28 replies to this topic

[Ryviux]

For those not aware, Oda confirm this afternoon that the effects for the AHB will stay and will not be change.

[MoyuZ777]

I think at this point the existing effect has been in place on these headgears that it would be better to request new headgears with the same appearance but different effects so that people who have invested in purchasing and upgrading the 1st wave of 3rd Class specific gear will not have the effects of their gear radically change.

This would free us to focus on the fixing of the headgears that do not currently work from the 1st batch and give us something to shoot for with new headgears.

We can make the 1st wave headgears available again with existing effects and add in the 2nd wave with the new (originally intended) effects.

[Kadelia]

For those not aware, Oda confirm this afternoon that the effects for the AHB will stay and will not be change.

 

He said he "thinks" they "should" stay in place, he didn't confirm it 100%, but I'd say its close enough to confirmation, since he is unlikely to change his mind.

 

Just don't trumpet it like a guarantee IMO.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Did he really say that?

 

Confirmed doesn't give a flying -_- about players or competitive balance. New CM and devs that care please.

 

lol they probably thought it would be a good source of income for ores and such, and they do oh so hate to take broken toys away from their crying children, due to some misplaced fear of losing them. kRO thinks the same way. They don't nerf; they just buff buff buff with progressively stronger gear options.

 

Really shouldn't fold to people like that. Imagine if Rito just went "Oh you think Kassadin's OP? Awesome let's buff his R even harder since you guys play him so much, we know what you like!" just because a few idiots complained about losing viability to a proposed nerf or some such bullcrap. Sure Kass players would be happy, but literally everyone else would be crying foul.

 

Which is what's happening here, btw. Totally analogous.

Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 07 July 2015 - 05:29 PM.

[DeadIntern]

Did he really say that?

 

Confirmed doesn't give a flying  about players or competitive balance. New CM and devs that care please.

 

lol they probably thought it would be a good source of income for ores and such, and they do oh so hate to take broken toys away from their crying children, due to some misplaced fear of losing them. kRO thinks the same way. They don't nerf; they just buff buff buff with progressively stronger gear options.

 

I doubt they have the capability to think that far.

 

Chances are, they can't figure out how to fix the effect and is now taking the easy way out by leaving things at status quo. and just redo all over again.

Edited by DeadIntern, 07 July 2015 - 05:36 PM.

[Nirvanna21]

Did he really say that?

 

Confirmed doesn't give a flying  about players or competitive balance. New CM and devs that care please.

 

lol they probably thought it would be a good source of income for ores and such, and they do oh so hate to take broken toys away from their crying children, due to some misplaced fear of losing them. kRO thinks the same way. They don't nerf; they just buff buff buff with progressively stronger gear options.

 

Really shouldn't fold to people like that. Imagine if Rito just went "Oh you think Kassadin's OP? Awesome let's buff his R even harder since you guys play him so much, we know what you like!" just because a few idiots complained about losing viability to a proposed nerf or some such bullcrap. Sure Kass players would be happy, but literally everyone else would be crying foul.

 

Which is what's happening here, btw. Totally analogous.

 

He is taking what is considered the "safe" route.

 

He doesn't wanna piss of current owners, but wants to provide a working hat in the future. He even mentioned a few times over the Stream that he would like to avoid this again by taking in some considerations from the community before agreeing to any changes.

 

His reasons for wanting to get the headgears out in their current state was that apparently he felt the entire project was lagging due to the way kRO had been handling things. Apparently things are getting better little by little in regards to communication with kRO.

 

Anyways, I have mixed feelings about the result but am happy with an answer in general.

 

Just wait until the day they have a confirmed method of bot tracking, that may just destroy the game (literally).

Edited by Nirvanna21, 07 July 2015 - 07:07 PM.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

I actually fired up Tiki to check it out a little while ago. See if I could make sense of his of his answer.

 

Completely lost my -_- when he tried to botcheck a Lv10 Fencer though, so I never got to it. I'm not going to be able to take anything he says seriously ever again <_>

 

Just an fyi, the opinions of current owners shouldn't be the only factor into an objective decision regarding the item's suitability in the game. It's a broken item. It's not meant to be that way. It overpowers the hell out of an already confirmed IMBA skill. "I want to keep it because I think Rangers should remain as they are because I prefer them this way regardless of class balancing" is not a valid argument.

Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 07 July 2015 - 07:30 PM.

[Nirvanna21]

I actually fired up Tiki to check it out a little while ago. See if I could make sense of his of his answer.

