31 replies to this topic

[GammaBreaker]

I recently used the free reset on my 99 Sorcerer, because why not?  While originally planned to be a basic AOE/SupportThe thing is, I'm not really sure what to do with it now.  A friend pointed out that I might want to consider a Spell Fist build, as I have a couple of the components and some of the other items to go with it aren't too hard to acquire.  I also like stranger builds, such as my #2 Royal Guard that will be going almost Full Support.

 

I've got the Magician's Night Cap (will +9 it during the next Enriched event) and +9 HBP.  A +9 TSoD, La'cryma Stick or Principles of Magic (budget options) aren't too hard to make/get.  I need to do the Bradium Earring quest anyway, so I'll count that as something simple enough to get.

 

So that leaves me with some questions about Spell Fist types.

 

Pure Spell Fist - No Hindsight

This is mostly a consideration because it doesn't require a Linker.  I don't know anyone bored enough to follow me around all day on a character forever stuck at 99, and I am not a big fan of dual boxing.  It seems straight forward enough and isn't as restrictive on point spread, by not requiring Hindsight 10/Double Bolt 5.  That leaves room for 2~3 AOE spells, Safety Wall, Summons and other utilities.  Seems pretty cut & dry, and offers some of the basic utilities that groups would want when I'm not out soloing.

 

 

Spell Fist-Hindsight Hybrid

The point spread seems tighter on this, with Hindsight/Double Bolt consuming an additional 9 points.  Those have to come out of somewhere, whether it's the AOE options, utility, or Safety Wall being nixed.  On the other hand, with 191-192 ASPD being attainable through the Magician's Night Cap, Linked Hindsight will be spitting out an absolute flurry of Level 10 bolts with a 50% bonus (or more, with Siroma/Imp/Hill Wind).  Napkin math points toward it being a pretty heinous amount of damage per second.  And these hits can be pre-loaded with Spell Fist charges, so I should be able to kill two or three things before I need to reload Spell Fist, on average.  Walking around with a Linker also means that Kaahi and Kaizel are always on tap, and I can Exhale to the Linker to keep its SP full in all but the worst situations.  When using the Linker, things should be pretty smooth sailing.  When not, standard Spell Fist play (no Hindsight) won't be diminished much, save the loss of an AOE and/or utility spells.

 

 

Standard Caster-Support

This is where the practical part of my brain is telling me to go.  A full assortment of moderately powerful, fast casting AOE spells with the full array of personal & team support skills.  All around useful in both solo and group play, no feeling gimpy in certain circumstances.  Besides, let's be honest.  The way monster HP and EXP scales after 100, any significant leveling is going to be done with almost entirely AOE...

 

 

I've done some searching and reading on the forums, which sounds promising for Fist builds, keeping me from settling on the basic Caster type build.  Reading also suggests that the elemental pets are fairly formidable when running a Spell Fist build, due to the huge contribution the player's stats makes toward the Elemental's ASPD and Flee.  I expect I'd be using Ventus the most.

 

I suppose that what I'm asking for is some experience from those actually running Spell Fist builds, on whether or not it's worth the limitations it imposes.  Advice, pitfalls, strengths.  So far I've only found one good video of a Spell Fist Sorcerer running around in Abyss.

[Viri]

Leveling with spellfist is going to be a nightmare unless you don't mind or do want an intense grind. It's more something you reset to for fun after maxing your level.

[GammaBreaker]

I do have enough EXP saved up to skip straight to ~J25-30, which gets me Psychic Wave and one other AOE.  Despite that leg up, it is still a sad truth of Renewal that AOE is king after 100 -- a problem my support Paladin will be facing as RG due to Earth Drive being awful.

 

I imagine it wouldn't be as rough as running, say, a Battle AB since they outright lack AOE options (Grand Cross only by proc with a specific card, and Judex doesn't count).  But not good enough outside of TI, where I can Exhale slave and rotate AOE spells. 

[Viri]

I did al2 for a while and turn ins when i wasn't in cooldown. I didn't even have good damage gear or earth grave at all. I just had DD and psy wave. I did drag my linker down there to kahii me though, you literally can't die if you do that.

[GammaBreaker]

Kaahi on a Sorcerer is a beautiful thing. >_>

 

I don't suppose anyone has videos of their Spell Fist Sorcerers?  I've only found the one decent one.  Nevermind, found a bunch more.  Herp.

 

 

EDIT:  I was also wondering...at what point does the +7 Magician's Night Cap bonus come into play?  Depending on where it's inserted in the calculation and whether it's additive or multiplicative makes a huge difference in how large a bonus 25% is.

Edited by GammaBreaker, 18 February 2015 - 08:19 AM.

[Viri]

I think its the better bonus , like imp. Multiplies the final damage, thats how most Skill damage increased by X% effects work although it'd stack additively with imp.

[kasshin]

If you don't go AOE, you'll give up leveling REALLY soon and will probably resort back to TI parties. And you'll be subpar there too with an inferior build.

[Lapphy]

I recommend aoe. Faster leveling, solo-able. Not to say fisting isnt able to solo. But why single target? Youll burn out before 175 for sure.

[GammaBreaker]

AOE is how it'll probably go.  As neat as it sounds, single pokes with reduced AOE capacity is just silly.

 

Maybe when I'm max level by next Christmas, I'll use the Santa Reset for Spell Fist.

[mikayel]

I messed around with a spell fist build for a while and it was amazingly fun to put enemies down way faster than any other melee class... until I realized just how much a pain in the ass it was to constantly rebuff between every 2-3 mobs. Hindsight is super fun but it's just not viable to level at the mid stage. This is one of those builds that no matter how buff it gets, it's just not enough. Even if you one-shot monsters with a single hit, the rate by which you kill/get xp will be comparable to mobbing. 

