89 replies to this topic

[Aeriseth]

Is the fire sale going to be just in Classic server? Or does Renewal also get them?

 

 

[Elaine]

Another extremely disappointing maintenance. Anything actually accomplished this week? Just some 'behind the scenes' type work for a challenge dungeon that should have been in months ago?

 

Each week the 'regulars' are logging in less and less. 

Also, if the compensation for downtime is an increase for VIP bonus only that's really sad. You have to pay to get the compensation now?

[Naman18Tandon]

Is the fire sale going to be just in Classic server? Or does Renewal also get them?

Is the firesale added?

[Psicratus]

Another extremely disappointing maintenance. Anything actually accomplished this week? Just some 'behind the scenes' type work for a challenge dungeon that should have been in months ago?

 

Each week the 'regulars' are logging in less and less. 

Also, if the compensation for downtime is an increase for VIP bonus only that's really sad. You have to pay to get the compensation now?

I have no word to express how I agree with this post. It's so cohesive, powerful, objective, direct... And it bears the truth.

 

I try to defend the staff, but they are making it really hard lately.

[Themes]

Do something, I'm giving up on you

 

I'm starting to feel the same. We've had a year or two with a broken patcher and they dont seem interested in fixing it. We got Nidhogg over Christmas in place of a Challenge Dungeon and it looked like we were going to get the Challenge Dungeon finally but we havent heard anything about it for three weeks now. I understand that there's only so many people able to work on iRO and that there's now three servers each with their own issues but cmon.

 

The GMs initially had a plan for the first quarter but we havent heard anything since then. We're still missing the New World for the rest of our "end game" content (Nidhogg is nice, but having it available in Geffen is pretty nuts) and there's no sign of it appearing. It's time for the GMs to figure out what they want to do with Classic and let us know.

 

Classic has been slowly "growing" due to some quality of life changes (Asgard, ID/AL3 turnins, Janeway) but there will be a point where people want more content and Classic has always had a bit of an "end game" in terms of things for people to do outside of siege/pvp, I was hoping we would be able to get that through the Challenge Dungeons and some custom content. But it seems like the GM team just doesnt have enough time to develop these things while also maintaining two other servers.

Edited by Themes, 29 July 2015 - 12:52 PM.

[Sushi]

This maintenance is really a lack of respect to all the community.

[Themes]

lol if you think it's just this maintenance.

 

last week:

Spoiler

Events

Boxter being updated with items from Groove Packs
Adding NPC for turning in unwanted Anniversary/4th of July items
Continuing work on Classic test server preparation. Need ideas for Classic PVP or other events that we can do to test out the new server

Bug

Laurel Wreath should become vendable

 

week before: 

Spoiler

Challenge Dungeon Monsters get a proposed stat build
Anniversary Events Leave
EXP returns to only 2x and drops to 1x
VIP bonus returns to normal
Kunlun, Amatsu, and Louyang Spotlight.

 

and some from before that:

Spoiler

Events:

Lucky Box departs and July Groove Pack arrives!

Groove Pack Contents!

Always gives 1 Battle ManualX3
Gives one of the following at random:
80xMega Resist Potion

10x Fencer mercenary scroll
3xHE Bubble Gum
4x Job Battle Manual
Chicken Hat[1]
Sigrun's Wing
Little Feather Hat[1]
Gelato Hat[1] Poring Letter
Evil Marching Hat[1]
Elven Ears[1]

Anniversary events continue for one more week
Anniversary boosted exp and drops continue for one more week

Updates:

Working on getting a classic test server configured
Challenge dungeon beta test part II

 

Spoiler

The talk like a pirate day quest will be leaving, along with the monster spawns in Izlude and Alberta

Update:
Beta for Challenge dungeon update started! We'll be introducing the new monsters so players can test the AI, if we get the spawn amounts and difficulty tuned properly we'll add drops and get the new dungeon set up.

We're also working on setting up an alternative to Sakray that would allow us to test updates and changes on Classic

 

Spoiler

Event

Going to test past anniversary quests for compatability, any particular ones you want to see brought back?
PVP/BG Announcer NPC will now have a much shorter 1 hour cooldown

Update

 

Challenge dungeon updates! New map, different monsters! We'll likely be testing out these with drop-less monsters this week and add drops depending on the feedback this week. Updates coming next week!

 

The test server is still not up (seems like it may be close though).

Challenge Dungeon monsters are "in" but they still have Kobold sprites and stats (despite one note specifically to update them).

