61 replies to this topic

[Xellie]

Hi xellie =D

 

hi bye *off for lunch*
 

[Campitor]

We are open please play.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

We are open please play.

 

tyvm Campy!

 

[Gn1ydnu]

Which pvp rooms should get an announcer?

Just need it for Izlude.

[isamu999]

@Oda

I love how no one else said anything about challenge dungeon! I would definitely like to see some items put in so I can start doing challenge dungeon. Oda, the question is are the mobs going to stay the same difficulty or will you change them to something easier/harder? If the mobs remain the same difficulty I'd like to see some nice consumables in there at 100% drop rate, seeing how every single one of those mobs is an MVP in itself. The mobs in challenge dungeon currently have roughly 400k life, like 180 ish aspd? and hit insanely hard on top of there being an insane quantity of them in the dungeon itself. If it remained the same difficulty I'd like to see multiple ygg berries drop from mobs (though I'm sure a lot of people would not like to see this) but preferrably I'd like to go back to killing down there on my LK mobbing and getting some decent rewards (ygg seeds maybe?)

 

Items I'd like to see in challenge dungeon:

Yggdrasilberry

Yggdrasil Seeds

Empty Bottle Boxes (Gives bundle of empty bottles)

Ranked Blue Potion Box (Gives bundle of ranked quality blue potions, perhaps kinda like the kafra shop box?)

Ranked White Potion Box (Gives bundle of ranked quality white potions, perhaps kinda like the kafra shop box?)

Poison Bottles

Guild Supply Boxes

Elunium Box (Gives bundle of elunium)

Oridecon Box (Gives bundle of oridecon)

Speed Potion Box (Gives bundle of speed potions)

Periwinkle Boxes

Old Card Album (lower drop rates?)

Ancient Card Album (lower drop rates?)

Jewelry Box (lower drop rate?)

Potatoes

 

Any of these are suitable!

 

P.S - Haters gonna hate. Mad cus bad or bad cus mad?

Edited by isamu999, 27 May 2015 - 05:45 AM.

[Xellie]

Minus ACA/OCA that sounds pretty good! Perhaps the mobs should have a card rate chance (legit card rate) to drop hats like EMH, MRH, SC, etc.

[Rang]

Challenger Dungeon: High Risk, High Reward.

 

Just make it worth our while and put the darn thing in already.

 

Side note: Is it possible to make mobs drop BG Badges? That might be pretty neat (in appropriate quantities, of course).

[Themes]

Seeing as you probably didnt read it here's what I linked to in my post earlier from when Challenge Dungeons went up:

 

AI isnt going to be enough to make it something people want to visit, it'll help but there's no reason for them to go there. Neither the experience or drops are relevant. I'm not sure what you have planned for AI or drops eventually. But here's what I'd do for a 5 minute fix:

 

Worms AI: http://db.irowiki.or...ter-skill/1641/

Bug AI: http://db.irowiki.or...ter-skill/1640/

 

Exactly the same as the monsters stats they're copied from, kind of scary and pretty frightening in the numbers in the dungeon currently.

 

Drops I'd add GSBs at a rate 1/2 (possibly 1/4) the drop rate of boxes from monsters in Bio3. Put Seeds in at a slightly lower rate than that, maybe 3/4 (or 3/5 maybe?) what you set the GSBs at. 

 

Exp I'd probably set them to the same values as the non-99 versions of the two monsters these are modelled off (~100k base/job).

 

As long as the monster AI is in and working they'll be scary enough to be a challenge for players but also still drop useful items at a rate significantly low enough that while you're better off going to Bio3 or GD to farm boxes, this provides a weird alternative. If the rates are still too high by peoples standards they can be adjusted, but it's hard to know what the drop rates actually are so I cant really be more specific. This would be a very simple placeholder and give people a reason to go visit the dungeon for an hour or two to check it out before you guys give it a proper makeover.

 

Monster skills *need* to happen if you're going to be as generous with rewards as what isamu is suggesting. Right now they're basically Bio3 99 SinX/LKs with no skills. They're not actually that tough just hit hard/fast.

