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#1 Xellie

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 03:19 AM

Before I say anything : I just want to point out that anybody who will feel the need to make this personal / accuse me of ruining the server by trying to get a problem fixed / is known to be completely unconstructive are pre-emptively on ignore.


I don’t even know where to start... Hrmm. Well I guess people noticed I stopped streaming. That’s a lot because I haven’t been playing. People log on my characters and do guild things and stuff, picking up loots and changing guild titles and borrowing gear and recalling. I’ve logged on about twice in the past two weeks, mostly to just chat to the people at west prontera. One of those times I logged out instantly, because of the presence of a certain person.


Yeah, see when you’re logging on to a game to have fun, I guess (especially those who don’t have much play time) dealing with unending abuse and harassment isn’t really high on my priority list. Granted, it’s just a bunch of words on the interwebs... But it gets old and boring. There’s only so many times I can sigh and type /ex <name>, and then get up and walk off screen to ignore the chat rooms, hoping that the rest of the people I was hanging out with will follow... they usually don’t.

There’s also only so many times I can say “you’re a knob” to this person before I feel like I’m a five year old.


Some people in the community take it way too far. People been banned from the forums for posting videos with real life pictures of mine, or just being an ass in general toward me personally. Before anyone says it about the pictures, there’s very few of me out there... they were leaked by a guy I stopped being on good terms with IRL. Not through my own stupidity with online privacy.


There are people I thought who were perfectly reasonable and “normal” players within the community... who seem to think that just because someone takes it upon themselves to do the guild leader thing, they should expect (and that in some cases it’s deserved) to be verbally abused, stalked, attacked, trash talked. Now whilst I expect that within reason I don’t think it should ever cross lines from ingame to out of game.


okay : You’re a -_- sinx and should delete your character

not okay : You’re a fat ugly loser and should kill yourself


Also not okay : saying that kind of thing every day, making videos belittling that person’s irl persona, following them around, rape threats (yes I get those) and general misogyny. It might be funny once or twice but after a while, if it doesn’t become creepy, it does become irritating.


Once again let me stress, I expect some of this crap. It comes with being any combination of visible on the forums, a guildleader, a long term player, female, having an opinion. I do however, expect the game company to keep that stuff to a reasonable amount. No matter how trivial it is, when this stuff is becoming a daily occurrence or the only part of RO you experience, then yeah, staff it’s time to step in and discourage it.

No, you can’t blame it all on me having an opinion on the forums. You’d be terse and abrupt too after 3 pages of it. Or people just generally believing everything that comes out of the rumour mill.  


My favourite part about that, by the way, is you can make -_- up about other players being scammer and what not on these forums and face zero repercussions. If you attack their forum identity, it generally goes untouched. But if you dare post a screenshot or video of someone doing something actually untoward, that will get removed.

Worst of all if you tell the person making the unwarranted comments to be quiet and do some fact checking, you get banned from the forums. A touch of classy public humiliation from the staff, letting everyone know what side they’re really on. After all the people mentioned in the first section of this tirade are mostly untouched, free to continue their stuff in game.

Attacks and infractions against specific individuals aren’t logged anywhere, so what happens is they just all get removed and swept away. It just keeps happening, over and over and over and over.


Yes, that is the kind of thing that really makes the playerbase lose respect for the admins. That and the fact that the moderators can’t ever be bothered to PM a user and tell them what they did wrong. Expecting them to narcissistically re-read all their prior posts on the off chance there was an edit/warning editted in.

The system is terrible, sporadic and entirely based on the mood of the admins.

And it shows.


Did I mention yet that I think RO is an awesome game? It’s a giant sandbox of a game where we can do many things. There’s a few flaws with it... I guess the positive thing I can say is that the staff are sort of taking on board feedback against pay to win on classic. There’s been some horrible decision making about adding equipments. There’s no real vetting process to keep things from renewal that are “bad” out. (examples : VOH, EMH, LFH, ninja scroll). We need to have this stuff put before the community in advance so that it can be demonstrated how it affects the game. But it feels impossible to reach anyone about technical or systematic problems with Classic. (examples: Being able to save on WoE maps opens a bunch of different abuses - not just the one that everyone thinks about, massive duped items, endless tower farming)


If you’ve read this far, congratulations, now I’m getting to the real meat of the post. Everything else prior to this is just scene setting.


