class  cuddled together laughing at your comment.  And if you argue that zerks don't have aoe and easily do just find see above to understand why it don't matter.

 

 

"Why not just play another class or make a new char?"  Because despite its flaws I love the concept of the commander class.  I love rushing into a crowd of foes and moonlighting some poor Biznitch and seeing his body parts flying every which way.  I live for 1-hit shield smacking some nab like I'm swatting some godforsaken fly.  I LOVE pissing off rads and defilers first.  Why???  CUZ I CAN.  

I love working to get my 20+ or 30+ kills in my TB matches and rocking foc!  (Sorry, got a little bit excited there)

 

I just want it to be simpler.

 

 

And if that's not a fair request, then too Goddamn bad.  And this is Goddamn America.  AND if you don't like it, you can suck my big black requiem rocket.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New year all!

 

 

 

 

Ps.  FOC matchmaking.  I feel like the bartuk/krux vs everybody else is a bit racist .  But it's just a tired person's "end of the year" rantings ^^.

 

 

Edited by BloodyHalo, 29 December 2014 - 11:19 PM.

[explicid17]

Melee classes need a easier way to get CAD/SCAD xeons to make enchants like a daily quest. The way its set up now is only AoE classes that farm 24/7 can get enough to make some enchants and they already have loads of HP, def, and dmg 

[exilehunter]

dont charge in head first?

[BloodyHalo]

dont charge in head first?

Damn, ill try ass first next time.

[exilehunter]

i find commies die easily because they literally charge into the centre of everything. There they attempt to kill the 1st thing they see, only to get mobbed on all sides by other melee and casters. Dangerous players are ones you cant see. Melee players (except sins) are typically in plain sight, in the middle of attention, trying to kill whatever is baited to them ie- I'm a squishy defiler! Look at me! I'm prancing on my pretty mount! You better kill me first or else i'll use Trap Of Stiffness! (i have 2 sins nearby and a wl coming, the mages are hiding behind the pillars)

 

 

truth be told, as mages can attack without being targeted by melee or many mages skills, they get that advantage to steal kills (yes, many of my kills are those). Melee seem to have compensation through instant cast skills and dashes.

[BloodyHalo]

Most (if not all) casters pew pew are insta cast and ele's casts rape most people.  Melee classes do have pretty good dashes, though commies dash is not one of them (No stun = rush to get death faster.  Long CD unless you waste useful DNA for it).  I agree most commies I watch do rush forward pretending to be much less effective versions of protectors.  To which I say yes they deserve to splode very quickly. 

 

HOWEVER in their defense when they are 0 - 9 and spells are going every which way, i'm guessing a squishy looking defiler or rad with no costume on (Though most of them are a LOT less squishy than the olden days) looks very appetizing.  

But any melee person who wastes time trying to kill a mount AND its owner deserves death.  No one person has time for that shiz if the other team is nearby.

Edited by BloodyHalo, 28 December 2014 - 07:11 PM.

[exilehunter]

one of the problems is that there's the uncommon breed of mages which switch to def/eva builds when they get latched onto by a melee. I know there are defilers and domis who use +30 bloody doll when they get stunned. and if they have an eva build (40k+ eva), then you basically cant kill them with AA. either they recover from stun and manage to attack/stun you back or they manage to run back to their party. 

 

you should see how many sins and srs i flush out with a mount only to tag them back with rake nail's dps effect (no more stealthing for them).

[BloodyHalo]

That is part of what I was saying. The devs have put in more and more hp/def/eva tools to where everyone is basically a tank. But when tanks have less dmg thab the casters then this becomes lopsided.
If mystics can tank and then there is little need for real tanks besides the occasional taunt.

Yes there are some not so bright people on battlefields. My current favorite is my dash out, tag a few people...then when they give chase, my team's defi's Terms of Service says hi. Scary how often this works. I even told a team we were doing it and they STILL got trapped.

Edited by BloodyHalo, 28 December 2014 - 07:39 PM.

[exilehunter]

(Trap of Stiffness was censored to Ragnarok Online 2 and now changed to Terms of Service...)

 

the whole hp/def thing is a gear and mall issue that existed ever since the introduction of ET. that isnt something that will get fixed in my opinion (we've said it for most of the lifespan of this game). I have no ideas how they can make new gear better than existing gear at the same time as balancing melee and mage stats to be more inline with their traditional roles. +30 gear skews everything by letting anyone be tank, including a healer.

 

Tanks and Taunt can be integrated into raids IF they manage to create a raid that isnt a case of spam attacks and heals, or by altering the way aggression is calculated to not just target the highest damage dealer, thus making taunt a priority.