 

If I get the chance I may record some footage of how dumb it is right now, especially if you're going to add so many items at higher drop chances.

 

I am all for adding rewarding things to them though, there's currently 3 "trash" monsters and one MVP in there, the two worms both have identical stats (99 SinX) you could probably swap one of them to something else to add more variation especially when you consider that the LK bug monster is passive. I like the idea of adding a turnin quest that rewards some tokens you can spend on the currently unavailable New World gear, you can use it as a trial run for the KVM introduction that is currently shelved.

 

Would people rather see it as something that they can solo/duo (with difficulty) or something you absolutely have to do with a small group?

 

Would you rather it focused on experience or drops or dont care and just want something fun to do?

 

Undying you're one of the people who regularly asks for more challenging content, what skills/abilities would you like to see and how hard do you want or expect it to be?

 

Edit: As for BG badges, they're account bound so it's probably better to award those in a similar fashion to the proposed tokens for New World stuff via a killcount or something.

Edited by Themes, 27 May 2015 - 11:39 AM.

[Rang]

 

KVM introduction

 

No.

[Gn1ydnu]

Undying you're one of the people who regularly asks for more challenging content, what skills/abilities would you like to see and how hard do you want or expect it to be?

I would like hard and challenging and (indirectly) forced party play. However, that does mean that the rewards have to be a good incentive. If rewards are crap then I'll go for 30 min and be like "ok been there done that, ezpz". I would like very challenging and rewarding.

Here is one of the many suggestions I made (edited my own quote for relivence. Not the time and place for the other point in the quote which is removed).

 

To elaborate on this idea... New dung or some sort of new PVM environment. Have first 2 maps of the new "pvm area" be fully normal with challenging mobs that require party play and make a TI system for it. Have the 3rd and final map of this new area disable all consumables, ice wall, and eske. Put in a very challenging MVP. Make it so that the MVP only spawns once every 24 hours. MVP drops include a Green Twinblade (wind property, 3 slots, 1 hand sword, 130 ATK) and a Brown Twinblade (earth property, 3 slots, 1 hand sword, 120 ATK)...

Green Twinblade drop at 10%
Brown Twinblade drop at 10%
ACA drop at 50%

Just to clarify on this idea. I would not put it into the Kafra Shop, ever. I would make it through a serious challenging thing in PVM with a MVP at a VERY LONG re spawn timer.

More clarification... I understand that people might have strong feelings about adding in "new" gear to the game. The reality of this all would be this... Classic has a predetermined "end" for updates, gears, and new content. Once we hit the point that we are caught up to right before Renewal hit, then there will be nothing else to do in game. New gears will still come into the game, but only through the Kafra Shop. If we did a revised end game make over (basically creating our own updates/content instead of simply ending when Renewal hit) it would allow the server to live longer. I understand that this wouldn't be "vanilla". My argument towards that opinion is nothing about Classic is vanilla and all prerenewal "vanilla" servers have a predetermined end to the game. I wouldn't want Classic to hit the "end" and give us nothing left to do besides farm gods, farm supplies, and simply WoE. What we could do is create a new Update (if its even possible). Make this new area very hard. Hell, you could even make Bio 4 here (would be so much fun!) and then add in a Classic version of "bounty boards" for Bio 4 so that there is some sort of TI and encouragement for partying. I am just thinking of options to A. give us new gear that isn't obtainable through ONLY the kafra shop, B. give us something to do besides farm gods, farm supplies, and simply WoE, C. Give us something to provide more MVP comp and D. give us something challenging in relations to PVM. Like if the idea for new maps above go into effect, I would want it super hard. No easy mode.

The above idea is for more of a perm dung instead of a rotating challenge dung.

Regardless, I think a new dung or the challange dung should have a TI NPC to help encourage party play.

Basically, I'd want it to be setup so that a LK can't solo it, party play is a must, TI for exp, another TI for GSB (can only do gsb or exp one, no double dipping), 1 min cooldown on reentering the map (avoid portal fist cheese), and increase rewards. For example the last challenge dung is soloable on a level 9x agi character with great rewards (also easy farm on lk). This dung is drastically harder with very crappy rewards. I went and participated for the novelty of it, but will not spend much time there due to lack of meaning. Example of old is below



Here are some options...

