109 replies to this topic

[CharasX]

To quote what feuer suggested (well part of it)

Having buff caps that cap off at a certain amount instead of simply having max buff of +65 so on so forth.

Some of the stats which are for important for leveling purposes for example, ap, accu, hp, etc etc, basically almost all the buffs should be capped of, and to improvise, cap of depending on level difference of each player so it won't have a big huge influence on the game. It won't hurt clerics as their buffs are merely enhancements not supportive skills. That and also it would lower down the influence of buffs for the entire part of the game, well, or at least the leveling part of it.

 

If you want an example of how it caps off, look at feuer's suggestion on the proposal page about clerics buffs. Me and angel has already looked at it and so far like it.

 

http://forums.warppo...and-1-big-post/

 

Just exclude the aura version for the time being because it might not be possible for it to be implemented into the game yet as this might be a vision of how future buffs would work. At least that's what i think.

 

Since the leveling cap is kinda off this thread i'll say follow what matt said on level difference but instead maybe have percentages on a certain level difference, kinda like how the noob buff works you know? x level to y level would give z amount of percentage decrease in buffs (i would consider which buffs don't play much a role but still helps in leveling later) which would create an environment that newbies would depends less on buffs.

 

As for heals, i have this idea that i dragged from reading this thread. Having the grp gap of a certain amount. Which, if gapped, creates a stack or some sort (something like how party gap works) that reduces heal power by a certain percentage so max clerics won't just stand there and bot the hell of out the leveling process.

 

Just would like to remind you that the aim of this all is to make it possible for new players discovering the game for the first time to be able to have fun, explore... farm... without having to rely on anyone else but himself... only playing 1 account.

 

What you are talking about is more going towards nerfing the advantages  old players can have over newbs, but this is not the subject. It will not make new players enjoy more the game. So it will for sure make the overall NaROse population grow either.

 

I can see clerics fighting hard to not see their precious buffs being nerfed, but it s really something needed, and to be honest, the players the most affected by it wouldn't be clerics, but stat buffers in general. Even at high level buffs shouldn't be requiered for anything... They should give a lil advantage to the one using it, but nothing more than that. 

[angeltje]

Just would like to remind you that the aim of this all is to make it possible for new players discovering the game for the first time to be able to have fun, explore... farm... without having to rely on anyone else but himself... only playing 1 account.

 

What you are talking about is more going towards nerfing the advantages  old players can have over newbs, but this is not the subject. It will not make new players enjoy more the game. So it will for sure make the overall NaROse population grow either.

 

I can see clerics fighting hard to not see their precious buffs being nerfed, but it s really something needed, and to be honest, the players the most affected by it wouldn't be clerics, but stat buffers in general. Even at high level buffs shouldn't be requiered for anything... They should give a lil advantage to the one using it, but nothing more than that. 

 

My main is FS cleric and i somehow agree that something like slowbob said as idea should be done. To adjust things, nerf would make everything with big changes and making weaker but a little adjustment like this should be fine i think.

TBH we have enough nerfs in the past so one adjustment more, wont hurt that much and it would be better for the bigger picture right XD.

 

keep the ideas coming and there might pop a great solution up. since i agree it should only be an advantage and not a big difference...
 

[CharasX]

Example:

Character A is level 230 - he gets buffed by a cleric: the strength of the "Allstat" buff would scale on Character A's Charm & Mainstat instead of the clerics Charm & Int.With Maxed out Charm (as high as possible) + left points in his Mainstat he would have +65 Allstats

 

Character B is level 50 - he gets buffed by a cleric: the strength of the "Allstat" buff would scale on Character B's Charm & Mainstat (as Visitor only on Charm) + the Buffstrength would be downscaled by 78,26..% (= ((230-50)*100)/230)

 

This would of course mean general stats & scalings would have to be readjusted.

 

Edit: Lowering the overall impact of buffs would be a logical consequence of the whole process.

 

I would desagree, because it wouldn't fix the fact that creating multiple accounts and using cleric buffs are a requierement in order to play this game. It might be ok for you, you might even think it s normal, but for any mmo players who never played Rose evo (or iRose)... this is something that could be qualified as "wtf"... there s not a single other game out there with such a messed up system.

Buff slaves are something for iRose fail system, NARose originally got rid of it... then unfortunatly mistakes have been done in the past... but hey, it s about time to get back on the right tracks, clerics can be more than that.

[CharasX]

My main is FS cleric and i somehow agree that something like slowbob said as idea should be done. To adjust things, nerf would make everything with big changes and making weaker but a little adjustment like this should be fine i think.

