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#626 Kadelia

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:37 PM

Yes these awful 3rd Party programs...

 

Spam problem, check.

Chats / vends just about anywhere, check.

GMs needed some more targeted tools, check.

Classic had server sync problems, check.

Countless Classic enhancements.

Soon to be a new form of /effect.

Soon to be a bot reporting feature.

Soon to have integrated RCX features people want.

Many other things are planned.

 

~Q.E.D.

 

Community you should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

I'd like to point out this is a straw man argument. You're bragging about projects you (may) have been a part of which has absolutely not a freaking thing to do with what I said. The context of what i said is EITHER WAY YOU GO on the AUTOPOT SITUATION (Macro vs automation for your 1st party tool), the result will be culpability for more unauthorized 3rd-party program using players. You're also mixing 1st party and 3rd party. Your entire list is 1st party, or as close to it as Gravity will ever have.


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#627 Inubashiri

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:48 PM

I'd like to point out that there is no I in Team, we all contribute, and actually I could go on further but apparently that's bragging instead of taking pride in you and your teammates work.  We all have our forte niches and work together.  But please continue on bad mouthing us and being a little turd blossom.


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#628 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:53 PM

I'd like to point out this is a straw man argument. You're bragging about projects you (may) have been a part of which has absolutely not a freaking thing to do with what I said. The context of what i said is EITHER WAY YOU GO on the AUTOPOT SITUATION (Macro vs automation for your 1st party tool), the result will be culpability for more unauthorized 3rd-party program using players. You're also mixing 1st party and 3rd party. Your entire list is 1st party, or as close to it as Gravity will ever have.

 

And existing macros such as those you find with peripheral software and things like AHK, which are openly endorsed by WP, don't already do that?
 
Aside from that you seem to be (repeatedly) forgetting that the use of AP is epidemic. People don't need incentive since the community already circulates it and forces legit players into it very well. Either that or off-server.

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#629 Ecclesio

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:54 PM

lol I dunno maybe because you're all scapegoating Sec9 for a thing that may not even happen and totally ignoring all the good they do for the game. -_- would be unplayable without the QoL improvements they've provided, to say nothing of the streamlining we can't see as players, and what they plan to implement in the future.

lol cute.

 

i'm not sure where you got the impression that i was scapegoating them for things that might happen. i haven't even posted in this thread?? so i'm not sure why you're making rash assumptions about my position on the proposed "solution" to autopot. i've never attacked the section 9 people for that so you can stick your dumb assumptions where the sun don't shine.

 

my main issue with the section 9 people (inu most specifically actually) is that they're incredibly passive aggressive, condescending, and combative on the forums when it isn't warranted. they parade around and act like mods, but then backpedal and claim they're not actually mods when things get heated.

 

i don't care if you do some volunteer work for the server, if you're going to be a dick on the forums, don't expect me to worship the ground you walk on.

 

and you know what, i went out of my way and offered an apology to the section 9 people, which i am sure numerous people (even people that hate me) from classic can vouch i have never ever done considering how stubborn i am. but those clowns couldn't swallow their ego and admit that there was a possibility that they *might* have jumped the gun and didn't need to flip a -_- on dr. tame and his dumb topic about the izlude monsters.

 

whatever.

 

in b4 probation/ban for this post doe, YOLO
 


Edited by Ecclesio, 26 June 2015 - 07:09 PM.

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#630 Kadelia

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:58 PM

I'd like to point out that there is no I in Team, we all contribute, and actually I could go on further but apparently that's bragging instead of taking pride in you and your teammates work.  We all have our forte niches and work together.  But please continue on bad mouthing us and being a little turd blossom.

 

There is taking pride in your work (or someone else's) and then there is rubbing it in peoples' faces or using it as an excuse to act pious and defend your condescending mishaviour.

 

 

And existing macros such as those you find with peripheral software and things like AHK, which are openly endorsed by WP, don't already do that?
 
Aside from that you seem to be (repeatedly) forgetting that the use of AP is epidemic. People don't need incentive since the community already circulates it and forces legit players into it very well. Either that or off-server.

 

 

If you make a tool that does it, you sanction it. There are people who don't cheat, and they will switch to doing it if its sanctioned. Once they do, the people who are willing to cheat will use the superior 3rd party ones and will be back to having an advantage, and you're back to square one where honest players are at the disadvantage (and arguably a worse game). It's not a cycle that is going to be fixed by a 1st party tool. If the tool is full automation to compete with the superior 3rd party ones, then people will use it as an excuse to say iRO supports botting and further 3rd party exploits could become more prolific. It happened on pRO-- where bottinng /wasn't/ legal but the playerbase believed it was, and 3rdf party cheating was rampant.