Option 1, redo the monsters and make them DRASTICALLY easier. Make sure there is a mix of ranged, melee, and magic skills (thinking meteor storm for stun). Make the dung a "no consumable" zone. Make sure there is like a 2~3 min cooldown that starts once you enter to reenter and suggestions from above (TI npcs ect). The rewards again have to be good since this will brute force make party play happen to be effecient.

Option 2, drastically increase rewards of current challenge dung to encourage party play. I think skills added should include stun type skills (meteor storm) or other disabling skills (stone curse, freeze).

idk just some food for thought. As for specific skills Themes, I am unsure.

Edit: I would also recommend making monsters demihuman, maybe include 1 demon (like bio 3) to mess with people's hide/cloak. This is part of the reason why I would love to see bio 4 classic edition. For me, I can get any gear, God, or mvp to use in the game to go there (with extremely few exceptions). Demihuman requires basic gear that players of all types should have/will need to participate with other "end game" activities. So this would allow higher end (established players) to participate in the dung as well as mid rate (players who are working towards being established) to participate as well.

 

Let me define what is challenging to me. Challenging does not mean "challenge my gears". To some extent that holds true regardless. High end gears should only increase efficiency of participating. I want to be challenged in my ability to play as a group. I want to have my party be challenged on working together. This is part of the reason why I came up with a "no consumable mode" idea, although monsters would have to be adjusted and more weak then currently to work. A variety of monsters (melee, ranged, magic ect) adds a level of difficulty and adjustment for the party. Putting in super strong monsters alone does nothing. 

 

I doubt anybody would agree with me about the no consumable mode, I just see it as a much higher team oriented play. It would be about properly negating damage (requires and rewards good support players) instead of just holding down a macro to pot. It would require smart decision making instead of being 100% gear dependent and consumable dependent. It would give an opportunity for a variety of support characters to get into parties. It would indirectly FORCE party play. As a 10+ year soloist, I can tell you party play = fun. Might not be the most effective, but it is definitely the funnest and most memorable things of the game. (RIP bio 3 )

Edited by Gn1ydnu, 27 May 2015 - 03:06 PM.

[TheSputnik]

I would like hard and challenging and (indirectly) forced party play. However, that does mean that the rewards have to be a good incentive. If rewards are crap then I'll go for 30 min and be like "ok been there done that, ezpz". I would like very challenging and rewarding.

Here is one of the many suggestions I made (edited my own quote for relivence. Not the time and place for the other point in the quote which is removed).

 

The above idea is for more of a perm dung instead of a rotating challenge dung.

Regardless, I think a new dung or the challange dung should have a TI NPC to help encourage party play.

Basically, I'd want it to be setup so that a LK can't solo it, party play is a must, TI for exp, another TI for GSB (can only do gsb or exp one, no double dipping), 1 min cooldown on reentering the map (avoid portal fist cheese), and increase rewards. For example the last challenge dung is soloable on a level 9x agi character with great rewards (also easy farm on lk). This dung is drastically harder with very crappy rewards. I went and participated for the novelty of it, but will not spend much time there due to lack of meaning. Example of old is below



Here are some options...

Option 1, redo the monsters and make them DRASTICALLY easier. Make sure there is a mix of ranged, melee, and magic skills (thinking meteor storm for stun). Make the dung a "no consumable" zone. Make sure there is like a 2~3 min cooldown that starts once you enter to reenter and suggestions from above (TI npcs ect). The rewards again have to be good since this will brute force make party play happen to be effecient.

Option 2, drastically increase rewards of current challenge dung to encourage party play. I think skills added should include stun type skills (meteor storm) or other disabling skills (stone curse, freeze).

idk just some food for thought. As for specific skills Themes, I am unsure.

