203 replies to this topic

[VisitorX]

I must admit the crit lock which I think some players think doesn't exist is absolutely crazy now, sometimes on cleric I can go from full HP to dead from crit locks as you literally CANNOT skill or heal or attempt to run, it just doesn't work!

Yeah it's just like in TG when a raider is full boosted and crit lock you and kill you in one stun because their damage is so high :/ poor clerics can't do anything about it in TG. It's even bad in AA but at least they aren't on boosters there

[Feuer]

Atleast some positive things came from this thread. 

[Feuer]

Only a thread starter can request that the thread is closed. And I have not done that, so chill. 

[asuboy]

nah kayar definetly need nerded . indeed don"t close this thread .... katar has too much for now among all classes . who said mage is OP i take out mage like flies . they got no chance to cast their mana shield for sure stun them . 3-4 normal hits they died . take out kayar crot lock and the ability to weaken its enemy"s crit rate . its getting borring for me to play raider any way . but too lazy to play other classes because of too many raiders around .

[Feuer]

The only thing I see as a potential problem is that 'Raiders' Survive equally compared to Knights, get more Kills than a Champion, and Deal more damage than a Mage. Essentially they are the omni-class. They do it all, and often do it better than the classes that are 'supposed' to do those things. 

[CharasX]

The only thing I see as a potential problem is that 'Raiders' Survive equally compared to Knights, get more Kills than a Champion, and Deal more damage than a Mage. Essentially they are the omni-class. They do it all, and often do it better than the classes that are 'supposed' to do those things. 

 

Raiders survive equally compared to knight? really? lol

It takes a good 15 sec to kill a knight with 10 DPS classes on it

It takes 3 sec to kill a raider with 1 gunbourg on it

 

where do you see any comparaison possible? xD You must be talking about stealth/cloack, only explanation possible.

 

As for dmg... well... if we are to compare it to mage... katar can't deal deal 7k dmg skills, dual can tho, but at the cost of their atk speed. Katar don't aoe, dual raiders can ofc, but they aren t ranged. And most important aspect of this comparaison, raiders (especially since the huge dual nerf) don't have any CC skills.

The only thing that makes Raiders deal comparable DPS to Mages (in the long run) is because they die less often, only because they are not on top of the threat list, so usually not the first target. And even then... when Mages die much more often, they steal dish as much damage than a raider who would never die.

 

As for champs... no clue... but most of them just spam aoes and hope for the best, I have yet to see a skilled champ in AA, when I see the huge nuke they are able to dish out on their skills, I do believe they could perform better than they do, might be wrong tho as I never played a geared champ myself. This tactic works if the team got enough AOEs tho... as it then means insta kill.

 

But! If I'm to be honest with you... THE thing that makes Raiders be completly OP are stat buffs, because compared to other classes our DPS is boosted by AP stat buff, DEX stat buff, and multiplied by Atk Speed stat buff, as 100% from our DPS comes from normal hits. This atk speed stat buff is way to powerfull, even for the already so godly buff standars we have "for now" (because I do not give up hope on seeing this changing in the future). So if you want to balance Raider s DPS... just nerf this crazy atk speed stat buff, and you already got a very nice balance fix right there.

[kwayan19]

And they say im crazy because I was saying that stat buffs are broken especially in game arena


As for raiders its their crit thats making them op.. from crit passives, crit debuffs, crit stacking debuff, crit damage and more crit damage stacking..

Edited by kwayan19, 01 July 2015 - 11:20 PM.

[asuboy]

you forgot to mention their critical lock and 180% crit damage with super duper high aspeed . classes which dont have high crit rating will not stand a chance at all . i agree with you with their 2 escapes skills . which is make it way too much most people can only de cloack every 20-30 secs by then the katar raider is kong gone . or you already death ... the stacking skills is worse because its always at max lvl once it starts to hit . diferent with gunners or knight only available for 3 seconds only than it will wait again to reach max and over again ...