TBH we have enough nerfs in the past so one adjustment more, wont hurt that much and it would be better for the bigger picture right XD.

 

keep the ideas coming and there might pop a great solution up. since i agree it should only be an advantage and not a big difference...
 

 

See, this is 100% the problem of this server... and it s because of such a mindset that things sux so badly nowadays. It's not about giving random ideas.... and trying to find something fancy and super complicated to fix the evil problem! Fixes are very obvious and easy to make... there s no need to look around so hard trying to find crazy rocket scientist style new amazing mechanics. 

Now the devs team have been doing this kind of things since so freekin long that they completly lost their way.... Like I said, back to the basic, to a point where we all know this game was a wonderfull success with thousands of players, this is what we should try to get back to.

[iMatt]

I would desagree, because it wouldn't fix the fact that creating multiple accounts and using cleric buffs are a requierement in order to play this game. It might be ok for you, you might even think it s normal, but for any mmo players who never played Rose evo (or iRose)... this is something that could be qualified as "wtf"... there s not a single other game out there with such a messed up system.

Buff slaves are something for iRose fail system, NARose originally got rid of it... then unfortunatly mistakes have been done in the past... but hey, it s about time to get back on the right tracks, clerics can be more than that.

 

How would lowering the impact of buffs not be beneficial the way your suggestions?

 

idea A: let buffs scale by the character itself not the buffer that buffs him (level & statwise)

 

idea B: lower the strength of buffs in general + readjust the original stats of characters theirselves

Edited by iMatt, 30 June 2015 - 07:35 AM.

[KatsuraKujo]

Just would like to remind you that the aim of this all is to make it possible for new players discovering the game for the first time to be able to have fun, explore... farm... without having to rely on anyone else but himself... only playing 1 account.

 

What you are talking about is more going towards nerfing the advantages  old players can have over newbs, but this is not the subject. It will not make new players enjoy more the game. So it will for sure make the overall NaROse population grow either.

 

I can see clerics fighting hard to not see their precious buffs being nerfed, but it s really something needed, and to be honest, the players the most affected by it wouldn't be clerics, but stat buffers in general. Even at high level buffs shouldn't be requiered for anything... They should give a lil advantage to the one using it, but nothing more than that. 

True that it was my intention, nerfing the advantage of old players have over newbies. But doing so will result in what is being discussed in this thread in the 1st place.

 

you see, 1st off, nerfing of old players influence will mean that mobs of a certain range being before you are able to do dungeon or relative to the group level gap would create an environment where the newbies won't be that reliant on buffs as a leveling tool. Literally

 

2nd off, if it is implemented everything up the before possible dungeon leveling point, mobs would have to be nerfed to compensate the system being implemented into the game.

 

3rd off, it would only affect newbies of the game, it will do nearly nothing to the level 200 up players unless there's a planned general buff nerf on all buffs (which is possible of happening but then news has not be broken out yet) since it is such a big influence in the game.

 

4th, i've also said somewhere, i think it wasn't on this thread, to increase the exp reward given by quest so it can be on par with people that level with buffs hitting many mobs at a time. Maybe even stronger to speed up slightly the leveling process. Basically fix the current quest to be more lowbie available for them to level. 

 

Another new suggestion

Well, we need new story based quest. That's all i got. It has been said by many, so far nothing is going in my head.

[CharasX]

How would lowering the impact of buffs not be beneficial the way you suggested things?

 

idea A: let buffs scale by the character itself not the buffer that buffs him (level & statwise)

 

idea B: lower the strength of buffs in general + readjust the original stats of characters theirselves

 

Then I have to reformulate : I desagree with Idea A, and agree with idea B

 

Even if I would prefer character stats not to move, but mobs stats to change... but overall the end result would be around the same "I believe" (can't know for sure without testing it)... but ye.. might by easier to change character s stat curve than to edit every mob s defense and atk.

[KatsuraKujo]

Even if it is time consuming, it would be needed if something as big as what i said to be happened.

[iMatt]

But wouldn't idea A combined with idea B also fix the necessity of buffers in general for leveling?

[CharasX]

But wouldn't idea A combined with idea B also fix the necessity of buffers in general for leveling?

 

I d k, I have a weird feeling about idea A. I would prefer buffs to be straight % to enhance the strength of the buff receiver build, but making buffs be dependant on the receiver charm... it does not seems right... it means that heavy debuff classes like knights or spear champs would have the advantage of their strong debuffs + the advantage of receiving better buffs... this might create a whole new range of balance problems pvm and pvp wise... and as usually debuff heavy classes who spec to charm are also AOE heavy classes, it might be a change that would once again be in favor to mindless AOE botting, unless the scaling with charm is low enough to not make it be a big deal.

