149 replies to this topic

[MongoMoves]

Pally - Just a suggestion, please also remove the casting time of spin it bear!

Ninja - increase their evade rate limit or make their crit damage limit at 400% / make their cloak skill available in pvp too

Summoner - their casting time are suck without their summons. Enhance the passive skill that affect their casting time and it should not rely on their summons.

Overlord - make stumble skill have a good casting time too and 100% hit rate.

Invoker - make their crit damage limit at 400 due to their low damage attacks.

Edited by MongoMoves, 01 May 2015 - 10:59 AM.

[noxis]

I understand FD, a skill that crippled all pre-40+ anything when it was nerfed. Yes, they still had PvP capabilities and worked wonderfully in teams. But their PvE outside bosses and F7 was destroyed.

But why Crosscut and Spear Jab? You brought back the face roll Pally ground lock. Why not wait until next maitenence and bring it up to ensure it was a good idea?

There's seriously a 100 point long list I should write for when development is taken over. That shared cooldown was there for a reason.

 

agreed. skill changes should be discussed with the community prior to implementation. things change over time that may not have been considered prior to the decision.

 

developers are not players, they know the mechanics but they don't know the full effect in a pvp setting. this is understandable and that's what testers/closed beta/betas are for.

 

now onto the spearjab and crosscut. i honestly don't mind these as i would actually like to see pallys have some more power in pvp. however, if you're going to give them back this faceroll (easy pvp style) then give other classes some of their oomph back as well. which i can only assume is in a work in progress in future updates. 

 

suggestions:

 

raise the cd caps on sorcerers 500-700%. we know that elements cannot be applied to their skills as we are now, nor should they be (element stacked emblem will insta-kill groups of players in ew) but their current dps in pvp is horrendous.

 

reduce summoner reflect damage %. this is a huge problem in pvp.

 

evade should be reverted to what it once was. however this is definitely something that isn't possible yet. 

[Popcorn]

It never received the same concept for any other block rate nerf (Except for Emergency Exit.) so it's still 100% total damage and flinch protection in the form of 3 different skills.

Yes however, it's been often suggested a netf.

 

We can look into this, but can you please explain the skills a bit more detailed. It somehow rings a bell, but I'm not very familiar with Dragokin classes to be honest.

[Coolsam]

We can look into this, but can you please explain the skills a bit more detailed. It somehow rings a bell, but I'm not very familiar with Dragokin classes to be honest.

I don't play Dragonkin. But Twins had two weave skills and a shield. Essentially giving them 3 sources of 100% block rate.

[Popcorn]

agreed. skill changes should be discussed with the community prior to implementation. things change over time that may not have been considered prior to the decision.

 

developers are not players, they know the mechanics but they don't know the full effect in a pvp setting. this is understandable and that's what testers/closed beta/betas are for.

 

now onto the spearjab and crosscut. i honestly don't mind these as i would actually like to see pallys have some more power in pvp. however, if you're going to give them back this faceroll (easy pvp style) then give other classes some of their oomph back as well. which i can only assume is in a work in progress in future updates. 

 

suggestions:

 

raise the cd caps on sorcerers 500-700%. we know that elements cannot be applied to their skills as we are now, nor should they be (element stacked emblem will insta-kill groups of players in ew) but their current dps in pvp is horrendous.

 

reduce summoner reflect damage %. this is a huge problem in pvp.

 

evade should be reverted to what it once was. however this is definitely something that isn't possible yet. 

 

I agree that future changes to skills should be discussed with the community and we will do so.

And yes, we are making small steps in changing things and it's still a long way to go. I won't deny that.

 

However, thank you for your suggestions. 

We will definitely look into them and check what would be possible at the moment, in the case such changes are wished by the community.

[ohsnap]

I understand FD, a skill that crippled all pre-40+ anything when it was nerfed. Yes, they still had PvP capabilities and worked wonderfully in teams. But their PvE outside bosses and F7 was destroyed.

But why Crosscut and Spear Jab? You brought back the face roll Pally ground lock. Why not wait until next maitenence and bring it up to ensure it was a good idea?

There's seriously a 100 point long list I should write for when development is taken over. That shared cooldown was there for a reason.