Boxter gets updated about 1/5 of the time it shows up in notes.

 

[Campitor]

Regarding the test server: currently I am waiting on the IT team to poke a hole in the network so that the character server can see the DB. We copied everything else from the live classic server to the test server so it is currently sitting as a clone of the live.

 

Patcher Issues: We have a fix were testing. I to be honest I have been trying to find guinea pig clients for the fix that are currently bugged out.

[Naman18Tandon]

Oda, campitor can you do something about boxter I mean many people have been waiting , and at least I'm getting impatient, can you help me/us out.

[Xellie]

Honestly, I'm not trying to be a jerk here or put down the staff efforts but it's like when it comes to classic, although I'm sure you're trying a lot behind the scenes (like the god list, challenge dungeon, test server) - on the face of it it's as if the basic needs of the server aren't being met.

 

Let me give an example from this maint

 

- We have a vague mention of a compensation event; with no detail as to what it may be. Renewal has exp/drops for vip (which is kinda bleh for classic anyway, drop events). But it seems like it was put aside because reasons? 

 

- we were promised boxter, this is an ongoing joke. That was pushed aside because reasons.

 

- details on firesale would be nice (if that even actually happens!); iirc, Oda didn't seem sure if classic would get one during tiki. It was an afterthought.

 

- Anniversary quest fully out (hey guys we didn't give you anything but we took things away)

 

- hair brush gains effects ( this is cool but I think like 3 people own one of those)

 

- Chicken hat. People seem unclear as to what the hat does. It doesn't match he description at all, giving +10 str at +9 refine level (and with a slot?!). Does this not seem kind of wrong? Should the script not be checked at least?

 

- job manuals, finally.

 

Anyway the point is that Classic appears to be at the back of the list when it comes to "things to do at maint" and if they don't get done, then they get put off indefinitely.  There is definitely a market for a pre-re server, just not one that is treated like this.

[Themes]

I have this huge feeling that we've been here before. We go through these six month cycles where we start off by getting things and attention. Then over a couple of months we're "good" and have stuff to do. Then slowly as times goes by we're treated like things are still fine and that we have things to do. Then suddenly everyone's sick of getting nothing every week and complain. After that we start again, the negative comments/complaints finally reach the right ears and some things get earmarked for Classic and introduced.

 

If you're looking for guinea pigs I know plenty (including myself) who just dont patch anymore because of the two bugs. It's not going to be hard for you to find people who have a broken patcher and would like to see it fixed.

 

Xellies last sentence is pretty key there. I always try to be fairly sympathetic with the GMs and give them the benefit of the doubt. But it's hard to stay endlessly positive when things are constantly ignored/forgotten about.

Edited by Themes, 29 July 2015 - 01:52 PM.

[Naman18Tandon]

I agree with every point Xellie has said , please work on them CM's , GM's

[AlmrOfAtlas]

I have this huge feeling that we've been here before. We go through these six month cycles where we start off by getting things and attention. Then over a couple of months we're "good" and have stuff to do. Then slowly as times goes by we're treated like things are still fine and that we have things to do. Then suddenly everyone's sick of getting nothing every week and complain. After that we start again, the negative comments/complaints finally reach the right ears and some things get earmarked for Classic and introduced.

 

If you're looking for guinea pigs I know plenty (including myself) who just dont patch anymore because of the two bugs. It's not going to be hard for you to find people who have a broken patcher and would like to see it fixed.

 

Apples. Apples everywhere.

 

You're totally right though. It does work in a cycle.

1. Classic isn't getting any attention.
2. The community starts fires on the forum to get some attention.
3. Devs listen after about a week or so of that, once it becomes clear that the community isn't going to drop it.
4. Devs come up with a few good ideas to placate the community.
5. Community input happens. Potential revisions are put forward. After a few days the devs stop watching the conversation for some reason.
6. All of the ideas are forgotten about.
7. More fires due to being ignored.
8. The devs rush something to implementation which results in it being broken beyond all recognition, just to show they're actually doing something.
9. Community asks why it happened. Devs say they're aware of the issue and working on a fix. There will be no fix.
10. Repeat.

[Xandyzor]

Just when the classic is increasing the amount of players ...? Now it is time to pay more attention ... Or they expect more players leave the server?

[Oda]

 

Apples. Apples everywhere.

 

You're totally right though. It does work in a cycle.