 

I don't feel that auto-pot is epidemic on Chaos-Renewal, and with first party support it probably will be.


Edited by Jaye, 26 June 2015 - 07:01 PM.

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#631 ChakriGuard

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:59 PM

Damn you people ... lol ... so funny and tiny  :heh: 

#<3Jaye 


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#632 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 07:13 PM

There is taking pride in your work (or someone else's) and then there is rubbing it in peoples' faces or using it as an excuse to act pious and defend your condescending mishaviour.

 

If you make a tool that does it, you sanction it. There are people who don't cheat, and they will switch to doing it if its sanctioned. Once they do, the people who are willing to cheat will use the superior 3rd party ones and will be back to having an advantage, and you're back to square one where honest players are at the disadvantage (and arguably a worse game). It's not a cycle that is going to be fixed by a 1st party tool. If the tool is full automation to compete with the superior 3rd party ones, then people will use it as an excuse to say iRO supports botting and further 3rd party exploits could become more prolific. It happened on pRO-- where bottinng /wasn't/ legal but the playerbase believed it was, and 3rdf party cheating was rampant.

 

I don't feel that auto-pot is epidemic on Chaos-Renewal, and with first party support it probably will be.

 

You're making a hell of a lot of assumptions here. You're assuming that players who don't cheat will start cheating, when making it legit will, you know, stop it from being "cheating" in a strict sense. You're assuming the capabilities of this 1st party AP when its existence hasn't even been decided on yet, let alone how it will function. You're assuming a slippery slope argument when AP and full botting are exclusive things that share a single common feature. You're assuming we'll end up like pRO despite our management being much more engaged and focused on delivering balanced gameplay instead of just shoveling MVP cards down our throats, giving things away on GM accounts, assisting players in competitive situations and endorsing RMT with official pricelists (-_- you btw LU). pRO didn't even hold up the pretense of being anti-bot towards the end of its lifespan.

 

If you don't feel like AP is epidemic then you're either wearing blinders or you don't WoE. Probably both.


Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 26 June 2015 - 07:44 PM.

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#633 Inubashiri

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 07:39 PM

my main issue with the section 9 people (inu most specifically actually) is that they're incredibly passive aggressive, condescending, and combative on the forums when it isn't warranted. they parade around and act like mods, but then backpedal and claim they're not actually mods when things get heated.

 

i don't care if you do some volunteer work for the server, if you're going to be a dick on the forums, don't expect me to worship the ground you walk on.

 

and you know what, i went out of my way and offered an apology to the section 9 people, which i am sure numerous people (even people that hate me) from classic can vouch i have never ever done considering how stubborn i am. but those clowns couldn't swallow their ego and admit that there was a possibility that they *might* have jumped the gun and didn't need to flip a -_- on dr. tame and his dumb topic about the izlude monsters.

 

Since you want to address me by name I will entertain a few of your statements, despite all the filth in that I am not even making one attempt to censor you, those who know me can vouch for this, when I choose to be a "dick" as you so colorful put it, you will know it.  Myself and my team mates, because of a slip in planning was prematurely put out on the WP stream, have taken far more flack than you can imagine and I'm talking about being accused of cheating, supporting cheaters, threatened to leave the server and take all their friends with them, the whole 9 yards.  Frankly I don't even know what you're talking about as far as an "apology" or even who you are...I could care less if you worship me or acknowledge anything but the minute you go to the other end of the spectrum you're damned right I will be confronting you and you can take that as passive aggressive or w/e string of adjective(s) you can think up.  I don't even recall addressing you so whats your issue?

 

There is taking pride in your work (or someone else's) and then there is rubbing it in peoples' faces or using it as an excuse to act pious and defend your condescending mishaviour.

 

If the tool is full automation to compete with the superior 3rd party ones, then people will use it as an excuse to say iRO supports botting and further 3rd party exploits could become more prolific. It happened on pRO-- where bottinng /wasn't/ legal but the playerbase believed it was, and 3rdf party cheating was rampant.

 

First, for the 14th time:

 

http://forums.warppo...read/?p=2192574

 

Read the red part.

 

Second, I don't appreciate the words "third party program" and "Section 9" being in the same sentence so close together, THAT is very insulting.  I also don't appreciate the insinuation that myself or any other member is "riding the coattails" of another. 


