29 replies to this topic

[hannabanana1]

How work this? The % is of the end damage? or based in your base attack?

[Kadelia]

Scenario: You are level 100 and have 100 str and a weapon with 100 atk, whcih is a level 3 weapon and refined to +5. For simplicity you have 1 dex, 1 luk.

What is in the status screen? 125+125.
Why? 100 str = 100 status attack (the left number). Every 4 base levels also gives +1 status attack. The weapon attack is on the right. the weapon is +25 attack power from refinements.

What is my real damage?
Well, for starters, status attack is doubled when dealing damage. So that amount from str and from base levels,it is 125* 2, so 250 damage to start against that squishy little poring.

What about the weapon? Well, you have 125 damage to start with, but this gets tweaked in a number of ways. The base weapon attack (before refinement) is adjusted a couple of times. Str affects your weapon attack. 1% increase per 2 str, actually. So with 100 str, the weapon attack goes up 50%. Next we have "variance". Level affects the variance. Your weapon will get plus or minus 5% for every level of the weapon. So a level 4 weapon can do 20% less or 20% more than its base value.

At this point, the tweaks apply to our upgrade-added damage as well, and this is after the str mod and variance.

The size of your enemy will change the effectiveness of your weapon. Swords are good against 'medium' enemies for example, but daggers take a 25% penalty. Daggers are even worse against 'large' enemies, where they take a 50% penalty.

Element will affect your damage too. If you do 200% to the enemy with your weapons's element, this is where it'd happen. Applying to the weapon only, not status attack.

So we've learned our 100 atk weapon with 25 atk worth of refines is actually 150 attack due to str, but can be 127~172 with variance since its a level 3 weapon. You then tack on 25 more attack from the refines, so 152~197, then you ask about size penalty and element, which well leave out for today.

So your damage is 250 from status and 152~197 for that +5 weapon. So you might do 402~447 damage to a poring.

Now what about cards?

In the example above, you did 402~447 damage to a poring. What about cards and gears that affect atk?

+100 attack
Say you had a card or equip that gives 100 atk. When does this get added?
Answer: after upgrade damage is added, but it gets its own formula.

Equipment attack * elemental mod

So it doesn't just tack on 100 damage to our 402~447, but it comes close to doing that. In fact since in this example were not playing ith elemental mods, it will do just that. 502~547 damage.

+40% attack power
Lets say we have 2 race cards. When does this get added? ANSWER: Right after upgrade damage and equip atk.

okay, so we had 152~197 weapon attack before, right? Multiply that * 1.4. So 212~275 now.

Add in the damage from status attack and your whacking that poring for 462~525

Verdict : which is better? +atk or +% attack?
Bad news! The answer is "neither, it depends"!

When you have a low attack weapon like in this example, +atk tends to be better, since those +% effects have a smaller number to start multiplying.

But when you have a high attack weapon, like those beefy level 4 weapons with 180 attack or 332 attack, you get a lot more bang out of a +% effect.

Youll also notice with say, cat ear beret, if you're bare handed, you get no increase whatsoever. Why? Because your damage is all status attack, and cards/gear that increase by a % only apply to weapon attack half of the formula! Same with using a converter or endow on your bare hand. Interesting, huh?

Congratulations on surviving my lesson!

Edited by Jaye, 16 June 2015 - 08:43 AM.

[Necrohealiac]

Jaye needs to start teaching classes on game mechanics. I wouldn't mind working towards a degree from RO University Online.

[8464131223201318730]

jaye explanation never dissapoint me.. 

[zefram]

Jaye needs to start teaching classes on game mechanics. I wouldn't mind working towards a degree from RO University Online.

Lol, i was trying to write something on that line, you beat me on that.

What about the buffs like odin's power and strike ? Are they factored in with the bonus from %atk from cards/ equipments ?

I'm trying to figure out how much better an amdarais card would be than a porcelio for Arrow Storm with high end gears.

Edited by zefram, 16 June 2015 - 09:53 AM.

[Necrohealiac]

that's for the 301 level course. this is 101

[Lazaruce]

Where do I sign up for enrollment?

I only base it on this :

If I have low atk , flat + atk would do

If I have high atk , +atk% will do better

[Kadelia]

Odins power works like +atk gears
What does the amdarais card do?