 

As for fun strategies in PvP - as a defi, i typically deal with multiple groups of enemies at once - fear the 1 person who's trying to sneak in, Terms of Service another + aoe them while some party members hack them down, chase 1 more person with pew pews and try to bind them. Too bad my gear is still pretty much what you would find on a 'good' player in 2012...

[BloodyHalo]

Yes before e.t. things were not balanced. But there was a big difference in hp/def from casters and melee. I never had a problem in S1 killing a mage, even the hardest hitting and best ones died pretty fast if I got close, but now it takes so long to kill one you're lucky to get a kill before you're swamped.

This goes for zerkers too. Ive seen some great zerks spend way too much time trying to cut down a single sin or defi who wasn't necessarily even that op.

Edited by BloodyHalo, 28 December 2014 - 08:24 PM.

[BloodyHalo]

Oh and also if we are making zerks able to use all these weapons can we at least get skills that benefit a 2h weapon?  I admit the dual swords in this game are not Turan looking friendly but we are kind of limited at the moment.  Every commie looks the same...sword shield that't either a hell iron or trinity.

[Sandyman]

don`t underestimate the Bananas...

 

Spoiler

 

asking for balance atm. won`t help much, i guess we all have to wait until the Class Balance is done 

 

can`t tell you if its worth to wait.

 

The Turan Race focus pretty much on Defense and Heals, so asking for DPS looks to me vainly.

 

Mby. you can expect a Self Heal or something Supportive.

 

anyway best is to wait till Turan "balance" is done.

 

feel free to make some Suggestion at the Turan Forum...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Apollonia93]

Long post incoming.
Ok, coming from a player that has a defiler and commie and sin, and well everything, my prot right now at 41k hp cap resist all cap defense cap block heals at 4.3k in a 15v15 match if I don't play as a support and rush in to distract, I get wiped out in 10 seconds from aoes. Ujc to commie same result and kill maybe 1 person if he is squishy. So from commie perspective there is a definite imbalance for mass pvp. First if there are 2 or 3 mystics who are smart and use totems, will not kill anything at all. The solution is hard. How to balance aoe toons made for mass pve pvp to a toon like commander which is meant to be able to get in and wreck instead of just die.
Well first I think mystic totems need to be fixed. Too op. How to fix them, first stop them from double ticking. Second stop the heals from multiple totems overlapping. Pvp application only.
Next defense buffs. Only 1 defense buff can be active at anytime. In pvp defense buffs work at 50%
Next suggestion. For each enemy withing 20m range, get a temporary passive buff increasing resist, defense, hp, damage : 2% per enemy.
Now playing as a defiler that current has 3.6k defense, if I see a commie and no friends nearby, I know I'm -_-. Absolutely no chance to fight back. Same with all casters in 1v1 vs commie. Maybe allow lith to be cast out of hush. Give other casters 1 skill that can help them combat commies. Sins, blinding needs to be massively reduced on duration. I've had the same sin die 3 times in a row vs me while still being slowed from the first time. A bit insane.
Anyways, bored at work, wrote a wall of bull-_-.
Also hi war, thanks for not hushing me lol.

[sleepyTown]

decrease capped on both defense and resist then we see easy kills , put cap on scad and cad too bcoz they only matters now..why not merge scc and pcc into single one...

[Apollonia93]

decrease capped on both defense and resist then we see easy kills , put cap on scad and cad too bcoz they only matters now..why not merge scc and pcc into single one...

decreasing cap resist and defense is also a problem, the commie will now rush into multiple aoes with less than 80 resist and instant die.
merging scc and pcc is a huge dump on old players. This is just bad. Cap on scad and cad also dump on players who have spent the last 3 years focusing on it

[sleepyTown]

Decreasing cap on resist and def will go along with capping scad and cad. No matter how high your physical and magic attack it doesnt matter because scad and cad only matters, and if you problemm ib raiding with less resist and defense then apply this only in battlefield.and most of all, this problem persist because there are imbalance in classes entering battlefield. Every character is created to counter each other. Now you see more zerks, elem, and defis. warlord is becoming instinct.very few ranger and venger and almost none in rad..and because of increase in heal in almost everyone except rad, it basically killed rad in game..this further put the game inbalance..the difference between sin and sr also put sr into not viable option only those diehard sr plays it..

[sleepyTown]

And because of scad and cad you need an op prot to keep the aggro. And due to high prot heal with op mystic who needs rad in raid, without rad enough rad in battlefield not enough to counter those op casters, then melee will suffer the most.and and to commies out there you have been replaced by zerks, they basically merge commi and prot to become zerk.

Edited by sleepyTown, 29 December 2014 - 03:44 PM.

[Sandyman]

you Guys don`t trust enough into the Dev Team.