Autopot is something that comes up pretty often. Mostly because it’s a quick and easy way for less experienced players to explain their loss, or because it’s a visible sign of unfairness.

For me, there’s another factor here at work - the staff just aren’t keeping their promises.

Each time I get sniped by something because I wasn’t paying attention I can say “Autopot would have saved me” and grumble about. I’ll probably feel a bit stupid - but in my eyes and the eyes of many players. I deserved that. I totally did. Even if I feel a bit of a derp for it.

Like it or not, it does provide an advantage, in that it requires less multitasking/ less divided attention - allowing the user to “be a derp” or to focus purely on damage output. We’re all human and lapses in attention are pretty normal. That’s also what will separate the good players from the bad ones.

What I’m saying is, Autopot changes the game in a way that I see as mostly negative.


HOWEVER: A more negative experience is to play a different game to everyone else. People have been protesting against its use for a long long time now. And sure, everything came to public vision when Oda made that comment on tiki tuesday about a possible legal autopot.

For once, regardless of the outcome, it felt like the staff actually gave half a -_- about the quality of gameplay their userbase were experiencing.


The thread progresses. Oda states no, Autopot is not allowed and it all gets shut down. We’re told that the staff will be watching WoE and to send tickets with [Classic WoE watch] in the title, to get the reports looked at in real time.


Classic WoE watch tickets were mentioned a long time prior to this, in this disappointing thread:


http://forums.warpportal.com/index.php?/topic/169664-classic-2015-q1-roadmap/


Anti-Bot/Cheating

-The GMs will be watching for tickets with the subject [CLASSIC WOE WATCH] during the hours of Woe 1 and 2 for requests to monitor specific individuals for suspect activity during woe.

 

To send in to this group, use that subject line. In the body of the message all we need is the name of the character, the guild and a quick blurb about what they are doing. We do not require screenshots and videos at that step, but it's recommended that you add a reply to your ticket later with that information if you have it.

 


This isn’t working : Here’s a reply from a ticket sent by a friend last night during WoE:

 

“Thank you very much for bringing this issue up with us. I understand your concern. Would you happen to have a video recording of the character which you suspect of using a third-party program? It would help us a lot, if you would be able to give us something to look in to so that we'll be able to investigate and make a far judgement. We will be waiting for your response on this matter.


If you would be having other concerns with the game or your account, please write us back. Have a great day!”

 



I didn't ’t like sending tickets during WoE... Actually I tried to avoid it, but in some cases you have to ask yourself why you should continue to play against people who clearly have an advantage. An immediate example I can think of is a nodelay arrow shower sniper (whom I thankfully haven’t seen for a couple of months in WoE  but certainly isn’t banned. ) A player who persistently, yet sporadically does this. They never get caught because they only log on that char once every couple of months or something, but this has been going on since two years ago.

Actually, WP are just really bad at handling long term cheating.


There’s very few players we felt the need to report after the autopot thread. It was only a couple of extremely obvious ones that we have been reporting since April. And I mean, BLATANT kind of obvious. The GMs who were monitoring WoE started following me around I was finding dead titles appearing where I was at for a couple of WoEs, even though we weren’t fighting anyone. I mean I guess that’s one way to do it, but it doesn’t help! Go to the people that were reported! If you really want to know if I’m autopotting, my livestream is a better source than just watching me. You can see my HP bar and sometimes, you can hear my key presses depending on my ptt.


So there’s been some pretty solid reports against a few individuals. I wanna say about three of them. The rest fall under “we know it’s happening but we can’t prove it so whatever”.


To narrow it down further, there is one individual who openly posts videos of himself cheating as well as harassing other players. He’s proud to post videos attacking community members, showing himself being bad mannered in game, autopotting, GRF editting and using maya purple hack. Every video he posts has in it’s title some iteration of how terrible iRO is.  


