109 replies to this topic

[Coolsam]

So, please, tell me:

What sockets are socketed here? Are there sockets on this item? Are they active or destroyed? What cards are socketed on the active sockets? What enchants does this item have? What duration?

 

2602881441857532, 36028801441857536, 295839780376576, 1087362

 

You have one day to tell me. And there is nobody you can ask, because nobody knows.

Let's see when you're ready with it

 

This long period of debate's main reason was the difficulty in actually accomplishing it due to this developer change. While I've pointed out the great progress on WarpPortal being able to accomplish their own things, you guys were still restricted to a degree. Even if the development change is completed, nothing is overnight success with it. I clearly understood that once the process is complete it could take long periods of time. In a case like this, it's obvious that several factors for each Ragged Set has to be explored for each Ragged Set out there. You have to investigate tons of accounts and characters and explore those factors on each and every set found.

[sean718]

I would have explored the option of reducing the g2 6* element bonuses from (single element) 1.2% to 0.2% etc. 

 

The bonuses of the g2 6* element cards would correspond to the level of the equipment similar to how the g2 stat cards correspond to the level. 

 

No socket is fine though. I'm sure most people will just put them on g2 gloves and shoes on main equipment and use them in lower level BSQ.

Edited by sean718, 28 July 2015 - 07:30 AM.

[UraharaStore]

I would have explored the option of reducing the g2 6* element bonuses from (single element) 1.2% to 0.2% etc. 

 

The bonuses of the g2 6* element cards would correspond to the level of the equipment similar to how the g2 stat cards correspond to the level. 

 

No socket is fine though. I'm sure most people will just put them on g2 gloves and shoes on main equipment and use them in lower level BSQ.

Agreeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!

[reqt]

So, please, tell me:
What sockets are socketed here? Are there sockets on this item? Are they active or destroyed? What cards are socketed on the active sockets? What enchants does this item have? What duration?

2602881441857532, 36028801441857536, 295839780376576, 1087362

You have one day to tell me. And there is nobody you can ask, because nobody knows.
Let's see when you're ready with it.

The production team didn't know how the solution will look like at the beginning. If it could be managed to "decrypt" these numbers.

I always told everyone that it's worked on a solution and that the production don't want to have socketable IM items/sets in the game. So again - you should have seen this coming.

Firstly, i was asking an honest qn. You're getting abit too agitated... Also rmb the ero set incident? Server was down 2 min after. This incident happened on the 2nd week ragged was released meaning that players had one week to get ragged set (non tradable/nonscoketable). Could temporarily replacing the set like what was done for ero set been a possible solution if they the numbers cant be figured out? I just want to clear my doubts. Sorry if I sound rude or anything.

Edited by reqt, 28 July 2015 - 08:23 AM.

[Popcorn]

 Also rmb the ero set incident? Mini rollback was done. This incident happened on the 2nd week ragged was released meaning that players had one week to get ragged set (non tradable/nonscoketable). Could temporarily replacing the set like what was done for ero set been a possible solution if they the numbers cant be figured out? I just want to clear my doubts. Sorry if I sound rude or anything.

 

I remember the Ero's set incident. You may think there was a rollback by intention, but it wasn't. There was a "rollback" because there was one of the "database not saving" issues shortly after the Ero's set mistake. This was purely a coincident.

 

As for the Ragged Set, we weren't aware of the socketing ability. No one noticed it until Sean718 reported one day that this set is socketable. After this report we immediately took the set off the game.

 

The production team doesn't do rollbacks on purpose because they cause more harm than they help.

[reqt]

Sorry I edited my post earlier. Rmbed that the rollback just so happen to occur 2 weeks after. And thanks for clearing up since I was under the impression that because a huge fuss was made on the 1st day ragged became socketable, that the team knew abt it as well. Seems like that wasn't the case. Thanks for being patient and answering my doubt.

