182 replies to this topic

[VuoriDevine]

sry got this one shot with 3 defence runes +20 colo gears and 3 cazar +20 gears. 65k no guildskill.

hmmmm.... how you wear 6 gears?! or are you using t2 wpn?!

[MingMei]

probably cazar weapon body and legs 

[VuoriDevine]

probably cazar weapon body and legs 
 

hmmmm i hope so, coz if its not like that then the math doesnt work, and wearing t2 wpn is a waste.

Weapon shouldnt matter coz it doesnt give def.

you cant wear 3 def runes and 3 cazar +20.
Head
Chest
Gloves
pants
boots = 5.... see? XD

[MingMei]

ah yes 

he included weapon in his count

Edited by chaseme, 20 January 2015 - 08:00 PM.

[Vau]

Grimtooth wasnt supposed to be affected by X2 modifier out of hide but it seems giving them Penetration wasn't enough and they gave them a mid-range attack than can hit and crit 10 people.
Oh hey this is what they call class balancing right?

Hide skill description says any skill (Non- AoE) should deal 2x damage. the problem is that Gravity improved Grimtooth before fixing 2x damage on Grimtooth.

 

 

I have already made detailed reports asking for Grimtooth and cross impact to be kill But it does not seem like it is. That player is a SEA player with high end runes. If people wish  to end the one shots have them equip a pvp wep instead of +20 cazar/himme/osiris. I can't get the screenshot atm but with a pvp claw my cross impact drops to 16k damage from hide in crit vs the 45k+ i usually do. Depending how new content will be ill probably post my pvp changes/fixes i been dying to post but constant changes within the game have me going back and forth,

 

As Leila said we've already asked for Grimtooth and Cross Impact to be nerfed. Not sure where you come from saying we're loving it, just because the devs haven't made a balance patch yet. We suggest stuff, then we can only wait.

 

If you wanna know, my personal suggestion was to:

 

Lower Shadow Armor to 5 levels max (we don't need 100% reduction damage for 5 secs)

Lower Grimtooth levels as well, because a Heal + range + slow skill can't be also High damage.

Increase Levels / Damage for Shadow Fang because our aoe is pretty low compared to other classes when grinding.

Add Levels to Cross Impact and Split them between pre-ML and PostML. So you'd need to actually invest extra points to get the damage it currently has. Otherwise, just reduce it's damage because it's a Frigging Thief Skill, can't be so OP

 

Personally, I don't think making x2 damage affect AoE is bad as long as the skil itself is balanced.

 

For god sake, don't push for a nerf to Assassins, if anything, all you VCR's push for a nerf on the formulas, and rebalance stats all over again, whoever said that the stats table is balanced, is so damn wrong. I'm not criticizing you guys but improving or nerfing classes should go after balancing general formulas on the game. All these changes are band-aids for a broken system. See the picture as a whole, damage, heal and cooldowns in general. The best thing you can do, is to unify forces among all the classes and push for this changes first. The game needs diferentiation, Tanks are tanks, DPS is DPS, support is support. Every class doing everything makes no good to the game, cause people will roll to the TOP class  on all of this. But having 45+ VCR's makes no good either, it's harder to take decisions if you have to argue with 7-8 Assassin's VCR. I don't know who is Njoror listening to, actually, unless hes sending all the stuff to Gravity and let them do whatever they want.

 

 

Step by step boys, step by step. (8)

[xLuc]

^It's kinda fun to see that all the broken stuff AoV has brought up hasn't been fixed after a whole fken year, right, Vau? Past the time to abandon ship I believe..

[Fashnu]

Is there a problem with the server lately? Can't update it. Anyone here can answer my query?

[Greven79]

@ Hide - Part 1:

Spoiler

Arrow shower is great for farming and grinding because it has a wide range and no cast time after ML. Even Multishot has a range of 15m which makes it an useful opener out of hide, to follow with Arrow shower.

But then again, x2 damage is only applied to the first hit, you can't rehide (unless u're a rogue). And even if you can leave combat and come back in pvp, you're risking your target getting healed, therefore making your previous attack useless unless it was dead already ( i cant really understand how or why youd ise this strategy)

 
First of all, hide affects not only the first hit, but the whole first skill. In case of a Arrow Shower:
 
Without hide:

 
With hide:

 
Depending on the number of critical hits, you could achieve a total equal to 2632% damage. That's only 15% behind the skill damage of Grimtooth (3080%). Using the example given a bit ago:
 

 
It would still result in about ~56k damage.
 
But to be fair, this ignores a possible armor penetration (although some still consider it balanced).
 
So whether a skill is 'useful in PvE' or someone 'likes' it, shouldn't be a part of a balance argumentation. F.e. some players might find it 'useful in Pve' or would 'like' it, if AoEs could hit more than 10 monsters, but is it fair or balanced?