Posting one of these videos here scored him a ban from the forum (which I am certain he is evading at this stage) but I’d like to point out that isn’t much of a penalty for anything. He only exist on the forums to troll me in particular, so I doubt he cared about that forum acc made purely to be a dick going byebye. I felt an ingame sanction was necessary, but I am just a player, who am I to judge the CMs decisions? Ingame repercussions for forum shenanigans are only reserved for the select few.


It’s no secret we’ve reported his maya purple hack videos, his autopotting, his abuse. His coming to our spot in game bragging about how he’s unbannable, his personal attacks on forums. This guy is a blight on the community and game - publicizing iRO as being “terrible”, making the game unpleasant for those who play it (and did I mention cheating).  Yet he is untouchable, whilst players get banned for having obviously troll overlays.


I’ve been in pm with Oda, I’ve been forwarding tickets to him and warnhal. There’s no movement in any direction here.  I read my guild teamspeak chat, this person comes around our spot to point out that he is still unbanned.


Nobody that knows me wonders why I don’t log in anymore, they know.


I feel as if the staff have made a choice between myself, promoting the game positively and bringing people to play the server via my stream and this guy and his yt channel full of “iRO IS S**T”.




 


Edited by Xellie, 13 September 2015 - 03:50 AM.

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#2 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 03:43 AM

Upvoted for actually speaking out about all this crap.

 

tl;dr

  • OP isn't playing anymore due to harassment and threats that the GMs in-game and CMs here are ignoring.
  • Community is filled with toxicity and ban evasion that the CMs and Mods are selectively ignoring.
  • WoE is filled with all manner of cheating that the GMs are ignoring.
  • Tickets about cheating are being handled in a way that's contradictory to what the CMs (and Warnhal) told the community and set expectations for.
  • GMs seemingly can't identify cheating so they go for overlays and stalk the ticketers instead.
  • Both GMs and CMs appear to be sanctioning the reporters and ticketers while protecting and providing the benefit of the doubt to players reported as cheating.
  • Devs are making sweeping meta changes but not consulting or notifying the community before implementation.
  • iRO's pretty awful atm.

Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 13 September 2015 - 03:59 AM.

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#3 rockymom

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 03:56 AM

Xellie has managed to state what a large number of us, both in and out of Valhalla are feeling. When people go out of their way to make others' game time miserable by being rude, cheating and general harassment, we just don't feel like playing. New members and new friends see that crap and wonder what is even going on.

Accuse me of being a minion all you want, I stand behind Xellie with what she has to say. She put it far more eloquently than I would be able to.

Please do something about this crap. We can play without Xellie because we must, but we really miss our friend and guildmaster.

/edited for addition


Edited by rockymom, 13 September 2015 - 03:58 AM.

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#4 LegendaryTorgue

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 03:57 AM

Still <3 you, Xellie


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#5 IronFist

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 04:01 AM

I wish i had the words that could comfort you, make everything better.
But i don't, the only advice i can give is that everything around us is evolving, you included.
The path before us has obstacles and you will learn that these obstacles are people, we bang our heads against the brick wall or bring a ladder to climb over it.
It is not the same world we once knew, question is what do you want out of it?


Edited by IronFist, 13 September 2015 - 04:03 AM.

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#6 MegaEdge

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 04:19 AM

It's also a thing in Renewal and GMs doesn't do a thing against them.


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#7 Anchors

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 04:24 AM

I'm appalled by the idea that someone would go to such great lengths as to stalk and harass someone (especially in real life over a >10-year old game like RO).

 

WP, if someone is getting stalked and harassed (perhaps to the point of being shamed into killing herself) due to circumstances in your game, what would you do? I'm really curious about this now.


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#8 IronFist

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 04:24 AM

entitlement3.jpg?w=593&h=261&crop=1


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#9 Xellie

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 04:33 AM

I'm appalled by the idea that someone would go to such great lengths as to stalk and harass someone (especially in real life over a >10-year old game like RO).

