15 replies to this topic

[Feuer]

With all the hype, I wanted to address this.

 

Why are Boosters / IM Restoratives allowed in Open World PvE, but not Dungeon PvE? 

 

They're essentially the same circumstances, so why the change in rules? I mean, playing any DG aside from SC without a FS is asking for massive wipes and failures, it cannot be done on Red Potions alone.

 

So, what's the deal? I mean, it's AI combat, and nothing is different from open world PvE. In fact, it's pretty much exactly the same. Kill mob, mob gives exp/item, move to next target. 

 

If anything, the Boosters and IM Consumables should be made allowed in DG's, and even PvE Potions created for purchase in the Valor shop. I mean, there's Honor Potions for PvP Game Arena mode's. So why not for Valor? 

 

In fact, I plan to make another thread addressing all of the DG + PvE oversights that PvP got favored on. Everything from 50% gear selection compared to PvP, Jewelry favoritism, and Potions. But that's another discussion. 

 

For now, I think the following changes should be in order.

 

1: Allow Boosters + IM Consumables in DG's.

2: Remove the 'Buff Clearing' from entering a DG. This includes boosters + FAIRY's. It's impossible enough to get them, but to lose them 2 minutes later when you enter a DG is just so far beyond annoying it makes me want to strangle a puppy. And no I'm not joking.

3: Add PvE Buff Potions + Restoratives to the Valor shop in the following denominations.

 

Small HP Potion: 25% HP Healed [2 Valor]

Medium HP Potion: 50% HP Healed [4 Valor]

Large HP Potion: 75% HP Healed [5 Valor]

-repeat process for MP-

PvE Preparation Potion: 10% PvM Resistance [20minutes] 25 Valor

PvE Potency Potion: 10% PvM Offense [20minutes] 25 Valor

PvE Party Preparation Potion: 10% PvM Resistance [20minutes] 100 Valor

PvE Party Potency Potion: 10% PvM Offense [20minutes] 100 Valor

 

Also, add the materials for all ammunition crafts into the Valor shop. It's really, REALLY frustration to get a 50-75ap reduction because you used all your ammo in Dungeons, and didn't get 1 single material to craft more. 

 

[Castanho]

Because it's suposed TO HAVE  Support class on the group, Feuery. Why not make pvm boosters that give +60% a.power and 200% aspeed too? Then a cleric could play a dungeon without needing hitters, tankers.. 

Boosters sucks pvp and would sucks pvm too.

 

Also for pvp there should be only 2 types; Allowed buffs(clerics only) and no buffs( seriously, NO buffs).

If you can't find clerics to play pvm so it means something are wrong... even cleric being a hard class to play/level or at least was suposed to be. Something are'nt making the class convidative anymore... (If we don't consider all the old player clerics and now the ridiculous staff buffers)

 

Instead, what they should do is; expand the dungeons group to a limit of 10 or at least  7 players. 

5 slots make it hard to a only cleric with 4 players if the cleric don't got the dungeon mechanics.

Also make hard to everyone having 2 clerics what means better heals and sustain but less hitter and if you consider getting newbies in the group... well.. it will probably end with group leaving the dg.

Edited by Castanho, 12 July 2015 - 09:25 AM.

[Feuer]

I was already planning a prop for a 'mythic' dungeon. 10 man to 15man team. I'd be taking into account this whole healing business and building the DG around many various aspects, but the end result I wanted was that it would NOT require* a cleric, but be beneficial or more timely to have one. 

Edited by Feuer, 12 July 2015 - 09:43 AM.

[Castanho]

Well. I still can't agree with boosters in any way. Theres a class caleed cleric with heals and buffs and all classers have their own buffs. So any type of booster, pot is a shame. 

 

Anyway, about a dung with 10~15 members... 

[Feuer]

The only purpose I see as a legitimate use, is when you're lacking a cleric or class buffs. Even with everyone knowing that class buffs are just plain better, they still refuse to get them. 

[Castanho]

The only purpose I see as a legitimate use, is when you're lacking a cleric or class buffs. Even with everyone knowing that class buffs are just plain better, they still refuse to get them. 

 

Nah, idk i see the classes buffers everywhere.