 

As others have said, I also suggest going full caster/support and only really think about spell fist after you get your levels and want to solo MVP with it.

 

My real suggestion, however, is to make two sorcs and have both options. A pain in the ass, especially if you don't want to VIP a second account, but not a bad idea in the long run so you don't have to burn money on neuralizers and reset stones. 

[GammaBreaker]

There is actually a second 99 Sage (thanks, Janeway) sitting on the alt account that could be a Hindsight/Spell Fist if I really need to scratch the itch.  I've committed to a standard build.

 

Now the Sorcerer is  99/30 (stacked TI's and bounties, yay).  Grabbed Diamond Dust and Psychic Wave immediately.  With 19 points left to spend, I'm thinking:  Earth Grave 5, Varetyr Spear 5, Striking 5, Analyze 1, Warmer 3.  The next points will inch toward Agni 2 in order to get Fire Psychic Wave, and other summons/Insignias.

 

I hear mixed things about Extreme Vacuum, but it seems like a pretty powerful mobbing tool.  Should I get that sooner than later, or stick to getting Summons/Insignias first?

[mikayel]

Do have a lot of cast reduction gear? Cuz Ventus level 1 helps with faster cast time if you're soloing, and honestly I'm not at all a fan of Varetyr Spear other than it's requirement -- it's just not very... good. I guess if you plan to woe you can use it to hit someone with a GTB as it does phys attack in some capacity and it is a 'single target' skill with an AOE effect to avoid ME situations, but otherwise, just... not very good. A typical combo is PW -> Diamond Dust or Earth Grave, tho you can probably solo in Nogg for like 10 levels easily with just diamond dust (you can solo past that too, but you may want to go somewhere else like Juperos or new world for centipedes.) 

No comment on extreme vacuum, never really used it, I tend to just lay a PW out and lure mobs into it while walking around vaguely kiting enemies. 

[GammaBreaker]

I get as much out of my VS as I do Earth Grave (tried it out briefly), but it has a strangely huge damage variance.  Perhaps because it's tapping both ATK and MATK.  That's requiring 10 points though, due to the Striking 5 part.  It's a lot of investment for a medium damage AOE compared to DD and EG only taking 5 points each.  There also seems to be a shortage of Water Element enemies of grindable note after about 120.  Definitely a mark against it.

[kasshin]

Extreme Vacuum is disabled in a ton of maps I believe. It might also cause the monster(s) to teleport away when you hit them; I'm not too sure on that part.

You could utilize Killing Cloud for proccing runaway magic on temporal int boots.

You're pretty much set with 30 job points (more than set really) and you don't need much more, except for certain specific situations.

[Lapphy]

Vacuum is strictly situational. I don't do it much leveling, but parties sometimes likes them for crowd control. Especially if you get too mobbed. 

 

If you are using the temp boots, I recommend killing cloud 1 to proc the shoes. But i do pw, dd, vs, eg skills while killing. KC -> Pw -> vs -> dd -> eg ->vs in the same combo. VS actually has less cast delay than the other ones so VS can fit twice in rotation. another reason to use VS> 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also get max striking, as well as all summons lvl 2 just for leveling purposes. 

Edited by Lapphy, 25 February 2015 - 02:16 PM.

[GammaBreaker]

Thanks for the tips, especially about Killing Cloud as a way to get procs firing.  Wouldn't have occurred to me that the persistent area would set them off.

[mikayel]

Does killing cloud proc other autocast abilities like hindsight, cd-in-mouth, or even sp/hp leech? 

[GammaBreaker]

I'm assuming not, as those tend to proc off of physical type attacks.  But I suppose if anyone knows, Lapphy does.

[Lapphy]

hp sp leech yes and i think it depends on what gear. but the dmg is low so negligible. better off trying to get it to proc with something that hits harder. not too sure about hindsight or cd. I've only every experimented with casters, but i assume no as well.

[PervySageMarty]

No Killing Cloud does not proc off hindsights or CD BUT it does activate the proc of CD( as in the 5 second timer), difference is there..........

Edited by Marty5337, 26 February 2015 - 11:44 AM.

[PervySageMarty]

VS is also one of the best AoE skills to get even as a spellfister, since the nature of its formula is affected both by your MATK and ATK and the ATK portion is effected by % modifiers such as Hydra Card, but oddly not size % modifiers.

[GammaBreaker]

Hm. So would KC proc the ever popular budget option Isilla Carded headgear?

[Lapphy]

yes

[GreenIvy]

Hindsight & spell fist levels really slow. If you really want to go that route, I suggest get some good support skill to join high TI and bio4 bounty party. 

 

I personally get a aoe build first to level and party, and then reset it to another build to play for fun. 

[Alanthier]

my sorc is 127, i switched from pure aoe/summon to fist with PW (for party purposes), using hindsight/cd and spellfist with a thanatos 1h staff...dayumn, it's sad that a 1h staff has 1 more aspd than a dagger, 1 less than my +4LoD(yeah RNGesus hates me like no other so I don't usually go beyond safe level, though the thanatos staff is 6), and spellfist hits pretty damn hard + the autocasts afterwards it constantly proc the 2% hp/sp regen per sec for 30 sec, so using runaway magic is viable(so long as you're not using a summon at the time since it disappears if you happen to run out of sp unless u can catch it fast enough to replenish yours) and throw double bolt in there and you're a God.  During my testing I actually managed to destroy one of the eggs in the Academy because of how fast I was attacking/double bolts and that was without a SL, i pulled my SL in later and linked, it was like watching the end of all things...

Edited by Alanthier, 24 August 2015 - 11:33 PM.