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Item/Skill Overpowered Checker--Idea


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#1 Sladeero

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 09:07 AM

Hello Everyone,

 

Was thinking today about how ideas are brought up.

 

IDEA: enable a means to refine proposals for items, skills or anything else so they are "not" as overpowered, (yes I have had some myself) due to pure ignorance of what has worked and been approved in the past.

 

CRITERIA:

From observation the following areas seems to be factors (yes, I know this is not an all inclusive list and other criteria may get used in its place):

 

1) Potency: the strength of an item or skill based on it's purpose. (e.g. add +10% to Arrow Storm)

2) Availability: which characters and classes is the skill and/or item available too. (e.g. Classes vs. Class & Class vs. sub-classes)

3) Occurrences: how likely is the ability of said skill/item to happen. (e.g. very low, 0.1%, chance to occur vs. 2% occurrence)

4) Correlation:  does this correlate to another aspect for which it is intended. This one can be tricky since flaws can be found this way which could overpower skills in which it was not intended for.

 

SUMMARY:

Looking at this in a similar fashion to a stat build for a character, let's say you get 100 pts. The more you put in one category the less you have for those other areas. The submitter could answer a few questions within each category. In the end, a score would be given determining how overpowered the item or skill "could be." At the end it would give a spectrum break-out for the submitter of where their idea(s) lie at.

 

For example:

1) 10%  

2) 30%  

3) 60 %

4) 20 %

* it would flag any areas which would lead the 100pts/% to be over 100. I have to think there are times when folks submit things and do not realize how lop-sided the suggestion is. This would help mitigate that and possible ensure any area does not go over XX%.

 

Example: your skill or item is 120 Pts/120%, please adjust in order to conform to a total of 100 pts/%.

 

This would not be intended as a "silver bullet." It would be used to refine suggestions before they are submitted. Please think of it as a sanity check before submission. The tool could be hosted through iRO or off a secondary website depending on who would want to control it.

 

IN CONCLUSION: the criteria would be based on feedback from the community and any other RO applicable staff. Sure, developing the criteria would be the most difficult part. In the end, when a proposal comes through we could ask, "Did you run it through the checker?" Finally, this is just an idea to try and simplify, streamline and encourage consistency as much as possible.

 

Just some thoughts.  :D


Edited by Sladeero, 27 July 2015 - 09:08 AM.

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#2 RichieDagger

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 10:09 AM

The point values should not be fixed, they need to vary based on the prerequisites to use the item/skill. So, if you had an item that scored 120, rather than scaling back the effects to make it acceptable, you could increase the level requirement or add some drawback. Scaling effects with mana cost & mana weight in Magic would be a good analogy, if that means anything to anyone here.


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#3 Kadelia

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 10:13 AM

All proposals should simply be criticized by pessamists and naysayers and you should realize the critics are completely impartial to your idea (They dont love it like you do, so minus bias) and their advice to nerf it is probably justified. What I usually see is any constructive criticism is 1) ignores or 2) met with heated resistance.

You'll note when I propose things there is no resistance/highly critical evaluations of what I proposed. Because I have a good idea of balance to begin with. Wbhile others output tRO/pRO level overpowered things and there are several pages of blowback to it, leading to the poster getting all hot and angry and saying fine, I withdraw my creativity from the community.
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#4 Sladeero

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 10:43 AM

RichieDagger,

 

Good point on the adjustable scale. Certainly this was not meant to be a concrete item but fluid and adaptable.

 

Jaye,

 

This was not intended to remove the interaction which takes place on the forum. It is there to augment it. Additionally, it provides a standard (even if subjective to a point) similar to using a benchmark and having a discussion that way. This way newer users could see visually where the idea is lacking as well. This is why I say it takes those who have been here a while, folks like you, on this. My hope it would decrease (it would not eliminate) the "he/she said." I am no stranger to impartial, constructive feedback. As I said on another thread, whether a person agrees with an input there is always something positive to be gained/learned from. I know I appreciate the work all of the long-standing members put in.  :happy:

 

Good feedback everyone, thank you.

 

-Sladeero


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#5 ZeroTigress

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 10:57 AM

Such a filter is not necessary since it all boils down to whether or not kRO wants to implement a proposal. Seems they reject most proposals anyways.
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#6 Sladeero

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 11:00 AM

Such a filter is not necessary since it all boils down to whether or not kRO wants to implement a proposal. Seems they reject most proposals anyways.

 

Understand, it's unfortunate we cannot get a more clear target and criteria from the parent organization.

Point taken, I knew it certainly was a stretch but had to try. LOL


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#7 RichieDagger

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 11:32 AM

This is, more or less, what I was dancing around here , here , and here . If someone wanted go through the trouble of vetting it out, it could be a good touchstone for community created items before exhibiting it to public scrutiny. You would first have to break down all exiting items and make them fit the system, within an allowable tolerance. Then determine how many points each effect would be worth. Then you could cross reference how many points are alloted to an item based on level requirements. Other factors would also have to be taken into consideration, such as upgradability, weight, stat requirements/penalties, etc.