Now its normal having a spot with cleric,soldier,hawker,dealer to provide buffs. Idk why they made it. It kinda insane and ilogic. They did a great balance at the game and now this... pff. Anyway, it's not a topic related. 

[Feuer]

I was referring to no one who regulars DG's has self buffs for the most part. 

[TheRealCaNehDa]

why don't you like puppies? 

[TheRealCaNehDa]

On a very serious note, the devs really need to look at this thread, and do absolutely everything you said here. 

[thetrangdamvn]

In my opinion, the only problem which makes it hard to finish any DGs beside SC, is: Heals

Let alone the crafted pots, we can run dgs pretty fine with class buffs, but the obstacle here is heals.

 

All comes down to 3 bosses which I think, we need heals while fighting them: Ulverick, Mummy King, Mammy Queen

Normal battle against them requires quite a lot of heals, red pots alone can not help it.

By normal battle I mean without charm type spear, which could fight kings another way.

 

I once asked why foods are not allowed in dungeons, and someone told me: "DGs will be broken"

I agree with her at one point: Clerics (FS) will leech more than ever.

 

It's good to use foods when FS are not around, but when they do, it's whole lot different. Pretty sure you've noticed many leeching FS in SC.

I used to complain when we arrived at Executor and buffs are running out, asked her to come and buffs and she raged upon us, saying that "I'm teaching you the right way to do SC; You 4 go suicide and come here I'll buff". Oh well...

[pdfisher]

Feuer, if they would make special buff pots for dungeons, like they did for the PvP games, wouldn't that make the crafted ones obsolete?

[thetrangdamvn]

Feuer, if they would make special buff pots for dungeons, like they did for the PvP games, wouldn't that make the crafted ones obsolete?

 

I think he meant this:

 

 

PvE Preparation Potion: 10% PvM Resistance [20minutes] 25 Valor

PvE Potency Potion: 10% PvM Offense [20minutes] 25 Valor

PvE Party Preparation Potion: 10% PvM Resistance [20minutes] 100 Valor

PvE Party Potency Potion: 10% PvM Offense [20minutes] 100 Valor

[pdfisher]

I think he meant this:

 

Wow, do they have ones like that for PvP?

[angeltje]

Wow, do they have ones like that for PvP?

 

yup at one of the honor shops, i believe the frog one .

[KatsuraKujo]

1. Wouldn't boosters make the game even more rely on buffs? I mean look at the PvP arenas. That and dungeons now as well require buffs yes, but not necessary. I played with my mage yesterday, and the party didn't have a cleric. I manage to get the 2nd boss spider to about half health just by constantly attacking it and dying. Its just a matter of patients

 

2. As trang said, buffs isn't exactly the problem, its the heals. The attack about all the mobs can do is quite high, especially when it comes to the boss of each room. It hits so hard that you almost can't survive without buffs or heals.

 

It would be against this idea

[Feuer]

Wow, do they have ones like that for PvP?

 

No they don't. They has Combat Battle potions that are similar to regular buff potions from Artisans but slightly weaker.

 

I made those as a suggestion, because fighting mobs has more wiggle room for feeling 'dominant' than in PvP. Plus, some of the situations in DG's requires something a bit more specialized in terms of resisting or damaging targets.

 

For example, the Cursed Swords in SoD have 10,000AP; and inflict 'true damage' meaning their AoE isn't checked or resisted by anything. 10k Damage is 3/4 to 4/5's of a Raiders HP Bar. Even if you use a Red Potion after one hit, the very next WILL kill you. That doesn't take into account Talratha himself.

 

Another is that the Dark Shamman in SC, has an absurd amount of magic defense, making Mages who normally do 3-5k, do 600-800. Pierce seems to do nothing for a Mage as they only have the Gem option for 5% pierced. [Which is why in one of my more recent suggestions, I requested that the Sorcery Tree stack be changed to Pierce Resistance instead of Resistance Down.] Having a 10% Offense in this situation will benefit the Mage/BC more than any other option could.

 

Also, in the end it seems that some type of buffer or healer is always going to be required for Dungeons, it would just be nice to alleviate that strain slightly but usage of these.