1. Classic isn't getting any attention.
2. The community starts fires on the forum to get some attention.
3. Devs listen after about a week or so of that, once it becomes clear that the community isn't going to drop it.
4. Devs come up with a few good ideas to placate the community.
5. Community input happens. Potential revisions are put forward. After a few days the devs stop watching the conversation for some reason.
6. All of the ideas are forgotten about.
7. More fires due to being ignored.
8. The devs rush something to implementation which results in it being broken beyond all recognition, just to show they're actually doing something.
9. Community asks why it happened. Devs say they're aware of the issue and working on a fix. There will be no fix.
10. Repeat.

 

I can't say that it's a wholly inaccurate reading of how things have gone with classic servers of late. 

 

You guys know the situation with how many servers we are managing vs how many people we have to be able to do development style work, so I won't rehash that. It's our job to provide you guys with a fun and fair place and in exchange you guys play, tell your friends and help the server grow. Classic's numbers have been on the increase for a variety of reasons but our ability to provide new content has not been what it was. 

 

I am not going to make wild promises, as I feel that it's a big part of my modus operandi to overpromise to the community even in cases where we are not able to deliver. I will continue to push for classic to get it's share of dev time and attention and to do what I can to improve transmitting the production plans into words that will make sense and be accurate to what goes out to the community. 

[Falloutchild]

Cool could you please inform us if Classic got the same "Event" as renewal?

[AmericanPie]

Oda/camp, can update 1st page post for what actually is live on classic?

[Xandyzor]

 

You guys know the situation with how many servers we are managing vs how many people we have to be able to do development style work, so I won't rehash that. 

 

If you have a lot of work and little staff to perform it. Talk to your superior. Hire new people, train them.

 

It makes no sense, for example, 3 people to do the work 6. It will be stressful and frustrating. Own experience.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

I can't say that it's a wholly inaccurate reading of how things have gone with classic servers of late. 

 

You guys know the situation with how many servers we are managing vs how many people we have to be able to do development style work, so I won't rehash that. It's our job to provide you guys with a fun and fair place and in exchange you guys play, tell your friends and help the server grow. Classic's numbers have been on the increase for a variety of reasons but our ability to provide new content has not been what it was. 

 

I am not going to make wild promises, as I feel that it's a big part of my modus operandi to overpromise to the community even in cases where we are not able to deliver. I will continue to push for classic to get it's share of dev time and attention and to do what I can to improve transmitting the production plans into words that will make sense and be accurate to what goes out to the community. 

 

• Don't promise anything on projects or feedback unless it's already been approved by the higher-ups and/or already in the pipeline.
   
• If a project stalls, please tell us so instead of just going quiet about it, as soon as practical. We're a lot more understanding if we know what's going on, but if you leave it too late to explain yourselves we get pissed off at what we see as laziness and indifference.
   
• This goes with my first point that you shouldn't promise anything unless you're sure about it, but please don't use politician-speak when answering questions e.g. "it may be possible in the future" or "we'll try to look into it" or "we'll consider it going forward"; just tell us whether or not our ideas are viable clearly and concisely, with timeframes for action or escalation, instead of being vague and hyping us up. That doesn't mean making early promises, it just means knowing whether something is doable, and how to go about it. If you can't answer those questions with confidence, please delegate to someone who can. If they can't, then just tell us it's not going to work.
   
• Please don't refer to game mechanics or effects unless you know what you're talking about. You can't create engaging discussions if you don't grasp how things fit together and play alongside one another (big issue - lots of things being inserted recently that break comp balance), and you can't run a discussion if people don't trust your input to be relevant. Understanding the game makes it a lot easier for you to take our feedback and present it to the devs anyway; less translation involved. If that means reading up on how RO works, or god forbid actually playing it, then maybe you should do that. As a CM you should be aware of your product, and not just relying on the community and your volunteers to do all the heavy lifting for you.
   
• Please listen to us and engage us even if we're not directing a conversation towards you. Be more aware of what's going on in-game and on the forums. Participate in discussion, quote people and ask questions to facilitate further discussion and give people confidence to voice their opinion, and show that you care. Don't just appear to us when you have to post in an official capacity.
   
• Please crack down on people that don't follow the rules. Given them a reason to reconsider flaming. Right now people feel free to do whatever they want on account of the repercussions being inconsequentially light and rarely encountered, if ever.

Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 29 July 2015 - 11:48 PM.

[Themes]

I can't say that it's a wholly inaccurate reading of how things have gone with classic servers of late. 

 

You guys know the situation with how many servers we are managing vs how many people we have to be able to do development style work, so I won't rehash that. It's our job to provide you guys with a fun and fair place and in exchange you guys play, tell your friends and help the server grow. Classic's numbers have been on the increase for a variety of reasons but our ability to provide new content has not been what it was. 

