6 replies to this topic

[Feuer]

So, I'm obviously proposing that you gain stacks of stun resistance when you're stunned [exact same mechanic as sleep]. Getting chain stunned is just one of those things the staff should have addressed a long time ago. I could argue to positions and facts etc, but do I really have to? Every GOOD game has deminished returns on Hard CC like Stun, Silence[especially in skill based games] sleeps and roots. 

 

So why is it this hasn't been addressed? it seems like a pretty simple fix tbh. 

[Tleliaxu]

I thought about this today and realized you're wrong. Rather, you would've been right if a stun was like a sleep, or if we were only talking about game balance and mechanics.

 

In terms of balance, what you suggest is not only good but necessary. Chain stuns really screw up a game, whether it's a so-called moba or an mmo. However, IRL a stun != sleep. If you get stunned once you're going to get stunned MORE. Stuns diminish your ability to resist stuns as well as your ability to recover from them. So if we want to link lore with balance and real life we should think of a separate mechanic for dealing with stuns besides a straightforward diminishing returns resistance stack. Consider how something like your mana / hp levels could affect stuns.

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Edited by Tleliaxu, 28 November 2015 - 11:04 AM.

[Feuer]

A stun and sleep both function exactly the same way. 

Neither can be applied if the status already exists.

Both disable you from moving or retaliating. [Loss of character control]

Both disable you from pursuing a target.

And both allow your enemy to apply status effects to you without you being pulled from the status.

 

The only difference is that Stun and Sleep differ in when the status effect expires.

Stuns are short duration that naturally expire and allow the agitator to continue attacking.

Sleep will end if any direct damage is placed into the affect target of sleep, but last longer.

 

Thematically, a 'sleep' is a state of unconsciousness. So is a stun. The difference is one is a state of natural unconsciousness, the other being a forced state from some type of trauma [when regarding stun in combative terms]. 

 

So if we want to apply the 'real world' logic that you represent. And take into account that a stun leaving you vulnerable to sequential stuns, then the same is true for sleep. Arguing that a stun should intentionally leave you susceptible to further stuns, means the current 'rested' mechanic should be removed, as being place into a magical but natural state of sleep, leave you open to being kept in that state. 

[Tleliaxu]

You're arguing in circles there, I think. Sleep usually leaves me rested. The times I've either been knocked or choked out (and the times I've done the same to others) tells me that a good sleep leaves me rested but being stunned does not. Now, your experience may differ, but you'll have to explain to me how that works.

Either way, the trauma from either knocked or choked out left me with persistent disorientation and some numbness when 'coming to'. That happened in combat situations, which leaves me open to more 'stuns' when retargeted. The only times I've woken disoriented from natural sleep was when I was sick or similar. So IRL there are a few more differences between stuns and sleeps.

 

when sleep is over, subject is rested

when stun is over, subject is disoriented

 

Think of it as a Maimed status effect, of sorts.

 

Having said that, I don't want to throw away either the 'rested' or 'stun resistance' stack mechanics. I do think it can be reimplemented. Sadly, there mightn't be a less complicated way of doing it other than your suggestion.

 

[Feuer]

I'm glad you could see I was arguing in a circle, I did in fact do it on purpose to show that not everything in the real world can be applied to a game, and have it come out balanced. Sometimes in order to have that variety but still be balanced, you need to break away from real world situations. 

 

For now, it's the best solution with easiest implementation. It would have little impact on PvP and a more profound balancing effect on PvM. And for now it's the best option. 

[Tleliaxu]

Yes. Don't get lazy and leave it at that, though. For the future, I'm thinking of the Thief's Subdue Attack technique from LOM:SE and a few other similar techniques. Something that covers as much as possible.

Edited by Tleliaxu, 28 November 2015 - 02:34 PM.

[Feuer]

With the amount of new system mechanics that need to be coded for already planned updates and expansions, I want to provide hot-fixs that don't require any new code and provide the same results. For now* it's the best we can do.