96 replies to this topic

[ch3n]

And I'm still here stuck with my osiris set because I got bored at grinding.

Is Jawaii an alternative course of leveling map or just another next level map?

[Shinyusuke]

And I'm still here stuck with my osiris set because I got bored at grinding.

Is Jawaii an alternative course of leveling map or just another next level map?

them gears are for ML40 so i guess it's a new grinding map

[KuroiKoneko]

nooooo, purpleseed runeholes again @_@

[RenKasha]

ok so...from this the 2 classes share the gear probly not the final build?....who knows but info is cool to see at least.

Armor

war/knight http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702306

ranger/bm/sin/rogue http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702311

sm/crec http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702360

monk/priest/wiz/sorc http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702316

Weapons

greatsword=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702290

sword=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702291 shield=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702292

mace= http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702301  bible=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702302

Bow=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702295  quiver=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702296

Claw=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702300

Dual dagger=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702297

knuckle=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702298

Handle=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702304 Doll=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702305

Rod=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702293

Staff=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702294

Scythe=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702303

Spear=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702299

Accessory

Earing=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702323

Necklace=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702321

Ornament=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702324

Ring=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702322

 

 

 

 

Edited by RenKasha, 16 June 2015 - 07:15 PM.

[KuroiKoneko]

ok so...from this the 2 classes share the gear probly not the final build?....who knows but info is cool to see at least.
Armor
war/knight http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702306
ranger/bm/sin/rogue http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702311
sm/crec http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702360
monk/priest/wiz/sorc http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702316
Weapons
greatsword=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702290
sword=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702291 shield=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702292
mace= http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702301 bible=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702302
Bow=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702295 quiver=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702296
Claw=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702300
Dual dagger=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702297
knuckle=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702298
Handle=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702304 Doll=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702305
Rod=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702293
Staff=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702294
Scythe=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702303
Spear=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702299
Accessory
Earing=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702323
Necklace=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702321
Ornament=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702324
Ring=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702322

dat... tanky sm tho

*rereoll to sm

[7843140731162112220]

Well, maybe some class agree with upcoming new armor gear, same gear for both 2nd class.. I dont see any problem with other class except noel class - Crecentia and SoulMaker.

 

Just a reminder, other class eg warrior and knight, sorcerer and wizard etc all using same kind of armor like heavy armor, light armor or cloth armor. But Noel class differ each other, Crecentia use light armor and SM use cloth armor.

In new gear, Crecentia and SM use same kind of armor which is between light and cloth armor. Maybe for SM it's a good thing they moved from squishy cloth armor, but for Crecentia that armor is downgrade from prev Eddga armor.

 

So, just hope that that is still in testing, not a final gear.

If ever they released it same as now, I dont see any reason to play Crecentia because *maybe* they will nerf dot - no more op pet from Crecentia - just a normal class, with downgrade armor.

[Saturn33]

Ancient Worrior's.

Serenneu.
I believe and hope their "Required Level" and "Stats Distribution" have not been finalize yet.
 
 
And I hope developer bring back the older Item Rarity Stats Distribution in RO2:LOTS Era.
 
 
A more "Systematic" Stats Distribution according to Item Rarity could be in this way:
* Bold words show the differences between the current and previous rarity level.
 
Weapon:
 
Normal (White):
- Min-Max Damage.
- Attack Power / Magic Power.
- HP & SP.
- Hit.
 
Advanced (Green):
- Min-Max Damage.
- Attack Power / Magic Power.
- STR / INT / AGI / WIS / VIT (All related Main Stats).
- Hit.
* All values are greater compared to the same level Normal Weapon.
 
Rare (Blue):
- Min-Max Damage.
- Attack Power / Magic Power.
- STR / INT / AGI / WIS / VIT (All related Main Stats).
- Hit.
- Critical (Damage Bonus Secondary Stat).
* All values are greater compared to the same level Advanced Weapon.
 
Epic (Purple):
- Min-Max Damage.
- Attack Power / Magic Power.
- STR / INT / AGI / WIS / VIT (All related Main Stats).
- Hit.
- Critical (Damage Bonus Secondary Stat).
- Vigor, Haste, Cast Speed (Attack/Skill Boosting Secondary Stats).
* All values are greater compared to the same level Rare Weapon.
 
Legendary (Orange): If they ever make their way into the game.
- Min-Max Damage.
- Attack Power / Magic Power.
- STR / INT / AGI / WIS / VIT (All related Main Stats).
- Hit.
- Critical (Damage Bonus Secondary Stat).
- Vigor, Haste, Cast Speed (Attack/Skill Boosting Secondary Stats).
- Penetration (Armor Ripper).
* All values are greater compared to the same level Epic Weapon.
 