The bear cast time and the share cooldown have affected pallies pve capabilities dramatically as well. Even with the share cooldowns pallies are still able to groundlock especially since lvl 10 stun hammer is so easy to obtain. Sword Dance, chain combo, crosscut/spear jab, hammer, rinse and repeat. It just makes it a lot easier to execute and lets u switch things up rather than spam hammers every second. Spin it bear is what makes pallies  good in the first place with it being able to combo with crosscut and pretty much anything. They didn't take out the cast time so nothing has really changed about the current state of pallies besides that extra dps they can bring to the table when they're groundlocking which in fact they can still do with the share cooldowns. You're complaining about the wrong things.

[cartouche]

I understand FD, a skill that crippled all pre-40+ anything when it was nerfed. Yes, they still had PvP capabilities and worked wonderfully in teams. But their PvE outside bosses and F7 was destroyed.

But why Crosscut and Spear Jab? You brought back the face roll Pally ground lock. Why not wait until next maitenence and bring it up to ensure it was a good idea?

There's seriously a 100 point long list I should write for when development is taken over. That shared cooldown was there for a reason.

 

I strongly disagree.

 

What made paladins so strong prior to the nerf was the instant spin it bear. Due to having no cast time, like the overlord bears, it was possible to evade / break ennemies' combos, as well as being able to spam it a lot easier and completing chain locks easier using the bear,

 

Now that the bear has an aftercast delay, I don't think that forcing dragoons onto only one ground skill is worth it.

 

As it is now, dragoons only use one skill in pve, and that's rolling ground. This nerf impacted us severely in pve. so much so that almost noone plays dragoon at high levels anymore (ever seen dragoons doing elga? all i see is priests shamans and commandos.. oh yes they afk bubble with TR on for ninjas, so useful...)

 

I don't think that having both skills will impact pvp too much as long as spin it bear remains with a casting time. especially since nowadays you can perma spam all you want with lv10 hammer, shield strike, and x x w combo..

[sean718]

What skills are you referring to?

The community's opinion is appreciated.

 

Concerning the Invoker class, I would increase the cooldown of "Lightning Magnet" by 3 seconds.

 

Lightning Magnet at maxed level has a current duration of 10 seconds and a cooldown of 13 seconds.

 

Lightning Magnet at maxed level also pulls in 9 targets at a pulsating rate of .5 seconds which makes it extremely difficult to escape, class of the opponents is almost irrelevant since follow up skills such as quagmire, witches curse, and barbarian will certainly follow. 

 

I can literally spam Lightning Magnet every 3 seconds and pull everyone in the vicinity for my teammates to slaughter since the duration is 10 seconds long. This has always been a problematic skill in a pvp setting and it can easily be solved by a slight increase in cooldown. 

 

As it stands, I can't even use this skill in pvp without feeling bad. 

 

--

 

The priest skill "Blessing" needs a retouch as well, since the values given in the description are only increased at the base level. Right now it's a completely useless skill. I don't know as to what capabilities the dev's have at this point so I can't expect this to be resolved any time soon.

 

But the increased values should be based on a total value but at a smaller percentage, say 15-20%

 

--

The monk skill "Rain of Fire" fails to hit targets at times (not misses, just fails to hit) making it extremely unreliable. Simple testing will show this. 

--

 

The magician skill "Fortress" should have decreased cooldown anywhere from .1-.5 seconds. It's completely useless in terms of damage and functionality, even at low levels since it eats up skill points just to make abysmally less useless. 

Edited by sean718, 01 May 2015 - 11:01 AM.

[Popcorn]

Concerning the Invoker class, I would increase the cooldown of "Lightning Magnet" by 3 seconds.

 

Lightning Magnet at maxed level has a current duration of 10 seconds and a cooldown of 13 seconds.

 

Lightning Magnet at maxed level also pulls in 9 targets at a pulsating rate of .5 seconds which makes it extremely difficult to escape, class of the opponents is almost irrelevant since follow up skills such as quagmire, witches curse, and barbarian will certainly follow. 

 

I can literally spam Lightning Magnet every 3 seconds and pull everyone in the vicinity for my teammates to slaughter since the duration is 10 seconds long. This has always been a problematic skill in a pvp setting and it can easily be solved by a slight increase in cooldown. 

 

As it stands, I can't even use this skill in pvp without feeling bad. 

 

--

 

The priest skill "Blessing" needs a retouch as well, since the values given in the description are only increased at the base level. Right now it's a completely useless skill. I don't know as to what capabilities the dev's have at this point so I can't expect this to be resolved any time soon.

 

But the increased values should be based on a total value but at a smaller percentage, say 15-20%

 

--

The monk skill "Rain of Fire" fails to hit targets at times (not misses, just fails to hit) making it extremely unreliable. Simple testing will show this. 