Edit: I would also recommend making monsters demihuman, maybe include 1 demon (like bio 3) to mess with people's hide/cloak. This is part of the reason why I would love to see bio 4 classic edition. For me, I can get any gear, God, or mvp to use in the game to go there (with extremely few exceptions). Demihuman requires basic gear that players of all types should have/will need to participate with other "end game" activities. So this would allow higher end (established players) to participate in the dung as well as mid rate (players who are working towards being established) to participate as well.

 

Let me define what is challenging to me. Challenging does not mean "challenge my gears". To some extent that holds true regardless. High end gears should only increase efficiency of participating. I want to be challenged in my ability to play as a group. I want to have my party be challenged on working together. This is part of the reason why I came up with a "no consumable mode" idea, although monsters would have to be adjusted and more weak then currently to work. A variety of monsters (melee, ranged, magic ect) adds a level of difficulty and adjustment for the party. Putting in super strong monsters alone does nothing. 

 

I doubt anybody would agree with me about the no consumable mode, I just see it as a much higher team oriented play. It would be about properly negating damage (requires and rewards good support players) instead of just holding down a macro to pot. It would require smart decision making instead of being 100% gear dependent and consumable dependent. It would give an opportunity for a variety of support characters to get into parties. It would indirectly FORCE party play. As a 10+ year soloist, I can tell you party play = fun. Might not be the most effective, but it is definitely the funnest and most memorable things of the game. (RIP bio 3 )

smart.

[kruim21]

one of my charactors dced when i gonna enter Nidhoggurs dungeon. this account can not log in now but other charactors in same account works well. please fix this bug.i am not the only one and this is not the first time.

[DarkGazer]

one of my charactors dced when i gonna enter Nidhoggurs dungeon. this account can not log in now but other charactors in same account works well. please fix this bug.i am not the only one and this is not the first time.

 

Post your details on this link: http://forums.warppo...n/#entry2163799

[Themes]

Yeah I agree with a lot of what you're saying Undying. I think no consumable would actually be really fun, having to rely on support for 100% of your curse/silence/whatever else is awesome. However I think right now it may be better to aim for something a little simpler that people can get used to having the challenge dungeon as a thing to do. Theoretically if Hans list is accurate we could even create a few tiered dungeons, imaging having pre-trans, trans and hardcore challenge dungeons to choose from.

 

I think it'd be a good opportunity for us to investigate the turnins for exp or job exp or <item>. Assuming we add relevant monster skills it'd encourage moving parties meaning there's no real dead weight so people are bringing things that get played etc.

 

If you look at Bio3 for monster skills, we have 6 monsters. 1 ranged, 1 support/healer, 1 caster, 3 melee. Among them are two with high defense, 3 with high hit requirements, 4 demihuman, 2 demon and a wide range of elements. There's a couple of defense piercing neutral attacks to discourage mental strength mobbing as well as freeze from Wizards to offset GR defaulting etc. There's a lot going on with spawns meaning you can sit in one spot and fairly safely farm one of two types with the occasional stray or stay somewhere neutral and pull things towards you.

 

Right now we've got 3 trash monsters to outfit (gear and drops).

 

Two of them are these: http://db.irowiki.or...ster-info/1641/

One of them is this: http://db.irowiki.or...ster-info/1640/

 

In terms of stats, they're all boss/demi and those elements with the same HP. It may pay to turn one of the SinX guys into something else, they have a very slightly smaller model? But it's fairly hard to tell them apart right now. But we'd really need the variation IMO, we dont need to make it Biolabs 2.0 but just having two different monster types is really not a proper dungeon.

 

If you wanted to add something ranged you could find something that fits with the theme and use that (maybe a Nepenthes?).