 
Armor:
 
Normal (White):
- HP & SP.
- Defence.
 
Advanced (Green):
- STR / INT / AGI / WIS / VIT (All related Main Stats).
- Defence.
* All values are greater compared to the same level Normal Armor.
 
Rare (Blue):
- STR / INT / AGI / WIS / VIT (All related Main Stats).
- Defence.
- Dodge, Parry (Defence related Secondary Stats).
* All values are greater compared to the same level Advanced Armor.
 
Epic (Purple):
- STR / INT / AGI / WIS / VIT (All related Main Stats).
- Defence.
- Dodge, Parry (Defence related Secondary Stats).
- Vigor (Skill Boosting Secondary Stats).
* All values are greater compared to the same level Rare Armor.
 
Legendary (Orange): If they ever make their way into the game.
- STR / INT / AGI / WIS / VIT (All related Main Stats).
- Defence.
- Dodge, Parry (Defence related Secondary Stats).
- Vigor (Skill Boosting Secondary Stats).
- Additional Damage Reduction.
* All values are greater compared to the same level Epic Armor.

 
 
Off-Hand Weapon:
Off-Hand Weapon creates inconsistency among classes, so in order to make things systematic:
 
1) Remove all Rune Hole, Disable Refinement and Honing on Off-Hand Weapon.
- And in this way, Stats in Off-Hand Weapon should be a portion of Stats (except Min-Max Damage) that is subtracted from their corresponding Main Weapon.
- i.e. All Stats of Bible + Mace should = All Stats of Rod.
- Special Stat like Additional Damage Reduction in Knight Shield can be retain.
 
Or:
 
2) Introduce Off-Hand Weapon to all classes.   
 

Knight - Shield (Already in use).
Warrior - Knife.
Assassin - Silencer.
Rogue - Thief Sake Bag.
Beastmaster - Whip.
Ranger - Arrow.
Wizard - Magic Stick.
Sorcerer - Magic Wand.
Priest - Bible (Already in use).
Monk - Buddha Beads Chain.
Crecentia - Hook.
Soulmaker - Soul Doll (Already in use).

 
 
 
Stats Weight/Distribution on Equipment:
 
Min-Max Damage, Penetration:
- 100% on Main Weapon.
 
Attack Power / Magic Power, Hit, Critical, Haste, Cast Speed:
- 100% on Main Weapon.
- Or 67% on Main Weapon, 33% on Off-Hand Weapon.
 
HP & SP, STR / INT / AGI / WIS / VIT, Vigor:
- 30% on Main Weapon; 20% on Shirt, 15% on Helm, 15% on Pants, 10% on Glove, 10% on Shoe.
- Or 20% on Main Weapon, 10% on Off-Hand Weapon; 20% on Shirt, 15% on Helm, 15% on Pants, 10% on Glove, 10% on Shoe.
 
Defence, Dodge, Parry:
- 30% on Shirt, 20% on Helm, 20% on Pants, 15% on Glove, 15% on Shoe.
 
 
 
Rune Hole on Equipment:
Since rune hole creates the chaos even more, so:
 
Main Weapon: 1 Purple.
Off-Hand Weapon: Null.
Helm: 1 Normal.
Shirt: 1 Purple.
Pants: 1 Normal
Glove: 1 Normal.
Shoe: 1 Normal.
 
That's enough, and totally get rid of Seed Rune. 
 
 
 
These are what I wish for the future Equipment content. 

Edited by Saturn33, 17 June 2015 - 05:13 AM.

[Shinyusuke]

This would be really nice even more if done also with existing ML ones 

[Saturn33]

Continues...   

 

Accessories:

 

Advanced (Green):

- STR / INT / AGI (Damage related Main Stats).

 

Rare (Blue):

- STR / INT / AGI (Damage related Main Stats).

- Hit, Critical (Damage Bonus Secondary Stats).

 

Epic (Purple):

- STR / INT / AGI (Damage related Main Stats).

- Hit, Critical (Damage Bonus Secondary Stats).

- Vigor, Haste, Cast Speed (Attack/Skill Boosting Secondary Stats).

 

 

Stats Weight/Distribution on Accessories:

 

STR / INT / AGI, Hit, Critical, Vigor, Haste, Cast Speed:

- 35% on Necklace, 25% on Earring, 20% on Ornament, 10% on Ring, 10% on Ring.

 

 

Rune Hole on Accessories:

Necklace: 1 Normal.

Earring: Null.

Ornament: 1 Normal.

Ring: Null.

Ring: Null.

 

 

 

I think that is. 