--

 

The magician skill "Fortress" should have decreased cooldown anywhere from .1-.5 seconds. It's completely useless in terms of damage and functionality, even at low levels since it eats up skill points just to make abysmally less useless. 

 

As for Rain of Fire I know what you're talking about, because I play Monk myself. But sadly I'm quite unsure if there can be anything done at the moment. However, it can't be wrong to have a look into it.

 

Thank you for all your suggestions.

[zirothos]

you can add the pefect seal too. 

 

Block any damage from the enemy. that not true at all first of all it not blocking the damage it not showing at all but elemental damage still do damage.

[Fliederduft78]

The bear cast time and the share cooldown have affected pallies pve capabilities dramatically as well. Even with the share cooldowns pallies are still able to groundlock especially since lvl 10 stun hammer is so easy to obtain. Sword Dance, chain combo, crosscut/spear jab, hammer, rinse and repeat. It just makes it a lot easier to execute and lets u switch things up rather than spam hammers every second. Spin it bear is what makes pallies  good in the first place with it being able to combo with crosscut and pretty much anything. They didn't take out the cast time so nothing has really changed about the current state of pallies besides that extra dps they can bring to the table when they're groundlocking which in fact they can still do with the share cooldowns. You're complaining about the wrong things.

 

 

I strongly disagree.

 

What made paladins so strong prior to the nerf was the instant spin it bear. Due to having no cast time, like the overlord bears, it was possible to evade / break ennemies' combos, as well as being able to spam it a lot easier and completing chain locks easier using the bear,

 

Now that the bear has an aftercast delay, I don't think that forcing dragoons onto only one ground skill is worth it.

 

As it is now, dragoons only use one skill in pve, and that's rolling ground. This nerf impacted us severely in pve. so much so that almost noone plays dragoon at high levels anymore (ever seen dragoons doing elga? all i see is priests shamans and commandos.. oh yes they afk bubble with TR on for ninjas, so useful...)

 

I don't think that having both skills will impact pvp too much as long as spin it bear remains with a casting time. especially since nowadays you can perma spam all you want with lv10 hammer, shield strike, and x x w combo..

 

 

I have to agree to everything said. Please keep both skills without shared cooldown. 

Like the players above already stated correctly in PVE the shared cooldown is really bad.

 

(and to be honest I agree on the PVP part aswell - even though I'm not that much into it - but I know what is said here is true. Pallys  already are able to ground lock with shared cooldown, I saw it myself.)

 

 

EDIT:

 

But keep "spin it bear" as is now, as summon, not as instant. Cause it's correct, that this skill is the real deal. Or better was........no need for that to return.

Thank you

Edited by Fliederduft78, 01 May 2015 - 11:10 AM.

[sean718]

you can add the pefect seal too. 

 

Block any damage from the enemy. that not true at all first of all it not blocking the damage it not showing at all but elemental damage still do damage.

 

The description on this skill needs some work. Perfect seal does not "block" damage. It changes the values of physical damage and magical damage to 0. Any damage that does 0 damage will not show up as a value on your screen. 

 

As for the elemental damage not being reduced to 0 as well, I don't know if this was intentional when we received the elements patch, but it does render the skills useless in pvp.

[Coolsam]

The description on this skill needs some work. Perfect seal does not "block" damage. It changes the values of physical damage and magical damage to 0. Any damage that does 0 damage will not show up as a value on your screen.

As for the elemental damage not being reduced to 0 as well, I don't know if this was intentional when we received the elements patch, but it does render the skills useless in pvp.

Elements always had that bypass of a lot of skills. I had first discovered it essentially a week after The dungeons release when I had bypassed April Fools skill and hit 100 damage vs 1 damage Thanks to 1-2 attack cards.

I said; If it was easier to stack it'd be a problem, but right now it wasn't as bad.

Then they made elements easier to stack...

[sean718]

Elements always had that bypass of a lot of skills. I had first discovered it essentially a week after The dungeons release when I had bypassed April Fools skill and hit 100 damage vs 1 damage Thanks to 1-2 attack cards.

I said; If it was easier to stack it'd be a problem, but right now it wasn't as bad.

Then they made elements easier to stack...

 

Don't know about it being easier to stack since the farming alone is ridiculous.

 

But this is why CD caps should be raised on certain classes. It is already uneven. Some classes have 400% some 300%. Those classes that do not have the ability to take advantage of elements should have some dps increase even if a little. 