 

... but then... why should it scale at all? ;p

 

It s all theories... idea A is hard to evaluate without actually testing it, too many factors to take into consideration.

[KatsuraKujo]

True if it depends on the character's stats instead it would be a huge influence in the entire gameplay. It might not be a good idea, but i guess its a start since we are discussing.

I only like the part where it depends on the player's level, just not the stat part as to what i have suggested.

[iMatt]

I d k, I have a weird feeling about idea A. I would prefer buffs to be straight % to enhance the strength of the buff receiver build, but making buffs be dependant on the receiver charm... it does not seems right... it means that heavy debuff classes like knights or spear champs would have the advantage of their strong debuffs + the advantage of receiving better buffs... this might create a whole new range of balance problems pvm and pvp wise... and as usually debuff heavy classes who spec to charm are also AOE heavy classes, it might be a change that would once again be in favor to mindless AOE botting, unless the scaling with charm is low enough to not make it be a big deal.

 

... but then... why should it scale at all? ;p

 

It s all theories... idea A is hard to evaluate without actually testing it, too many factors to take into consideration.

Then you overread this:

 

This would of course mean general stats & scalings would have to be readjusted.

 

As example:

If the average movmentspeed would get reduced the movementspeed debuffs would have to be reworked too.

 

The scaling would be good make the strength of the current buffsystem (especially the static values) less strong. On that way player's stats would grow naturaly with their strength (=level).

 

It doesn't even have to be like that. It is just an idea in this brainstorming thread.

[TheRealCaNehDa]

Allow premium users to just create whatever lvl char is desired,  
GG leveling is fixed. 

[Feuer]

Well, as my first post back from a 'break' due to someone crying significantly, I must ask a few questions.

 

1: The topic starter has every right to express his opinion so long as he does it professionally.

2: Trying to get a 1 shot fix is not going to happen, as 'leveling' requires many things to achieve.

3: Canehda, pretty sure you know what I'm about to say, so let's stop the games and you just scamper back off to your troll cave, cause you're not helping, nor does anyone find your commentary entertaining. 

Lastly,

Thank you topic starter for sharing. After 3 pages I was surprised to see not a single person thank the OP for their effort in making a post. Instead I actually saw someone mocking him for it. -waves finger- shame. 

[pdfisher]

So, if the designs of the OP is to make solo leveling better, then perhaps the quest rewards should be looked at and revamped. I know the boosters given in some of the progression quests have helped me a lot. Perhaps some of the Hero Quest could also offer something like this? I do know gears would be a help. I do fine until the progression quests are done, then I have to rely on crafting reinforced gears. While they perform adequately, unless I want to craft for hours, I don't always get decent substats to help me.

[Feuer]

I really don't think there was much more than 'i don't like this for 'x' reasons' meant by the OP. Seriously, it doesn't have to be a debate, we all know early stages of ROSE suck when you don't have buffers or money/stat'd items. 

[thetrangdamvn]

Well, as my first post back from a 'break' due to someone crying significantly, I must ask a few questions.

1: The topic starter has every right to express his opinion so long as he does it professionally.
2: Trying to get a 1 shot fix is not going to happen, as 'leveling' requires many things to achieve.
3: Canehda, pretty sure you know what I'm about to say, so let's stop the games and you just scamper back off to your troll cave, cause you're not helping, nor does anyone find your commentary entertaining.
Lastly,
Thank you topic starter for sharing. After 3 pages I was surprised to see not a single person thank the OP for their effort in making a post. Instead I actually saw someone mocking him for it. -waves finger- shame.

Haha true that feufeu. I deciced not to comment anything, OP was completely ignored & someone took over the thread with his assumptions & suggestions again

[thetrangdamvn]

So, if the designs of the OP is to make solo leveling better, then perhaps the quest rewards should be looked at and revamped. I know the boosters given in some of the progression quests have helped me a lot. Perhaps some of the Hero Quest could also offer something like this? I do know gears would be a help. I do fine until the progression quests are done, then I have to rely on crafting reinforced gears. While they perform adequately, unless I want to craft for hours, I don't always get decent substats to help me.

The chance to get max stat has changed during the time I talked to you ingame 2 weeks ago. Should be able to get them easier now.

[VisitorX]

Too much talk. Too little action.

Change the system to fix the obvious issue. Lack of population. Can't solo level without buffs.