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#8 ZeroTigress

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 11:38 AM

Understand, it's unfortunate we cannot get a more clear target and criteria from the parent organization.
Point taken, I knew it certainly was a stretch but had to try. LOL


I'd say your suggestion is more appropriate for the developers themselves since they don't seem to do a lot of power checks when it comes to items they introduce to the game.
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#9 Kadelia

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 12:05 PM

Btw my opinion is that narrowing down a gear to specific classes does not add any power points to an item whatsoever.

Like if you're item is "guillotine fist damage +50%" that item is equally overpowered whether it says "all jobs" or "sura only". Either way its only going to be used by sura.

The purpose of class restricting items is to make effects that overstep class roles from being deemed destructive. For example, back in pre renewal, bone helm is a super high def headgear. Its only equippable by swordie, merch, thief, because the other classes aren't supposed to be good at tanking, and making this all jobs would surely blur that line.

So its that rather than adding points to the power of the gear, its to prevent you from stating an otherwised fair effect is bad because it ruins class roles.
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#10 Kadelia

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 12:10 PM

This was not intended to remove the interaction which takes place on the forum. It is there to augment it.


I may have been unclear; I was not saying your intent was to remove this interaction. I was stating this interaction currently does not happen correctly or enough, and that any proposed guidelines should reinforce the need for heavy peer review., particularly, review from people who don't agree with the content creator. The last thing a project leader needs is a bunch of "yesmen".
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#11 RichieDagger

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 12:22 PM

Btw my opinion is that narrowing down a gear to specific classes does not add any power points to an item whatsoever.

Like if you're item is "guillotine fist damage +50%" that item is equally overpowered whether it says "all jobs" or "sura only". Either way its only going to be used by sura.

The purpose of class restricting items is to make effects that overstep class roles from being deemed destructive. For example, back in pre renewal, bone helm is a super high def headgear. Its only equippable by swordie, merch, thief, because the other classes aren't supposed to be good at tanking, and making this all jobs would surely blur that line.

So its that rather than adding points to the power of the gear, its to prevent you from stating an otherwised fair effect is bad because it ruins class roles.

 

I agree that class restrictions generally would not give or take points so long as it's not enabling any particular class to do something completely outside of their typical roles.  Cross-class items would be fine, but they would have to be more of a novelty and have some special rule, like triple the point expendeture of all the effects on the item or something. Color pie would be another Magic analogy to apply here.
 


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#12 behemothjr

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 08:16 AM

New Item idea

Torn page from the Necronomicon.

Summons random Undead/Demon MVP.

Would that be considered overpowered.
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#13 behemothjr

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 08:18 AM

Sorry for previous double post.

Edited by behemothjr, 29 August 2015 - 09:56 AM.

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#14 mrricebox

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 01:08 PM

Can I see it being overpowered? Not really, as long as it's not your typical monster drop. Can I see it being implemented? Unfortunately, no. Even if it were to be a cash shop item, the amount of OP MvP cards dropping because of this would be insane. A lot of highly sought after cards are from Demon monsters - Thanatos, Tao, FBH, and Beelze, to name a few. It's like a more selective BB that would allow people to farm the MvPs they want more often. I'm assuming you're asking about this because you're an ME AB (good to see you back btw XD), and indeed it would provide them with a good leveling alternative, but I don't think they would implement it simply because it's too easy to abuse.


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#15 Joatmon

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 01:25 PM

How is this guy back on forum's o.e
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#16 mrricebox

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 03:05 PM

Iunno but I need more behemothjr in my life. It's been a lonely couple weeks here without him.  :heh:


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#17 behemothjr

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 09:00 AM

  I just find it very sad that the Priest class has the least to benefit from Bloody Branches.  Maybe one day this game will become more Balanced.   I just think our class deserves a way to summon MVP's consistently that allows us to be more on par with other MVP Top tier classes.

 

I am already a super tank and plan on tanking any MVP I can kill.  Here is my char me in Britoniah 1 cause people requested it. Level 2 will come when the monsters aren't red.

 

http://s000.tinyuplo...887623371786070

 

https://youtu.be/WDJ4t7X0Lf8


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#18 Kadelia

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 10:20 AM

There is no reasons to make bbs targetted at specific classes unless you do it for all of them. Like expanded jobs, performers? Even royal guards, sorcerers and mechanics have a smaller pool of mvps they are effective at than say, genetic, sura, or guillotine cross.
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#19 Joatmon

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 11:41 AM

Jaye, leave him be, you know how arguments with him turn out


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#20 DestinyTalim

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 03:03 PM

I would like that item too, but they could disable drops to prevent farming of the overpowered cards.  There are already areas with no drops, so it wouldn't be too hard to implement.


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