[Maharaorajah]

Gold Rune slots in off-hand.... >.> just why....

[donchan]

Gold Rune slots in off-hand.... >.> just why....

 

Do not fret, devs are aware of this issue...

[SolM77186]

ahaha, if we were to ask for every broken things, we won't stop asking, so let's wait and see if they listen to us

[Telovi]

Making a fuss over unimplemented data sources without having certainty on the context about how all of them fit together with other aspects of the game that could be changed by new expansion. The community I know.  

[RenKasha]

saturn has some cool idea's can't wait to explore jawaii ...and 5% damage on accessory o.o

[Rhein14]

I don't like this new gears personally   I'm still using cazar gears with eddga weapon ) >.>    

[Greven79]

Off-Hand Weapon:
Off-Hand Weapon creates inconsistency among classes, so in order to make things systematic:
 
1) Remove all Rune Hole, Disable Refinement and Honing on Off-Hand Weapon.
- And in this way, Stats in Off-Hand Weapon should be a portion of Stats (except Min-Max Damage) that is subtracted from their corresponding Main Weapon.
- i.e. All Stats of Bible + Mace should = All Stats of Rod.
- Special Stat like Additional Damage Reduction in Knight Shield can be retain.

 

Why so selective? Why preferring general class equity, keeping a specialty for a single one? Really because damage reduction is more special than vigor, etc? Would it cease to work if the knight would get a defense bonuses like he did pre-AoV? To say the least, that sounds odd to me.

 

About the "no off-hand honing // refinement" part:

 

Damage output (Eddga gear):

Wizard:

507~572 Min~Max

+5947 MATK

PSE (without INT): 1,104

Total PSE (with INT): 1,500

 

Priest with bible:

398~435 Min~Max

+6786 MATK

PSE (without INT): 1,061

Total PSE (with INT): 1,482

 

Ranger with or without quiver:

1405~1538 Min~Max

+0 ATK

PSE (without STR): 1,471

Total PSE (with STR): 1,768

 

The ATK bonus is therefore a compensation for the missing weapon damage!

 

If you want to remove any off-hand refinement, you have to make sure that the refinement benefits of the primary weapon aren't based on the start values (base weapon damage, base ATK bonus).

 

Stat comparison (Eddga gear):

Wizard:

1378 INT

167 AGI

343 WIS

1,416 VIT

 

491 Cast Speed

282 Vigor

117 Penetration

 

1,069 Hit

935 Crit

 

Priest w\ Bible:

1,476 INT [+98]

472 AGI [+305]

343 WIS

1,177 VIT [-239]

 

784 Hit [-285]

685 Crit [-250]

 

872 Cast Speed [+381]

677 Vigor [+395]

117 Penetration

 

Both Wizards & Sorcerers get 20% more VIT. That results in a similar HP advantage.

On contrast, Priests (Soulmakers & Crecentias) get more AGI (I get to that in a sec).

 

Mages are also focused on hit & crit (they get +2 Crit/AGI as well), whereas the other magic classes get cast speed and/or vigor instead.

 

I'm not here to judge the effectiveness of any specific bonus... that can be altered by changing the formulas... but to highlight another fact: If you limit certain benefits to gear rarity...

 

white = dam//def//atk

green = dam//def//atk + stats

blue = dam//def//atk + stats + hit/crit/dodge/parry

purple = dam//def//atk + stats + hit/crit/dodge/parry + haste/vigor/cast_speed

 

... class differences must then either be limited to the options within a certain rarity as well or you created a rarity-based inbalance. F.e. if one class gets higher vigor rates, but lower hit/crit/dodge/parry values, that class would end up 'underpowered' unless the character wears purple gear.

 

And this bings me to stat bonuses:

It's simple, you can always replace them with the according secondary bonuses. F.e:

 

1,476 INT can be written as +4,428 ATK || +2,952 Hit || +1,478 Parry

 

This however puts the class-specific stat bonuses into question as they create inbalances even if all the classes would have the same stats. And in the end, it also makes your distinction between white, green and blue rarities questionable as well, as primary stats can be regarded as a group of secondary stats (blue), with additional ATK bonuses (white).

 

And if you transfer this onto skills, it gets even more difficult:

I.e. if a skill of one class increases crit,, other classes wouldn't be allowed to get a variant that increases vigor or defense instead... that's from a different 'tier'. Just look at it this way: It's perfectly valid to assume that skills are applied first and therefore generate a starting inbalance. (F.e. a +10% STR bonus). And in this way, they can be seen as VERY class-specific stat bonuses (more like class-build bonuses).