[thetrangdamvn]

^ there =))

[Plen]

I don't post here alot, but I do read the forums on a regular basis. I've been around since the beggining, same as a lot of you other players. Back in the old days, when we were all having tons of fun, easy lvling wasn't possible hardly at all. There were a few people that used spark charms etc in the caves, that kind of thing, but for the most part, if you wanted to lvl, you needed a party and you had to fight hard on yellow monsters, maybe orange if you were good. Now some of you are talking about making it even easier to reach max lvl, so you can enjoy the "endgame". I have alot of max chars, have had for ages, and IMO the end game is the most boring thing about this game. The devs are taking the rap for the lack of population, and although I have been disappointed with the lack of more planets etc, the pressure the community has put on them for easier game play has been the biggest contributer to the decline in this game. As a couple peaople already stated, no one is around on the lower maps cause we all lvl so fast. It's already WAY too easy to lvl. Slow it down, increase spawn counts and lower exp per mob. Offer better advantages for a full party than for max buffs. The adventure of lvlnig and earning a max lvl character IS the point of the game. Why make it easier?!? Just my 2 cents (ok, maybe a $1.25 or so)

 

Plentral, MaleOrder, ColdButt, FullyFunctional, BeastofBurdon,,,,,just to name a few.

[VisitorX]

I don't post here alot, but I do read the forums on a regular basis. I've been around since the beggining, same as a lot of you other players. Back in the old days, when we were all having tons of fun, easy lvling wasn't possible hardly at all. There were a few people that used spark charms etc in the caves, that kind of thing, but for the most part, if you wanted to lvl, you needed a party and you had to fight hard on yellow monsters, maybe orange if you were good. Now some of you are talking about making it even easier to reach max lvl, so you can enjoy the "endgame". I have alot of max chars, have had for ages, and IMO the end game is the most boring thing about this game. The devs are taking the rap for the lack of population, and although I have been disappointed with the lack of more planets etc, the pressure the community has put on them for easier game play has been the biggest contributer to the decline in this game. As a couple peaople already stated, no one is around on the lower maps cause we all lvl so fast. It's already WAY too easy to lvl. Slow it down, increase spawn counts and lower exp per mob. Offer better advantages for a full party than for max buffs. The adventure of lvlnig and earning a max lvl character IS the point of the game. Why make it easier?!? Just my 2 cents (ok, maybe a $1.25 or so)

 

Plentral, MaleOrder, ColdButt, FullyFunctional, BeastofBurdon,,,,,just to name a few.

 

It's easy for players that already have max levels. It's not for new players, which is what Rose is lacking. New players.

 

 

In one of my many suggestions I stated they need to make it easy to solo level. Solo leveling without buffs from a high level character is way too boring and takes way too long which is why NEW players are almost non-existent.

 

Cut out the skipping of maps (killing krawfy at lv 1 on full stat buffs), make solo leveling easy, fast, and fun by making it so you don't need buffs. Give rewards to noobies so they feel like they are earning something other than a +1 on their current level. Easy.

[thetrangdamvn]

 

It's easy for players that already have max levels. It's not for new players, which is what Rose is lacking. New players.

 

Every veterans used to be new players, they had to learn how to level, how to adapt to the game.

The current new players should do the same, experience and learn.

Well if it's too hard for them, they're free to leave and find another games which come up to their expectations.

People now keep asking things to be easier, more simple. It's already so easy, and you can't blame on buffs, many people like and wanna play support roles in everygame, they do create muse using wands to start with in ROSE.

 

It is the old players who spoil then, steal their chance to play.

 

It might took me longer than others to level up to 230. But 2 years ago, 1 year ago I leveled up my cleric and raider withou much problem, and of course, without assists from other guys.

 

I admit that the game is currently not so newbie-friendly. But it's not the clerics, buffs or monsters' fault.

In short, it was because of the old players.

 

Who taught newbie to stay afk because I have max cleric?

Who said "we don't need you" or "party full" because they don't need a supportive, non-aoe player in the party?

Who showed them how to bot?

Who guided them to skip maps?

Aren't they old players? Or experienced players?

 

I can still see a guy vending low level crafts EQs in Junon and I really admire him because at the moment, the newbies have no access to those  reinforced or hardened, because they are brainwashed about rushing to 230 and do PvP, dungeons, that everything will be pinky when you're over 200.

 

Trust me, it's boring at the endgame.

 

Too much to say, so I keep my 2 cents here.

 

[VisitorX]

^It's always a horrible idea to tell new players to leave because they find the game too difficult. I don't think you quite understand the problem we are talking about at all.

[pdfisher]

For those of you that are finding it so hard to level at the early levels. Could you give us an idea of exactly which levels you're having problems with? Are you doing the progression quests? Are you doing the Hero Quest? Are you just grinding?