 

With Element attack vs element resist. Let's just say that a full resist gear will make 9k element attack look like normal damage (not crits). So, those of you who can't take advantage of element attack, stacking resistance would be your obvious choice in builds. 

[zirothos]

maybe we can look about all ultimate skill damage ratio, they should be all equal in damage and right now they are not.

 

Edited by zirothos, 01 May 2015 - 11:34 AM.

[Coolsam]

Don't know about it being easier to stack since the farming alone is ridiculous.

But this is why CD caps should be raised on certain classes. It is already uneven. Some classes have 400% some 300%. Those classes that do not have the ability to take advantage of elements should have some dps increase even if a little.

With Element attack vs element resist. Let's just say that a full resist gear will make 9k element attack look like normal damage (not crits). So, those of you who can't take advantage of element attack, stacking resistance would be your obvious choice in builds.

With the update, the dungeon became much shorter in length and easier to spam. Also, the average player runs 4-5 star attacks and/or the 3 piece level 60 accessories. Which with a +20 weapon is a lot higher than before (Highest seen was less than 500. Now it's 1500-3000+.)

[noxis]

With the update, the dungeon became much shorter in length and easier to spam. Also, the average player runs 4-5 star attacks and/or the 3 piece level 60 accessories. Which with a +20 weapon is a lot higher than before (Highest seen was less than 500. Now it's 1500-3000+.)

 

this might be due to the fact that there were a lot less farmers back in the day. now, virtually everyone and their moms are farming. not to mention, you can buy everything you basically need in the market from farmers.

 

but even 3k element attack at end game gear with POS armor is nothing with the proper resist stacking behind it. i've seen 6k element attack get reduced to 600s. 

[Coolsam]

this might be due to the fact that there were a lot less farmers back in the day. now, virtually everyone and their moms are farming. not to mention, you can buy everything you basically need in the market from farmers.

but even 3k element attack at end game gear with POS armor is nothing with the proper resist stacking behind it. i've seen 6k element attack get reduced to 600s.

The dungeon had less farmers back then because the dungeon was a maze and unless you went the shortest route, took ages to farm. The rewards were lackluster, often filled with normal gear that you sell to merchants, and not as many people did the professions to get the socket hammers (2nd slot hammers actually costed a lot back then.)

And elements has no real info released. Players have done guess work at best as to how attack to resist ratios work so that 6000>600 damage drop probably was possible through immense means.

[noxis]

The dungeon had less farmers back then because the dungeon was a maze and unless you went the shortest route, took ages to farm. The rewards were lackluster, often filled with normal gear that you sell to merchants, and not as many people did the professions to get the socket hammers (2nd slot hammers actually costed a lot back then.)

And elements has no real info released. Players have done guess work at best as to how attack to resist ratios work so that 6000>600 damage drop probably was possible through immense means.

 

the formula has been figured out a while ago. just not released to the general public. only a handful of individuals know of it.

[Coolsam]

the formula has been figured out a while ago. just not released to the general public. only a handful of individuals know of it.

Ech I could go on a rant about public and private info among players regarding important information about current PvP systems. It'd be pointless however. So a big whatever to that.

Basically my only qualm with this update, was lack of a discussion leading to this. Yes Popcorn and the WarpPortal staff will consider it regarding future updates but if and when development companies change we'd need a long period for this that doesn't lead to a disappointment.

[Fliederduft78]

There was no lack of discussion regarding the latest fixes at all. It's an ongoing discussion since the skill "nerfs" - yes I call them that way, cause most of them were very poorly thought about and unnecessary (community opinion)- as they found their way into the game with galaxia. Read the forum, there were lots of people complaining about the fixed things, they now after over a year finally are pleased. Read the trade chat in game, or the regular chats in the game - lots and lots of previously very unhappy players are now finally happy. 

Sure, like always : Haters gonna hate, no matter how hard you try or what you do. 

 

In my opinion Poppie and the staff have done great so far, with all the hard work and fixes they did to the game. I appreciate every single one of them to the fullest. Thank you very much for these. 

Just take it cool - Sam. 

 

Just kidding, now serious.

You simply can't please everyone, that's how life goes. 

 

 

Edit:

 

One thing I agree completely on is :

 

we don't need more devs that are devs for the game but have no clue what they are doing. because they never bothered to  put a foot into the game and to play (test) it as a normal regular player without any op GM equip and such. .....I think all of us agree on this, no matter from which server we found our way here.