 

Last but not least, what should be obvious as well:

If you enforce - quote: "Stats in Off-Hand Weapon should be a portion of Stats that is subtracted from their corresponding Main Weapon", honing results can't be based on the start values either. Classes with off-hand items would have lower stats on the primary weapon.

 

So the alternative => "2) Introduce Off-Hand Weapon to all classes" seems more plausible, as it would avoid a few inbalances (f.e. the unmentioned drop chance differences). But even that wouldn't eliminate ALL the problems.

Edited by Greven79, 23 June 2015 - 05:02 AM.

[Saturn33]

 

Boss, you are really our hope towards the Ultimate Class Balance Project. I'm serious here. I really hope in the future there will be an overhaul/change of all the formulae, every class stats bonus, stats distribution for every single equipment and accessory, every single skills multiplier and cool down, amount of rune hole and rune bonus, refinement system, honing system, card system, pet system, guild skills, and many more system to achieve a status of Ultimate Class Balance, so that player can enjoy the game and stay. I really can't proceed with my limited capability and knowledge about all these things. So the community need very capable people like you, to figure out all the effects of the number and formulae towards class balance. Please help us for the future of this game. 

[magpi]

Just a quick update~ the ITS Jawaii build was delayed till Thursday

 

Sorry I got nothing new to update/confirm you guys with yet. 

 

 

 

 

[Amilus]

Just a quick update~ the ITS Jawaii build was delayed till Thursday

 

Sorry I got nothing new to update/confirm you guys with yet. 

 

i was hoping of Jawaii next monday... XD

[Glukos]

ok so...from this the 2 classes share the gear probly not the final build?....who knows but info is cool to see at least.

Armor

war/knight http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702306

ranger/bm/sin/rogue http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702311

sm/crec http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702360

monk/priest/wiz/sorc http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702316

Weapons

greatsword=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702290

sword=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702291 shield=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702292

mace= http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702301  bible=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702302

Bow=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702295  quiver=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702296

Claw=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702300

Dual dagger=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702297

knuckle=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702298

Handle=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702304 Doll=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702305

Rod=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702293

Staff=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702294

Scythe=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702303

Spear=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702299

Accessory

Earing=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702323

Necklace=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702321

Ornament=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702324

Ring=http://ro2.doskoi.org/item/16702322

 

i hope those are not final situation. because some ppl talking about sm will be op. really? did u really check carefully them?

 

why those gears have str? what is the meaning remove agi on gears and put str ?  new gears worst than eddga seems. dont know other classes but it is worst than eddga for sm.

 

eddga arm cover: 2 purple + 1 gold rune ; stats  int+vit;  penetration+ cast speed

serenneu arm cover: only  1 purple rune ; str+int+vit ;  haste+hit+cast speed

 

so what is the good thing for soulmakers? remove penetration and put haste and hit? haste useless for sm and hit is not really important. and lost 1 purple and 1 gold rune.

 

eddga cap: 2 purple + 1 gold rune;  stats agi+int+vit ;   critical
serenneu cap: 1 purple rune;  stats str +int+vit ; hit+critical

 

seems we are losting rune slot on all gears.  and there is a str instead of agi; what a good thing for sm.

 

eddga foot: 2 purple + 1 gold rune ;  agi+vit ; parry+vigor

serenneu foot: no rune slot(really? no wind rune anymore) str+int+vit ; additional damage +500

 

thank u for removing vigor and parry and put +500 damage instead. what a big damage, ohh 500 ,i can one shot to bears now. do u think ppl give up from wind runes for new gears? and no agi but int instead

 

eddga blouse: 2 purple + 1 gold ; int+wis+vit ; critical

serenneu blouse: 1 purple+ 1 gold ; str+int+wis+vit ; vigor

 

well at least top gear has vigor instead of crit. now problem is sm's agi already nerfed with eddga. now we nerfed again. and critical is nerfed also.  cap and foot now dont have agi anymore. seems goodbye to crit chances.

 

eddga trouser: 2 purple + 1 gold rune ; int+wis+vit ; critical

serenneu trouser : 1 purple + 1 gold ; str+agi+int+vit ; vigor

 

well looks like only good armor piece. agi instead of wis. but well critical nerfed again.

 

dont know the other classes but for sm  new gears are .

 

 

whatever cazar gears still best tho.(if not counting hones). but well our defence rate will be better at least.

Edited by Glukos, 23 June 2015 - 07:27 AM.