 

you nearly sound like they willing to sacrifice the last free Players ?! - no i won`t believe that!11

 

who would profit from such a System?!111

 

You Guys surely don`t want to go back to the 100-200 DMG Hits from S1 or?!

 

where Hundreds of N00bs floating all BF and Maps...

 

this is supposed to be a Server for the Elite!

 

 

 

 

 

[sleepyTown]

Well sandy s1 and s2 is the best moment in this game where making a +10 gear is a dangerous thing to do.

[sleepyTown]

Or why just put more cap on 1 resist different for every class just like pb, so a certain class cannot maximize all the resist does putting a reasonable limitation.

[War87]

All sounds pretty and -_- but all that has been said here means less $$ for warpportal...

So you get a NO implied answer...

Enough reality, back to daydreaming:
 

Yet all QQing from each class that's broken now, comes from +30 people/cap resistances..

People complain about Commander's AM yet they forget AM does not make ya invincible...

Let's recall how many times have you 2 hit'd a Commy on AM ? Except for names like Sayuz FloorMatt and WarMachine...

 

You won't see a +10 Mystic soloing Juggers...(ofc 25 dna + 5 from quest)

 

 

What have broken the game is the reinforcing system... Which reduces player population into 2 classes:

 

1º People that pay and win.

2º People that spend every freaking day farming, collecting -_- sweating like cotton labormen. To finally get a +30 item...

 

Congratulations Mr #2 you are no match for Mr #1 yet cuz he made full set in one event, prolly two...

Come back 6 months later when you can finally get a full set, but you bet Mr #1 will have the brand new set of the moment +30 already...

 

3º People that play casually, get to farm on free time but will not/cannot spend x8 hours logged farming the same place over and over again...

These, well they are not important. They cant pvp

E.g I get to play during weekends and sometimes during vacations... My character is 87 at the moment... It's HP barely reaches 13k with 8% stats buff HP buff and guild buff...

Dafuq is it geared like? you wonder..

72 set +13 / +11 some parts here there.
Titan RH Weapon +15 / RH shield +15

Reinforced Jewery +20
Ornament: Something rare +13 dont expect too much from it.

Imagine how lovely it is to make Daily Quest 85 <3 Just a walk in the park....(2k hits from snowballs)

Playing this game in these conditions is like " Hey guys I just bought a PS-1 ..." *everyone goes like* Em dude...we got Ps4 already...

 

[BloodyHalo]

 

My character is 87 at the moment... It's HP barely reaches 13k with 8% stats buff HP buff and guild buff...
 

 

 

Don't worry, with my resist set I have around 33k and it doesn't make much difference.  And with a wife + kid on the way I don't get much time anymore either to worry about most of the imbalancing going on.

But lately I just had to get some of this nonsense off my chest.

 

 

For newer commies...

 

On a different note what i can advise to the other commies is to be support for now and spam facestrike on heavyhitters and rads, because even most of the heavily geared commies do not kill that much, and if you rush forward (like somebody else said here) all that's going to do is make you 0-10.  And you'll look like a dumbass, no matter how brave your intentions were.  Which isn't really all that bad considering your situation but your team will not like it.  

 

Had someone complain the other day that I was going for him because he was not +30.  

Hell yes.  

I'm not ashamed to say it.  If I hit people for 3-4k who have decent def and it STILL takes a while to kill people, then why the hell would I go for someone I know I won't have time for (And this is not assuming anyone has healed this character)?

When Im going 1 vs 5 (which is the usual) and I know you're the weakest link I'm going to take you out.   

There is no sense trying to fight a Smiley like character(if reflect is active)  1 vs 4, 5 or, 6 when you know you're not going to have time to kill it.

 

So if you see me coming and you feel a bit worried, run the hell back. 

 

...

 

 

If I am in a team setting I ALWAYS go for the rad first and if not him then the defilers second because they can take out 5 people in one aoe.  After I have stopped one of them I usually look to see if they can be killed quickly and if not I jump to someone who can before attempting to retreat and heal.  Make sure my rad is ok and then repeat the process after making sure the other teams hardest hitting mages are not taking out squads of my team out at once.  I rarely engage berzerkers because not only is it a waste of time since the update but I actually do MUCH more damage to myself than they do to me.  So unless someone on my side is getting attacked I usually just ignore them until reflect wears off.

 

Lastly, when I fight 1 vs 3 (or more) I try to silence the annoying person, stun the second, and then aoe the strongest so that the other two die or are almost dead before I deal with the +30...works pretty well and it always sends people scattering, which gives me a chance for retreat or picking off those who are about to die.  And if i don't get away...hey, dying's fun.

