92 replies to this topic

[Darel]

Alright, thanks for the info.

Beside the removal of those 2 items... will there be anything else on tomorrow's maintenance (like W-Coins http://forums.warppo...tyle_emoticons/default/icon_puppyeye.gif )?

Edited by Darel, 23 November 2010 - 09:47 PM.

[Thuy]

Does Barunson feel that the scoulcrafting rates are a bit too difficult? Especially now that randomizers/extrators will increase in price, some people might go back to the traditional SC method of obtaining stats..

there's no way regular soulcrafting will be cheaper than randomizing, unless you get 100% success in soulcrafting!

Edited by Thuy, 23 November 2010 - 09:47 PM.

[Yurai]

there's no way regular soulcrafting will be cheaper than randomizing, unless you get 100% success in soulcrafting!

Unless you're trying for 3-4 good stats.

[AccelSynchro]

lol r u guys serious? purposefully changing the economy is just wrong. It would be wrong to just immorally change everything so that the buyers who bought IM points would get screwed up becuz of your statements. IF u were in our shoes playing the stock market i would just sit fairly square and not reason anything of not being tradable which can really tick off people who even think that prices are way too high, or sellers who just lost $100 that would also quit Dragon Saga for THEY ARE THE BIG BUYERS unlike u guys who buy only mere amounts. I would sit still and stay patient until barunson thinks of a new price. Randomizer sellers are the same as u sitting ducks out there too. Also, our economy will definitely not fail, its just that people ARE TOO LAZY TO TRAIN AND FARM AND GRIND for gold becuase THEY THINK ITS TOO HARD. If there was an exp event for holidays, it would make a more balanced economy since people would start TRAINING. Well this is all in my opinion and lots of others who deny the purposeful act of ceasing prices or even making them untradable. This is not like real life where we lose our jobs and game over. This is a GAME. AN MMORPG for pete's sake. WE CAN GAIN OUR MONEY BACK BY TRAINING unlike irl where we WORK OUR BUTTS OFF OR ELSE YOUR BOSS FIRES YOU.

[ApeKing]

lol r u guys serious? purposefully changing the economy is just wrong. It would be wrong to just immorally change everything so that the buyers who bought IM points would get screwed up becuz of your statements. IF u were in our shoes playing the stock market i would just sit fairly square and not reason anything of not being tradable which can really tick off people who even think that prices are way too high, or sellers who just lost $100 that would also quit Dragon Saga for THEY ARE THE BIG BUYERS unlike u guys who buy only mere amounts. I would sit still and stay patient until barunson thinks of a new price. Randomizer sellers are the same as u sitting ducks out there too. Also, our economy will definitely not fail, its just that people ARE TOO LAZY TO TRAIN AND FARM AND GRIND for gold becuase THEY THINK ITS TOO HARD. If there was an exp event for holidays, it would make a more balanced economy since people would start TRAINING. Well this is all in my opinion and lots of others who deny the purposeful act of ceasing prices or even making them untradable. This is not like real life where we lose our jobs and game over. This is a GAME. AN MMORPG for pete's sake. WE CAN GAIN OUR MONEY BACK BY TRAINING unlike irl where we WORK OUR BUTTS OFF OR ELSE YOUR BOSS FIRES YOU.

The only way money is introduced into the game is from quests (which are not worth crap in money), copper drops (have fun doing that to get 100 gold) and NPCing stuff which didn't used to be that bad. The only reliable way to make money is to sell stuff on open market, so telling people to JUST GO GRIN AND TRAIN doesn't work as well as you think.

[AccelSynchro]

just hope that barunson will figure a way out for randomizer sellers and buyers. (reasonable price setup...)

[Suzudan]

lol it just went from like 50g back to 20g in a couple of minutes on the market

[Mikay]

time to store away those aim rate equips then too. Personally I'd still pay around 20-30 IM points per randomizer,
but then again sometimes you chew through hundreds of them just for one stat but meh whatever

selling too many of these items at such a low price point will cause major imbalances in game

I believe that the damage has already been done... If you want to consider it "damage"

Edited by Mikay, 23 November 2010 - 10:21 PM.

[Maronu]

If they are cheap then everyone and their dog will have top gear. Like Yurai said before "If by fun you mean nobody dying".

