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#151 Scuba

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 09:48 AM

What?


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#152 Eyjafjallajokull

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 09:58 AM

The fact is a small newbie guild cannot practice against an established one without some conditions set up. 

 

Especially as there are no other small guilds for them to play against. They cannot learn if they are getting one shot by < insert here mysterious things an inexperienced guild cannot figure out > or are outnumbered by < whoever >


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#153 Scuba

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 10:08 AM

So how does this solution address that problem?

 

Large established guilds can't be everywhere at once. Small skirmishes can happen in random forts coordinated by small guilds. If a big guild comes and wipes them that's just part of WoE. Are you suggesting that a small guild would practice against an established guild in a 1 hour fake-WoE session? The outcome would be the same as if they had organized a battle in real-WoE. We already have a GvG PvP room with WoE mechanics (?) for small guilds to practice in.


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#154 Eyjafjallajokull

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 10:15 AM

So how does this solution address that problem?
 
Large established guilds can't be everywhere at once. Small skirmishes can happen in random forts coordinated by small guilds.

 

3 vs 1 guild

 
Hatebreed, Valhalla/Immortal dreams, Valkalliance
 
Which of those small guilds should a small guild choose to play against?
 
 

If a big guild comes and wipes them that's just part of WoE. Are you suggesting that a small guild would practice against an established guild in a 1 hour fake-WoE session?

 

In real time, we can teach them what they are doing wrong and trade players to help guide them without it impacting our WoE Agenda.
 
 

The outcome would be the same as if they had organized a battle in real-WoE. We already have a GvG PvP room with WoE mechanics (?) for small guilds to practice in.

Actually, we don't. The gvg rooms haven't been working since they were used for the non-consumable pvp set up. Half the items are disabled and they only functioned during WoE time prior to that. 

 

I assume you knew this already though, since you're an active and knowledgeable player helping teach new guilds how to WoE?


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#155 Scuba

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 10:43 AM

Okay well you have failed to answer my question. How does this solution solve any of those problems? Sounds like maybe Camp should be fixing whatever is broken with the GvG room instead of this unnecessarily complicated pet project.

 

This dialogue is ultimately pointless because Campitor already seems committed to do it anyway regardless of reasoning.

 

Don't be so condescending, its not my job to hand hold new guilds and teach them anything. "Learning to WoE" is a ridiculous notion, it implies that there is a right and wrong way. WoE should be in flux, what works for one guild won't always translate over to another. A guild's size, goals, mechanical skill, class distribution, and creativity vary hugely guild to guild. And it is up to each individual guild to figure out their strengths and weaknesses. After being in a competitive WoE guild for so long the idea of a "roster" to me is soul-sucking. Guilds should encourage people to play what they want instead of what they need to "dominate the server". Losing is a prerequisite to winning if you are a small guild. Picking your battles is important, avoid emblems that are going to demolish you.

 

Its been years since I was part of a guild that was significantly smaller than the best guilds on the server. We ran around and broke emps a lot of WoE, because when you can't topple the giants, you take what you can. Look at this: http://choobs.org/va...stats/takeovers . nWo was a tiny guild and they ran around every WoE and got the most takeovers ever. The top 9 for breakers were all small guilds. When you are a small guild and you try and break a bunch of forts you will find other small guilds doing the same thing. Those guilds are reasonable competition. Look at Classic through the same lens: http://choobs.org/cl...meline/20141227. This was the most recent non-event WoE. Small guilds can fight chrono triggers, cute unit, temest, chess, mirai, aNo, and ID. If you assume that Valk will go wherever the fights are (outside of their objective forts) you have not observed Valk leadership for the past 6 years. 

 

This was the WoE after HB quit: http://choobs.org/cl...meline/20141228 . Valk is an opportunistic alliance clearly. HB and WC were cats, and Valk was a mouse. The cats are gone and the mice are feeding now. But that sets the bar very low. All a small guild has to do is be a quicker mouse and a piece of the cheese is theirs. 15 people can't hold 10 forts that are under constant pressure from small guilds, no matter how mobile they are. Small guilds just need to realize that their goal should be to take forts, and keep moving until they find the easiest "get".


Edited by Scuba, 08 January 2015 - 10:45 AM.

