162 replies to this topic

[belld1711]

o.o I'm glad I don't WoE...

 

 
 
the first time janeway was in, you could just go back and talk to her to get to 70/50 as a trans 2nd class, which is why people accidentally ended up with level 70 trans first class chars or even trans novice. you didn't need to kill any monsters the 2nd time around. imo the first iteration of janeway was more op because you could get a 70/50 trans char after grinding from 70-99 on a pretrans char which is super easy anyway. however, the current iteration of janeway is pretty baller for SN since you end up with a 99/95 SN at the end of it if you started from scratch (with like 95% into job 95 as well).

 

Yeah, I forgot that one small detail about the first time Janeway came in. lol And it's true that SNs get an awesome drop off point, but compare that to a regular class. You can do the quests and go straight to rebirthing. For an SN, not only do you have to level to 45 and change to SN before taking the 2nd quest from Janeway, but you also get dropped off a few jobs before your able to change to the second version of SN. No, it's really not too much of a big deal, but strictly comparing them to other classes, the only other class that gets the stick as badly are ninjas. After they hit 99, they can change... to level 99/1 Oboro/Kag.

 

Cool thanks for summing it up.

 

Yeah I can get behind this, as long as the players are awarded level appropriate (probably character bound) gear and possibly zeny for potions so that they're not left with nothing when they're done with the event. My only concern would be what happens to players when they're done. They've got a level xx/xx dude where do they go now? Who do they play with? What do they need to keep playing? As long as these questions are answered it could work out really well.

 

That's the problem. There's a handful of second class non-trans players hanging out in Izlude at any given time with chats open begging for zeny so they can rebirth in Renewal. And with the exception of ~500-600 novice red pots, no other items are handed out except one set of Eden equipment. The very first set. It's good, but for a second class character? Eh, not really... You have 0 zeny, no racial/elemental resist gears, no accessories, etc. That's why I'm saying it all depends on the gears given out during Janeway and/or jump event. If it's just the best NPC buyable gear, I think it'd be better to not have an even at all, IMO.

Edited by belld1711, 06 January 2015 - 11:44 AM.

[HikariYari]

Really... blocking people for speaking their minds? Some of the points about GvG/WoE were very valid arguments even if they may SEEM inflammatory. Also, It seems like 12 or more users are allowed to follow and attack a single user cause they don't agree with their ideas or guild affiliation. Yet some people are too afraid to step in and intervene.

 

Anyway, The leveling idea you brought up would be much better if they balanced the exp of many monsters as well as helped the new users at least get base level 70 and job 50. That way they have more leveling options and they can skip some of the early stuff. I can understand the reasoning of the level 50 cap though, you don't want people making seal characters. But, if that's the case people already make level 70 seal characters in less than a few min per character.

 

The jump also doesn't help them out too much if it doesn't include some decent equipment or items that aren't too valuable. Could also throw the incentive of getting a couple Oca for getting level 99 for the jump players.

Edited by HikariYari, 06 January 2015 - 11:47 AM.

[needmorezleep]

. I would support something like this if it could be pulled off though scripts as the dev team here is limited in what can be change and what those guilds wanted to happen was hard coded into the game which kro won't release.

its done on emulators via scripts without any source mods so i dont think it would be a stretch to assume they can do it with vanilla aegis. 

[Xellie]

actually I can probably spam this since the mods are inactive and never check these things anyway xD

[Xellie]

So what's the probo for? Posting at the same time as oda and not seeing the warning or busting the caps key? Perhaps it was the red text or maybe it was the hard hitting frightening truth that something needs to change.

Help me out here, because apparently something there is equal to constant harassment.

Or is it that I'm in Valhalla and we're not allowed an opinion on WoE? Just how we were told about not being allowed an opinion on the god quest because we were one group (despite being the only group to do it?)
 

[Necrohealiac]

 

For an SN, not only do you have to level to 45 and change to SN before taking the 2nd quest from Janeway, but you also get dropped off a few jobs before your able to change to the second version of SN.

 
janeway was so much better than normal leveling the SN to 99/99; there were plenty of folks with SNs already in the 90s who ended up with like 99/8x or 99/low 90s jobs after janeway. 3 job levels and 10% is a joke, especially with the eden 91-99 quests awarding 300k+ job exp (non-vip) per turn in of 30 kills. completing 3 of those quests gave me a job level, and there are enough of those to get straight to 99 in one go.

my SN was on a new acct so it was a bit annoying leveling to 45 but not impossible (slaving or completing counts on a higher level char for turn ins), but if it was created on an existing account and you had 99 merc scrolls, getting to 45 is a cinch.