Edited by Jaye, 16 June 2015 - 10:33 AM.

[Necrohealiac]

ATK +15%, MATK +15%.

[Kadelia]

That applies in the same place as hydra card or etc.

Good rule of thumb is if its 15%, look at your wep atk. Say you've got a 160 atk weapon. What is 15% of that? That is 24. So you already know a 160 atk weapon is always going to benefit more from the amardais card than the porcellio, because its always > 25 atk after refinement.

[tamagotchi3890]

[...]

Thanks for the info. I fully understand the complicated math.

Off topic:
@Jaye, are you familiar with ? Why don't you use image on iRO Wiki?

Like this:

StatusATK = Floor( BaseLevel ÷ 4 + STR + DEX ÷ 5 + LUK ÷ 3 )

Source: iRO Wiki: ATK

:

where:
is the status part of ATK;
is the base level of the player;
is the STR of the player;
is the DEX of the player; and
is the LUK of the player.

Let us define the ATK. Note: I am using the variation style of complex number (a+bi).
 DEFINITION 1 - ATK The ATK is a number of the form A + B, where A is the status part of ATK and B is the weapon part of ATK. The weapon part of ATK is the sum of the Weapon ATK and the Equip ATK. The status part of ATK is denoted by and the weapon part of ATK is denoted by . 

Spoiler

Example 1:
<TO DO: I'll add example tomorrow.>

Example 2:

Edited by tamagotchi3890, 17 June 2015 - 06:36 AM.

[hotel]

Scenario: You are level 100 and have 100 str and a weapon with 100 atk, whcih is a level 3 weapon and refined to +5. For simplicity you have 1 dex, 1 luk.

What is in the status screen? 125+125.
Why? 100 str = 100 status attack (the left number). Every 4 base levels also gives +1 status attack. The weapon attack is on the right. the weapon is +25 attack power from refinements.

What is my real damage?
Well, for starters, status attack is doubled when dealing damage. So that amount from str and from base levels,it is 125* 2, so 250 damage to start against that squishy little poring.

What about the weapon? Well, you have 125 damage to start with, but this gets tweaked in a number of ways. The base weapon attack (before refinement) is adjusted a couple of times. Str affects your weapon attack. 1% increase per 2 str, actually. So with 100 str, the weapon attack goes up 50%. Next we have "variance". Level affects the variance. Your weapon will get plus or minus 5% for every level of the weapon. So a level 4 weapon can do 20% less or 20% more than its base value.

At this point, the tweaks apply to our upgrade-added damage as well, and this is after the str mod and variance.

The size of your enemy will change the effectiveness of your weapon. Swords are good against 'medium' enemies for example, but daggers take a 25% penalty. Daggers are even worse against 'large' enemies, where they take a 50% penalty.

Element will affect your damage too. If you do 200% to the enemy with your weapons's element, this is where it'd happen. Applying to the weapon only, not status attack.

So we've learned our 100 atk weapon with 25 atk worth of refines is actually 150 attack due to str, but can be 127~172 with variance since its a level 3 weapon. You then tack on 25 more attack from the refines, so 152~197, then you ask about size penalty and element, which well leave out for today.

So your damage is 250 from status and 152~197 for that +5 weapon. So you might do 402~447 damage to a poring.

Now what about cards?

In the example above, you did 402~447 damage to a poring. What about cards and gears that affect atk?

+100 attack
Say you had a card or equip that gives 100 atk. When does this get added?
Answer: after upgrade damage is added, but it gets its own formula.

Equipment attack * elemental mod

So it doesn't just tack on 100 damage to our 402~447, but it comes close to doing that. In fact since in this example were not playing ith elemental mods, it will do just that. 502~547 damage.

+40% attack power
Lets say we have 2 race cards. When does this get added? ANSWER: Right after upgrade damage and equip atk.

okay, so we had 152~197 weapon attack before, right? Multiply that * 1.4. So 212~275 now.

Add in the damage from status attack and your whacking that poring for 462~525

Verdict : which is better? +atk or +% attack?
Bad news! The answer is "neither, it depends"!

When you have a low attack weapon like in this example, +atk tends to be better, since those +% effects have a smaller number to start multiplying.