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#156 Eyjafjallajokull

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 10:57 AM

photo-83341.jpg?_r=1384247718


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#157 Themes

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 11:06 AM

To be fair Scuba, he said it would be mostly done by the end of this week. Assuming their isnt any complicated stuff to go along with it, it's probably not that big of a deal.


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#158 Xellie

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 11:11 AM

Okay well you have failed to answer my question. How does this solution solve any of those problems? Sounds like maybe Camp should be fixing whatever is broken with the GvG room instead of this unnecessarily complicated pet project.

 

This dialogue is ultimately pointless because Campitor already seems committed to do it anyway regardless of reasoning.

 

Don't be so condescending, its not my job to hand hold new guilds and teach them anything. "Learning to WoE" is a ridiculous notion, it implies that there is a right and wrong way. WoE should be in flux, what works for one guild won't always translate over to another. A guild's size, goals, mechanical skill, class distribution, and creativity vary hugely guild to guild. And it is up to each individual guild to figure out their strengths and weaknesses. After being in a competitive WoE guild for so long the idea of a "roster" to me is soul-sucking. Guilds should encourage people to play what they want instead of what they need to "dominate the server". Losing is a prerequisite to winning if you are a small guild. Picking your battles is important, avoid emblems that are going to demolish you.

 

Its been years since I was part of a guild that was significantly smaller than the best guilds on the server. We ran around and broke emps a lot of WoE, because when you can't topple the giants, you take what you can. Look at this: http://choobs.org/va...stats/takeovers . nWo was a tiny guild and they ran around every WoE and got the most takeovers ever. The top 9 for breakers were all small guilds. When you are a small guild and you try and break a bunch of forts you will find other small guilds doing the same thing. Those guilds are reasonable competition. Look at Classic through the same lens: http://choobs.org/cl...meline/20141227. This was the most recent non-event WoE. Small guilds can fight chrono triggers, cute unit, temest, chess, mirai, aNo, and ID. If you assume that Valk will go wherever the fights are (outside of their objective forts) you have not observed Valk leadership for the past 6 years. 

 

This was the WoE after HB quit: http://choobs.org/cl...meline/20141228 . Valk is an opportunistic alliance clearly. HB and WC were cats, and Valk was a mouse. The cats are gone and the mice are feeding now. But that sets the bar very low. All a small guild has to do is be a quicker mouse and a piece of the cheese is theirs. 15 people can't hold 10 forts that are under constant pressure from small guilds, no matter how mobile they are. Small guilds just need to realize that their goal should be to take forts, and keep moving until they find the easiest "get".

 

blahblahblahblah if we wanna teach people to play better, it's good for the server

 

at the very least they'll be able to handle small parties at the end and get those forts, nobody cares what their roster is so long as they have the very basics (strings and a pala ) anything else is going to have to learn to play good

 

- small guild leader 2005-2012

- huge guildleader ever since
 


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#159 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 11:40 AM

I think the idea is decent and would have been a huge thing if it was done months ago to be used for "practice" or "GVGs" between rival guilds. 

 

I hope that it is used in the future for pvp, or rather gvg, events. With the lack of USRC, I think people are itching for some sort of "team based tournament". Not just something that happens once in a blue moon, but something consistent that is worth practicing for. Could host 12v12 every quarter of the year and that would be insainly awesome for the server. 

 

I guess my point is, don't get stuck into the thinking of "this only has 1 purpose". If the only purpose is for practice with other guilds so they can play better (whatever that means), then it will be a short lived fad at best. It would be so easy to do multiple things with this and make some popular things to advertise the server with. 12 vs 12 or GVG style tournaments would be great! 

 

It would...

 

-Let people from other servers see competition and want to participate

-Easy advertising

-Easy enough to organize and run

-Help the WoE scene

-Help the PvP team

-Practice is the best part (if you've done USRC before you know what I mean)

-Friendly competition

 

Before the "there is more to the server then just WoE"..... I will clarify..... All aspects of the game are important, however without any competition in WoE it effects the motivation for doing the rest of the game. This person can summaries it better then me.

 

There has never been a successful server that was pure PVE/MVP. At some point, the grind becomes pointless after you've killed the same mob on the same map for the nth time. Whether you enjoy questing, sitting and talking in town, exploring maps, doing roleplay, or whatever -- there's never been a server that has survive with a focus on only those aspects. Sooner or later it gets stale, you get bored, and either you leave on your own or the server dies and you're forced to move on. If the contrary were true, you guys would still be playing on your original servers.