[Rabbicarpo2011]

So, please, tell me:
What sockets are socketed here? Are there sockets on this item? Are they active or destroyed? What cards are socketed on the active sockets? What enchants does this item have? What duration?

2602881441857532, 36028801441857536, 295839780376576, 1087362

You have one day to tell me. And there is nobody you can ask, because nobody knows.
Let's see when you're ready with it.

The production team didn't know how the solution will look like at the beginning. If it could be managed to "decrypt" these numbers.

I always told everyone that it's worked on a solution and that the production don't want to have socketable IM items/sets in the game. So again - you should have seen this coming.

you need to relax popcorn, I know things like this are agitating but you need to be more professional about your responses. You're not being cornered by anyone, there's no need for this type of reply toward reqt. Not just this one but most of the ones prior. "Mr. Google Guy"? Really? keep it professional. You are a volunteer mod after all. As for the ragged set, I assumed it would happen, just not this late.

Edited by Rabbicarpo2011, 28 July 2015 - 09:32 AM.

[SoulSight]

I have no idea where "Mr.Google Guy" comes from. *going out a bit of topic*

[Popcorn]

I have no idea where "Mr.Google Guy" comes from. *going out a bit of topic*

 

However, maybe I misinterpreted this a bit. I think it wasn't that offending as I first thought.

Edited by Popcorn, 28 July 2015 - 09:41 AM.

[ohsnap]

No surprise at all here 8 months to address this issue a bunch of insights and debates over this and still this is how wp is addressing this issue with no thoughts on the time and money spent on the cards. I've prepared for the worse having a back up IM set ready. However I can only blame myself for having high expectations that wp would address this issue more thoroughly given the 8 months that they used. This has a been a real hell of a year for this game 8 months to address a ragged ghost issue that should've been addressed much earlier, a 2 week long roll back due to database errors, a unique item set being in the market, a 3 week long bugged pet issue, etc. After wp received the development rights to this game are you really going to punish the players that spent hundreds if not thousands to stack their characters and support this game for taking advantage of the "bugs" you guys failed to address? I know problems will come by very oftenly but at least address them more professionally and no offense to Popcorn but your past few posts really symbolizes this lack of professionalism. If things get out of hand locking the topic and stopping the heated conversation as a mod is more expected than talking back and arguing with players. As a vmod I expected more professionalism and maturity from you. 

[Homurasan]

 

[...] taking advantage of the "bugs" you guys failed to address?

 

Ya, that's a bit why I would have suggested anything but a compensation. I can guess that putting time into making use of a mistake from WP has to be retributed somehow though, since some people are complaining about these sockets being removed when it had been announced for quite some time now.

 

Also, as you stated in your post, Popcorn is a volunteer mod, not a GM, and asking for as much 'professionalism' from him as from a WP employee sounds a bit over the top. I also kind of like the fact that he didn't lock the topic right away, nor did any GM, which only tells that Warpportal is listening to the players' complaints and that their staff is trying to find a solution that will bring the greatest amount of "good" for the lowest amount of "bad". Call it as you wish, but to me they're something along the lines of "open-minded".

Unlike most other publishers, they actually know that repressing any form of protest won't bring any good. But, as most other publishers, they also know that they have absolute power over their game, and that they have the right and duty to apply any rule, patch or other they deem necessary.

 

As a side note, I have trouble understanding why this particular abuse doesn't seem to be anything shameful to so many people, even though it divided the weaker and the stronger on the criteria of possession of one particular set that was discontinued and unexchangeable.

 

Edited by Homurasan, 28 July 2015 - 10:52 AM.

[SoulSight]

And again, people make mistakes. That's all for the answer.

[Laburey21]

If things get out of hand locking the topic and stopping the heated conversation as a mod is more expected than talking back and arguing with players. As a vmod I expected more professionalism and maturity from you. 

 

I also kind of like the fact that he didn't lock the topic right away, nor did any GM, which only tells that Warpportal is listening to the players' complaints and that their staff is trying to find a solution that will bring the greatest amount of "good" for the lowest amount of "bad". Call it as you wish, but to me they're something along the lines of "open-minded".