The problem isn't cost. The problem is how many there are already floating around before this change happens. Ive seen shops with STACKS of them. STACKS. Nine hundred ninety nine. Selling for 50 gold a pop. And you know what the problem with this is? People WILL buy them for that amount. Since the soul-crafting rate is so insanely bad right now, it would be cheaper to down 1000 gold on 20 of them then try an soulcraft your equip 20 times. This is gonna lead to a group of incredibly rich people in game.

I'm all for the removal of these things. Unfortunately its too late now.

Pretty sure it's not a big deal to the companies if there are incredibly rich people in game. Otherwise why would they announce that this is the last opportunity to buy them at this price. They don't care if people get rich in game as long as they are making lots of IRL money. People can stockpile them or get another chance to because they announced that there is going to be a price change. They could have made them untradable before announcing the price change, but as you said to late now.

And yes, ape. I would rather everyone have insane gear and hardly be able to kill each other than have more imbalance between cash players and non cash players. Does perfect armor make it nearly impossible to kill someone with a perfect weapon? I'm not sure. If it does, a solution could be to change the pvp rules for battlesquare and ew. Disallowing food items and pots might help, or possibly reducing certain stats in pvp so that people die more easily. But then again, when has any change ever been made in this game for the purpose of pvp balance?

We are both in agreement that the problem here is the change in how easily certain things can be obtained. In fact, random changes are what have caused most of the imbalance and complaints in this game. Did pallys need a buff? Not really. Did bone weapons need to be nerfed? No, people spent money on those. Why nerf them? Did we need randomizers in the first place? No, they made getting good stats to easy. Did soulcraft rates need to be changed? Most would probably say no. Did the way character cards work need to be changed? No. The way they work now makes no sense. Did skill forges need to be removed? No, they were reimplemented.

Perhaps Barunson is using some sort of "randomizer" to figure out how to make this game profitable. I certainly wish our opinions and proposals as players were taken more seriously, or that we could receive more information about some of these decisions than just "Barunson feels ____ is imbalanced and has decided to change it"

Yes, the people who stocked up on these randomizers and heavy cash spenders will dominate if the randomizers become expensive. When aspects of the game are consistent and not changed randomly, the game is more balanced. Even when there is imbalance that lies withing the foundation of the game, if things stay the same, players are able to get used to it. I really get annoyed by a lot of the random changes that occur in this game because as a player I want for things to be fun, consistent, and fair, and I want to know when changes are going to take place in advance. Maybe it's not our place as players to know why Barunson makes certain decisions, but it would definitely be nice if they would work together with us to help provide the most enjoyable experience possible and take player opinions about some things seriously. We are their customers, and it is there job to keep us happy, so that we will spend money on the game.


My suggestion:

If Gravity really wants to be fair and have balance, I would recommend, without warning, making the randomizers untradeable and unusable, and giving everyone who purchased them cash points as compensation or even an optional refund for their cash purchase. At that point the randomizers are not in the system, and the price can be changed with minimal balance issues.

Edited by Maronu, 23 November 2010 - 10:24 PM.

[ApeKing]

Pretty sure it's not a big deal to the companies if there are incredibly rich people in game. Otherwise why would they announce that this is the last opportunity to buy them at this price. They don't care if people get rich in game as long as they are making lots of IRL money. People can stockpile them or get another chance to because they announced that there is going to be a price change. They could have made them untradable before announcing the price change, but as you said to late now.

And yes, ape. I would rather everyone have insane gear and hardly be able to kill each other than have more imbalance between cash players and non cash players. Does perfect armor make it nearly impossible to kill someone with a perfect weapon? I'm not sure. If it does, a solution could be to change the pvp rules for battlesquare and ew. Disallowing food items and pots might help, or possibly reducing certain stats in pvp so that people die more easily. But then again, when has any change ever been made in this game for the purpose of pvp balance?

We are both in agreement that the problem here is the change in how easily certain things can be obtained. In fact, random changes are what have caused most of the imbalance and complaints in this game. Did pallys need a buff? Not really. Did bone weapons need to be nerfed? No, people spent money on those. Why nerf them? Did we need randomizers in the first place? No, they made getting good stats to easy. Did soulcraft rates need to be changed? Most would probably say no. Did the way character cards work need to be changed? No. The way they work now makes no sense. Did skill forges need to be removed? No, they were reimplemented.