 

WP, if someone is getting stalked and harassed (perhaps to the point of being shamed into killing herself) due to circumstances in your game, what would you do? I'm really curious about this now.

 

I'm not gonna say it's that bad. Because it's not reaching that extent.

 

But I can say that has happened to me on this game and a lot of the "lol hahaha" abuse people throw around are throwbacks to when that did happen. I'm older and wiser now which is why I remove myself from the situation and seek intervention from the "authorities" here, before it reaches that level of terribleness again.

 

I have a lot of friends within the RO community and would never cut fully away from that.

 

I do however wish to play and as I have been told by a wise man, even if I leave, individuals like that will just change target. Which is why I'm putting it out there that the staff should act. They may not be able to prevent actions like these completely, but they can discourage it by making it more of a chore/less fun for the trolls.

 

I will say that the power of hearing the same words over and over again isn't one to be underestimated.

 

btw : I don't care if anyone thinks I'm weak or pathetic for admitting harassment affected me badly in the past. I got over judging myself like that long ago.


Edited by Xellie, 13 September 2015 - 04:41 AM.

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#10 Hideasu

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 04:50 AM

sorry in advance for being blunt but here is my humble opinion :

if you think Gms will do anything about bottling / cheating , then think again they wont its just the name of the game now , so the best thing to do is just accept it n deal with it .

 

about the harassment and defamation of character lemme tell you , the Gms do something abt it but its never enough , you have ppl who take -_- waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far to the point where they will go on ur fb get a pic and idk put a knob on it ( funny u should ask someone actually did that for me hilarious but kinda bad taste), u don't let -_- get to you, they will be there Gms wont do -_- about it cuz if they wanted to they would have im sure u sent 300000 tickets by now n nothing changed. i guess its down to you to see if u are able to discard all the -_- dumb asses are giving you and enjoy the game , or say to hell with this -_- lol 


Edited by Hideasu, 13 September 2015 - 04:50 AM.

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#11 rojoky113

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 05:17 AM

The toxic community, the cheating, and the GM incompetence is definitely not a small part of why I recently decided to quit and put this game on hiatus, quite possibly for good. RO is a great game and will always have a spot in my heart, but this place has become a joke and I have given up on anything actually being done to change it. Dealing with it is just not worth the effort. Just have whatever fun you can on this slowly sinking ship before it goes under.


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#12 Xellie

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 05:19 AM

sorry in advance for being blunt but here is my humble opinion :

if you think Gms will do anything about bottling / cheating , then think again they wont its just the name of the game now , so the best thing to do is just accept it n deal with it .

 

about the harassment and defamation of character lemme tell you , the Gms do something abt it but its never enough , you have ppl who take -_- waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far to the point where they will go on ur fb get a pic and idk put a knob on it ( funny u should ask someone actually did that for me hilarious but kinda bad taste), u don't let -_- get to you, they will be there Gms wont do -_- about it cuz if they wanted to they would have im sure u sent 300000 tickets by now n nothing changed. i guess its down to you to see if u are able to discard all the -_- dumb asses are giving you and enjoy the game , or say to hell with this -_- lol 

 

I completely agree

 

But that doesn't mean I won't type a bunch of stuff to attempt to change the situation <3
 


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#13 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 07:11 AM

Hmm
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#14 Xellie

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 07:19 AM

Thank you cinnamod <3

 

That sort of thing, is btw, related to the stuff I was talking about in the OP. It's that very kind of behaviour that is wearing people down.


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#15 VModCinnamon

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 07:21 AM

Some posts had to be set off so please stay on topic.


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#16 Saralen

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 07:26 AM

Maybe a list of what not to do or methods that already failed will be effective in narrowing down the solution?
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#17 Xellie

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 07:29 AM

attempted :

 

> do nothing

 

 

suggestion:

 

> do something


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#18 Saralen

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 07:38 AM

attempted :

> do nothing


suggestion:

> do something


Fair enough. Here are a few:
•GM Watch didn't work
•Ticketing doesn't work efficiently or effectively
•Legalized Third-Party Programs (e.g. GameGuard) No, just no
•Bringing it to the forums can be tedious and risk flagging or trolling or unjustified banning if it gets too heated
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#19 Xellie

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 07:43 AM

That is true but some of the stuff we've taken to tickets are like night and day as to how obvious it is... and yeah =/

 

 


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#20 ChakriGuard

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 07:44 AM

 

 

tl;dr

 

  • Community is filled with toxicity and ban evasion that the CMs and Mods are selectively ignoring.