 

As for skills I'd like to see some of these types of things:

• AoE status effects, silence/stun/curse/sleep
• Elemental attacks, either single target or something like magnum break to encourage armor swapping
• Defense ignoring skills, Spiral Pierce, Critical Slash, discourage endless mobbing with mental strength
• Ranged attacks to discourage infinite tanking via Safety Wall
• Melee attacks ^ except Pneuma
• AoE abilities, magic like SG/LoV/Heavens Drive or something like Fire Breath which requires monster positioning to avoid the damage even Magnetic Earth could really ruin someone tanking something in SW/Pneuma or something mildly annoying like an Evil Land
• Position modification skills, Pulse Strike, Spear Stab, Storm Gust, Arrow Shower, Fiberlock (I particularly like pulse strike because it works differently in melee/ranged)
• Weapon/armor divest/breaking, I'd lean heavily towards short divests but breaking if you want to make smiths feel useful if there's no Biochem (lol) but Bomb or Acid Terror are okay too
• Things with cast times, Nidhogg has a long cast time full heal, we're just killing lots of small stuff, but I think we can make monsters emote when they cast something specific right? Give them the ability to charge up something scary that requires players to react (run away, spell break, hide in sw/pneuma, get ready to dispel or swap to <gear>) and if they dont manage to get it make it hurt hard enough to severely hurt the party. This could be a low level earthquake (like the golem incarnation) or a suicide effect.
• Do different things at different health percentages, you could give things larger amounts of HP and then soon as they start to get below some value have them unlock some scary abilities discouraging huge amounts of mobbing and encouraging you to single target things
• Traps these are awkward because sometimes they bug out and you just cant see them, but having a very scary Fire Pillar or any of the Hunter traps that you could potentially walk/get knocked into are pretty amazing
• Skill disabling, we've done the icewall/eske thing to death, why not disable assumptio 

Now obviously you dont really want to use all of these, they're just some ideas of the sorts of gameplay elements we could combine together to make some interesting content with. You would want to make sure that any Challenge Dungeon ticked off maybe 7-8 things off that list? While also meeting some kind of experience/loot reward based on difficulty.

 

It's hard to talk about specific drop rates for some things because with all our server rates/vip/gum and not knowing the current drop rates of something like GSB we cant really give specifics. But looking at it this way, if you have 5 players doing the Challenge Dungeon who can alone farm up x GSBs an hour. Do you reward them with loot equivalent to x*5? Do you give them extra experience to compensate for a smaller reward? Do you give each player an option from a turnin quest they complete in the hour? There'll obviously be more interest from people who are not that interested in mindlessly farming as group stuff is way more fun, but where do you set the bar?

 

Thats a lot of words so I'm going to stop now, but those are the sorts of things I think about when I look at the Challenge Dungeon and what we can do to make it more fun/harder/something anyone would want to visit.

 

Edit: added in some more things

 

Edited by Themes, 28 May 2015 - 11:36 AM.

[Gn1ydnu]

Unfortunately at work on phone so can't put many words or thoughts into my post atm, I will revisit later.

Love the skill ideas, especially having the skills change based on current hp %.

I would imagine that this would be a more "fun" way for guilds to participate in hunting gsb, other consumbles, or exp. gsb reward (even optional with a ti) could be great to motivate guilds to farming together, instead of simply rotating through solo lk play in gd. It would also strengthen the guilds playing ability. Could be an alternative to id3/Dragons and very rewarding for support characters.

I also really like the idea of having multiple dungs (maybe in the future?). Cool idea.

The potential for interesting/fun/rewarding things is very huge! Too bad we don't have a test area to test out the maps and recommend specific tweeeks and modifications.

More later.

[Themes]

I would imagine that this would be a more "fun" way for guilds to participate in hunting gsb, other consumbles, or exp. gsb reward (even optional with a ti) could be great to motivate guilds to farming together, instead of simply rotating through solo lk play in gd. It would also strengthen the guilds playing ability. Could be an alternative to id3/Dragons and very rewarding for support characters.

I also really like the idea of having multiple dungs (maybe in the future?). Cool idea.

The potential for interesting/fun/rewarding things is very huge! Too bad we don't have a test area to test out the maps and recommend specific tweeeks and modifications.

More later.

 

I think the first statement is the key here. Solo LK farming is a boring but absolutely necessary evil right now. It's better than doing the stuff individually obviously, but its pretty lonely sometimes. Right now we dont have to make the hardest dungeon the players have ever seen, but we can come up with a challenging place for people to visit that requires teamwork and awards them with things that let them continue to play the game without requiring them to sacrifice on the time they feel obligated to spend farming supplies.