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#634 Xellie

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 07:52 PM

The ones ppl are posting screenshots for are automation, so any 1st party autopotter will give legitimacy to botting ("I can automate pots, why not killing/talking to npc/buffing?"). If its a macro, it will instead give legitimacy to 3rd party potting automation ("lol autopotting is legal brah" or "prove im not using the macro lolol"). Anything section9 makes will worsen the 3rd party involvement on iRO in my opinion.


 

Yes these awful 3rd Party programs...
 
Spam problem, check.
Chats / vends just about anywhere, check.
GMs needed some more targeted tools, check.
Classic had server sync problems, check.
Countless Classic enhancements.
Soon to be a new form of /effect.
Soon to be a bot reporting feature.
Soon to have integrated RCX features people want.
Many other things are planned.
 
~Q.E.D.
 
Community you should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

is there a list somewhere of all the things sec9 has done and which member did which thing


 

Yes these awful 3rd Party programs...

Spam problem, check.
Chats / vends just about anywhere, check.
GMs needed some more targeted tools, check.
Classic had server sync problems, check.
Countless Classic enhancements.
Soon to be a new form of /effect.
Soon to be a bot reporting feature.
Soon to have integrated RCX features people want.
Many other things are planned.

~Q.E.D.

Community you should be ashamed of yourselves.

There is taking pride in your work (or someone else's) and then there is rubbing it in peoples' faces or using it as an excuse to act pious and defend your condescending mishaviour.

 

I wonder why people even volunteer for iro when extreme pettiness is used to slap them in the face, repeatably. The mods get screwed for millions of reasons. The volunteers for s9 get -_- on for caring about the game and donating their time.

All of these problems that iro has stems from the community. Ever. Single. One.

Thank you for your contribution though. It has helped me learn so much and provided us all with so much knowledge.

 

 

So tired of reading people -_-ting on volunteers. It's not up to Inu if the ACTUAL staff want to ask them to make stuff or not. You don't have to LIKE the volunteers but you should damn well respect them for what they do. (especially if you don't do anything yourself. At least I suppose, Jaye has that semi in her favour, not that it's acceptable for her to attack Inu at every turn. Sometimes it feels like people only work on stuff to try and justify their beef with actual current volunteers)


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#635 Kadelia

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 08:23 PM

There are a lot of unsung heroes of the RO community even if its hosting hide and seek, upodating the wikis, posting guides in the class section, or just answering peoples' questions in community section dilligently every day. They are ALL volunteers. Just because they haven't been given a green title under their name doesn't make them any less valuable to the game. Its volunteers talking to volunteers here, and bootlicking the ones who act like they're more important than everyone else is a problem IMO. You don't like that opinion? Deal with it.


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#636 ShoLin

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 08:29 PM

I'd like to point out that there is no I in Team, we all contribute, and actually I could go on further but apparently that's bragging instead of taking pride in you and your teammates work.  We all have our forte niches and work together.  But please continue on bad mouthing us and being a little turd blossom.

 

There is if it's in Japanese.


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#637 Xellie

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 08:32 PM

There are a lot of unsung heroes of the RO community even if its hosting hide and seek, upodating the wikis, posting guides in the class section, or just answering peoples' questions in community section dilligently every day. They are ALL volunteers. Just because they haven't been given a green title under their name doesn't make them any less valuable to the game. Its volunteers talking to volunteers here, and bootlicking the ones who act like they're more important than everyone else is a problem IMO. You don't like that opinion? Deal with it.

 

Oh, I've been dealing with it from you for years.

 

Inu isn't better than any of the rest of us, but that only means I'll treat her as an equal, not sneer and look down on her like you do to all volunteers. Or holding volunteers to ridiculous staff like expectations and expecting them to mollycoddle every person's offended e-feelings for free.

The problem with democracy, is that it puts every uninformed individual's expectation to be that they believe they are just as valuable as someone armed with all the relevant information. Not once is it ever ingrained into people's mind's that maybe there is just some stuff that they don't know.

 

You're smart, so you can get your head around that concept, you only play dumb when it's able to fuel your soapboxing.


Edited by Xellie, 26 June 2015 - 08:37 PM.

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#638 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 08:33 PM

There are a lot of unsung heroes of the RO community even if its hosting hide and seek, upodating the wikis, posting guides in the class section, or just answering peoples' questions in community section dilligently every day. They are ALL volunteers. Just because they haven't been given a green title under their name doesn't make them any less valuable to the game. Its volunteers talking to volunteers here, and bootlicking the ones who act like they're more important than everyone else is a problem IMO. You don't like that opinion? Deal with it.

