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Endgame BM and what to aim for


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#1 9632130515120055620

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 02:17 AM

After playing a few WoEs it's pretty clear to me that BM simply doesn't have any unfair PvP mechanics like knight, priest, SM, cres, assassin etc have, so he is relegated to just being an annoying crowd control class with his stuns and is good in some siege weapons due to high health. So I've pretty much decided to just go for a PvE bear which is kinda what I made him for anyway, since WoE is twice a week and I do way more in PvE content than PvP and I don't really engage enemies anyway.

 

With the +50 and +80 runes the stat spread matters a lot and there are 3 choices to go:

  • STR - higher damage output, more threat, more pet damage
  • AGI - BM gets 2 dodge per AGI so it's pretty useful here, BM can get very dodgy and avoid a lot of damage, crit more
  • VIT - bolsters BM's OP PvE skills that are cruel bite and survival, but largely irrelevant until +50/80 VIT runes arrive

 

There's also the choice of equipment:

  • Cazar gear - nicer stat bonus, all 3 seed runes available, more vigor
  • Eddga gear - +80 rune capability, ridiculous hones that may overdo the stat loss, nice stat bonus too

 

I'm honestly thinking that eddga gear with +80 runes might be better than cazar, with blueseeds in the rune slots except for power, armor and wind. Thoughts?


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#2 HokaHoka

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 05:39 AM

Perhaps do some maths? Eddga will usually outclass Cazar stat-wise only if +80 runes, blue seeds, and hones are considered. The thing is, it takes time to get a piece of +80 rune. You might lose some secondary stats such as Vigor, etc, though.

 

Eddga is nice and all but it takes a long time to be powerful and there would be a new set of equipment anyway.


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#3 9632130515120055620

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 06:11 PM

I'm also wondering from a PvE standpoint if STR or AGI is better; str for stronger pets and higher threat/damage, but AGI is very good for dodge and also increases damage through crits. I'm pretty confused on which is strictly better for PvE.


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#4 HokaHoka

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 09:07 PM

I'm also wondering from a PvE standpoint if STR or AGI is better; str for stronger pets and higher threat/damage, but AGI is very good for dodge and also increases damage through crits. I'm pretty confused on which is strictly better for PvE.

 

Huh? Here I thought every single BM was full vit.


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#5 Greven79

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 07:07 AM

Huh? Here I thought every single BM was full vit.

 

I think he talks about the new +50 runes.


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#6 Arbalist

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 12:12 PM

About your first post:
I wouldn't say there's anything that's strictly better, since PVE is forever easy-mode anyways. I usually analyze gear upgrades on a case by case basis. Take your 'before' stats (from Cazar I'd assume) and figure out the break even point in hones and runes that you would need to outperform it. A huge variable is the honings that you actually get, since they vary so widely and they're so imperfect. One thing is certain though, if your hones can make up for your VIT, it's definitely a better choice to slot +80 runes in than +10 runes it to maximize the number of total stats you get.

But anyways, ignoring the whole generic blurb above, I'd probably say AGI is better than STR, just because of the huge hit you take from switching over to Eddga. Off the top of my head it was close to about 600 AGI without even considering hones? For my BM that equates to losing about 25% of my dodge and ~3% Crit. I'm sure there is someone who is better at math that can show how much STR is needed to make up for that Crit loss so I won't bother attempting it. I find STR pretty useless for the reasons below.

Also relates to your second post:
Threat: The thing about RO2 is you don't really need to build threat. With two tanks, you can artificially pump it up to whatever limits you'd like because of the way Taunt works. Just Taunt juggle if you're ever pressed for threat.
Damage: I would never even consider BM a damage dealer in PVE. Yeah, it'll speed up the fight ever so slightly, but honestly I feel it's negligible considering the high Defense that AOV monsters have and the lack of a good, defense-piercing DOT from BMs.

Pet Damage: Leave that work to the Cres/other magic classes, you're better off using support pets.
Hit: I feel the base amount we get from gears is more than enough. Don't really miss on bosses that much since the dodge/hit "fix" was implemented.
Parry vs Dodge: Again, I don't have the specific calculations (would be so much more helpful if we had a dodge formula), but in general I think most of us will hit diminishing returns on Parry with basic gear, and Dodge is not quite as close to diminishing yet (if it diminishes at all)

Hope it helps?


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#7 minimara

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 12:19 PM

Bro The gimmick of bears is that you don't die you stack vit and you never die and just annoy people it's like you dont even know how to play best class in the game


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#8 Arbalist

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 02:37 PM

That was true before the ability to cap out PVP Damage increase and Vigor for (semi) perma stun classes. Pure Vit is fine for PVP, but if you want to truly never die and annoy people, you'll know to mix Dodge into the equation. Dodge helps to block stuns and interrupt those chains.

Regardless, OP is discussing PVE, where you don't need to annoy people, do you? Even with full VIT, Eddga (and sometimes even Pandas) will one-shot you. I'd rather RNG for dodges to survive those hits.

Anyways, welcome back Harihara.


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#9 9632130515120055620

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 07:52 AM

Dodge is absolutely more important than VIT, there's no question there - only until we get +50 VIT runes will VIT be very meaningful to look into. My biggest concern is just going AGI will rob me of damage output, and with the eddga sets 5% bonus to STR, I'm able to currently achieve 17k attack power in bear spirit form, which really helps me mob and farm things rather fast (2k DoT pet at lvl 2!). In our FP daily groups, there's an AGI bear who often comes along (more PvP oriented) and his threat is almost half of mine most of the time; I can compete with warriors closely in the threat department too (but not knights ofc). When we are talking about PvE farming and killing bosses, I do believe time is of the essence; kill faster, get rewards faster.

 

I only have time for 1 WoE a week and PvE is where I spend 95% of my time, so I decided to focus on that. I still seem very capable of PvP in WoE though, often killing a lot of people due to my high damage output. I'm able to survive against FP bosses like a breeze, so I guess the question really just comes down to "does AGI's crits do more damage than more raw STR power?"


Edited by 9632130515120055620, 07 April 2015 - 07:53 AM.

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