[Themes]

That's the problem. There's a handful of second class non-trans players hanging out in Izlude at any given time with chats open begging for zeny so they can rebirth in Renewal. And with the exception of ~500-600 novice red pots, no other items are handed out except one set of Eden equipment. The very first set. It's good, but for a second class character? Eh, not really... You have 0 zeny, no racial/elemental resist gears, no accessories, etc. That's why I'm saying it all depends on the gears given out during Janeway and/or jump event. If it's just the best NPC buyable gear, I think it'd be better to not have an even at all, IMO.

 

We had a similar problem with Dragonlabs when it first went in on the server. Except instead of second class characters is was level 9x Trans.

 

I feel that this is the key issue, if you want to help people get started thats fine. But dont just abandon them after that. Look into ways to help them after you jump them to your chosen levels. Honestly the best way would be just continuing the quests, make them go see an NPC in their jobs guild that starts a quest chain that can get them some useful gear.

 

Useful gear could be: Shield with 5-10% race reduction, garment with 5-7% neutral resist or 5-10 flee, a weapon with 20-40% element damage, armor with 300hp etc. Something on par with the general low tier of cards (condor, roda frog etc) so that they can get by without having to collect all this stuff.

 

Dont make it super easy, have them collect stuff and bring it back, maybe have them buy an NPC armor and get it "enchanted" with some magical things they bring back or however you want to sell it. Do it over multiple levels too (a new item every 5-10 levels?), teach them about elements with their new weapon, teach them about monster races with their new shield, encourage them to group together for a final task in a dungeon or something.

Edited by Themes, 06 January 2015 - 12:03 PM.

[belld1711]

 
 
janeway was so much better than normal leveling the SN to 99/99; there were plenty of folks with SNs already in the 90s who ended up with like 99/8x or 99/low 90s jobs after janeway. 3 job levels and 10% is a joke, especially with the eden 91-99 quests awarding 300k+ job exp (non-vip) per turn in of 30 kills. completing 3 of those quests gave me a job level, and there are enough of those to get straight to 99 in one go.

my SN was on a new acct so it was a bit annoying leveling to 45 but not impossible (slaving or completing counts on a higher level char for turn ins), but if it was created on an existing account and you had 99 merc scrolls, getting to 45 is a cinch.

 

That's why I said "strictly comparing them to other classes..." Your right, it's probably not that big of a deal. But compared to other classes, they do have it a bit more rough. This is supposed to be all about attracting newer players, anyway. A brand new player to the Classic server isn't going to have alts or mercenary scrolls. Personally, I have a level 50 or 60-something swordsman and three other lower leveled characters (roughly level 30 or so.)

 

We had a similar problem with Dragonlabs when it first went in on the server. Except instead of second class characters is was level 9x Trans.

 

I feel that this is the key issue, if you want to help people get started thats fine. But dont just abandon them after that. Look into ways to help them after you jump them to your chosen levels. Honestly the best way would be just continuing the quests, make them go see an NPC in their jobs guild that starts a quest chain that can get them some useful gear.

 

Useful gear could be: Shield with 5-10% race reduction, garment with 5-7% neutral resist or 5-10 flee, a weapon with 20-40% element damage, armor with 300hp etc. Something on par with the general low tier of cards (condor, roda frog etc) so that they can get by without having to collect all this stuff.

 

Dont make it super easy, have them collect stuff and bring it back, maybe have them buy an NPC armor and get it "enchanted" with some magical things they bring back or however you want to sell it. Do it over multiple levels too (a new item every 5-10 levels?), teach them about elements with their new weapon, teach them about monster races with their new shield, encourage them to group together for a final task in a dungeon or something.

 

That would be ideal, imo. But not likely to happen. With the event going in tomorrow after maintenance, there isn't enough time to script all that. Even if they did have time, they'd probably just have certain items appear in your inventory after doing certain parts of the Janeway quests anyway. Less scripting, pain for the devs, etc...

Edited by belld1711, 06 January 2015 - 12:35 PM.

[heyxsean]

Thanks for event woes ... we need more ...

[Necrohealiac]

i'd feel sorry for them if the first char someone decided to roll on classic was SN.

[CaliJin]

what in the world with all these replies its pretty long to read and it doesnt even include granny boxter xD yay 15min wasted. thanks guys!  