 

I enjoy listening to this when I read your posts. Might even say I think of it as your theme.

 


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#639 Kadelia

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 08:49 PM

Oh, I've been dealing with it from you for years.

 

Inu isn't better than any of the rest of us, but that only means I'll treat her as an equal, not sneer and look down on her like you do to all volunteers. Or holding volunteers to ridiculous staff like expectations and expecting them to mollycoddle every person's offended e-feelings for free.

The problem with democracy, is that it puts every uninformed individual's expectation to be that they believe they are just as valuable as someone armed with all the relevant information. Not once is it ever ingrained into people's mind's that maybe there is just some stuff that they don't know.

 

You're smart, so you can get your head around that concept, you only play dumb when it's able to fuel your soapboxing.

 

I'm sorry but your bias is clear. Inu talked down to me, not the other way around. I just fought back. I do not stand for it. She should know better.

 

"Democracy" isn't even relevant here since we don't have it and never did. On occasion there are referendums that are 'influential' at best. And honestly, the worst public opinion gets catered to quite frequently (e.g. 'enrich hammer plox" 'exp event pls', 'janeway again plzzz").

 

If you think I'm smart, stop talking down to me. I am no lesser than you or Inu, and I'd appreciate it if you showed it now and then. We have different skills, I'm not going to respect either of you in a one-way fashion only.


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#640 Xellie

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 09:01 PM

I'm sorry but your bias is clear. Inu talked down to me, not the other way around. I just fought back. I do not stand for it. She should know better.

 

"Democracy" isn't even relevant here since we don't have it and never did. On occasion there are referendums that are 'influential' at best. And honestly, the worst public opinion gets catered to quite frequently (e.g. 'enrich hammer plox" 'exp event pls', 'janeway again plzzz").

 

If you think I'm smart, stop talking down to me. I am no lesser than you or Inu, and I'd appreciate it if you showed it now and then. We have different skills, I'm not going to respect either of you in a one-way fashion only.

 

I shall speak to in which ever tone you are setting the conversation. You repeatedly attack inu, and other volunteers for no apparent reason because you have some bee in your bonnet about people being recognized for their work. Also being smart doesn't make me dislike your behaviour any less

 

Yes, it sucks that the staff weren't willing to follow through with your wanderer hat suggestions

Yes, it sucks that the staff are dumping "official autopot" on Inu

 

It is however, not her fault. Perhaps it's just your abrasive nature leading to people like Inu immediately becoming defensive when you express your derision with the concepts that Inu is given to work on and that is leading to a misunderstanding, but really Kaddy.

 

Stand down. It's so unproductive. We get you want what's best for iRO, but that isn't tearing down other players. I'm not even gonna make this about you and me, but I won't stand by and let you rip into Inu for doing nothing more than trying to help.


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#641 Viri

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 09:18 PM


Stand down. It's so unproductive. We get you want what's best for iRO, but that isn't tearing down other players. I'm not even gonna make this about you and me, but I won't stand by and let you rip into Inu for doing nothing more than trying to help.

 

Channeling Vu? Almost spit out my drink laughing. The resemblance is painful.
 


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#642 Xellie

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 09:25 PM

yawn

 

does your owner have a license viri or are you just rented out constantly?


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#643 Viri

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 09:58 PM

License_b7d433_1034388.jpg

 

 

I have my own dw


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#644 Xellie

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 10:16 PM

"I was just trolling gaiz"


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#645 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 10:21 PM

"I was just trolling gaiz"

 

Smells of Tirades amirite


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#646 ClickClickClick

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 10:31 PM

Man, and you all were on my dick about starting fights for a laugh..


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#647 Xellie

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 10:40 PM

Smells of Tirades amirite

 

RIP thread :p_idea:


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#648 Sabaton

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 02:22 AM

There are a lot of unsung heroes of the RO community

 

https://youtu.be/l8N66bfyRPc?t=1m49s

.
 
 

RIP thread  :p_idea:


Edited by Sabaton, 27 June 2015 - 02:24 AM.

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#649 Ashuckel

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 02:33 AM

26 pages already LOL! i just happened to go play and then this xD


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#650 VModCinnamon

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 05:52 AM

That was very constructive indeed, resorting to personal attacks is not cool and you know it. In addition this thread is supposed to be about Autopot legalization but to some it is an opportunity to attack Section 9 volunteers, drop it off. If you have a problem with any of the volunteers take it up with CM Oda.

 

Since the official feedback thread is up please re-direct your thoughts there. Thank you.


Edited by VModCinnamon, 27 June 2015 - 07:22 AM.
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