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Making an actually challenging mvp


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#76 DestinyTalim

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:41 PM

Try Warlock MVP and you will have a true and sad challenging experience

 

With a few more levels or another reset, my warlock can solo the Evil Snake Lord.  I know he's not a hard MVP, but it's with a warlock.  I can probably solo the Dark Lord and other general element mvps as well.


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#77 DestinyTalim

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:43 PM

MVPs being hitlocked at 12+ cells is like sacrilege to the whole process because you have a situation where someone is soloing an MVP meant for a party, isn't even taking damage from the MVP, and is killing the MVP with no further effort than holding down a button. Everything about this screams "WRONG". This one needs to be one of the first player strategies to get the axe.

 

Other bugging tricks that keep the MVP from fighting back should also always take priority.

 

 

 

 

On another note, how about MVPs all start casting a variation of "Hells' Power" that prevents token of sigfreid usage, but not resurrect? Token-spamming to solo MVPs with earthquake is another strategy that needs to be eliminated.

 

I agree with the 12+ cells away, but I am trying to get there with my Rune Knight, so don't axe that strategy.  At least with a Rune Knight I'd still take damage because of the mobs.


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#78 DestinyTalim

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:45 PM

I would be curious if this were possible with RO's limited abilities, or a lot of other suggestions listed here.  They could probably upgrade monster ai abilities, but given how far behind we are on updates, we probably would never see it.

 

How much different would RO be if RO skills had cooldowns like other mmos or if potions had cooldowns on them?  It would definitely add a different challenge to the game.  No more potion spamming to solo everything.  That would probably piss off half the playerbase.

 

Having a possibility of random variations of a mvp would add a interesting element to the game.  It would have to be part of the instance script since I doubt monster ai could do that.

 

Creative idea.  Given the mentality of some people to prefer soloing everything over partying, it may piss people off.  But, screw them, this is to promote party play!

 

That's because a lot of the instance bosses aren't mvp flagged.  You can tell because they have health bars.

 

More like 99% of them, including me, though I can't solo s**t.


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#79 DestinyTalim

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:49 PM

Even if players use a cheat sheet, the boss could still be challenging if the AI is done right. Also, getting a party of players that each know what they're doing isn't easy. You're bound to come across a Leeroy Jenkins.

 

You mean like Valkyrie Randgris?


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#80 Akupuff

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:52 PM

XD You can use multiquote to quote several people at once. 


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#81 DestinyTalim

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:58 PM

Not from several pages, at least it doesn't let me, and I don't know how.


Besides from what I understand the title it gives you is based on number of posts and I am not a blogger and will never be and I want to get rid of that title as soon as possible.  I should be the Too Legit to Quit.


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#82 Akupuff

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 03:01 PM

The multiquote button should pass from page to page when surfing >.< Maybe something's wrong.

I think the "Too legit to quit" tag is when you reach 1k posts. Don't know if you can change it or hide it.


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#83 DestinyTalim

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 03:07 PM

Can't change it, one reason I am posting so much.  I know it's based on posts, but I still think I should have it, being here since before Renewal and still here.  And no, the multi quote button doesn't seem to work, for me, period.


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#84 Jacqueli

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 01:46 PM

HP inflation, defensive skills (stone skin/DA/etc) are all good ideas.

But if it's a grab a quest, go into a instance, and turn in and claim a reward you can probably afford to script better strategies.

 

 

(Example)

Spoiler

 

You could probably repeat this formula in different ways. Something similar to C'thun in WoW, where players teleport to a place and deal damage to the direct boss and need to switch out with someone else, while the party plays survival on top/killing adds. You can have Amon Ra down a long corridor (Pyrmid) and players need to run through a gauntlet of enemies to get to him, similar to shattered halls kinda or have a Gruul type encounter (fight 4 unique bosses at once that supplement each other causing a strategy of who to kill first, then fight one bigger boss at the end). Heck, you could probably replicate Magtherion really easy

 

You could make it so that the central boss (quest kill objective) is weak but annoying and is just there to harass the party, but more dangerous are the add's that spawn. Making it a gauntlet like encounter to survive wave spawns. Could make scripted that each wave knocks HP off the boss, 10~15 on normal, or 20~30 on hard.

 

With proper script work, and effort you can still do a lot of intresting things in RO that hasn't been bothered before as far as I'm concerned.


Edited by Jacqueli, 30 August 2015 - 01:47 PM.

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#85 Kadelia

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 02:58 PM

I can't seem to shake this "azzylike" title no matter how much I post =/ I'm nothing like Azzy!


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#86 ZeroTigress

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 04:04 PM

I can't seem to shake this "azzylike" title no matter how much I post =/ I'm nothing like Azzy!


PM Campitor and I'm sure he can come up with something that suits you.
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#87 Kadelia

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 04:33 PM

Oh, is that how you have a custom title?


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#88 ZeroTigress

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 05:25 PM

Oh, is that how you have a custom title?


https://forums.warpp...tatus_id=217341
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#89 Xellie

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 12:52 AM

Yeah I took offense to the title too and Campitor invented one for me


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#90 Talvis

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:24 AM

This thread kinda went off course.
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#91 ShinKokuryuu

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 05:49 PM

From jRO videos I saw of nightmare toy factory, the celine kimi boss battle seems interesting.

There is a celine kimi and celine shadow, and if one of their hp falls below the other for too long, its hp will recover back to the hp of the other. Maybe more mvps with unique mechanics like this would be more interesting?