[Greven79]

Boss, you are really our hope towards the Ultimate Class Balance Project. I'm serious here. I really hope in the future there will be an overhaul/change of all the formulae, every class stats bonus, stats distribution for every single equipment and accessory, every single skills multiplier and cool down, amount of rune hole and rune bonus, refinement system, honing system, card system, pet system, guild skills, and many more system to achieve a status of Ultimate Class Balance, so that player can enjoy the game and stay. I really can't proceed with my limited capability and knowledge about all these things. So the community need very capable people like you, to figure out all the effects of the number and formulae towards class balance. Please help us for the future of this game. 

 

LOL. No need to get mad or sarcastic.

 

<=== Look there, I'm not even a VCR anymore.

 

But let's summarize:

You stated that off-hand weapons create inbalances and I agreed. You stated that you'd like to remove the off-hand hones, refinements, etc, and I accepted this idea, played the "what if" game and stated the possible implications here. Yes, it would require to make honing and refinement independant of the starting value: But that's easy peasy.

 

What I actually questioned was your argument about balanced weapon stats (primary+offhand). Here, I just added that equal stats won't do much if there aren't equal stat bonuses as well. And of course, the same is true for skills & items (f.e. Knight's shield), that grant more significant bonuses.

 

Does it make your suggestion invalid? Of course not!

It would just require an extra effort. So where is the part to get mad?

 

The other point I referred to was the categorization based on gear rarity. And whereas the LotS system allowed vigor, haste & cast speed bonuses on blue items, your proposal limits that towards purple items only. IMO, it would lower the differences between green & blue gear, since stat generate secondary bonuses.

 

Would it make this suggestion invalid? Not at all. You would just have to make sure that the added secondary stats create a meaningful difference. That's why I wrote the example about INT.

 

So which argument enraged you that much that come up with this?

"I really can't proceed with my limited capability and knowledge about all these things."

[Amilus]

i hope those are not final situation. because some ppl talking about sm will be op. really? did u really check carefully them?

 

why those gears have str? what is the meaning remove agi on gears and put str ?  new gears worst than eddga seems. dont know other classes but it is worst than eddga for sm.

 

eddga arm cover: 2 purple + 1 gold rune ; stats  int+vit;  penetration+ cast speed

serenneu arm cover: only  1 purple rune ; str+int+vit ;  haste+hit+cast speed

 

so what is the good thing for soulmakers? remove penetration and put haste and hit? haste useless for sm and hit is not really important. and lost 1 purple and 1 gold rune.

 

eddga cap: 2 purple + 1 gold rune;  stats agi+int+vit ;   critical
serenneu cap: 1 purple rune;  stats str +int+vit ; hit+critical

 

seems we are losting rune slot on all gears.  and there is a str instead of agi; what a good thing for sm.

 

eddga foot: 2 purple + 1 gold rune ;  agi+vit ; parry+vigor

serenneu foot: no rune slot(really? no wind rune anymore) str+int+vit ; additional damage +500

 

thank u for removing vigor and parry and put +500 damage instead. what a big damage, ohh 500 ,i can one shot to bears now. do u think ppl give up from wind runes for new gears? and no agi but int instead

 

eddga blouse: 2 purple + 1 gold ; int+wis+vit ; critical

serenneu blouse: 1 purple+ 1 gold ; str+int+wis+vit ; vigor

 

well at least top gear has vigor instead of crit. now problem is sm's agi already nerfed with eddga. now we nerfed again. and critical is nerfed also.  cap and foot now dont have agi anymore. seems goodbye to crit chances.

 

eddga trouser: 2 purple + 1 gold rune ; int+wis+vit ; critical

serenneu trouser : 1 purple + 1 gold ; str+agi+int+vit ; vigor

 

well looks like only good armor piece. agi instead of wis. but well critical nerfed again.

 

dont know the other classes but for sm  new gears are .

 

 

whatever cazar gears still best tho.(if not counting hones). but well our defence rate will be better at least.

 

i dont think those data finalised yet, every class should have different stats, and you can see that each part level requirement ranged from ML35~40, this look weird, but they may reduce purple rune slot due to higher level rune available for exchange, it maybe +120 or even +150

 

[Amilus]

since VCRs replying here, may i ask if these capes fusable yet?

 

[Amilus]

These cards were added weeks ago...

 

 

This is instant dungeon picture, so the big boss may look like this... 

 

Edited by Amilus, 23 June 2015 - 09:53 AM.

[magpi]

Haven't seen anything on a higher rune but will keep an eye out for it!  I'm really not happy with the way gear is set right now too, I hope it isn't final.

 

 

Those capes were kind of made in advance with the Brazil ones for future events(?) I'd assume since those were, then these will probably be too.

 

 

Hahaha yeah those cards~ Gives you a little preview of what monsters are to come! We're unsure of the stats like if they are final or not. There seems to be alot of repeats.