219 replies to this topic

[checksome]

This is probably the best option WarpPortal can do with what they're limited to be able to do for Summoners. Considering what skills get reflected are a very broad list and the summons take PvE damage and are very often in the AoE of our skills. No one can really complain about no reflect as they still have many other benefits for keeping summons out like Cast Time reduction, Dark Knight's high damage, Golgon's crowd-control, ability to heal the summons, etc.

 

+! to this.

 

 

- The Spirit Counter attack skill at lvl 5 can insta kill skill type class even though it will not affect the x spam damage, As a summoner I find it unfair.

[flubsy]

 

Because you know and understand that  the skill is OP and taking advantage of it. Troll.

 

Or I learned how to pvp against it instead of complaining about it.  As I play other classes to better understand how to counter them.  April Pool, Healing, Casting Skills that do not reflect dmg, Stuns, knowing when to hit and not hit.  As a former fighting game player, no johns.  It's never about asking for patches but evolving as a player and using what you know and how to use it to your advantage.  If you know who I am, I do not play summoner for pvp.  

 

This is why certain players will always be better than others in pvp.  They don't complain but get better.  

Edited by flubsy, 06 September 2015 - 07:49 PM.

[checksome]

Or I learned how to pvp against it instead of complaining about it.  As I play other classes to better understand how to counter them.  April Pool, Healing, Casting Skills that do not reflect dmg, Stuns, knowing when to hit and not hit.  As a former fighting game player, no johns.  It's never about asking for patches but evolving as a player and using what you know and how to use it to your advantage.  If you know who I am, I do not play summoner for pvp.  

 

This is why certain players will always be better than others in pvp.  They don't complain but get better.  

 

  now you're saying that you are not playing summoner for pvp. So what's the point in depending the summoner if you don't actually understand the true power of revenge. I know that you are playing overlord and if you have the chance to stacked your 81+ overlord let me know.

 

- please don't call people stupid in forum while you're in game.

-This thread is for class balancing and as a summoner it's an advantage for me if they don't block the revenge but still I suggest to block it because I know in myself that this skill is quite op.

- Please don't afk in pow center too much and again don't call people stupid in forum while you're in game. LOL.

- I still love you don't worry.

[Coolsam]

Or I learned how to pvp against it instead of complaining about it.  As I play other classes to better understand how to counter them.  April Pool, Healing, Casting Skills that do not reflect dmg, Stuns, knowing when to hit and not hit.  As a former fighting game player, no johns.  It's never about asking for patches but evolving as a player and using what you know and how to use it to your advantage.  If you know who I am, I do not play summoner for pvp.  

 

This is why certain players will always be better than others in pvp.  They don't complain but get better.  

 

While I understand that yes you can learn class skill mechanics, ranges, cooldowns, etc. to get a better understanding of when to do this or that, in the case of Spirit Counter-attack, some classes literally are useless against it and will likely insta-die before they can pull more than a few skills.

 

Example; Sorcerer's entire man source of damage are AoE spells that nearly all proc the reflect damage. Unless the Sorcerer is a huge tank he'll likely wipe half his HP-bar using one Fire Symbol.

Example #2; Overlord's main combo tends to proc frequent reflects.

 

Players have attempted to playing around the reflect, but Summoners have so much already that basically makes damage reflection a pointless add-on. They already insta-kill stun/flinch-lock w/ Rolling Stone+Smar Shot Element X-spam, Dark Knight already easily penetrates 30k defense and high PDD, they already have the easiest stun chain combos to perform (Even easier than high atk-spd X>Down+Z>Z for archers), why keep damage reflection when a class can 100-0 someone in under 10 seconds regardless of resistance/hp?

[flubsy]

it's my opinion sorry you don't like it.

 

Let me rephrase, I don't main summoner for pvp, but I played enough pvp matches to understand how it works to find ways around it.\

 

pretty sure there are haters everywhere anyways don't take it so personally.