 

Indeed, the mods who lock a topic at the first sign of trouble are those who are cowards and/or bigots and/or mindless company-puppets. And there are lots and lots of such crappy forum mods around the internet. Personally I think some honest feelings and open discussion is a good thing, even when it gets a little heated.

 

And again, people make mistakes. That's all for the answer.

 

I still say WP's continuing mistake is that the lack of information flow. More frequent and more informative updates about what's actually going on behind the office doors and what's actually being worked on would improve things a lot, at least that's what I think.

[Coolsam]

I still say WP's continuing mistake is that the lack of information flow. More frequent and more informative updates about what's actually going on behind the office doors and what's actually being worked on would improve things a lot, at least that's what I think.

 

This is something brought up quite often. As Popcorn is only a VM so I understand if he can't give the proper information. We often don't get a lot in terms of information about what the plans are for Dragon Saga. It seems like now WarpPortal wants to fix mistakes.

 

Also 8 months in regards to Ragged Ghost being socketed and exploited is bothering players?

 

Here's Soulcrafted New Origin Accessories. A problem since early in their release. Although future versions are unsoulcraftable and soulcrafted ones can be obsolete if you got the Xmas accessories, they do exist. But it's not complained about due to the reworks to aim/evade where they'd be an issue.

 

Here's Downshifted Fire/Water Guardian. Still not addressed for existing pieces. They've existed since Profession's release. Again, no longer an issue due to their advantage in Aim/Evade now obsolete. Players don't bring them up because it's not something bringing a major imbalance.

 

Now let's look at Ragged Ghost. A major balance issue currently is elements. Exactly one of two advantages the set gives is additional element sockets. As well as additional 6* element sockets. It's other advantage? Additional first sockets. Including +%Max HP sockets and other sockets that stay the same regardless of level version.

 

Even with [Best]Unity being a hybrid of Ghost Buster+Devil's Agility more players would prefer having a well-socketed Ragged Ghost set over it. Players are getting the sockets back and as sean718 said; People will likely use them on normal gear for stacking perms. Is this the best solution? Probably not as the costs to make a Ragged Ghost set godlike are intense and possibly wasted. Is it at least a solution to tone down this set? In my opinion I think so.

[Popcorn]

As Popcorn is only a VM so I understand if he can't give the proper information. 

 

I'm not a pure VM anymore. With my "jobchange" to DS Fungineer I work close with the production team (I mentioned this in another topic already) and I am aware of most important informations and I tell the community when I am allowed to.

Since the possibility to fix the ragged set has become available not long ago the final decision to fix it this way had been made just when I told you. That's the reason why nothing has been told before, just because it wasn't clear what the solution will be. Now it has been decided and could have been posted.

 

That's the only reason why I only told you that a solution is been worked on.

 

 

Edited by Popcorn, 28 July 2015 - 12:11 PM.

[sean718]

I'm not against removing the ragged sockets. But I am against the disregard of consideration to the general outcry of the community.

 

Some players have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours farming. Some have spent hundreds of thousands of gold. Some have spent vast amounts of real life money. Yet these players seem to be outspoken by others simply saying, well, WP can do what it wants. 

 

Yes. That's true. They can do whatever they want. However, to me, it's completely nonsensical to remove the sockets due to the simple fact that there are other ways to resolve the issue without generating a public outcry.  

 

As I've stated before. The dev team can have a much easier time to reduce the g2 6* bonuses on the element cards to correlate with the level (1-30), severely nerfing their usage in pvp rather than completely foregoing all of the efforts players made before hand. They could even reduce it to .01%  and I'm sure the community would prefer that then look at all of their efforts/time/money go to waste for the purpose they intended. WP could also then further release sets with the socket option if they so wish, I'm sure those would sell very well. And they wouldn't be pay to win. 

