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Where are all the clerics?


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#101 borgahutt

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:51 PM

You realize BM that you're talking about what I've been stating a problem is? The GAP between new, and 'moderate' to 'elite' is so, so massive, that it's causing balancing issues. and a huge portion of that gap is the buff system in it's current shape.
Reduce that gap, and the difference in opinion between 'elite' and 'noob' will be small enough that coming to a mutual decision will be easier.


That's not true at all - you say the GAP is mostly the buff system... +30 buff and a +65 buff on a cleric isn't going to make the 65 far more superior than the 30, it's not that big of a difference , yeah maybe the Dex buff makes everyone much quicker and slightly more dodge / block % but not such a huge difference that it's impossible on lower buffs
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#102 Feuer

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 12:12 AM

I wasn't speaking strictly about buffs, only that they're the largest single factor. There are many factors involved between the novice and elite, such as 

  • refines
  • passives
  • king sets
  • pvp gear
  • sub/gems
  • clan passives

and so forth. Buffs when compared to a single item from the list above, not the entire list, out weight that single item. that was my point about buffs, but my entire point was all of those factors where the 'rich' have a leg up, so much so that someone at the bottom of all those things, fighting someone at the top, will not win. 


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#103 kwayan19

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 06:46 AM

Yes FS is soo easy just have clan passives and group with another cleric and dex buffer + 3 to 4 more people and voila u win all the time because the other side will either have no cleric or stat buffers or most of the noobs are in the opposing group.. instawin ezzepeezee
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#104 iMatt

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 08:02 AM

Yes FS is soo easy just have clan passives and group with another cleric and dex buffer + 3 to 4 more people and voila u win all the time because the other side will either have no cleric or stat buffers or most of the noobs are in the opposing group.. instawin ezzepeezee

 

You know how it works :thumb:


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#105 Filipito98

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 09:54 AM

That's not true at all - you say the GAP is mostly the buff system... +30 buff and a +65 buff on a cleric isn't going to make the 65 far more superior than the 30, it's not that big of a difference , yeah maybe the Dex buff makes everyone much quicker and slightly more dodge / block % but not such a huge difference that it's impossible on lower buffs

tbh for me it do a big freaking difference, if in terms of buffs would prefeer having +65 buffs instead +30, but well since i dont play nowadays i would say even normal stats (no charm just lvl max and maybe add a lil more to aspd and etc) would be enough for me


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#106 MonnaLise

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 04:15 PM

How could be someone a class representative without knowing deeper his own class ? Like, uh-oh i felt you were talking like you dont know anything about clerics.

A good build is indeed an investment to say, you need to spend much effort and zulie on 'exploring' it.

Edited by MonnaLise, 26 September 2015 - 04:18 PM.

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#107 Feuer

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 05:09 PM

I will confess, I have within the last week n a half, leveled a cleric to 208 so far. I obviously put my own 'feuer' spin on the build and play style, but from what I experienced [level from 120-208 in lvl 120 braves... and lvl 50 jewelry] this class is fine. Now, that is a PvM perspective, the small portions of PK Fighting made me feel like the class was also fine, but PK'ers tend to have no idea what they're doing and are below average pvp players so I can't make a decision just on that alone. 


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#108 Bendersmom

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Posted 28 September 2015 - 04:15 PM

Feuer, once you get to about 210 go full support - all buffs, max charm, all heals but wear pvm gear and try to level, do quests or farm.  Then let me know how being a cleric feels.  You can level clerics if you build them with some offensive skills, etc.  But you are worthless if you are stuck leveling alone, having to do high level quests, etc.  You are not a part of the group either if you are leveling with anyone, you mostly get to buff, heal and maybe hit a few things.

 

Then try to do it on say a bourg.  Build it and level it up as a pvm char.  Then when you get to about 210 build for PVP but wear PVM gear.  Then try leveling, doing quests or farming.  Much difference?  Can you solo a lot of the quests?  Can you solo some of the farming areas?


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#109 Feuer

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Posted 28 September 2015 - 06:04 PM

That's your decision to invest into a build that rely's on party members. If you can't handle the time consumption it takes, then don't go for a full support build. That's your personal decision affecting your opinion. 