[checksome]

While I understand that yes you can learn class skill mechanics, ranges, cooldowns, etc. to get a better understanding of when to do this or that, in the case of Spirit Counter-attack, some classes literally are useless against it and will likely insta-die before they can pull more than a few skills.

 

Example; Sorcerer's entire man source of damage are AoE spells that nearly all proc the reflect damage. Unless the Sorcerer is a huge tank he'll likely wipe half his HP-bar using one Fire Symbol.

Example #2; Overlord's main combo tends to proc frequent reflects.

 

Players have attempted to playing around the reflect, but Summoners have so much already that basically makes damage reflection a pointless add-on. They already insta-kill stun/flinch-lock w/ Rolling Stone+Smar Shot Element X-spam, Dark Knight already easily penetrates 30k defense and high PDD, they already have the easiest stun chain combos to perform (Even easier than high atk-spd X>Down+Z>Z for archers), why keep damage reflection when a class can 100-0 someone in under 10 seconds regardless of resistance/hp?

 

Well said.

 

it's my opinion sorry you don't like it.

 

Let me rephrase, I don't main summoner for pvp, but I played enough pvp matches to understand how it works to find ways around it.\

 

pretty sure there are haters everywhere anyways don't take it so personally.

 

It's alright. I'm just here to give my opinions.

[flubsy]

yes  - Blocking Rebound (Twin) from BSQ/EW 

yes  - Increasing the cooldown of Magnet (Invoker) by 3 seconds (we think this has no big impact to PvE)

yes  - Blocking PowerWeave (Twin) from BSQ/EW

sure why not- Increasing the cooldown of Smart Shot (Summoner), so the cooldown is at least the same as the duration and setting casting time to instant

Is this necessary? - Blocking Instant Heal (Monk) from BSQ/EW (but keeping all other heal skills)

Increasing cooldown is good enough - Increasing the cooldown to 120 seconds of Emergency Exit (Priest) or blocking it from BSQ/EW

no - Blocking Exit (Bandit) from BSQ/EW because Shadow Walk and Burrow are blocked in PvP too

[SoulSight]

.

Edited by SoulSight, 07 September 2015 - 08:19 AM.

[SoulSight]

Spirit Counterattack works the same as Revenge (the description says) and I see pointless when they skill it.

 

 

It on works on melee class and i see rangers everywhere, melee classes "exist" rarely in bsq. I don't understand why they skill it or they have too many unwanted SP?

Edited by SoulSight, 07 September 2015 - 08:18 AM.

[Homurasan]

Paladin's Revenge reflects damage to the attacker as long as they are within a certain range. For example, hitting an Emblem of fire (Mage), from point blank to a few steps away, will likely trigger it.

Probably a close range Shootdown, Gatling rush, Falcon etc. would do the same.

[SoulSight]

Paladin's Revenge reflects damage to the attacker as long as they are within a certain range. For example, hitting an Emblem of fire (Mage), from point blank to a few steps away, will likely trigger it.

Probably a close range Shootdown, Gatling rush, Falcon etc. would do the same.

 

No!

[Homurasan]

Yes. Tested on a frozen Dragoon, with a Sorcerer.

[SoulSight]

Sounds persuasive! When was the last time you did? Hopefully there is no change.

[Homurasan]

Two weeks ago maybe, as I was attending a BSQ.

[StormHaven]

Revenge and Spirit revenge both reflect wolf rush,blitz, falcon frenzy,traps,arrow shower,Tesla,AAS, and multi shot from what I remember testing. The problem is a lot of "ranged" skills share the exact same range as melee skills (wolf rush and cross cut ranges are more or less the same)

[SoulSight]

Revenge and Spirit revenge both reflect wolf rush,blitz, falcon frenzy,traps,arrow shower,Tesla,AAS, and multi shot from what I remember testing. The problem is a lot of "ranged" skills share the exact same range as melee skills (wolf rush and cross cut ranges are more or less the same)

So what do they mean by "close attack"?

[StormHaven]

So what do they mean by "close attack"?

 

Any special attack skill that shares the same range as what the Devs define as close range.