[Feuer]

Raiders survive equally compared to knight? really? lol

It takes a good 15 sec to kill a knight with 10 DPS classes on it

It takes 3 sec to kill a raider with 1 gunbourg on it

 

where do you see any comparaison possible? xD You must be talking about stealth/cloack, only explanation possible.

 

As for dmg... well... if we are to compare it to mage... katar can't deal deal 7k dmg skills, dual can tho, but at the cost of their atk speed. Katar don't aoe, dual raiders can ofc, but they aren t ranged. And most important aspect of this comparaison, raiders (especially since the huge dual nerf) don't have any CC skills.

The only thing that makes Raiders deal comparable DPS to Mages (in the long run) is because they die less often, only because they are not on top of the threat list, so usually not the first target. And even then... when Mages die much more often, they steal dish as much damage than a raider who would never die.

 

As for champs... no clue... but most of them just spam aoes and hope for the best, I have yet to see a skilled champ in AA, when I see the huge nuke they are able to dish out on their skills, I do believe they could perform better than they do, might be wrong tho as I never played a geared champ myself. This tactic works if the team got enough AOEs tho... as it then means insta kill.

 

But! If I'm to be honest with you... THE thing that makes Raiders be completly OP are stat buffs, because compared to other classes our DPS is boosted by AP stat buff, DEX stat buff, and multiplied by Atk Speed stat buff, as 100% from our DPS comes from normal hits. This atk speed stat buff is way to powerfull, even for the already so godly buff standars we have "for now" (because I do not give up hope on seeing this changing in the future). So if you want to balance Raider s DPS... just nerf this crazy atk speed stat buff, and you already got a very nice balance fix right there.

 

Read the data in the first page. The K/D's and DMG Done charts are definitive in explaining this, if you can't read a chart, don't bother commenting in this thread.

 

 

As for the rest of the thread, I'm going to go through and flag everything that isn't legitimate + on topic, and request the posts marked 'off topic' be cleaned up. 

[CharasX]

Read the data in the first page. The K/D's and DMG Done charts are definitive in explaining this, if you can't read a chart, don't bother commenting in this thread.

 

 

As for the rest of the thread, I'm going to go through and flag everything that isn't legitimate + on topic, and request the posts marked 'off topic' be cleaned up. 

 

That's great, I can see you are a "statistic" kind of guy. As I can see mages kill as much as raiders, but die more often. As for the raider and knight comparaison... well if you take those numbers to judge how tanky a class is... then Scouts are the most tanky class in this game! 

GG u

 

And if I may... I give comments whereever I want!

[Feuer]

The Death ratio isn't based on tank. 

Death ratio's are influenced by every stat that extends your ability to survive.

Block Physical

Block Magic

Def

M.Def

Dodge

Damage Reduction

Crit Resistance

PvP/PvM Resistance

Offense Status Downs like [AP Down, Accu Down, Crit Down, Mute, Stuns, Aspeed Down]

Stun Resist

Mute Resist

Status Resist

etc.

 

All of those will influence a rate at which you die. Trying to lump sum it up to 'tanking' is the efforts of simpletons who don't know/aren't aware or don't want to admit that balancing things are NOT a simple task. Fixing the Raider so it is unique, while staying relative to other classes K/D's and Dmg Dealt is tricky. 

 

So unless you have something based on the Data and can estimate a rough outcome then I'll just ask the post be cleaned up. I made this thread in a serious effort to validate claims and provide a tool for everyone to make educated suggestions and proposals to smooth out the game play. 

 

[Aldrine]

The way i see it is that most raiders in this game have just gotten too good with the class so others think its OP. Whenever i play AA i always see the same raiders and they are quite good at how they play the class...and there are the odd raiders now and then that just get swatted away by aoes and bourgs. One question i might have is how much effect does clan skills add to this? Not everyone has clan passives...

[carlosrose]

Would actually be nice to see a new char of the past 2-3 weeks, there has been a quite noticible increase on gunners around, both gun bourgs and artisans. Maybe now we can see a change on that K/D ratio on artisans 

[CharasX]

The Death ratio isn't based on tank. 