[ClickyHpen]

jeez look at all these angry words. i have a relatively peaceful suggestion if we're still doing spawn changes: more drillers on the drillers map please. was hunting gems there for my almost good go go hocus sage and man, it's kinda sparse. for reference, it's uhhh 1 south 1 west from juno? i think. they're tasty for gems and if there were a ton maybe people could farm their siege gems there i dunno.

 

or just decrease non-trans base exp requirements that's fine with me i guess?? dang man i just wanted the old thread to go up to post about drillers.

[AmericanPie]

Looking at the quitting rate of major players really scaring me (referring to classic marketplace). Lots of guild really quits for whatever reasons (woe events, god items stuff, temporary banned acc) and here I am, suddenly lost my spirits to online, and even buying items. All I see was arguments, banned acc, and the small people from my guilds start telling that no one ever participates in BG and PVP nowadays. I wonder what went wrong and honestly, it's really demotivating when u just properly established in the server (proper eqs with no gods, and finally 99 trans). Sigh..

[IlliterateGaming]

Looking at the quitting rate of major players really scaring me (referring to classic marketplace). Lots of guild really quits for whatever reasons (woe events, god items stuff, temporary banned acc) and here I am, suddenly lost my spirits to online, and even buying items. All I see was arguments, banned acc, and the small people from my guilds start telling that no one ever participates in BG and PVP nowadays. I wonder what went wrong and honestly, it's really demotivating when u just properly established in the server (proper eqs with no gods, and finally 99 trans). Sigh..

 

I suggest you don't read the forums and play the game for yourself. Don't compare yourself to others and work towards your own goals. Don't create goals based on what other players have, pursue what you want. It is the people who care more about winning than the journey of the game that are quitting. RO is a very enjoyable game when you avoid the "endgame" mentality. Try making a unique build and gear that. Give yourself restrictions to add a challenge. Record and share your progress. You don't need to "stomp" people with current meta builds to have fun. I've never killed a naturally spawning Valk Randgris, but do I have to be the top tier MvPer to enjoy the game? Nopee.

 

I can see how the lack of community is discouraging, but try and play the game for immersion, not for endgame. Maybe you will meet people you enjoy along the way. Probably won't find them among the forumfolk, but there are nice people in game. When it gets down to it you only need a group of 2-10 people to enjoy 99% of the game. Vending and trading are just shortcuts to help you trade gear and items that are irrelevant for you in exchange for gears and items that your class can use. You don't need an economy to gear your character, just dedication to what you want to achieve.

 

glhf!

[Flack]

On to feedback for the GMs

 

Of the 3 event WoE's I participated in I only enjoyed one which was the super novice and novice WoE.  I think if you did this event WoE again in a single WoE relm with some incentive for participation this would be really fun to do again in the future. 

Edited by VModCinnamon, 06 January 2015 - 08:43 PM.
Removed none constructive part- "asking users not to play"

[AmericanPie]

I suggest you don't read the forums and play the game for yourself. Don't compare yourself to others and work towards your own goals. Don't create goals based on what other players have, pursue what you want. It is the people who care more about winning than the journey of the game that are quitting. RO is a very enjoyable game when you avoid the "endgame" mentality. Try making a unique build and gear that. Give yourself restrictions to add a challenge. Record and share your progress. You don't need to "stomp" people with current meta builds to have fun. I've never killed a naturally spawning Valk Randgris, but do I have to be the top tier MvPer to enjoy the game? Nopee.

I can see how the lack of community is discouraging, but try and play the game for immersion, not for endgame. Maybe you will meet people you enjoy along the way. Probably won't find them among the forumfolk, but there are nice people in game. When it gets down to it you only need a group of 2-10 people to enjoy 99% of the game. Vending and trading are just shortcuts to help you trade gear and items that are irrelevant for you in exchange for gears and items that your class can use. You don't need an economy to gear your character, just dedication to what you want to achieve.

glhf!

Yeah I agree wih u, even the rate of quitting that kept on increasing did not makes me quit, but somehow less motivating. I'm afraid it will be at a point where there are none that attacked a defending guild. Even for the past few weeks, if me and my guildsmate want to have the thrill of attacking a non-empty castle, we go to brit owned by AnO where there actually got people. Not having anything against them, just to have that pleasure of actually fighting others in game.