[Mizuro75]

So far we are thinking about following:
 
- Blocking Rebound (Twin) from BSQ/EW 
- Increasing the cooldown of Magnet (Invoker) by 3 seconds (we think this has no big impact to PvE)
- Blocking PowerWeave (Twin) from BSQ/EW
- Increasing the cooldown of Smart Shot (Summoner), so the cooldown is at least the same as the duration and setting casting time to instant
- Blocking Instant Heal (Monk) from BSQ/EW (but keeping all other heal skills)
- Increasing the cooldown to 120 seconds of Emergency Exit (Priest) or blocking it from BSQ/EW
- Blocking Exit (Bandit) from BSQ/EW because Shadow Walk and Burrow are blocked in PvP too
 
All these changes are not carved in stone yet. Opinions? We know especially the players of the affected classes may start to rage, but please see it from the point of view of the other classes which have no chance against some of these skills.

 

Rebound:
- it is a skill which resurrects you with 30% of the max. HP but the problem is you can cancel the animation so the 10 min CD doesn't start but even with a 10min CD it's just an unfair skill for PvP so it would be good if it's restricted
 
Magnet:
- nothing to add
 
Power Weave:
- one of the two block skills has to be banned from PvP, but tbh one has to stay.
- if Weaving or Power Weaving gets restricted is not that important since one has a longer duration but the other one the lower CD (my opinion)
 
Smart Shot:

-increasing smat shots cooldown has no point at all since everybody i know cancel this skill and wont get any cooldown at all
to prevent prople from canceling, you need to decrease the cast time to instant

 
Instant Heal:
- nothing to add (Slow Heal is another problem in my opinion)
 
Emergency Exit:
- blocking it would be the better solution
 
Exit:
- nothing to add
 
 
 
 
With this changes PvP would be way more (enough) balanced but there will be one problem: ATK Speed + Element ATK.
 
If the debuff of the invoker after several hits with x-Attack would affect every x-Attack and Element Damage too, it would be kinda balanced, since in my opinion the Element System is not the problem or imbalanced, it's the way it's used with ATK Speed and only stacking ATK and no resistance but that's another topic.

[SoulSight]

Spirit counterattack is blocked! Woohoo!

[flubsy]

instead of blocking and nerfing everything, can't we just buff everyone

 

That way everyone is strong and "fun" to play instead of everyone is weak and let's make everyone weaker.  At the rate we're going, everyone is gonna be hitting each other with sand and complaining about the dirt in their eyes.

[SoulSight]

It's still not official so let the time explain.

Edited by SoulSight, 11 September 2015 - 03:41 PM.

[Agitodesu]

Just a wild idea, What if every class were to be very op. This game would be much more amusing than every class being nerfed or fewer classes being op.

 

 

instead of blocking and nerfing everything, can't we just buff everyone

 

That way everyone is strong and "fun" to play instead of everyone is weak and let's make everyone weaker.  At the rate we're going, everyone is gonna be hitting each other with sand and complaining about the dirt in their eyes.

Booom

[SoulSight]

Flub, the origin Dragoon class was a nightmare already, you want buff? If you don't mean Dragoon then I follow directly the topic.
The emergency exit can't be fixed like everyone said (client).
Earth Master players are popular, which means that class is op, nefting is obvious. What else could you think to change Earth Master?

[Agitodesu]

It could be meant as buff all classes so no one can complain, since every other class is op.  It could be buffing every class to summoner standards for example, Broom jab hitting 15 times. and cross cut hiitting 9 times at the same speed as original. I'm sure a Crossing Broomnado can demolish a summoner with enough elemental dps, and mean while if you do something dumb like get stunned or get caught, summoners can x spam you to death. Nothing too serious. You cant complain when you and summoner can equally kill as fast depending on situation.

 

Edited by Agitodesu, 11 September 2015 - 05:29 PM.

[SoulSight]

It's not simple like you think because chain combo brings superarmor, if they have enough attack speed, they are no different than a tower! And it's not easy to cast since chain combo does mini stun!