 

In case of the Grimtooth and Arrow Shower example: It would be also be possible to balance Grimtooth by changing it to hit multiple times instead, just like Brandish Storm, Cross Impact, Magnus Exorcism, Judex, Meteor Storm, Lord of Vermillion, the mentioned Arrow Shower or even Soul Extortion. Less likely that every hit is critical. And the same could be done with Cross Impact.

 
@ Shadow Fang:

Spoiler

Shadow fang: you mention animation time, but shadow fang is actually slow between casts and it has a major disadvantage compared to other aoes: We need to target. I don't recall any other aoe that targets mobs, and that works against us when the other dps have more damage, by the time we target a mob, it might die already.

 
There are like five different AoE variants:

• 5m radius all around you, no aim needed
• 150° cone with 5~15m range, no aim needed
• 5m radius, centered up to 15m away, requires to aim a red circle in a blue circle
• 5m radius, usually centered up to 10~20m away, auto-aims at selected target
• 'jump-over-to-next-target' AoE, range up to 20m, auto-aims at selected target

For me, it's hard to say which one is the best.
 
F.e. a Priest's Magnus Exorcism once were the 'red-circle' variant. Cumbersome and not usable on the run, but it was usable without selecting a target. In the current PvE situation, possible targets are often dead before the skill hits them and it also leaves the Priest totally helpless against invisible targets. There you also have your "other aoe that targets mobs".
 
But is it worse than a Lord of Vermillion that doesn't require you to aim the red circle, but is centered around you instead?
 
Thanks to the extra range of Shadow Fang, an assassin is at least able to 'kite' melee monsters, something you can't do with melee AoEs.
 
Don't get me wrong though. I wouldn't care, if assassins get a cone-like AoE similar to Bram Gush, nor would it be unflavorful, if they get a "jumps-over" version similar to Earth Worm (would still require a selected target).
 
In regard of the so called "slow between casts" issue of Shadow Fang. I can cast it like 21~22 times within 30sec. So the cooldown is about 1.4sec. Compared to a 4~5sec of Meteor Swarm, it's 3~3.6 times as fast (ignores 'aiming' time for the red circle). To sum it up:
 
Shadow Fang: 120% DPS (~140% with 5 combo points)
Meteor Swarm: 118~140% DPS, depending on casting time
 
That's truly a horrific damage disadvantage for the assassin!
(And btw: It's 20~21 Rolling Cutter every 30sec => 120~130% DPS before DoT for the Rogue)

 
@ Grimtooth:

Spoiler

Grimtooth: i dont question the heal because I think every class needs a sort of self preserving skill. I've lost count the times I had to rely on GT or Survival (bm) because the healer had a slip and i almost died. We could discuss if 20% is op or not, but i find it isn't that much when fighting someone that makes high damage on each hit, and my cd isn't low enough to make it likely that i'd spam heal. ANd the slow is good alternative for those who don't invest points in Shadow assault, it gives u a way to actually chase after targets.

 
Well, we have a different opinion about heal skills, but that's ok. I'm more the 'in case of emergency, use a pot' guy. So I would leave the heals for the support classes. So if an assassin is qualified for a heal skill, why shouldn't this be different for the ranger, crecentia or monk? And skills like Shadow Armor count as 'self-preservation', the assassin has already one of the most powerful ones. Strangely enough, assassins survived a year without a heal effect as well. But what I meant was, why add this effect to an AoE skill?
 
And in my opinion, your argument about the slow is not the best one. Why would the assassin be the only class to get two options? Currently, Warriors, Priests, Beastmasters and Monks are the classes without a slow effect, but two of them have at least a speed bonus. So the system still seems thoughtless in my opinion.
 
I also mentioned the two effects, not because they are op, but another reason (beside combo point generation) that might force the skill to have such a high cooldown. So instead of just lowering the damage output, why not place these goodies elsewhere? This would allow the skill to get a significant lower cooldown, without lowering the damage that much.

 
@ Hide - part 2:

Spoiler

Hide: i consider x2 to be a fair bonus. Less than that would make the skill useless, so we'd invest points on other skills instead. If anything, you should look at skills damage instead. And here i'll touch a sensitive subject: i dont feel rangers weak at all (on pve)

 
That's strange. To be able to avoid any sort of attacks is 'useless', if the skill doesn't double the damage as well? Ok... That makes it hard to discuss it that much further.
 
For me, the 'invisibility' part is even the more broken one. So that's why my vision of Hide would impose a speed penality on every skill level. In addition, I would replace the x2 damage bonus with an automatic critical hit (avoids the quadruple damage on a crit.) and would have a casting time of at least 2sec (interrupted when taking damage). But it would be usuable during combat (not that combat ends way too fast on WoE encounters anyways).
 
But as Vau has pointed out, it's primarily about a general formula fix. Adjusting skills is only secondary to that.

Edited by Greven79, 23 January 2015 - 07:39 AM.