Death ratio's are influenced by every stat that extends your ability to survive.

Block Physical

Block Magic

Def

M.Def

Dodge

Damage Reduction

Crit Resistance

PvP/PvM Resistance

Offense Status Downs like [AP Down, Accu Down, Crit Down, Mute, Stuns, Aspeed Down]

Stun Resist

Mute Resist

Status Resist

etc.

 

All of those will influence a rate at which you die. Trying to lump sum it up to 'tanking' is the efforts of simpletons who don't know/aren't aware or don't want to admit that balancing things are NOT a simple task. Fixing the Raider so it is unique, while staying relative to other classes K/D's and Dmg Dealt is tricky. 

 

So unless you have something based on the Data and can estimate a rough outcome then I'll just ask the post be cleaned up. I made this thread in a serious effort to validate claims and provide a tool for everyone to make educated suggestions and proposals to smooth out the game play. 

 

 And yet, this is exactly what you did by saying Raiders tank as much as Knights, I m not the one who is guilty of making inaccurate simplifications there.

[siryu]

and do you guys know why mage died alot ?

1st thing is their damage is to OP, you can ask every job in every AA game, every cleric, champ, knight, gb, ba, mage ( ALL JOB ) 

they would say , kill their mage 1st .. why ? because they can kil us all 15 people in 2-3 second ,, even with 2-3 FS cant heal anybody ..

and why they died more than any other job ?

because cleric keep resurrect them .. why ? because  everybody thing that they really need that AOE from mage,

even without buff , their AOE can kill us all in 2-3 second ..

who said raider can kill mage like a fly ,, you wrong ...

i played raider , and all thos mage can kill me 1 by1 in 3 second .. you can even cloack, run or even use hp pot ..

u just freeze there and wait to die ..

for all you guys that keep cryin about died to much or other class to OP,, 

please train harder ....  to people who said BA is so weak that its not playable ... or any other excuse ...

there's some people who start playing BA , and they doing really good, so good that they got into 1st rank couple time ,, most kill ..

that make people start playing BA , this last couple weeks ..

also alot more people play champion ..

 

if you want make this game more balance or interesting,,,  i would suggest that GM will remove cleric buff & stat buff ..

from my experience,  playing AA without FS bufff & stat buff on both team , is the best AA ... 

nobody died to fast ... 

[carlosrose]

if you want make this game more balance or interesting,,,  i would suggest that GM will remove cleric buff & stat buff ..

from my experience,  playing AA without FS bufff & stat buff on both team , is the best AA ... 

nobody died to fast ... 

 

More than remove I would say nerf... 

[CharasX]

and do you guys know why mage died alot ?

1st thing is their damage is to OP, you can ask every job in every AA game, every cleric, champ, knight, gb, ba, mage ( ALL JOB ) 

they would say , kill their mage 1st .. why ? because they can kil us all 15 people in 2-3 second ,, even with 2-3 FS cant heal anybody ..

and why they died more than any other job ?

because cleric keep resurrect them .. why ? because  everybody thing that they really need that AOE from mage,

even without buff , their AOE can kill us all in 2-3 second ..

who said raider can kill mage like a fly ,, you wrong ...

i played raider , and all thos mage can kill me 1 by1 in 3 second .. you can even cloack, run or even use hp pot ..

u just freeze there and wait to die ..

for all you guys that keep cryin about died to much or other class to OP,, 

please train harder ....  to people who said BA is so weak that its not playable ... or any other excuse ...

there's some people who start playing BA , and they doing really good, so good that they got into 1st rank couple time ,, most kill ..

that make people start playing BA , this last couple weeks ..

also alot more people play champion ..

 

if you want make this game more balance or interesting,,,  i would suggest that GM will remove cleric buff & stat buff ..

from my experience,  playing AA without FS bufff & stat buff on both team , is the best AA ... 

nobody died to fast ... 