 

Completely lost my  when he tried to botcheck a Lv10 Fencer though, so I never got to it. I'm not going to be able to take anything he says seriously ever again <_>

 

Just an fyi, the opinions of current owners shouldn't be the only factor into an objective decision regarding the item's suitability in the game. It's a broken item. It's not meant to be that way. It overpowers the hell out of an already confirmed IMBA skill. "I want to keep it because I think Rangers should remain as they are because I prefer them this way regardless of class balancing" is not a valid argument.

 

But there is no reason not to keep it.

 

You can't use it in WoE. It has no effect anywhere else.

 

That's the issue with your argument.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

But there is no reason not to keep it.

 

You can't use it in WoE. It has no effect anywhere else.

 

That's the issue with your argument.

 

I never mentioned WoE. My entire argument hinges on PvM performance, how it affects class comp, and the issue of AHB being far superior to its sibling hats due to buffing a mainstream skill that in no way requires it.

 

Just fix the damn hat and let people trade it in for KP if they don't want it or something. 500KP for a +9.

[Nirvanna21]

I never mentioned WoE. My entire argument hinges on PvM performance, how it affects class comp, and the issue of AHB being far superior to its sibling hats due to buffing a mainstream skill that in no way requires it.

 

Just fix the damn hat and let people trade it in for KP if they don't want it or something. 500KP for a +9.

 

As far as I am concerned, balancing is needed for competitiveness.

 

I mentioned WoE because PvM shouldn't enter this equation at all. What class competition? PvP? I agree if it effects that then it should be disabled there too.

 

I don't care how mainstream it is. Fun should be greater than balancing with the state that Renewal is in. Give me an example where the AHB combined with a good AS geared player directly effects PvM competition (I will clue you in, I am baiting you for an MVP answer, I have been waiting for this for a few days now).

 

The hat stays as is, and a new one will be made with a second wave of hats (I believe).

[AlmrOfAtlas]

So your argument is that PvM doesn't need to be balanced and that excess buffs are fine even if they invalidate other class picks?

[Nirvanna21]

So your argument is that PvM doesn't need to be balanced and that excess buffs are fine even if they invalidate other class picks?

 

My argument is that certain classes need some love. But let's get this straight, for MVP, world MVPs that is, first to find it is the winner for 90% of them.

 

If I wanted to complain about a skill I think is breaking PvM in regards to MVPs, I would think about the Gene's movement speed skill that allows them to cover a map manually in a matter of minutes. I always feel pretty bad by comparison trying to keep up or even tele bombing to get lucky.

 

In regards to anything not MVP related, what's the issue? I do think some classes need love, but I also will be the first to say that if a Ranger becomes weaker as a result of losing a headgear, then suddenly they are lumped in with the weakened classes.

 

I don't exactly want to see Rangers fall back, more so others classes moving up.

 

And get this one right as well, I don't see instance solo'ing as game breaking, because you are doing it for yourself in the end. If the instance was shared, that's an issue **cough Thanatos cough cough**

[3452140212150117003]

I also will be the first to say that if a Ranger becomes weaker as a result of losing a headgear, then suddenly they are lumped in with the weakened classes.

 

I don't exactly want to see Rangers fall back, more so others classes moving up.

wait are you seriously saying that? Just want to make sure before i choose ignore this thread. (well i plan to :x ,, but that argument tho)

[Nirvanna21]

wait are you seriously saying that? Just want to make sure before i choose ignore this thread. (well i plan to :x ,, but that argument tho)

 

Seriously, does no one realise how paper thin a Rangers usefulness in leveling is at higher levels?

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Rangers are by no means weak without AHB. Before that hat was put in they were still on top of the world with regards to PvM.

 

Totally agree about Genes. Movement buff needs to be comparable to AGI Up, not perma-speedpot. CC needs a rework too XD

[Nirvanna21]

Rangers are by no means weak without AHB. Before that hat was put in they were still on top of the world with regards to PvM.

 

Totally agree about Genes. Movement buff needs to be comparable to AGI Up, not perma-speedpot. CC needs a rework too XD

 

I just sometimes wonder if people play the same game.

 

My memories of Bio4 leveling, aside from two players (G A N J A and Acolyte), everyone else wanted one of the following:

• more RKs
• SS or Thana Rangers (or Rangers who could at least 2-3 shot Randels without using No Limits).

If you couldn't 2-3 shot Randels without No Limits, they were pretty reluctant to invite a Ranger, seeing as they could use the space for more useful classes (aka better killers). Bio4 is still the best leveling spot in Renewal for 175.

 

The only other way was to be part of guilds who ran a lot of guild focused groups, and a lot of those Rangers had access to MVP bows which made it easier.