 

Furthermore, it is irrational to say that, players have been informed that ragged sets will have sockets removed, but completely misinterpret the competitive nature of PvP in this game. If one player gets a socket filled, other players will do so to try and keep up. 

 

The fact that g2 cards will still remain with the same bonuses as g8 cards even when the sockets are removed isn't at all resolving the issue since these cards can still be socketed to low level gear and be used in PvP. 

 

I do believe and agree that the most frustrating thing is communication between staff and players. There is virtually none besides ticketing. And of course no one would prefer to do things out of their job description just for the sake of helping so you are then referred to do something else. That's fine and understandable, but then again, this is what separates game companies from the great game companies. 

 

But I digress, if someone officially said, "Hey look. We know you guys farmed a lot, spent a ton of money and gold, but we're removing these sockets because we honestly believe that it's better for the long run. We're also working on a few ways we can compensate you guys for the problems this has caused." Then I would more than ok with it. But as far as I know, there are no such messages from anyone in any such tone.

Edited by sean718, 28 July 2015 - 12:37 PM.

[Fliederduft78]

 

• If you have invested money / gold and cards to socket this set and you still own it we will compensate back what you spent for the socketing
• If you have purchased an unsocketed set from another player via trade or in-game market and you have socketed it yourself we will compensate back what you spent for the socketing but not what you paid for purchasing the set

 

I think it's pretty clear that the people that socketed the set will get all stuff back (gold, IM, insurances, cards).

So nothing is lost except the time farming the stuff...

Even players who purchased an unsocketed version the last time will get everything back they used for socketing it.

 

So argumenting players will lose stuff they invested for socketing this set is invalid, they get all of it refunded. So all regarding this part will be just fine.

 

Poppie, just to be sure........the enchantments and soulcraftings of the particular Ragged Sets will stay as they are, right?

Like....untouched?

 

 

 

 

[sean718]

I think it's pretty clear that the people that socketed the set will get all stuff back (gold, IM, insurances, cards).

So nothing is lost except the time farming the stuff...

Even players who purchased an unsocketed version the last time will get everything back they used for socketing it.

 

So argumenting players will lose stuff they invested for socketing this set is invalid, they get all of it refunded. So all regarding this part will be just fine.

 

Poppie, just to be sure........the enchantments and soulcraftings of the particular Ragged Sets will stay as they are, right?

Like....untouched?

 

I hope you are taking into consideration that this is basically a rollback of months of farming. The players don't lose the cards, they lose the purpose for what they farmed the cards for. 

 

That in itself is not invalid. 

Edited by sean718, 28 July 2015 - 12:42 PM.

[Popcorn]

So argumenting players will lose stuff they invested for socketing this set is invalid, they get all of it refunded. So all regarding this part will be just fine.

 

Poppie, just to be sure........the enchantments and soulcraftings of the particular Ragged Sets will stay as they are, right?

Like....untouched?

 

Yeah, everything besides the sockets (Enchant Level, Soulcrafting Options, Grade) will stay untouched. And everything what you've needed to create the sockets and the socketing itself will be refunded  (except time and electricity bill     ) as long as you still own the items and you were the one who made the sockets and the socketing

Edited by Popcorn, 28 July 2015 - 12:43 PM.

[Homurasan]

I believe that even without the element socket cards being this powerful, regular cards (%HP for example) would still be a problem. They aren't that difficult to earn since it's mostly an afk job though, so I'm kind of at a loss.

 

I... kind of like the idea of element cards becoming very weak at their lowest grade instead of removing sockets. It would be more optimization than outright game balance breaker, and still cope with the users who don't quite like the idea of having lost the time they put into it.

Edited by Homurasan, 28 July 2015 - 12:55 PM.

[sean718]

I believe that even without the element socket cards being this powerful, regular cards (%HP for example) would still be a problem. They aren't that difficult to earn since it's mostly an afk job though, so I'm kind of at a loss.