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#110 jagz

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 06:30 AM



I wasn't speaking strictly about buffs, only that they're the largest single factor. There are many factors involved between the novice and elite, such as 


  • refines

  • passives

  • king sets

  • pvp gear

  • sub/gems

  • clan passives


and so forth. Buffs when compared to a single item from the list above, not the entire list, out weight that single item. that was my point about buffs, but my entire point was all of those factors where the 'rich' have a leg up, so much so that someone at the bottom of all those things, fighting someone at the top, will not win. 

 

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

CECCul7.png


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#111 Feuer

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 06:44 AM

As an example then shal we?

 

Maximum Contribution of Clan Passives WITH Class Stat Passives: 35 STR

Maximum Contribution of Stat Buffs : 200STR

 

See the difference? Buffs when compared to a single field listed [because buffs are a single field in their own] completely out weigh the others. 


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#112 Bendersmom

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 03:39 AM

That's your decision to invest into a build that rely's on party members. If you can't handle the time consumption it takes, then don't go for a full support build. That's your personal decision affecting your opinion. 

 

I understand that is my decision, but that is the root of some of the FS cleric problems.  To be full support, which is essentially what the cleric class was designed for, you are very limited in the things that you can do. PVM or PVP a FS build as it stands now, limits you to always having to find a party (which is the design of the cleric being supportive) but limits you as to doing quests or farming.  If it the community did not have to rely on a FS cleric for buffs that would enable the cleric to make more of a hybrid build, like most of the other classes, and make it so that the games did not rely so much on having a FS cleric present.  So yes, it is my decision to be FS but it is the game design that is making it so that other classes are so reliant on a good FS cleric.


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#113 Feuer

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 04:40 AM

But that's where you're wrong, the community doesn't have to rely on the cleric for buffs. the classes all have buffs that play to their strengths as a role. Saying they rely on clerics is only lending to them making the personal decision to do so. It isn't any different for a Raider to make the choice to not get their own class buffs than it is for a Cleric to build into nothing but heals and buffs. You saying so is only supporting the other classes remaining selfish and self serving. So if you want to make a difference as a cleric, then stop enabling them that luxury and expectation that you [a cleric] will just assume the role they choose for you and bow to their whims. 

 

You make the difference for yourself, not them. 


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#114 Bendersmom

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 02:31 PM

And then we are right back to the other problem that is upsetting so many FS clerics, abuse.  If a FS cleric goes into the dungeons or PVP games without full buffs with max charm they are ridiculed and abused.  I am able to ignore it or go back on the people, but it upsets a lot of people.  And yes, I know that a lot of people do get the class buffs, but they have not really figured out that the buffs are important for all yet.  Some do, but a lot don't.  The greater majority rely on the FS cleric, and rightfully so since that has been our role in Rose since day one.  So yes, I can make a hybrid build, as can any cleric, but the negative effects atm are not really the answer.  I would be one out of all so it would not really change anything.  The title of this post is "Where are all of the clerics?" so a number of the responses have been toward answering that question.  And one of the ways to answer the question is to describe the problems encountered with being a FS cleric and a discussion of why a lot of the FS clerics don't play anymore.  As you read through a lot discuss the abuse they get when playing (and if not full charm or without all of the skills it is worse) and a lot discussed the buff system.  While others say do not change the buffs, don't change charm, don't change anything......but make the FS cleric more fun to play.  I am sure it is frustrating to the GMs and will wait to see what their take on it is.


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#115 Feuer

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 02:35 PM

You should watch the latest 'Runnin' round Rose' stream, Leonis will pretty much reiterate exactly what I just said. 


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#116 KatsuraKujo

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 07:27 PM

Actually i beg to differ mom, i give them +59 buffs, no noise in dungeon. Same if i forgot to switch gears and end up giving them +37 (or something). I've played a little to test the community's reaction against what an fs do. Having max buffs in dungeon isn't one thing that people shoot you with. Its how you play that people shoot you with.

 

The only thing that i find they are too reliant on is the heals, they expect clerics to heal as fast as they get hit with by 50-60+ mobs in order to survive although they are the ones luring more than they can handle. So there's one reason there.

 

Also leveling up a cleric has many methods, not just simply buffs, heals, and flames all the way ignoring all offensive build. You chose the harder ones to build instead of making a BC to fight and reset when you're at 2xx, or simply a more taken type of build, a "fake mage". So yes, they can fight, just that it isn't as great as you think it can be just because you're building by max charm 1st then int, method (at least that's what i think you're saying, correct me if i'm wrong).