 

It was bloody difficult to find parties when you were second fiddle to another class even WITH the AHB xD

[AlmrOfAtlas]

I thought you hated partying.

[Nirvanna21]

I thought you hated partying.

 

I do, but I wanted to level and play with some of my friends at the top ;D

 

I tried soloing scarabs but it was slowwww

[DeadIntern]

I just sometimes wonder if people play the same game.

 

My memories of Bio4 leveling, aside from two players (G A N J A and Acolyte), everyone else wanted one of the following:

• more RKs
• SS or Thana Rangers (or Rangers who could at least 2-3 shot Randels without using No Limits).

If you couldn't 2-3 shot Randels without No Limits, they were pretty reluctant to invite a Ranger, seeing as they could use the space for more useful classes (aka better killers). Bio4 is still the best leveling spot in Renewal for 175.

 

The only other way was to be part of guilds who ran a lot of guild focused groups, and a lot of those Rangers had access to MVP bows which made it easier.

 

It was bloody difficult to find parties when you were second fiddle to another class even WITH the AHB xD

 

I'll have to disagree with you on this one.

 

Firstly, I'm sorry that your bio4 experience isn't that good, but I think most of the bio 4 parties that I encountered so far are pretty decent. The only arguments that recur are that rangers are too reckless (by running ahead of tankers) or they're auto-attacking, or they stopped AS-ing (a party actually kicked me out halfway for this, when I was actually reloading arrows and rebuffing). Damage wise, however, not so much.

 

Secondly, I do think arrow storm damage is high enough as it is. Of course, having another 35% damage boost won't hurt, but as a hybrid ranger, I'd rather use a +9 Vana for continuous SP supply rather than having larger AS damage. 

 

Thirdly, there other leveling maps where rangers can go and solo too. I mean, there're still other classes that are not even invited for bio4 unless they have gwings, nor they can solo by themselves (like Warlock, Shadow Chasers, Wanderers too probably?). So I guess I'm happy enough to be able to solo in places like OGH, CT, Faceworm, Nid, Devil Tower, etc.

Edited by DeadIntern, 07 July 2015 - 09:57 PM.

[Nirvanna21]

I'll have to disagree with you on this one.

 

Firstly, I'm sorry that your bio4 experience isn't that good, but I think most of the bio 4 parties that I encountered so far are pretty decent. The only arguments that recur are that rangers are too reckless (by running ahead of tankers) or they're auto-attacking, or they stopped AS-ing (a party actually kicked me out halfway for this, when I was actually reloading arrows and rebuffing). Damage wise, however, not so much.

 

Secondly, I do think arrow storm damage is high enough as it is. As a hybrid ranger, I'd rather use a +9 Vana for continuous SP supply rather than having larger AS damage. 

 

Thirdly, there other leveling maps where rangers can go and solo too. I mean, there're still other classes that are not even invited for bio4 unless they have gwings, nor they can solo by themselves (like Warlock, Shadow Chasers, Wanderers too probably?).

 

Now there is Nightmare Clocktower. It still isn't as good exp wise mind you

 

Maybe Bio4 has changed? It has been 4-5 months since I was there last.

[DeadIntern]

Now there is Nightmare Clocktower. It still isn't as good exp wise mind you

 

Maybe Bio4 has changed? It has been 4-5 months since I was there last.

 

Lol I know. But at least I can kill in peace, without being kicked for reloading. I'm just waiting til they put CT bounty

 

and yeah, I think now that most of the WoE players have reached 175, the parties in bio4 are slightly less competitive.

Edited by DeadIntern, 07 July 2015 - 09:59 PM.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

and yeah, I think now that most of the WoE players have reached 175, the parties in bio4 are slightly less competitive.

 

^ lol this. Things have changed immensely since back then.

[Nirvanna21]

^ lol this. Things have changed immensely since back then.

 

Be right back, need to change my boxers!

[Memoir]

Reading all this makes me want to make a vid of how to solo bio4. It's not as hard as you think if you know what to do.

I think I've seen too many topics about this headgear alone.

Rangers are blessed with so many different types of arrows and traps(elemental and status effect). I guess people(rangers and non rangers) forgot about them because of arrow storm. I also blame janeway.

Reminder: monsters are not immune to status effects or use green pots.

Edited by Memoir, 08 July 2015 - 02:47 AM.

[Kadelia]

Its sort of an assumption to assume anyone who spent money +9ing the headgear is greedy and can't see past their own nose for what is good for the game. It may be a fairly safe assumption, but its still an assumption. I own a +9 autumn and I still support changing it to a trapper's hat as originally promised.