 

It happened... someone with a working brain understands how things are.... YES! hope is still there! I m not alone!

Give this guy a piece of Ukraine!

[angeltje]

if you want make this game more balance or interesting,,,  i would suggest that GM will remove cleric buff & stat buff ..

from my experience,  playing AA without FS bufff & stat buff on both team , is the best AA ... 

nobody died to fast ... 

 

i agree something must been done, but removing would make big part of the cleric role go away.

That doesnt seem quite right, so something else then just removing would be better.

Edited by angeltje, 02 July 2015 - 03:11 AM.

[Feuer]

Siryu, I'd like to see a screen of the BA who got first place if you don't mind. I'm assuming it's a gun user, and I'd be willing to bet they got lucky and KS'd most of their kills. I can verify this theory for the most part simply off damage done to kill counts. 

[siryu]

i agree something must been done, but removing would make big part of the cleric role go away.
That doesnt seem quite right, so something else then just removing would be better.

no cleric role will not go away ,,,,
what is main purpose of Cleric ? > support ..
support the team by healing, keep the team member alive , not by buff them ..
right now the Cleric role is dissapearing slowly , day by day ..
people playing SC with the cleric afk, after give buff ..

and without OP buff,, cleric healing role will also will change in GA , since people wont die in 1-3 second ..
because right now to hard to heal people , when people died faster then you can click them ..

Siryu, I'd like to see a screen of the BA who got first place if you don't mind. I'm assuming it's a gun user, and I'd be willing to bet they got lucky and KS'd most of their kills. I can verify this theory for the most part simply off damage done to kill counts.

i don't have the SS for that , but i can try to ask them if they got it ..
and if you didnt realize people start playing BA , meaning you didn't play AA this last couple weeks ..
start by 2 people playing BA. now more people start playing BA also, or start playing their old BA ..

Edited by VModCupcake, 02 July 2015 - 09:19 AM.

[Feuer]

I have noticed the incline. However performance they're normally below GB's and Katars. I just want to see/know who is performing that good and what their tactic is. If it's something that can be molded into the Artisan update I'd like to know about it. 

[asuboy]

dont talk about know how to play mage if you dont play one in AA . 2-3 seconds can kill the entire group ? that mage is death before even able to cast the aoe . especially if only one fs around . about the damage yes i agree mage can cause serious damage . but the problemnis their mana shield wont last more than 3 secs with katar raider than once they got sleep or stun just say good bye sometimes the mage got caught in stun while jumping to cast its mana shield .... katar raiders definetly has too much . gun bourg yes they did some serious damage but the only defence is just by running . its almost as fragile as mage .... while raider has so much deff and dodge .... well if it is not OP than the number in AA should be about even compare to other classes ...

[siryu]

dont talk about know how to play mage if you dont play one in AA . 2-3 seconds can kill the entire group ? that mage is death before even able to cast the aoe . especially if only one fs around . about the damage yes i agree mage can cause serious damage . but the problemnis their mana shield wont last more than 3 secs with katar raider than once they got sleep or stun just say good bye sometimes the mage got caught in stun while jumping to cast its mana shield .... katar raiders definetly has too much . gun bourg yes they did some serious damage but the only defence is just by running . its almost as fragile as mage .... while raider has so much deff and dodge .... well if it is not OP than the number in AA should be about even compare to other classes ...

 

thats mean your mage failed if you can't last 3 second  1 by 1 ...

ask around , how to build better mage ,,, adapt with situation ...

[kwayan19]

Lol funny I see you kill mages like pancakes... all aoes are deadly if left alone.. if I were to choose whoch aoe is the deadliest I would choose the launcher bourgs... holy crit aoes...

Its the overall damage that is broken plus the stat buffs... also that crit lock is broken

[Mystiquef0rce]

thats mean your mage failed if you can't last 3 second 1 by 1 ...
ask around , how to build better mage ,,, adapt with situation ...

Im a fail mage.. I can't last 3 seconds