 

 

 

Sorry for overly large pic, I definitely could have shaved it down some.  But now you get to see that I likes Diablo and Blade and Soul! (And yes the other team did not do so great but hey we got more kills than a Defiler ! )

 

^ shows it does work (my average is not always above 30 but it is not at all unusual and this is not the best match either((did not have td buffs at the time))).  I can't promise you you'll kill a lot but it does work, and though your team will never thank you for it, or see the endless face stuns you put on the enemy, you can delight in the fact that the enemy knows just how aggravating you were...  This all should probably be in the Turan section but oh wells I get to be lazy.  By the by, I did not see DarkAge and Fumanxu much that match but if I had you can bet I would have taken the squishy bastards out every chance I got after I completed my usual stunning missions. 

Thanks for responding to my rantings I have to get it all out before new years.  And Apoll I only facetrike the people I love like Fosferi so it's a comin

 

Also, I hate elves.  They tend to stay away from me, but goddammit if I don't have 30 kills stolen from me by them every match.

Edited by BloodyHalo, 02 January 2015 - 12:50 AM.

[sonemere]

u can get more than 13k hp with just +0 glacial khrentium and jewels u know 0 MALL... a 65/75 foc armor set can be just as good as 85 set. compound vendor enchants put 3 in armors. wallah better s-crit.

 

take the time to make enough alt accounts to farm dailies and nightmare crescent quests. u also make 69 prot to farm eximus zeibalts. its pretty dam easy u log 3 prot and kill it if its there. if its not then move along. if u can log in 3 hrs later take 15 min to check again and ur set.

[BloodyHalo]

I had 13k hp with just my s1 brill and some parts foc (not +) without td so yes I'd hope it'd be pretty easy to reach this by now.  It would be even more of a slaughterfest than it is right now.  Sadly I remember when people went O.o wtf you have 10khp and heal for 8k with tics...Ah The good ol overpowerd days.

Edited by BloodyHalo, 29 December 2014 - 11:21 PM.

[Ninnghizhidda]

My friend, I will just have to throw in my cheap 2 cents here...

 

To put it simple and in a few words: it is a lost cause... Now more than ever before.

 

The greatest illusion we all had for years, and the few remaining still have nowadays, remains the same. That somehow ReQQ will become a "balanced" game, even more so now that we have our very own "dedicated dev team" (hooray... ?).

 

For years caster classes had the upper hand, it is very much true, in the majority of situations. It is still the same, even more so, it will be the same tomorrow, if there is going to be a tomorrow in ReQQ.

 

Of course, you will always, but absolutely always, hear the whining of that little caster over there who got "trampled by that so OP Commander (or some other melee)". We all know it can happen, and we all know it is just not what usually happens.

 

This game had always a focus on caster classes, and through the years and for a number of reasons we all very well know, have made them even stronger. And when I say stronger, I mean they can ultimately become stronger. People, pretty please stop being jerks, and for once compare "equal" for ""equal", and not some half-arsed under-geared  under-skilled whatnot Caster against some "uber" perfectly geared and (possibly) perfectly skilled Melee character.

 

How about trying to compare a caster with well over 30k HPs, maxed out resistances and probably maxed out defense too, sporting massive nuking capacity with massive crit % and additional crit damage, to a melee character with "similar" capabilities. Except, they are not similar capabilities.

 

I have talked about this so many times in the past, it has become very old and boring news. Still, it doesn't matter. Because "logic" has departed long ago. Logic that says, that, in general, caster classes have certain characteristics, and melee classes their own. Such as casters generally being physically weaker, with low defense, while capable of high damage output. Or perhaps, higher survivability, but lower damage capacity (like a healing-based characters). On the other hand, melee classes, are generally stronger physically, can take higher damage, and of course, deal a lot of damage at melee. Or they can be sneaky and lethal with surprise attacks, like typical rogues / assassins can be.

 

Conclusion: generally caster classes will die easier, if attacked, and before they finish their own targets off. And they generally have a tough time indeed when cornered by melee classes. These are the facts since time immemorial.

 

I don't know that very many examples where caster classes can have it all-in-one: high physical strength (meaning lots of HPs), high defense capability, high resistance to elemental / magic attacks, ultra high damage output. This, I just call god-mode, and it is exactly what you can have in ReQQ. When you invest enough. And you can never have all of this in a melee character, even when you invest enough, or more than enough. You can not have the same as a caster will have. End of story.

 

So, we just accept the fact and deal with it, like we have done for years. This is how ReQQ has been, from the first day, and more so through the years.

 

Good luck playing a Commander and melee classes, and good luck with all the awesome "changes" that are happening and are due. I just hope ti can be still fun, but I personally have given up. As I said in the beginning, it is a lost cause.