 

I am not going to make wild promises, as I feel that it's a big part of my modus operandi to overpromise to the community even in cases where we are not able to deliver. I will continue to push for classic to get it's share of dev time and attention and to do what I can to improve transmitting the production plans into words that will make sense and be accurate to what goes out to the community. 

 

I'm not sure about everyone else but I'd feel better if we were better informed an general. Having a public place where you state your intentions and direction for the server is a good thing and has been used before to great success. A lot of my issues arise from the fact that things are done (or dropped) randomly and without explanation. There's a lot of projects in various stages and nobody really knows what's important, what's being worked on and what's abandoned.

 

There's no reason why you cant say "Ok guys we just got new data for the latest Renewal update, we've got to do some work testing it out and it's going to put <Classic project> on hold for a couple of weeks, I'll let you know on our progress next week to see if we can fit anything in" and I dont think anyone would have a problem with that. Instead we dont know what you're spending time on, we dont need a play by play, but if there's things from the Renewal servers that will take all your time it would be nice to know about it.

 

Take the Challenge Dungeon for example. We had a very successful implementation with the Undead dungeon, people loved it, the exp was "okay" and the drops were really good. It was removed at some point and the monsterIDs from it got reused for another event. People wanted to see a new one and Camp was busy one week so the Worm one was rushed in, entirely useless and then forgotten about for months and months. Lately there was another push from you guys to give it another shot, with an interest in adding a bit more complexity to it with skills/stats. There was plenty of talk about it here and some examples patched in during maintenances. Then nothing. It's been three weeks since the last mention of it from you guys and considering how much talk/effort you were putting into it people are confused. I've spoken with a lot of people who are asking "what happened?" and "why cant they just put the first one in?". It's just another project that got some passionate attention for a short period of time then seems to have been forgotten about.

 

It would just be nice to know that when you guys start a project that it'll get finished and if for some reason you guys have to direct some time elsewhere, that your attention will return to that project instead of finding something new on Classic to start working on.

 

When talking with friends or potential new players who ask about the server, I'd like to be able to tell them that the GMs are working towards adding custom content to engage people in a handful of places and that if they're interested they can read about them on the forums. Instead right now all I can do is just tell them that there were some projects being worked on but we havent heard about them in a while and who knows if/when they'll get worked on again.

[Elaine]

After reading through this thread it is quite obvious that classic has some very thoughtful and forgiving players. I think many share the sentiment that Classic gets pushed to the back burner on a regular basis. I understand that Classic isn't likely a big money maker and won't get the same attention as the other servers, but the repeated lack of attention to very key problems has taken a server that had a lot of promise, to a server that is barely playable in under 2 years. 

 

I appreciate that Oda and Campitor have taken the effort to try to fix some of the issues that Classic is currently plagued with. I do, however, think it would be better if we had more detailed information about what is being done, and what is on the to do list, so that maybe we can have some hope restored in the community.

 

For example, why not use the Classic Tiki Tuesdays to field questions and explain the work being done for the server for the community, and maybe take some suggestions. I feel this would serve a better purpose than just playing the game aimlessly. 

[Themes]

Calling the server barely playable is a bit of an overstatement, it has been barely playable in the past. But right now it's just stagnant more than anything. Things are still growing slowly and that's probably reflected more by the growing number of bots than anything else.

 

I'm not sure if you've been watching the latest Tiki Tuesdays, lately he has pre-recorded video of him going bot banning on one of the three servers and just has it play while he does nothing but read chat and answer questions from the thread (and sometimes chat too). It's a lot better than it used to be. I'd definitely like to see Classic separated a little bit from Renewal because I think the Tiki Tuesdays are an excellent opportunity for people to get questions answered that would generally not get seen elsewhere on the forums when they get posted. Unfortunately a lot of the more difficult questions get answered with vague "maybe", "I'm not sure" and "possibly in the future" type responses.

[Jayalphy]

We weren't able to get the boxter changes in for this week guys, I'm sorry. 

 

1) What happened to challenge Dungeon?

2) What's gonna be in the fire sale box?

3) When will this july box leave?

[AlmrOfAtlas]

They never reveal what's in the fire sale boxes. The whole point is for it to be a surprise and rush.

[Jayalphy]

They never reveal what's in the fire sale boxes. The whole point is for it to be a surprise and rush.

 

At the least when there is gonna be the fire sale?