 

Clerics are actually quite fun to play as it is, here's a challenge for you, don't use party heals besides heavenly grace to heal your party in COU. That makes it a lot, i mean a lot more fun than it is just randomly spamming party heals

 

Overall, its all based on the attitude of each player of the game. That would take awhile to change as it is.


Edited by KatsuraKujo, 30 September 2015 - 07:31 PM.

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#117 zwarlordz

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 07:47 PM

Wow, I tend to agree with Feuer lol.  The FS cleric is boring actually too.  

1. You run the slowest of all classes, yet are supposed to keep up with everyone.  Knights outrun FS clerics often.  Most FS clerics resort to using mounts to try to keep up but you are very vulnerable on a mount.  

2. No one protects the cleric unless you get to play with a group of people that you know and ask for help.

3. There are a ton of skills available for clerics but to be a FS cleric that indicates that you can fully support your team.  To do that you have to spend all of your SP on full buffs, heals, purify, res, bonfire of some kind, etc. and then try to have enough SP to get defense and block to try to survive a short time longer to heal ppl.  No room for extra skills.

4. AA I did on Sunday Attacking side, me as only FS cleric - Buff all up in charm gear.  Change to fighting gear, look around and all are already on their way to the side xtal.  Run after them, get attacked by 3 raiders because you are alone. Die.  Respawn and change to charm gear, buff up. change back to fighting gear.....but wait a team member or two just respawned...back to charm gear.  Buff everyone and change to fighting gear.  All have left you again.  Group members are yelling for heals in chat.  Take the time to explain that you can't leave the respawn because raiders keep killing you.  Group members die and need buffs, but you are now at the edge of the respawn area about to jump down, but group member yells at you for being waayyyy up there and not at the respawn spot so they can get buffs.  Wait for them, not taking the time to respond, change to charm gear, buff them up.  Jump down with them and change to fighting gear on the run.  Raiders attack again before you can get to your group but heal though it and keep plodding along.  Get to group, heal as can for a few min until ganged from all on opposing team, die.  Respawn and read in chat how the cleric has to help them or they can't win.  Reply something about FS clerics needing some protection to stay with them.  Get response that I should not play in charm gear and to change to good gear so I can heal them.  Really??? Ok all are buffed up and we wait to all go together.  Run to xtal area, hide in wall as I can or hide among my group, get off some heals and even a res with a few buffs then the group spreads out more and I get targeted by 3 raiders from the back again. Try to heal but crit locked or something, can't skill, can't heal, no help from team.  Die. The rest of the match was a repeat.  

does that sound like a fun way to play?  I did not see anyone else getting beat up by the rest of the group for not doing their part.  At no time did I feel as though I was a part of the fight really.  I was there to buff and heal if I could.  

 

5. Our FS cleric buffs are nothing compared to class charm buffer buffs. Personally I think classes should have the buffs with buffs spread out between all of the classes.  Give some to FS cleric obviously too but without so many buffs we could actually get some defensive and offensive skills and still have heals as our main skills.  

 

I would love to hear what other FS clerics feel but in general the character used to be a lot more fun to play.  At this point I have tried a lot of variations but I think being a buff slave is more the norm now than it even used to be.  A lot of that is probably the fault of the FS clerics but in general I think the attitude of players in game has really changed over the years.  

 

You're right BM. Ppl expect too much from cleric. Problem is every1 want buffs and heal, but no one pay attention in protecting their team's clerics.


Edited by zwarlordz, 30 September 2015 - 08:49 PM.

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#118 lovileva

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 01:05 AM

Cleric for life my friend


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#119 ZeemScout

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 02:48 AM

Ok,i got my own FS cleric too, 

 

i believe the reason that not much player play their FS because it is not fun at all now,

 

Especially nowaday if u earn alot of Valor and Honor point, and u can't buy those Valor item or skill or Honor set for your other account or character, all item character locked... so it is useless if u earn so much of Honor or Valor point.

 

For AA, due to sometime if u r using a FS cleric to play , And when someone died,they will blame to the cleric and say they r weak or they r slow or blah blah blah...

For CoU or other DGs, sometime when someone died,they will blame at u but they didn't think about their equipment is low...

 

so conclusion is , no point to use FS cleric anymore unless wan to make a new character...so will use cleric to support the new character...

 

All just because someone decision and change the gameplay and trying to save the game, .. another way that they didn't think is their idea will make the game unbalance...


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