Perhaps Barunson is using some sort of "randomizer" to figure out how to make this game profitable. I certainly wish our opinions and proposals as players were taken more seriously, or that we could receive more information about some of these decisions than just "Barunson feels ____ is imbalanced and has decided to change it"

Yes, the people who stocked up on these randomizers and heavy cash spenders will dominate if the randomizers become expensive. When aspects of the game are consistent and not changed randomly, the game is more balanced. Even when there is imbalance that lies withing the foundation of the game, if things stay the same, players are able to get used to it. I really get annoyed by a lot of the random changes that occur in this game because as a player I want for things to be fun, consistent, and fair, and I want to know when changes are going to take place in advance. Maybe it's not our place as players to know why Barunson makes certain decisions, but it would definitely be nice if they would work together with us to help provide the most enjoyable experience possible and take player opinions about some things seriously. We are their customers, and it is there job to keep us happy, so that we will spend money on the game.


My suggestion:

If Gravity really wants to be fair and have balance, I would recommend, without warning, making the randomizers untradeable and unusable, and giving everyone who purchased them cash points as compensation or even an optional refund for their cash purchase. At that point the randomizers are not in the system, and the price can be changed with minimal balance issues.

Im not sure if youa re trying to disagree with me or not because this is pretty much my point <__<

Edited by ApeKing, 23 November 2010 - 10:44 PM.

[Maronu]

Im not sure if youa re trying to disagree with me or not because this is pretty much my point <__<

Nah, rereading our posts, I think we pretty much agreed on everything. I was just adding on. I just want them to finally stop changing things. I love this game, but honestly, I feel like half of all the decisions that have been made for the purpose of balance have been implemented in a very poor manner, and they have ended up being counterproductive. Imo, Gravity needs to really man up and take things into their own hands.

[Yurai]

My suggestion:

If Gravity really wants to be fair and have balance, I would recommend, without warning, making the randomizers untradeable and unusable, and giving everyone who purchased them cash points as compensation or even an optional refund for their cash purchase. At that point the randomizers are not in the system, and the price can be changed with minimal balance issues.

I'd love to get some actual cash for items that I purchased with gold! Or am I missing some clever way of massively rolling back randomizer sales and refunding the original person?

[ApeKing]

Nah, rereading our posts, I think we pretty much agreed on everything. I was just adding on. I just want them to finally stop changing things. I love this game, but honestly, I feel like half of all the decisions that have been made for the purpose of balance have been implemented in a very poor manner, and they have ended up being counterproductive. Imo, Gravity needs to really man up and take things into their own hands.

Barunson knows nothing of balance and it has been that way from the start, if you remember. And I thought Gravity DID take over and was calling the shots for this game now, but apparently not, and that really REALLY disappoints me. While Warp Portal and Gravity Inc. are doing a far better job than THQ*ICE ever did, the publisher wasn't the only problem. Barunson has made many...deplorable decisions with this game. The fact that they continue to overpower an already overpowered PvP class, continuously nerf and bait&switch another, and just plain ignore most of the rest signifies they have either completely lost their minds, dont CARE what their fans think, or the word "balance" means something completely different in Korean and no one has had the heart to tell them yet.

I pray its that last one.

I'd love to get some actual cash for items that I purchased with gold! Or am I missing some clever way of massively rolling back randomizer sales and refunding the original person?

Good Christ dont even TYPE that word.

[Maronu]

I'd love to get some actual cash for items that I purchased with gold! Or am I missing some clever way of massively rolling back randomizer sales and refunding the original person?

I would think you could get item mall cash for them, but getting real money would require proof of purchase.

Edited by Maronu, 23 November 2010 - 11:43 PM.

[Endbringer]

Good Christ dont even TYPE that word.

Maybe Gravity should ROLLBACK the servers to the day randomizers were released.


(Please note that the above statement is a joke, Thanks. - Management.)

[ApeKing]

Maybe Gravity should ROLLBACK the servers to the day randomizers were released.


(Please note that the above statement is a joke, Thanks. - Management.)

BARUNSON NEVER JOKES. YOU HAVE DOOMED US ALL ENDY.

[Hakupaku]

At this point, selling them at a higher price will just cause more imbalance. This will just leave people with cash to be put far ahead if the price is too high.

I believe that the damage has already been done... If you want to consider it "damage"

This

[Endbringer]

BARUNSON NEVER JOKES. YOU HAVE DOOMED US ALL ENDY.

Hope you haven't done much these past few weeks!