Maybe an mvp that uses weird skills like shadow form and generates multiple manholes over an AoE or something.
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#92 Talvis

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 10:58 AM

In some of the newer  bosses in RO I'm seeing some interesting mechanics.  The first form of Morocc in the Demons Temple, or whatever it's called, will do a powerful heal if you do too much damage too quickly.  Maybe some of the newer skills available will slowly make bosses more difficult.  A lot of these abilities depend on board scripts, I'm assuming, so you couldn't make a stand alone mvp with some of these abilities.


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#93 ZeroTigress

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 12:08 PM

In some of the newer  bosses in RO I'm seeing some interesting mechanics.  The first form of Morocc in the Demons Temple, or whatever it's called, will do a powerful heal if you do too much damage too quickly.  Maybe some of the newer skills available will slowly make bosses more difficult.  A lot of these abilities depend on board scripts, I'm assuming, so you couldn't make a stand alone mvp with some of these abilities.


Copy-pasta?
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#94 Squishyyy

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 07:31 AM

I think giving an MVP abilities like the Masquerades do that go through FCP or more frequent dispell would remove those lazy GTB wearers.

Most of the ideas I've noticed in this thread are same ones I'd come up with. Some are already implemented, but I'd like to see more often

Some general ideas are:

-Wide masquerade ignorance/groomy/weakness/laziness/enervation/unlucky

-remove warg/cart/mech

-divest armor/shield/weapon/garment/acc/headgear (ignores FCP)

-break armor/shield/weapon/garment/acc/headgear (ignores FCP)

-reduce damage from certain skills (Cart cannon/acid bomb/dragon breath etc) for duration at expense of other skill doing more

-Dispell more often

-randomly outright KO someone

-constant ele changes both atk and armor

-switching agro and snapping to random party member (other than tank)

-retreating to heal/ full heal 

-wide SP siphon

-wide HP siphon

-random coma

-a skill that reduces status resistances for a duration

-a skill that reduces ele resistances for a duration

-I liked aku's post about having strategic ways to kill the MVP with mazes and crap. good stuff.

-skill that reduces all party members hp to 1 and sp to 0.

-skill that reflects range damage to whole party

-skill that increases fixed cool downs

-skill that makes attacking/casting/doing anything cost zeny

-skill that prevents you from using items

 

 


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#95 Necrohealiac

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 07:47 AM

I like many of those suggestions but a skill that does 1 hp / 0 sp is not really balanced, especially if it's cast randomly. if anything this should be the "party wipe" skill that can be interrupted if the group performs a certain task in time (think dragging unsealed bapho over to one of the seals for example). otherwise this will just encourage people to use AP in a PvM situation in addition to PvP.
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#96 Sladeero

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 08:34 AM

Necro,

I like the idea of specific tasks to accomplish.

Another option could be to have crests on the ground representing a specific class. When the crest glows the members of the class have to be ones to attack in order for the party/guild to do damage to the boss. Otherwise, the monster takes no damage. As the boss monster goes down on life, less of the crests glow at once. I would also think the boss monster could go into a "berserker" mode unless folks thought that is too hard. The difficulty would be in maintaining synergy of the group to attack. Ultimately, it would require practice and a good conductor/leader.

This could be used to encourage just the main classes or if desired, the extended classes too. The crest light up pattern would be random so you don't know what is next.

Heck if nothing else I could dust off a TKM as sacrificial fodder. LOL J/K

Edited by Sladeero, 10 September 2015 - 08:39 AM.

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#97 Squishyyy

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 08:52 AM

Necro,

I like the idea of specific tasks to accomplish.

Another option could be to have crests on the ground representing a specific class. When the crest glows the members of the class have to be ones to attack in order for the party/guild to do damage to the boss. Otherwise, the monster takes no damage. As the boss monster goes down on life, less of the crests glow at once. I would also think the boss monster could go into a "berserker" mode unless folks thought that is too hard. The difficulty would be in maintaining synergy of the group to attack. Ultimately, it would require practice and a good conductor/leader.

This could be used to encourage just the main classes or if desired, the extended classes too. The crest light up pattern would be random so you don't know what is next.

Heck if nothing else I could dust off a TKM as sacrificial fodder. LOL J/K

Yea how about have some of those classes be extended, plox :B?


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#98 ShinKokuryuu

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 01:37 AM

1. Boss casts stone skin really often / when hit physically

2. Boss casts magic mirror or magnetic earth when hit magically

3. If hit by ranged attacks, boss uses defending aura

4. boss is water property (resist dragon breath)

5. boss has a skill that "marks" players every minute or so. Marked players inflict more damage on the mvp, and the marking disappears every 1 minute.

6. Standard EQ, hell judgement, dispell, agi up and power up for increasing difficulty

 

how about that? sounds pretty tough!


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#99 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 05:03 PM

That just sounds annoying. There's a difference between challenging and punishing.


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#100 ShinKokuryuu

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 06:46 PM

Well it's hard to think of an mvp that doesn't get cheesed easily with small groups of players...

gene + sura or ranger + sura can kill many mvps already, so there's got to be a way for the mvp to:

1. Not take significant AB damage. Either ghost property or low vit.

2. Have a way to deal with ranged damage, which is defending aura or pneuma

Would be great if there were an mvp that requires a large variety of classes to take down...
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