It just that, some of the old timer that somehow be a "mentor" of mine, quits and it frustrating. But I wonder what is the best solution to increase population on classic? Left alone the conflicts pf major guild, they have their own opinion. But for us low-mid range player, looks like we've keep on losing the thrill of pvp. BG turns out to be a badge farming ground, pvp left empty and woe spotlight at certain castles only. I have no issue with gods item, we can somehow have a good fight with numbers and skills, but where is good platform for that?

Edited by AmericanPie, 06 January 2015 - 03:06 PM.

[Themes]

I suggest you don't read the forums and play the game for yourself. Don't compare yourself to others and work towards your own goals. Don't create goals based on what other players have, pursue what you want. It is the people who care more about winning than the journey of the game that are quitting. RO is a very enjoyable game when you avoid the "endgame" mentality. Try making a unique build and gear that. Give yourself restrictions to add a challenge. Record and share your progress. You don't need to "stomp" people with current meta builds to have fun. I've never killed a naturally spawning Valk Randgris, but do I have to be the top tier MvPer to enjoy the game? Nopee.

 

I can see how the lack of community is discouraging, but try and play the game for immersion, not for endgame. Maybe you will meet people you enjoy along the way. Probably won't find them among the forumfolk, but there are nice people in game. When it gets down to it you only need a group of 2-10 people to enjoy 99% of the game. Vending and trading are just shortcuts to help you trade gear and items that are irrelevant for you in exchange for gears and items that your class can use. You don't need an economy to gear your character, just dedication to what you want to achieve.

 

glhf!

 

This guy gets it.

 

Plenty of fun and interesting things to do, just dont do what other people want you to do. It would really help if we had a common place to meet up to find people to group or chat with, I'm probably going to hang around the Janeway NPCs over the next week or two, see if we can get something started.

 

Yeah unfortunately one or two people isnt really enough to get by in woe, there's usually people in numbers like that in forts at the end of 1.0 but that's about it.

 

Increasing the population is kind of a hard one, there's a few different groups of people and it's hard to cater to them all (or any of them really). There's lots of stuff that people want, but it's actually hard to deliver to most of them. The people you see here posting on the forums a -_-load are generally the ones who get involved in woe/pvm in a big way and dont really represent a lot of the players.

 

I'd be down to do more BGs if we could get Tierra up and running regularly again, I'm not interested in doing Flavius but I actually enjoy Tierra and would gladly bring a bunch of dudes for stuff. Maybe I can spend some time alt tabbed in pvp too.

Edited by Themes, 06 January 2015 - 03:15 PM.

[AmericanPie]

This guy gets it.

Plenty of fun and interesting things to do, just dont do what other people want you to do. It would really help if we had a common place to meet up to find people to group or chat with, I'm probably going to hang around the Janeway NPCs over the next week or two, see if we can get something started.

Awesome idea. Perhaps we could sit down and sometimes arrange for a pvp friendly battle against each other. A fun one i might said.

[Themes]

Yeah I'd be down I have a friend or two I could probably raise on short-ish notice.

 

I actually had a guy logged out in South Pront for a while I was logging into occasionally just hoping to catch anyone sitting around to talk to, but it was always empty

Edited by Themes, 06 January 2015 - 03:17 PM.

[HikariYari]

 

On to feedback for the GMs

 

Of the 3 event WoE's I participated in I only enjoyed one which was the super novice and novice WoE.  I think if you did this event WoE again in a single WoE relm with some incentive for participation this would be really fun to do again in the future. 

Flack WoE is really unhealthy now. It's getting harder for smaller start up guilds to get into it now. More small WoE guilds are leaving the server because they can't compete with the larger guilds. 

 

 

Edited by VModCinnamon, 06 January 2015 - 08:44 PM.
Removed in previous quote.

[Xellie]

Cause telling people to leave is constructive   

We just want the situation to improve. Not an empty server.....

[AlmrOfAtlas]

What's with the probations issued to players that actually have something relevant to say? And yet players that make one-liner offhand troll comments don't even get looked at? The WoE situation is atrocious. You shouldn't be slamming people for choosing to highlight it, especially when they do so in response to other players that are ignoring the facts to retain the status quo.

 

Solutions to the predicament we're in do not consist of "give everyone moar godz" or "just stop WoEing" btw. That would exacerbate it.

[HikariYari]

So my post was removed? I didn't say anything offensive or wrong.

[Xellie]

petition to rename thread to Valkyrie Server Thread

[Campitor]

So my post was removed? I didn't say anything offensive or wrong.

Fixed! It wasn't supposed to disappear entirely.