 

WOE brings competition, and that competition inspires players to keep playing and getting better. It makes them want to theorycraft new builds and strategies, create new meta, and pursue the game from new perspectives. However, like with the other features, no server can survive it focuses only on WOE, which is why pservers fail.


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#160 Ecclesio

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 12:13 PM

Would there on this server be interest in a practice castle that can be booked by two guilds and stay booked for 1 hour?

 

i responded to this but none of the mods approved my post. i guess asking to fix the broken gvg rooms already in the game and making tierra the bg that people want to play is TOO CONTROVERSIAL. womp womp. also its not as if players have been asking for these two things for months now...oh wait they have.

 

 


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#161 AmericanPie

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 02:20 PM

WOE comes with objectives for certain people. We small guild try to have fun but it's really not fun when u enter the warp and then next u know is being warped to inn. We want something that can be scattered randomly and make a way to regroup. And then spar until we fully satisfied. Resource wise? Just spam white pot, why need slims? There's no rush.

Newbies such as me and my guildies, we need to LEARN how to WOE. It's not about character, role and just "do what you do best". That is solo pvp-ing. We lack teamwork, and lack experience. We need to know how much damage can be done with our weapon. We need to know how matk +30% battleground weapon works to non mdef enemies. We need to learn how to create the formation.
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#162 Flack

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 02:55 PM

Okay well you have failed to answer my question. How does this solution solve any of those problems? Sounds like maybe Camp should be fixing whatever is broken with the GvG room instead of this unnecessarily complicated pet project.

 

This dialogue is ultimately pointless because Campitor already seems committed to do it anyway regardless of reasoning.

 

Don't be so condescending, its not my job to hand hold new guilds and teach them anything. "Learning to WoE" is a ridiculous notion, it implies that there is a right and wrong way. WoE should be in flux, what works for one guild won't always translate over to another. A guild's size, goals, mechanical skill, class distribution, and creativity vary hugely guild to guild. And it is up to each individual guild to figure out their strengths and weaknesses. After being in a competitive WoE guild for so long the idea of a "roster" to me is soul-sucking. Guilds should encourage people to play what they want instead of what they need to "dominate the server". Losing is a prerequisite to winning if you are a small guild. Picking your battles is important, avoid emblems that are going to demolish you.

 

Its been years since I was part of a guild that was significantly smaller than the best guilds on the server. We ran around and broke emps a lot of WoE, because when you can't topple the giants, you take what you can. Look at this: http://choobs.org/va...stats/takeovers . nWo was a tiny guild and they ran around every WoE and got the most takeovers ever. The top 9 for breakers were all small guilds. When you are a small guild and you try and break a bunch of forts you will find other small guilds doing the same thing. Those guilds are reasonable competition. Look at Classic through the same lens: http://choobs.org/cl...meline/20141227. This was the most recent non-event WoE. Small guilds can fight chrono triggers, cute unit, temest, chess, mirai, aNo, and ID. If you assume that Valk will go wherever the fights are (outside of their objective forts) you have not observed Valk leadership for the past 6 years. 

 

This was the WoE after HB quit: http://choobs.org/cl...meline/20141228 . Valk is an opportunistic alliance clearly. HB and WC were cats, and Valk was a mouse. The cats are gone and the mice are feeding now. But that sets the bar very low. All a small guild has to do is be a quicker mouse and a piece of the cheese is theirs. 15 people can't hold 10 forts that are under constant pressure from small guilds, no matter how mobile they are. Small guilds just need to realize that their goal should be to take forts, and keep moving until they find the easiest "get".

 

This is extremely well said and articulated.  Kudos for this. 

 

Also this was an event WoE http://choobs.org/cl...meline/20141228 where you could not use consumables.

 

I'll agree as well that if you can make the special fake WoE setting for players as long as it doesn't take one month to implement then go for it. 


Edited by Flack, 08 January 2015 - 02:55 PM.

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#163 meichaofeng

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 11:06 PM

EDIT: removing anything, nothing to say. Lost hope,.


Edited by meichaofeng, 08 January 2015 - 11:10 PM.

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