 

 

Uhh ... huh? What?  :p_devil:  :p_angel:


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#21 Hideasu

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 08:00 AM

personal vendettas aside, she got a valid point , the server has done to -_- ... we all know that we have a huge groups of idiots making this game crappy , when you have ppl who actually stay 2 hours past woe just to -_- talk on Ro , Fb and other forums you know that the game has gone tits up . 


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#22 CeruleanElegy

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 08:04 AM

I'm sorry to hear that the OP is being harassed in RL over a game. 

 

And while this is in no way an excuse on how the harassment is allegedly being handled, I have heard that there are only 3 people managing/running this game which suggests to me that they don't have the resources to properly handle these sort of things.

 

 

 

 


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#23 Anchors

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 08:40 AM

I'm sorry. You're right. :p_sad: To sum it all up iRO is in poor condition right now. But what can be done about it that hasn't already been tested and failed? :p_conf:

 

It was an honest reaction to bait (which ironically only supports OP's claims on cyber-bullying). Wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

As for what can be done to solve the problem, I have no idea how to go about solving this kind of problem, but it can be approached like any other.

 

First, summary of problem, based on AlmrOfAtlas' first post:

Spoiler

 

Second, really obvious first responses on what has to be done (general goal statements):

Spoiler

 

Third, some basic ideas on how to achieve those goals, because I want this to be a constructive post. Note that I can't even pretend to have any remotely complete solutions but I hope this serves as a kickoff point to the "do something" part, even if these specific ideas are never actually acted on:

Spoiler

 

Now, whether WP's iRO branch has the resources to actually do any of this is another thing... but if the company is performing so poorly that it can't properly support this game, close us down already instead of enabling crap like this to happen.

 

Totally tldr, but hopefully someone finds it useful and has ideas.


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#24 Kersya

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 08:46 AM

wth...getting harassed that much just for freaking game...ppl are seriously crazy and need to be beaten up or something...*grab a baseball bat*

 

Jokes aside, the cheats and all that -_- is not really new and either WP staff are seriously incompetent or understaffed and cant handle it or maybe both...makes me wonder where the cash they get from vip, boxes and all the crap from the cash shop goes...they must make enough to hire staff..right...well maybe not...lets just all start cheating, at least everyone would be on even ground...kinda XD

 

Im kinda sad i dont matter enough in RO to be harassed... sounds kinda fun. (yeah im crazy..i know)


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#25 kingarthur6687

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 09:04 AM

The toxic community, the cheating, and the GM incompetence

Nearly all multiplayer games have toxic communities (LoL is a fine mainstream example, place is a hellhole), as well as cheating to some extent. To complain about either of them is beating a dead horse at this point, people are friends and nothing will change that.

Staff and management incompetence on the other hand, that's actually something worth complaining about and honestly I think this is what most of us have a beef with here in iRO. People being friends and cheating wouldn't really matter if the staff could just manage and police the servers properly.

Instead we've got GMs that ban using dubious evidence (loloverlays) while ironically asking for impractical-but-clear evidence like replays, GMs that can't do simple mathematics (1.5m + 1.5m + 500k !== 7.5m, or whatever that hilarious screw up was), "studio" (kRO/Gravity) devs that give no damns about testing and debugging, GMs (and CMs to a certain degree) that are clueless in regards to game mechanics, WP as a whole being severely understaffed in spite of the money we perceive WP to be making, and the list goes on.

If iRO and WP (and by extension kRO/Gravity) as a whole were managed properly like any other respectable dev/publisher of an MMO game, most of the other problems would be easily addressed in short order.
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