[jayeto]

ok question if there going to remove these said items and release them at a later date AT A HIGHER PRICE wouldnt that i dont know..........SCREW THE ECONOMY EVEN MORE!? hell i bout randomizers (and still have alot left thanks to a friend quiting yay!!) and was selling mine for 13g each for 50. but ive seen these items in the IM for 60 and 25 if your gonna raise the price ergo your gonna see the price shoot through the roof 1. when they get removed and 2. when they come back at a higher price. and i do see everyones point on the whole "hey you can build a god character with some cash/gold" but when you do this little plan of yours its going to screw over the newer people in the game prolly border on badly since the only way to get these items is IM ONRY!! so why do this? has there been major complain from the pvp community? have people been complaining about being godly in stats? i mean yea ill admit ive only been here for a couple of weeks so no i dont know all the ropes yet (still looking for a good teacher) but i have played plenty of MMOs to see when you do something like this your gonna create a large gap between cash players and f2p players which usually leads to the game becoming empty since the only people that will stay here really are the very small crowd thats been here since day one and the people that dropped mass amounts of cash into the game and have godly characters aswell. so i ask whats the point in doing this if your going to shoot yourself in your foot?



oh btw they said these items will gone after maintenance then it took some digging to see that its at 3pm (thank you to the person this from that stated that SINCE THEY DIDNT SAY WHEN IT WAS!!!!) but is that 3pm NA west coast? im east coast since this is why im asking.

Edited by jayeto, 24 November 2010 - 12:35 AM.

[Taomang]

Why werent they afraid of imbalance when only a few people could get kimart wings? Or when they increased damage to paladins? Or when they decided invokers should receive 1 amount of damage in pvp?

But when it comes to randomizers causing imbalance its already late for that as some people already got stats they needed to overpower everyone else. The only thing that could save non cash users is the current cheap price of randomizers making them available for everyone.

The reason people buy them is because they are relatively cheap. And i dont think theyre worth more because you need to go through hundreds of them to get the stats you need. And the current cheap price prevents cash users from making too much gold from selling them.

Edited by Taomang, 24 November 2010 - 12:37 AM.

[Maronu]

I had really high hopes during beta when we were getting constant moderator replies to bug reports and proposals, but this seems to be turning into THQ all over again. I would love to spend money on this game again, but with things always changing without any warning, I really don't see much of a point. If Barunson wants to just look at stats (how much money they are making) and spam randomizers (implement random changes), until they get stats that they like, I guess that's fine. However, the cost of all those random changes adds up, and I'm not talking about the cost to implement the actual changes, but rather the money lost from unhappy customers.

Hey, Barunson! You might eventually get amazing stats, make an insane amount of money, and finally make the game balanced and fair, but if you keep just implementing random changes, your game will never be perfect! You need to listen to players and work with them. Talk to us about why you are changing things and listen to our suggestions. Player satisfaction is like insurance. It will keep the game from breaking and failing. This game is special, but it isn't even close to legendary. Players have some good ideas about what needs to be changed and which aspects of the game need to be kept. Reduce the negative aspects of the game and keep the positive. Don't take the easy way out and just randomly change things, praying that you will get a combination of compenents that will work together. Have some pride, and stop being cheap. Taking the time to listen to players and specifically change the negative aspects of the game might be more costly or require more work, but in the end it will be more rewarding, and you might actually create a perfect game! ;3

[Severfang]

gravity is the one that listed the original prices of randomizers, they wanted the game to be as balanced between cash and non-cash players as possible, BARUNSON was worried about their income, yes gravity owns a majority of the company, but the way i see it, barunson has been the driving force behind the cash shop from the start, my suggestion to barunson:

leave everything the way it is, its fine, our rates are low for enchanting and soulcrafting, our publisher owns you, the north american server is already imbalanced from thq, leaving randomizers cheap is going to get you more money than upping the prices, people are just gonna farm for new equips instead of feeding the cash beast, also, nobody was buying soul reducers (from what i know), so there was no point in taking that out. i'm disappointed in barunson, but honestly... gravity could have stood up a little more for us. Randomizers are great, we want them, people will always spend money on them, and they're used within 48 hours of their original purchase (usually). It was already a cash cow, but now... you've blown it

[iKnowMyABCs]

Barunson caring about balance is like fob asians caring about math in Canada.

[Severfang]

Barunson caring about balance is like fob asians caring about math in Canada.

exactly which is why they want to up our prices

[xandiel]

The item will remain on sale until the maintenance period begins. So this is your last chance to purchase these items at this price point, so please take advantage while you can.

everyone loves last minute sales, it's like early christmas...

Edited by xandiel, 24 November 2010 - 01:53 AM.