But when you have a high attack weapon, like those beefy level 4 weapons with 180 attack or 332 attack, you get a lot more bang out of a +% effect.

Youll also notice with say, cat ear beret, if you're bare handed, you get no increase whatsoever. Why? Because your damage is all status attack, and cards/gear that increase by a % only apply to weapon attack half of the formula! Same with using a converter or endow on your bare hand. Interesting, huh?

Congratulations on surviving my lesson!

you should put that somewhere on the wiki, it's super helpful 

[blackCROSSCY]

In short,

 

1. ATK = StatusATK × 2 + WeaponATK + EquipATK + MasteryATK

 

2. % cards affect both Weapon ATK and Equip ATK.

 

3. any +ATK are counted towards Equip ATK.

 

Your final decision comes to whether 

A)dmg% boost*(Weapon ATK + EquipATK)  gives you more damage OR

OR pure +ATK.

 

In most cases you will find attack % to give higher, but they work together. having more ATK also makes your % increase more.

[IronFist]

So how does range atk work?
It seem to be increased by everything.

[KirinKishi808]

So how does range atk work?
It seem to be increased by everything.

 

I don't understand what you mean by "everything" here.

 

But from my testing, AS card seem to increase both status ATK & weapon ATK by a flat 10% unlike the racial% card that only applies to weapon ATK.

But if you put an Andre card(+20 atk) into a bow, I think it will only be added on weapon ATK just like what Jaye explained. Correct me if I'm wrong here

 

p/s Jaye should wrote a book about RO Renewal Mechanic 101

Edited by KirinKishi808, 17 June 2015 - 07:14 AM.

[Kadelia]

This info is on the wiki actually.

Also, yes, archer skeleton and the like (ranged +%) affect status attack, unlike other +% effects. Archer skeleton just wants to be a snowflake. :>

[ka10]

@tamagotchi3890; probably just because no one decided to do it that way in the wiki;

calculations/formulas for atk and such are too simple to warrant the use of that anyways;

just adding some more brackets is good enough to make operator precedence clearer;

[Kupo54]

Lol, i was trying to write something on that line, you beat me on that.

What about the buffs like odin's power and strike ? Are they factored in with the bonus from %atk from cards/ equipments ?

I'm trying to figure out how much better an amdarais card would be than a porcelio for Arrow Storm with high end gears.

 

In most cases that i have seen rangers shouldn't use use Atk% since they naturally have weapon+equip atk

but i also would like to test Amdarais card on my autocast Ranger

Edited by Kupo54, 17 June 2015 - 09:12 AM.

[desukick]

Necro for some questions since I can't find it.

 

About elements. It works for weapon damage right? Then does the refinement of the weapon work with this as well or just the pure weapon?

 

Also the weapon damage we get from str/dex(range) gives .5% per stat. I saw in irowiki it is pseudo elemental. So the weapon damage from stats doesn't work with elements?

[azumak1]

gdi necro, I thought Kaddy was active again. now I'm sad. 

[Ashuckel]

Necro for some questions since I can't find it.

About elements. It works for weapon damage right? Then does the refinement of the weapon work with this as well or just the pure weapon?

Also the weapon damage we get from str/dex(range) gives .5% per stat. I saw in irowiki it is pseudo elemental. So the weapon damage from stats doesn't work with elements?

The entirety of Weapon ATK and Equipment ATK and all its components are affected by element.

STR bonus is a portion of the total Weapon ATK, and follows the above. The ATK gained by str (or dex) in the stat window, known as Status ATK is forced Neutral unless you are under the effect of Mild Wind.

[Handersen]

Alright guys nobel prize for ya all

[desukick]

gdi necro, I thought Kaddy was active again. now I'm sad. 

Oh sorry for that. 

[desukick]

The entirety of Weapon ATK and Equipment ATK and all its components are affected by element.

STR bonus is a portion of the total Weapon ATK, and follows the above. The ATK gained by str (or dex) in the stat window, known as Status ATK is forced Neutral unless you are under the effect of Mild Wind.

 

kinda confused.. str gives 2 types of damage right? the status attack and the weapon attack(.5%)..

 

I know the status doesn't affect element but what about the .5% that will go to weapon damage?

[Ashuckel]

its already answered in the post