 

I... kind of like the idea of element cards becoming very weak at their lowest grade instead of removing sockets. It would be more optimization than outright game balance breaker, and still cope with the users who don't quite like the idea of having lost the time they put into it.

 

I've failed to mention that % cards should be reduced in relation to their level as well. I was simply focusing on the highlights of pay2win and the PvP aspect. 

[ivey558]

About the compensation of the Ragged set:

 

If someone, say, like me:

 

1. Spent 13k IM to randomize the 10% mspd on the shoes,

2. Spent 25k IM to randomize 5% hp/ 18% critical rate/ 6% aim/ 5% mp. on the back piece

3. Spent 10k IM to +20 and legend the 6 pieces.

4. Spent 5k IM to Extract and Re-soulcraft certain pieces for desired stats.

 

So approximately 53k IM spent on 1 set (not gonna say how many sets I've spent IM on). 

Technically speaking, I WILL get my 53k IM back when the effects take place right?

If not, we may have a real problem in hand.

Someone "official" needs to confirm this with me.

Edited by ivey558, 28 July 2015 - 01:50 PM.

[Popcorn]

About the compensation of the Ragged set:

 

If someone, say, like me:

 

1. Spent 13k IM to randomize the 10% mspd on the shoes,

2. Spent 25k IM to randomize 5% hp/ 18% critical rate/ 6% aim/ 5% mp.

3. Spent 10k IM to +20 and legend the 6 pieces.

4. Spent 5k IM to Extract and Re-soulcraft certain pieces for desired stats.

 

So approximately 53k IM spent on 1 set (not gonna say how many sets I've spent IM on). 

Technically speaking, I WILL get my 53k IM back when the effects take place right?

If not, we may have a real problem in hand.

Someone "official" needs to confirm this with me.

 

1. Stays - No refund needed

2. Stays - No refund needed

3. Stays - No refund needed

4. Stays - No refund needed

 

You will keep the set you have now. Just without the sockets.

 

Edit: And for sure you will get the socket cards back and everything you spend on creating sockets/socketing.

 

Edited by Popcorn, 28 July 2015 - 01:52 PM.

[ivey558]

Why didn't you say "Stays" for #4? Isn't it the same because it also "stays" on the set? (EDIT* I see what you did there, edited your post too)

Removing the sockets = crippling the set. Hm. This reminds me of something.

Make an extremely desirable product, profit from a targeted group of consumers, ruin the product (self-destruct button? any Austin Powers fans out there?), keep all the money.

Let's be ethical here and not miss any main points. People spent money on the set because of its potential.

Why didn't I spend over 500USD on, say, a Naughty Little Devil set or heck, even a Devil's Agility set?

3 words. I'm Not Retarded.

Why does the investment king, Warren Buffett, invest in some companies and completely disregard the rest? 

3 words. Hes Not Retarded.

 

I for one, am not against whatever the company decides to do. But if you are saying I am fine with putting 500USD+ on some once useful IM set, you surely made a mistake there. Because I guarantee you, good sir, that I'm Not Retarded.

 

It's different from the progression of MMO and releasing newer and better sets. Now, if you released a set thats BETTER than the Ragged Ghost set, I would get it without complaint, and think that my 500USD + on the set was well spent because theres something better now and I have something better to come after. 

 

You need to talk to the team about how the compensation works to avoid any further complaints from the general public.

Edited by ivey558, 28 July 2015 - 02:21 PM.

[winter1993]

Wow, I'm really glad I didn't start putting sockets in mine. It would have all gone to waste. Well I guess this is a good thing...

 

Popcorn, no offense but you they're right, you need to be a little more sensitive about these issues. They're players, so its inevitable that they'll complain. It does no good trying to retaliate. I hope you can be more professional in the future :c

 

I just hope all the players whom wasted their time, money, and effort for this set are properly compensated...

Edited by winter1993, 28 July 2015 - 02:34 PM.