 

I believe the GMs did/do have a Classic Sakray server running its just not accessible from outside their network. Got posted about here for anyone curious.

[maelstorm123]

Can we please get fire sale npc on Classic? I read topics that Renewal has one right now. It would be really nice since so many headgears are not even findable for newbies and even they can find someone that sells it, the zeny prices are crazy. I know some people who would like to spend some money for nice stuff but the current pack is not really worth it. Can you make this as a nice summer event? Since last two weeks the server have been acting all weirdly and going down nearly every day. Maybe you can compensate with such thing? What is the reason you don't even consider doing it in Classic anyway? If you can include a pack with Skull Cap it would be awesome. Its very op and nice for leveling in id3 right now!

[Psicratus]

Can we please get fire sale npc on Classic? I read topics that Renewal has one right now. It would be really nice since so many headgears are not even findable for newbies and even they can find someone that sells it, the zeny prices are crazy. I know some people who would like to spend some money for nice stuff but the current pack is not really worth it. Can you make this as a nice summer event? Since last two weeks the server have been acting all weirdly and going down nearly every day. Maybe you can compensate with such thing? What is the reason you don't even consider doing it in Classic anyway? If you can include a pack with Skull Cap it would be awesome. Its very op and nice for leveling in id3 right now!

Yeah, getting a fire sale would be also great for taking some zeny out of the server, wich is ridiculously inflated for one with such a tiny userbase. I still have my thoughts on where all that zeny come from, having a small comunity, of wich very few do zeny directed PvM(wich is very different of gear directed), and bots used to be banned kinda effectively on iRO, classic is not infested like other servers.

I also agree on having some PvM equipments available on packs, suggested the CoD only with that intention, but it has been proved it wouldn't be good for WoE. Maybe skull cap, maybe some until now unavailable headgears with races resistance/increased damage would be awesome.

Edited by Psicratus, 29 May 2015 - 06:56 AM.

[Xellie]

Yeah, getting a fire sale would be also great for taking some zeny out of the server, wich is ridiculously inflated for one with such a tiny userbase. I still have my thoughts on where all that zeny come from, having a small comunity, of wich very few do zeny directed PvM(wich is very different of gear directed), and bots used to be banned kinda effectively on iRO, classic is not infested like other servers.

I also agree on having some PvM equipments available on packs, suggested the CoD only with that intention, but it has been proved it wouldn't be good for WoE. Maybe skull cap, maybe some until now unavailable headgears with races resistance/increased damage would be awesome.

 

I can OC about 500m worth of castle loot right now from the past 3 weeks, yell at the GM team about economy.
 

[Ambur]

I can OC about 500m worth of castle loot right now from the past 3 weeks, yell at the GM team about economy.
 

That's more of an issue with the WoE scene. The economy is bad due to the low population overall.

 

Kinda sucks finding somethings / selling certain things.

Edited by Ambur, 29 May 2015 - 07:31 AM.

[Necrohealiac]

Yeah, getting a fire sale would be also great for taking some zeny out of the server, wich is ridiculously inflated for one with such a tiny userbase.

how would a firesale take zeny out of circulation? can you purchase firesale boxes with in-game zeny on classic?

[Xellie]

Well I would say we could use thors as a good zeny sink but then pumpkin hats...................... PUT THOSE PITCH FORKS AWAY

[Psicratus]

how would a firesale take zeny out of circulation? can you purchase firesale boxes with in-game zeny on classic?

lol I thought fire sale was a temporary NPC selling some packs/different or temporary equips for zeny; now i've seen what it is, disconsider my whole point. 

Edited by Psicratus, 29 May 2015 - 10:28 AM.

[Necrohealiac]

yeah firesale is a misnomer to begin with; when I first saw it I was expecting deep discounts "EVERYTHING MUST GO" kind of sale

[Gn1ydnu]

Just a marketing ploy. It's not bad if there are profitable boxes or gears you need/missed.