But I'm about sure Poppie will be able to give us players a voice (to "pass on" our voice to the producer and staff). So there are good chances we do not run into the "good old dev mess" again.

Edited by Fliederduft78, 01 May 2015 - 12:50 PM.

[ScrambledCraig]

Might as well go all the way back to pre nerf

[sigeel]

off topic, but did anyone else notice Hunter quests giving significantly less amount of exp. from lets say 7th - 10th quest it would usually give large amounts like it says on the quest exp x7- exp x10 for completing them. I was playing on a lvl 30 hoping to get to lvl 35 at least with all the x3 exp going on.

 

What i got for finishing those quests was a miserable 3-10%   

[Brian26]

NOW TIME TO CHANGE STATS BACK! <3

[flubsy]

My suggested changes from what I know about the classes

 

 

• Remove non-flinch status for chain combo for all classes

- As some chain combos are better than others, the non-flinch/super armor status makes certain classes fairly broken.  

 

• Paladin
  • remove barricade restriction in pvp/bsq
  • Increase cool down of xcut to 10s and broom to 8s
  • Decrease casting time for spin it bear
  • Increase cool down of Chain shield to 10s
  • Increase cool down of mega storm blade to 8s
  • Increase CDMG cap to 350%

- Since paladin can't use TR in bsq and supposedly pvp (even though they can in pvp) I believe these changes to their cd/casting times are appropriate though it cannot be certain without some tests being done.  I'm completely ok with broom and xcut not sharing the same cd if things like this are implemented.  One full set of chaos or glorious gives them over the cdmg limit, I never understood that.

 

 

• Myrmidon
  • Change stumblebum to 100% stun rate with debuffs of Aim implemented
  • No flinch status to Magnum Break, Deathbound, Wyvern
  • Decrease cool down of gust slash to 8s

As a myrmidon I can literally run around for 2-3 seconds not being able to use any moves because they've been cancelled by an attack or Ive already used all of them to no avail.  Either decreasing the cd or giving no flinch status could remedy this situation.  Plus they have one of the lowest dps in the game even though their burst dmg is high.

 

• Invoker
  • Double Shot becomes a passive
  • Lightning Magnet cooldown 20 seconds

- Invokers I am ok with as long as the chain combo doesn't give them super armor/no flinch.  I feel like that super armor/no flinch is what makes them ridiculously strong along with their high dps.  With the above comment increased cdmg for priests, I don't think it is needed as it is already quite high.

 

• Archers
  • increase Shootdown cool down to 6s

- Basically daggers in the air with more dmg.  I think it'd be better with a higher cd as it feels broken people just running around just doing shoot down every second they get.

 

• Sentinal
  • Change untouchable duration to 10s instead of 1s
  • Increase cdmg cap to 400%

- Untouchable doesn't make sense with a 1s duration when it was originally 10.  CDMG cap increase as their class was mainly known for their cdmg and now they do less than destroyers.  

 

• Destroyer
  • Change sniping cool down to 15s
  • decrease max cdmg to 350%

- Same reason as shoot down and their dps is already quite high with random shot.  Also the same reasoning applies to why the cdmg cap is lowered.

• Ninja
  • Remove burrow restriction in pvp/bsq
  • increase cdmg cap to 400%

- Don't know why this restriction is in place when the cool down is already quite long.  This will also give use to the spikes.  Increasing the cdmg cap since 1 set bonus basically makes them go over the 300% limit which made no sense to me as well.

 

 

These are my suggestions so far from my experience from pvp/bsq.  I think most of them make sense.  Even if it is unbalanced it's not completely tipped to one side or another imo like it is now.  I pvp quite a bit and do a lot of in guild pvps.  I can't really say much for twins, summoners as their amount of skills they can use and how broken their block/dps is seems a bit unfixable.  Maybe for twins, having the twin able to die while using a skill to resummon them would be great, but not sure if that's even possible.  Summoners could have better summon buffs or casting skills so they can actually use summons/casts in pvp instead of just pew pew all day.  

 

The max stat changes will probably have to be thought out more before I post something about them and also have more discussions about other classes in general before posting about them.  This is just my quick opinion based on what I've seen and what I know from my guild discussions.  Possibly increasing the evade cap would help quite a bit as well for many classes as Aim/Eva seems completely useless for the most part. 

 

Anyways have fun and tear my list apart.